New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon Topic, Updated 10/1/14 with new rules

[ThePiggyman]

Quick friendly warning: Agi. Up is bugged. In-game (at least for SNES, don't remember if it's the same for GBA), it does nothing.

Mmm. Still, interesting design there, and I love the Fogel hype.

EDIT: Replaced Mint with Tear. Chemist is my only revival early on.

Fogel (3.0)
FF5 Chemist (3.5)
Cray w/ Speed? (1.0)
Sasarai (2.5)
Tear (1.0)

[Taishyr]

This might be useful for some people. It's got my team designs excised from it, but it's what I've started using.

[Bardiche]

Let's try this again. (inb4 wording change)

Aeris Gainsborough (1.0) w/ Life Sealstone
Sasarai (2.5)
Crowley (2.0)
Rudy (2.0)
Ted (3.5)

------>

Basically, Aeris spams Cure on everyone for 50% healing. The Life stone says anything is 50% healing regardless of initial strength, and since Cure doesn't really care about MP a lot I have infinite 50% healing from Aeris. Crowley and Sasarai can assist as needed.

The basic strategy? Spam MT nukes like hell hath no. Rudy covers for Ted against physicals. Cry and weep if something blocks magic.

[Nephrite]

Just so you understand -- the Life stone means whatever the final healing result is, it is cut by 50%. So if you have a 30% heal, it is now 15%. If you have a 100% heal, it is 50%. If you have a 150% heal, it is also 50%. Does that make more sense?

[Bardiche]

;____; I knew it was too good to be true. Another scrap.

[Clear Tranquil]

Team Change!-Lenneth (3.5), Maria (2.0), Peppita (1.5), Sharanda w/th items (2.0), Meru (0.5), Nall (1.0)

Seal Stone-Speed (Maria)

I forgot does Lenneth start with healing/revival? I think she does but I need to be sure =-) I also forgot for sure how much Nall w/o taking up a party member slot is, I can still afford it though I think.

[dude789]

You can, you even have .5 left.

[Taishyr]

Actually, CT, you have 1.0 left; Nall's only 0.5. This being said, you are maxed out slot-wise (five chars + Nall), so. Your call, here.

[SnowFire]

If I recall correctly, Nall is 0.5 if he takes a slot, and 1.0 if he doesn't take a slot (allowing for 5 chars + Nall).  So CT only has 0.5 left (or can drop a character and get the discounted Nall).

Does Speed? matter for Maria?  She's got a slow running speed but she's got ranged attacks so it's not really relevant.  I usually peg her at average speed, myself, but maybe most people hold the slow run against her.

[Taishyr]

Oh, is that so? Hm, then I'd need to upgrade my spreadsheet, since I didn't notice that one.

And... I'd probably hold her slow movement speed against her for the first turn, which is where it's relevant; after that, no. Granted, that makes Speed? perfect for her, but hey.

[Yoshiken]

If I recall correctly, Nall is 0.5 if he takes a slot, and 1.0 if he doesn't take a slot (allowing for 5 chars + Nall).

In which case, I'm afraid Piggy's gonna need to take another look at that team. ;p

[DjinnAndTonic]

And... I'd probably hold her slow movement speed against her for the first turn, which is where it's relevant; after that, no. Granted, that makes Speed? perfect for her, but hey.

That doesn't make much sense to me...

Since she's ranged character, wouldn't her range allow her a quick first turn where she gets the jump on her opponent before they can move into melee range? On turn 2, I'd peg her as incredibly slow due to not having a range advantage anymore and using her movement speed as analagous to turn speed.

She'd probably have an even slower turn 2 to me if she's up against a melee attacker with counters since she would want to move out of counter range before shooting again.

Against another ranged character, she's just slow, though.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

It wouldn't, really, because she needs to run into the range where she can attack. She has range, but it's hardly infinite and hardly mitigates the distance she needs to cover entirely. Since she doesn't have to move -more- after she gets into the range she needs (and being closer than that range still means a faster attack, since she's not moving away EVERY SINGLE TURN TO GET INTO AN EXACT RANGE because that would be Meeplina Penthouse Edition-level gameplay design for SO3 - not that other games don't do that), then she's not that slow to fire things off once she gets into the range.

And you now have scratched why ARPG speed discussions are best dealt with acid and whiskey.

[DjinnAndTonic]

It wouldn't, really, because she needs to run into the range where she can attack. She has range, but it's hardly infinite and hardly mitigates the distance she needs to cover entirely. Since she doesn't have to move -more- after she gets into the range she needs (and being closer than that range still means a faster attack, since she's not moving away EVERY SINGLE TURN TO GET INTO AN EXACT RANGE because that would be Meeplina Penthouse Edition-level gameplay design for SO3 - not that other games don't do that), then she's not that slow to fire things off once she gets into the range.

And you now have scratched why ARPG speed discussions are best dealt with acid and whiskey.

To avoid melee counters, she -would- be moving every single turn.

I hadn't realized her range wasn't infinite (or close enough). I didn't use Maria much in SO3, I thought she pretty much started most battles in range. Like Natalia.

And again, I'm mostly using movement speed as analogous to turn speed, but for the first turn, I was using her range as initiative (only against non-ranged opponents, of course). For the most part, she's just slow to me.

[Taishyr]

If she has to deal with melee counters, then yes, she's probably slower than average. However, see Snow for why I see Speed? getting her into range faster.

[Bardiche]

Wouldn't it just be easier to have Speed? give a first turn initiative?

[ThePiggyman]

If I recall correctly, Nall is 0.5 if he takes a slot, and 1.0 if he doesn't take a slot (allowing for 5 chars + Nall).

In which case, I'm afraid Piggy's gonna need to take another look at that team. ;p

I'll wait for the call from Neph on this one. ;p

[Nephrite]

Since the Wiki is down I can't confirm it but I am 90% sure I changed Nall to be a 1.0 that didn't take a party slot. He USED TO BE a .5 that did.

As for the Speed stone, it would certainly be easier to give the person with it initiative, but that'd be a little bit boring.

[Cmdr_King]

The wiki works fine from what I can see.  It kicks out error messages on the headers but still loads afterwards (I'm guessing this is due to being tied to the old boards, they kick out a similar message).

Anyway, Nall seems to be a .5 capsule on the full list still.

[Talaysen]

Maria doesn't have to move far, and with her range, she should be able to shoot the enemies before any other PC can run up to them to attack (and this has the added benefit of the enemies not even being close enough to attack HER).  Can't really see that being kneejerked as below average speed on turn one...

Now to go find that acid and whiskey.  Not that whiskey is too dissimilar from acid.

[Nephrite]

Well, for now, go with Nall as 1.0 that doesn't take a party slot.

[074]

Maria doesn't have to move far, and with her range, she should be able to shoot the enemies before any other PC can run up to them to attack (and this has the added benefit of the enemies not even being close enough to attack HER).  Can't really see that being kneejerked as below average speed on turn one...

Maria's...odd.  Some moves (Scatter Beam, Magnetic Field, anything with kicks, Laser Blast, Gravity Bullet) would have to be done up close.  In THAT case, her speed blows.  Long-range moves, you could kneejerk to be faster, perhaps.

...but that is admittedly headache-inducing.

[ThePiggyman]

Changed my team, editted my post at the top of the page.

Took out Rena and Nall for Mint.

[Clear Tranquil]

Well it's not like Maria has to really worry about Scatter Beam's range/inaccuracy issues until later floors where peeps need max fire power, even a ranged Scatter Beam chain should kill most things dead early on especially buffed by Peppita/Lenneth. SB's hit problems mainly come from facing chibi sized enemies besides. Since SB doesn't actually take Maria into direct S/R when set to long slots unlike Crescent Locus/Triple Kick/etc it can probably be considered a multi ranged move.

Saying that it might be useful to some people to have a list of what moves are generally considered LR/SR and what not -

Maria-

Short range -Crescent Locus, Gravity Bullet, Magnetic Field, Laser Blast, Triple Kick, Charge, Aerial
Long range-Energy Burst, Radiation Bots, Aiming Device
Multi-Scatter Beam
Other-Symbology

Peppita-

Short range-Charge, Aerial, Kaboom, Faerie Friend, Dream Hammer, counters
Long range- Magic Hook, Instanto Blast, Frozen Daggers
Multi-Dances~

Personally I like to use Power Dance in chains with Faerie Friend/Dream Hammer for powerful offensive cancel combos (you can cancel chain early yet still retain the ATK boost) Since those moves don't come until late though she's probably just going to want to hang back at range and do full dances before cancelling into the next dance for the most part of the dungeon I think. Your mileage may vary ^_^

Yummy supports! *flees*

What all that says about Speed I don't know but I was planning to give Meru Life on F2 anyway, maybe.

With that 0.5 left over I'm waiting to see if Neph will allow Maria or Peppita Common Support Symbols (Healing), I think Maria might be best since Pep picks up healing of her own later on anyway~

(of course this is all assuming if I even get *past* F1 >_>*

[DjinnAndTonic]

Saying that it might be useful to some people to have a list of what moves are generally considered LR/SR and what not -

Maria-

Short range -Crescent Locus, Gravity Bullet, Magnetic Field, Laser Blast, Triple Kick, Charge, Aerial
Long range-Energy Burst, Radiation Bots, Aiming Device
Multi-Scatter Beam
Other-Symbology

Peppita-

Short range-Charge, Aerial, Kaboom, Faerie Friend, Dream Hammer, counters
Long range- Magic Hook, Instanto Blast, Frozen Daggers
Multi-Dances~

Could you do this for Nel and Adray too?