Author Topic: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon Topic, Updated 10/1/14 with new rules (Read 124186 times)

SnowFire · « **Reply #275 on:** February 25, 2009, 04:10:24 AM »

Djinn: I'd assume that with VBL, you'd have 100 FP that would never restore... though it seems like that would waste Yulie's Force Boost. Why not stick Speed? on Raquel? You'll have 25 FP at the start of every battle and Raquel would be 65% speed = 154% (!!) speed on the first turn with an Intrude to spend every battle. Sure, you can theoretically chain 4 extra turns in one battle with VBL, but it'd be slow and you'd never get more than that (which would also make spending FP on Material more painful).

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #276 on:** February 25, 2009, 04:25:09 AM »

Well, with VBL, I was thinking of changing out Yulie for someone like Garnet.

And the whole point of my team was to try a non-speed-reliant team out. It's defense oriented.

Aika's there for battles that require some kind of speedy response. Garnet also gets revival earlier, though once I have Delta Shield, hopefully I won't need it.

-Djinn

dude789 · « **Reply #277 on:** February 25, 2009, 12:51:37 PM »

A couple of changes to my team.
Blue (4.0)
Relm (3.0)
Zozma (2.5)
FFT Monk with Firefly sealstone (1.0)
Rena (.5)
A little more healing and revival along with MP healing from the monk. Also Hamedo and firefly work pretty well together.

Taishyr · « **Reply #278 on:** February 25, 2009, 01:37:27 PM »

Kyogre, Maya, Cristo, Strago, Raja

Speed? Sealstone.

Question: Can the recipient of a Sealstone, if the sealstone is ST, change each floor?

Nephrite · « **Reply #279 on:** February 25, 2009, 05:23:26 PM »

Yes.

Magic Fanatic · « **Reply #280 on:** February 26, 2009, 09:32:40 AM »

Scratch my last post, I'm scrapping my last team.

New team:

Blue (4.0)
TimeLord (3.5)
Lilka (2.0)
Lucia (1.0)
FFT Priest (0.5)

Yeah, I may as well give this team a shot. The only thing it fears is the magically-immune... I think.

However, this team is pending as well - WA FP goes down to some number every battle. I can see the Violent Burst Stone having an effect in the first fight of a floor, then Lilka's royally screwed out of a lot of her spells if the FP decides to reset between fights. However, I can also see that Lilka can have 100 FP at all times, assuming that she never uses her force abilities... Or dies. What's the ruling there?

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #281 on:** February 26, 2009, 11:53:25 AM »

Quote from: Magic Fanatic on February 26, 2009, 09:32:40 AM

However, this team is pending as well - WA FP goes down to some number every battle. I can see the Violent Burst Stone having an effect in the first fight of a floor, then Lilka's royally screwed out of a lot of her spells if the FP decides to reset between fights. However, I can also see that Lilka can have 100 FP at all times, assuming that she never uses her force abilities... Or dies. What's the ruling there?

Indeed, I bugged Neph about this just today. He ruled that for system gauges that refresh every battle, (WA FP, SoA SP, for example) these gauges should be assumed as starting at full at the beginning of the floor and only decreases when the character actually spends the points on using an ability.

Still no ruling on whether a fullheal would restore the system-specific gauges, though I'd guess not (unfortunately).

-Djinn

074 · « **Reply #282 on:** February 26, 2009, 12:39:50 PM »

Fullheal? I say it would under the case of VBL, if only because it restores TL's Overdrive permission.

Unless I'm remembering wrong.

ThePiggyman · « **Reply #283 on:** February 26, 2009, 09:30:03 PM »

Alright, I got a question.

FF5 Chemist (3.5)
Worker 8 (2.0)
Sasarai (2.5)
FF5 Red Mage (2.0)
FF1 Monk (1.0)

My team's got Worker 8, and I'm thinking of putting a Firefly Rune on him. It says it bypasses status and elemental immunities. So, does this mean that he'll no longer be immune to magic, and be targettable by status? If this is the case, would it apply to both sides, meaning I would in fact be able to heal or revive (assuming ID status was applicable) Worker 8 through magical means as well?

The whole Faith based thing makes this seem a bit weird, seeing as having 0 Faith is something that can't normally be changed for Worker 8. What do you guys make of this?

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #284 on:** February 26, 2009, 11:00:35 PM »

Quote from: ThePiggyman on February 26, 2009, 09:30:03 PM

Alright, I got a question.
My team's got Worker 8, and I'm thinking of putting a Firefly Rune on him. It says it bypasses status and elemental immunities. So, does this mean that he'll no longer be immune to magic, and be targettable by status? If this is the case, would it apply to both sides, meaning I would in fact be able to heal or revive (assuming ID status was applicable) Worker 8 through magical means as well?

The whole Faith based thing makes this seem a bit weird, seeing as having 0 Faith is something that can't normally be changed for Worker 8. What do you guys make of this?

Well, since the Sealstone states that it bypasses immunity, and obviously leaves normal resistance alone (I mean, this is something you put on your tank, so obviously DEF and RES work normally), I personally would see it as forcing Worker 8 to have 1 Faith. This still means that he breaks most magic-reliant enemies, but he's vulnerable to any of that nasty 100% status. He's also not getting healed much with magic... though arguably he can be revived through magical means now, which is pretty useful.

That's how I'm looking at it until the official Neph call is made.

-Djinn

Talaysen · « **Reply #285 on:** February 26, 2009, 11:45:27 PM »

Technically speaking, 0 Faith is similar to "infinite MDef", in that it just reduces all magic damage to 0. In FFT, status also hits this MDef, so they would also be 0%. I mean, if you took someone from a game who just had say a million defense and nothing could do more than 0 damage to him, that's not physical immunity. ITD physicals work just fine. 0 Faith is similar to that.

On the other hand, the Innocent status is more like magic immunity. It just basically say "anything that hits MDef is nulled, regardless of MDef value". In FFT, this is basically every attack flagged as "magic", including recovery spells. So it's basically magic immunity.

So for Firefly, I'd probably just say Worker 8 has 0 Faith as normal, but no Innocent. I'd say that any magic attack that is ITD hits him just fine (and remember, that bypasses his innate Defense Up), as well as status that explicitly ignore MDef (or checks some other stat).

As for healing? I'd say if the healing doesn't hit MDef, W8 can get healed due to no Innocent, but if it hits MDef, he can't (since his MDef is infinite). On the other hand, you can also say that FFT MDef affects healing and W8 can't be healed because of that. It's a weird situation I can see going both ways, honestly.

That's what makes most sense to me, anyways.

Clear Tranquil · « **Reply #286 on:** February 28, 2009, 02:36:06 PM »

With this team Rikku, Maria, Peppita, Sharanda, Meru (Life), Nall - would it be a good idea or not to give Maria Speed for F1 instead and then swap that for Life on Meru on F2/later? Maria comes in strong already starting off with Scatter Beam + Berserk as well as the evil SO3 chaos inducing Aiming Device .. but as super said average speed reversed is ... average ... However I was under the impression that most people took ARPG speeds literally? So Maria = snail judging by movement rates in SO3. Or am I wrong and most people follow the ARPG speed as average standard instead? =D

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #287 on:** February 28, 2009, 10:46:39 PM »

Quote from: Clear Tranquil on February 28, 2009, 02:36:06 PM

With this team Rikku, Maria, Peppita, Sharanda, Meru (Life), Nall - would it be a good idea or not to give Maria Speed for F1 instead and then swap that for Life on Meru on F2/later? Maria comes in strong already starting off with Scatter Beam + Berserk as well as the evil SO3 chaos inducing Aiming Device .. but as super said average speed reversed is ... average ... However I was under the impression that most people took ARPG speeds literally? So Maria = snail judging by movement rates in SO3. Or am I wrong and most people follow the ARPG speed as average standard instead? =D

Well, I've been under the impression that ARPG characters were just generally taken as average. SRPG characters like Disgaea, too.
However, I just went through the DL Interps topic and from the 10 people who responded about ARPG speed, 5 said they use "movement/attack speed as the main indicator" and 5 said "average, but weighted/tie broken by move/attack speed."

The TotA and ToP characters are the most recent ARPG characters to be ranked, I believe, and their rankings seem to align with the "average speed" interp.

That's all the information I have on how 'most people' view anything.

-Djinn

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #288 on:** February 28, 2009, 10:53:06 PM »

Quote

The TotA and ToP characters are the most recent ARPG characters to be ranked, I believe, and their rankings seem to align with the "average speed" interp.

No, the effects of people who take speed as not average are clearly reflected in TotA. Luke has more damage and more durability than Guy, but Guy got ranked higher... the only possible reason for this is because he's faster.

074 · « **Reply #289 on:** March 01, 2009, 02:02:38 PM »

Therefore, aside from the argument of Maria's sidestep-shot->(insert long-range move here) combo, she's slow.

Not sure what to think of the variation offered by that, though--or to factor it in at all. Probably doubtful (and her best damage prior to floor 7-8 or so is chained Scatterbeam, prior to Gravity Bullet and Energy Burst).

That aside, I've got to puzzle over sealstone options when I get the time to. There's two in particular I can think of that would apply to my team, but...hm.

Clear Tranquil · « **Reply #290 on:** March 02, 2009, 12:14:42 PM »

Maria is all about rapid chaining Scatter Beam for pure raw HP damage of death in game, Gravity Bullet is too slow by comparison and Energy Burst is more an MP killer. GB/EB might be better in a turn based setting though. Hmmm.

Anyway thanks guys, especially Djinn for taking that work upon yourself

Neph - Speed works per first round per fight yes? Or is it just once per floor >_>

Nephrite · « **Reply #291 on:** March 04, 2009, 05:22:39 PM »

First round of any given fight.

Clear Tranquil · « **Reply #292 on:** March 05, 2009, 09:26:11 PM »

Thanks Neph~

Then I would like my team to start -

Rikku,
Maria (Speed),
Peppita,
Sharanda (with items),
Meru,
Nall

Nephrite · « **Reply #293 on:** April 08, 2009, 06:27:27 PM »

Since I suppose I didn't make it very clear before: You may now submit new teams for the Dungeon.

superaielman · « **Reply #294 on:** April 08, 2009, 06:48:23 PM »

Neph: Where's the list of people who already have teams in? I can't find it.

ThePiggyman · « **Reply #295 on:** April 08, 2009, 10:11:01 PM »

FF5 Chemist (3.5)
Worker 8 (2.0)
Sasarai (2.5)
FF5 Red Mage (2.0)
FF1 Monk (1.0)

Re-posting.
And I ask again, what would be the consequences of attaching a Firefly Rune to Worker 8?

Nephrite · « **Reply #296 on:** April 09, 2009, 12:40:43 AM »

Quote from: superaielman on April 08, 2009, 06:48:23 PM

Neph: Where's the list of people who already have teams in? I can't find it.

It doesn't exist yet! I'll go back and check.

1: Snowfire | Jessica, Purim, Lyn (Firefly) Garnet, Rena
2. Djinn | Cloud, Raquel, Yulie, Aika - Violent Burst Law
3. dude789 | Blue, Relm, Zozma, FFT Monk (Firefly), Rena
4. Taishyr | Kyogre, Maya, Cristo, Strago, Raja - Speed?
5. Magic Fanatic | Blue, Timelord, Lilka, Lucia, FFT Priest
6. Piggyman | FF5 Chemist, Worker 8, Sasarai, FF5 Red Mage, FF1 Monk

And to Piggyman: Worker 8 can be hit with anything, it just does 1 damage. Status spells would probably not have any chance to hit him due to the way FFT works, however. (I reworded the sealstone so it just bypasses immunity and does 1 damage no matter what.)

Talaysen · « **Reply #297 on:** April 09, 2009, 02:40:42 AM »

Hey, I had a team created awhile ago where did that go?

ThePiggyman · « **Reply #298 on:** April 09, 2009, 03:23:19 AM »

So still a near-flawless status immunity. Guess I'll have to try and avoid Tir. ;p
Alright, I'll take a Firefly on Worker 8, then.

Clear Tranquil · « **Reply #299 on:** April 09, 2009, 11:18:22 AM »

*spins Neph upside down*~

(I think he's just putting six to a list for now Tal. Maybe.)

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Author Topic: New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon Topic, Updated 10/1/14 with new rules (Read 124186 times)

Taishyr