New Nyarlathotep's Dungeon Topic, Updated 10/1/14 with new rules

[DjinnAndTonic]

Glen: Lilka + VBL is pretty similar to Aika + VBL in that you have to be careful that she's losing one of her really useful aspects of being 'resourceless'. Only it's a much bigger deal for Lilka as she uses way more FP on far more versatile skills than Aika.

Aika's moves are limited to damage, healing, and Delta Shield. Lilka's generally all over the place with versatility, and there's a few moves (like Reflect, perhaps?) that are really useful, but destroy her resources. It just strikes me as a dangerous combo, though an interesting one since VBL teams tend to be about blitzing anyway.

[Glen Veil]

Eh, the team is more about the blitz then anything, Violent burst puts Lilka at 100 FP, and the only reason she would ever use it is if she needed to mystic a life orb or holy grail for full party heal or death protection.  It does have the plus side of letting Lilka actually use her Hi magic which she gets around floor three when she gets it.  Most of her Hi-Spells don't have much of a practical use in the dungeon simply because she can't use them without having to waste turns building FP.  Being able to use spells like Slowdown as early as floor 3 has some pretty decent applications.

More of a "what if" team then anything, I basically want to see if I can get to the point where Tidus can initiative Haste Raquel who then proceeds to activate Rapid attack off 130% speed to end up at something like 200% speed, the thought of it happening was amusing enough to put this team together, and then I kind of just extended it to a team that just messes with the enemies speed while Raquel kills stuff >.>.

*Hypes three different game slow spells stacking <.<*

[DjinnAndTonic]

Personally, I just like the idea of Tidus Overdrive OPF plus 4 shots of Raquel Intrude damage off of Tidus-hasted speed. Not really sure what Arnaud's doing, though. And you heard my thoughts on Lilka, though she's not -bad- for what you're going for. Meru's also a good pick for the price here, as she'll get to use Dragoon form on command until she runs out of meters (she would get 5 or so full meters?). But she's basically just a healer until she gets BSD. Decently fast though? And status-immune in a pinch. You could drop her though if you need someone a half-point more expensive to replace Arnaud or Lilka?

[Glen Veil]

Arnaud is mostly there for slow and Rampage drive, lack of games and whatnot kind of limited me on who I could pick for healing, Lilka was my best choice for a healer so I went with Arnaud for the magic damage to take care of rampage since I'm essentially running with 1 healer/reviver for most the dungeon.

It's more of a for fun team, I would not be surprised to see it fail horribly.  I would probably be just as well off picking another healer with some kind of magic damage but I can't really think of one from a game I've played for that point cost -.-.

[DjinnAndTonic]

If you can swing a Lufia2 character, that's a really good healing option right there, not to mention you can take advantage of VBL on their IP moves.

I'd recommend Selan, who can do offense and healing pretty well, and is about as durable as Lilka/Arnaud. Tia might work if Selan's too expensive, but make sure you pick someone else to help out that durability...

[Clear Tranquil]

I wouldn't say that ... Blue Sea Dragon is the most powerful attack in the game until DDD and Haschel w/th Destroyer Mace (yes even stronger than 160% Psyche Bomb X though I don't know about turbo fire Psyche Bomb X) so even 50% of that is pretty damn scary off Meru's MAG and cheap for the MP cost (Freezing Ring) Plus there is the MP variant in Diamond Dust though that's more expensive. Of course I'm going by in game here where even half a Blue Sea Dragon is quite brutal on LoD's spectacular enemy magic defence >_> Also where Meru doesn't have the MP issues she has in the dungeon.

I've have loved to use Meru myself ... just didn't cut it for F1 ... not considering all the other stuff I need and the cost of keeping in the core of my team (Maria + Peppita duo) It would be nice to see others using her with their teams and ideas =-)

Tai - Nice to see someone give Adray a whirl~

[superaielman]

I'd recommend Selan, who can do offense and healing pretty well, and is about as durable as Lilka/Arnaud. Tia might work if Selan's too expensive, but make sure you pick someone else to help out that durability...

Selan's got durability issues as well and her healing's not good until Champion.

[Taishyr]

CT: Yeah. Was looking for someone who got revival (even if lateish), healing and competent damage; he fit the bill nicely.

Original draft of the team had Meru because I mixed up who got Items and who got the Dragoon Spirit to start, though I could rely on Meru as an item spammer off that speed. Sadly, not so applicable and I need a second reviver early, so Priest gets a slot on my team again.

[Taishyr]

Also, version 1.1, updated with new Sealstones and newer choices.

[Dhyerwolf]

I wouldn't say that ... Blue Sea Dragon is the most powerful attack in the game until DDD and Haschel w/th Destroyer Mace (yes even stronger than 160% Psyche Bomb X though I don't know about turbo fire Psyche Bomb X) so even 50% of that is pretty damn scary off Meru's MAG and cheap for the MP cost (Freezing Ring) Plus there is the MP variant in Diamond Dust though that's more expensive. Of course I'm going by in game here where even half a Blue Sea Dragon is quite brutal on LoD's spectacular enemy magic defence >_> Also where Meru doesn't have the MP issues she has in the dungeon.

I've have loved to use Meru myself ... just didn't cut it for F1 ... not considering all the other stuff I need and the cost of keeping in the core of my team (Maria + Peppita duo) It would be nice to see others using her with their teams and ideas =-)

Tai - Nice to see someone give Adray a whirl~

Blue Sea Dragon at the very least is less powerful than Miranda's final, given the same mult and better magic.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Just looking at the reading of the new Firefly and wondering if it would null Arc's Invincible? Considering how limited the move is and that it's Arc's big trick (that he doesn't get for a few floors), I was just curious.

[Nephrite]

It would, yes. Multitarget would make it reduce all damage by 50%.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Just looking at the reading of the new Firefly and wondering if it would null Arc's Invincible? Considering how limited the move is and that it's Arc's big trick (that he doesn't get for a few floors), I was just curious.

Actually, Arc's money move (both in-game and in-dungeon, honestly <_<) is Weak Enemy. Considering he gets Invincible at like endgame and it only affects himself and he doesn't have the resources to spam it... yeah. Dungeon-wise, Arc works mostly as someone who dabbles in a bit of everything (passable GT healing, passable GT magic, acceptable physicals) while having a very good debuff.

[ThePiggyman]

It would, yes. Multitarget would make it reduce all damage by 50%.

Quick question concerning Arc, because I'm thinking of using him. With the MT sealstone, would Weak Enemy's debuff effect be decreased to 32.5%, or would it remain at 65%, and the hit rate decreased to 50%? Or both?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Uh, I'd say the former. I'm not sure it's a good idea, though, given it already has AoE...

[ThePiggyman]

Uh, I'd say the former. I'm not sure it's a good idea, though, given it already has AoE...

Oh, does it? I thought most of Arc's attacks were ST.

[Taishyr]

Stat downs take an effect halving, status takes an accuracy halving. There's some borderline stuff but.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Uh, I'd say the former. I'm not sure it's a good idea, though, given it already has AoE...

Oh, does it? I thought most of Arc's attacks were ST.

AtL2 spells often are GT-heavy.

[Clear Tranquil]

Blue Sea Dragon at the very least is less powerful than Miranda's final, given the same mult and better magic.

It isn't actually.

The listed modifiers for Sharanda are wrong (like 175% for Red Eye Dart lol no) LoD board has already done extensive testing on this and it was something I noticed myself when Meru was doing more damage to a ST than Miranda was. I've tested it extensively since for both girls under various conditions (Special, Power Up, Power Down, PU + PD, etc) and Meru definitely has a higher mult than Miranda does. I believe Miranda's is actually 75% MT.

So yeah despite having a lower magic stat Meru does wind up more damaging than Sharanda.

Before I discovered this I used to play the game using the Power Up + Down combo w/th White Silver Dragoon because I too believed she had the most powerful dragon summon. That's all changed now.

On the other hand WSD still has MT worth and that's more important in the dungeon

Edit - Aha found it! Ok here is a Damage Thingies I did for the LoD board -

Testing done vs Divine Dragon Spirit w/th Miranda and Meru's MATK both at 213

Miranda*

P Bomb X Base Damage -2291
W Silver Dragon Base Damage - 1899
W Silver Dragon w/th Power Up - 2847
W Silver Dragon w/th Power Down - 2847
W Silver Dragon Special w/th Power Up + Down - 5697

*Meru

P Bomb X Base Damage - 2324
Blue Sea Dragon Base Damage - 3040
Blue Sea Dragon w/th Power Up - 4560
Blue Sea Dragon w/th Power Down - 4560
Blue Sea Dragon Special w/th Power Up + Down - 9120

Also Miranda does not score 9999 vs Zackwell o_o I was kind of disappointed~

Meru's P Bomb X is slightly higher because I got a better % from tapping the button during the attack item power up phase >_> Also Meru does higher damage vs Zackwell despite Miranda hitting weakness. Not 9999 but yeah.

[SnowFire]

Hmm...  time to have a go at the fabled "ignore magic" team which has been attempted several times, but I seem to recall generally failing.  Chris is too expensive and gets her Silent Lake too late, and checking, Bartz's Void doesn't work on all bosses, so that's out....  that leaves Aika.

Orlandu (3.5)
FFT Chemist (3)
Aika (2)
Gilder (2)
Onix (.5, Firefly)

Aika stops teh magickz, Gilder stopz the status, Onix stops the beatz while Orlandu dropz 'em.  Chemist has no spare z's and mopes.

This team is screwwwwwwwwed if Chemist dies, admittedly, which is a problem.  Luckily, with both Gilder & FFT status resistance, status shouldn't be too big a deal, and MT physical OHKOs should hopefully be rare, with Auto-Potion covering less than OHKO physical damage.  A bigger problem is that if Onix does die, he'll be back in the next battle with crap HP, meaning Aika will have to Sacrulen quickly rather than Delta Shield or else concede another quick Onix wipe.

Might modify this later (suggestions welcome), but should be good for now.  Hopes are not terribly high, but seems like it might be fun.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I don't think having Gilder and Aika in the same thing is a horribly awesome idea, given how the majority of status you face in the dungeon is magical to begin with. And he sounds underwhelming besides Aura of Denial, which means that you're basically throwing two points away.

[superaielman]

That team has zero direct offense besides for Cid, who is ST. You're not going to get far there.

[SnowFire]

Jo'ou: Well, the logic behind Gilder...  IIRC, people were failing Aika teams on Floor 3 a lot is my recollection due to SP concerns over whether she could use Delta Shield.  Gilder guarantees that she can spam Delta Shield from Floor 3 on....  actually maybe even Floor 2 depending on Moonberries.  Will have to look it up.  Moreover, shared SP means that they can both actually get to use their damage moves at a relevant pace in fights where blitzing is necessary.  I'm surprised more teams don't pair them, actually.  If I did replace Gilder, I'd want someone who can ideally status cure Chemist in emergencies (Gilder has Curia) and either has great Physical Defense (Gilder has this) or draining (Orlandu) to survive MT physicals.  Not sure I see any good replacements at the 2.0 level - the closest is Kyra, I think?

super: Do agree that the offense level is low, but the hope is that defensively the team holds out - against MT physical damage (the team's biggest problem), Onix still has awesome defense (especially post-Harden), Orlandu can drain, Chemist has Auto-Potion, and that leaves Aika & Gilder to chug Chemist's tossed potions.  Gilder can defend if Aura of Denial isn't needed and Aika can heal if Delta Shield isn't necessary.  Against ST physical damage, hardened Onix chugging potions.  Magic damage eats Delta Shield.  Stallers & buffers...  well, Gunslinger's nearly a OHKO and hits a huge area that's basically MT, and Orlandu breaks the equipment of PC stallers. 

Hmm.  Worth working things out somewhat, though.  As a random example...  take the Floor 4 boss fight, Lufia 2 Erim / Lucia (S3) / Barbariccia (FF4 DS) / Rydia.  Rydia & Mage Lucia are getting totally walled, and a Hardened Onix easily shrugs off Barb & Whip Lucia's attacks.  Dark Fry is somewhat vexing due to being physical, but Erim just gets blitzed out by Gilder / Orlandu.  Flip side, Erim does need to die in two turns, since Dark Fry probably 2HKOs Aika and Chemist ideally is only flipping potions to Onix.  And if Onix came into the match Phoenix Downed with 8 HP, there'd be problems.  Hrmm.

I did a theme team my first time, I was trying to "win" my second time, figured I'd go back to style for the third.  That said, effectiveness is good, and I'm not getting in again for a looong while, so plenty of time to think about options, since the team really does want Onix to never die and that seems the main way it can lose.  My kingdom for a Life2 spell...

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Jo'ou: Well, the logic behind Gilder...  IIRC, people were failing Aika teams on Floor 3 a lot is my recollection due to SP concerns over whether she could use Delta Shield.

Well. In all honesty? If a team's only argument to beat floor 3 in a team with Aika heavily relied on Delta Shield, I don't think the issue lies within Aika, but within the team. I remember most Aika teams to be lacking in synergy as well, which wouldn't have helped matters. Tonfa managed to do a very effective team involving Aika, and that one went all the way to floor 8, though, but his gameplan was a fair deal more elaborate than "lol immuen majek" - which is the main concern to look at. Mostly, from a glance, Gilder exacerbates the team's lacking offense and doesn't mitigate the problems that stem from this any better than Aika does support-wise, which means he hampers the team long-term - especially given how your team only has -one dedicated healer with easy access-, whose healing will plummet in restoration by floor 5, and he's entirely ST to boot. A support-heavy team can't live with that little healing and revival, it gets strung by the very stalling fights it wanted to excel at. Gilder+Aika might be an interesting idea, but I think it needs stronger allies to work there, and the way the dungeon works doesn't always encourage pairing people from the same game together due to concerns that didn't exist in their home games.

You might be looking at this from the wrong angle, methinks, especially considering how many big-time threats in those early problem floors don't lie specifically on status - for an instance, Gilder with Aura of Denial wouldn't help against the first FFT fight on the MT floor, nor would he be any good against the CT mage fight (one of their big deals is the fact that MT Haste+Magus+Lucca 2HKO offense = gg if you let -that- going. Orlandu on your team specifically would handle that far better, but this has no bearing on Aika+Gilder synergy), and I'm figuring that SoA characters are just impressively useless on the ST floor (Delta Shield losing its MT effect? Oh dear god). Gimmicks are more of a helpful little boost than something that you should revolve your party around, unless you have a really killer setup for that.

[Nephrite]

I want to chime in here and perhaps clarify the new Firefly stone since your team seems to be riding on part of a clause I didn't realize I needed to stipulate:

Firefly: One member of your team becomes the target of all Single target attacks. This effect will override any elemental or status protection or resistance (Reflect, etc. also do not work). The target of this effect may not have damage to them reduced in any way; in addition, revival effects take effect on the character with this sealstone after the current fight is completed. This effect may not be used on Worker 8 or Jane.

So, as a reminder: Delta Shield would provide magic immunity to everyone on your team except Onix. In addition, Harden wouldn't do anything. I will re-word this to make it more clear and clarify that immunity effects also don't work.

My apologies.