Author Topic: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas  (Read 2736 times)

Cmdr_King

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Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« on: April 04, 2011, 12:15:38 AM »
Godlike

Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs  Shinobu Fujiwara (Super Robot Taisen Series)
Xorn (Grandia III) vs Zack Fair (Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
Luca Blight (Suikoden II) vs Holly (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road)

Heavy

Edge Eblan (Final Fantasy IV) vs Victini (Pokémon)
Lady Harken (Wild ARMs) vs Aqua (Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep)
Golem (Pokémon) vs Strawman (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road)
Lyndis (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Razeluxe Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)

Middle

Tohru Adachi (Persona 4) vs Eruca (Radiant Historia)
Smeargle (Pokémon) vs Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII)
Karsh (Chrono Cross) vs Hero (Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride)
Laharl (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) vs Ledah (Riviera: The Promised Land)

Light

Butterfree (Pokémon) vs Levatte (Eternal Poison)
Mullen (Grandia) vs Judith (Tales of Vesperia)
Laguna Loire (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Larsa Ferrinas Solidor (Final Fantasy XII)
Yukari Tekaba (Persona 3) vs Nemne (Suikoden Tierkreis)

Closes in around one week.
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Nephrite

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2011, 12:20:52 AM »
Godlike

Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs Shinobu Fujiwara (Super Robot Taisen Series) - Uh... Oh. Shinobu goes first. He wins.
Xorn (Grandia III) vs Zack Fair (Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
Luca Blight (Suikoden II) vs Holly (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road) - Uhhh............ I'll get back to this one.

Heavy

Edge Eblan (Final Fantasy IV) vs Victini (Pokémon)
Lady Harken (Wild ARMs) vs Aqua (Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep)
Golem (Pokémon) vs Strawman (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road) - Strawman buffs his evade then slowly whittles Golem down?
Lyndis (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Razeluxe Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)

Middle

Tohru Adachi (Persona 4) vs Eruca (Radiant Historia) - Divine Light spam.
Smeargle (Pokémon) vs Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII)
Karsh (Chrono Cross) vs Hero (Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride) - Isn't Karsh.
Laharl (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) vs Ledah (Riviera: The Promised Land)

Light

Butterfree (Pokémon) vs Levatte (Eternal Poison)
Mullen (Grandia) vs Judith (Tales of Vesperia)
Laguna Loire (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Larsa Ferrinas Solidor (Final Fantasy XII) - Oh good lord, can Larsa survive a Laguna limit? Hum.
Yukari Tekaba (Persona 3) vs Nemne (Suikoden Tierkreis)

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2011, 12:24:49 AM »
Karsh (Chrono Cross) vs Hero (Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride)- Faster and can heal.


Mullen (Grandia) vs Judith (Tales of Vesperia)- Kneejerking move block as enough.
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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2011, 12:43:54 AM »
Godlike

Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs  Shinobu Fujiwara (Super Robot Taisen Series) - Terra being below average speed here sinks any possible argument she has, since I'm pretty sure she can't outheal her way out of trouble.
Luca Blight (Suikoden II) vs Holly (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road) - Sure, I'll bite.

Heavy

Edge Eblan (Final Fantasy IV) vs Victini (Pokémon) - Abstain
Golem (Pokémon) vs Strawman (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road) - Immunes ID.  Confusion turns this into a slapfight but Golem's durability is just too much for Strawman's horrid damage, even with the random turnskip buying him time, I think.  Wait no Strawman had an accuracy debuff, right.

Middle

Tohru Adachi (Persona 4) vs Eruca (Radiant Historia) - No P4, but wouldn't Mudoon just get around Divine Light spam quite easily?

Light

Fails.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 07:18:15 AM by Random Consonant »

SnowFire

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2011, 12:50:07 AM »
Xorn (Grandia III) vs Zack Fair (Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII)
....yeah, anti-buff move that stops future buffs will do that.  Zack ideally wants to sit with Xorn at 76% HP and wait for Aeris to kick in (which would protect his buffs as well as him) then blitz, except other DMW stuff will do damage, so Zack can't chip (not that he normally complains about this).

Middle

Smeargle (Pokémon) vs Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII)
I would force Smeargle to only have Sketch since that's the only move he learns natively.  Meaning he has to waste turn 1 on Sketching Hope, and Hope can just outblitz (!) here.
Karsh (Chrono Cross) vs Hero (Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride)
I kneejerk Hero as a Low Heavy anyway, and he has healing, so yeah, Karsh is screwed.

Light

Laguna Loire (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Larsa Ferrinas Solidor (Final Fantasy XII) - Not on board Laguna limit antihype.  It's still way more damage than spamming attack, which is all I use for an FF8 average.  (I definitely remember Laguna getting robbed --at least to me- in one match off defense hype vs. "bad damage" in the normal DL.  Bad compared to other limits, sure.)

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2011, 01:00:05 AM »
Godlike

Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs  Shinobu Fujiwara (Super Robot Taisen Series)
Xorn (Grandia III) vs Zack Fair (Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII): Dispel and lots of speed/damage combo. I think.
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy): Physicals and holy elemental damage vs. Fou-lu is not the way to go.
Luca Blight (Suikoden II) vs Holly (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road): I think her effective damage output and speed wins this out. Still not sure what I think of her durability but the damage output should be good enough...

Heavy

Edge Eblan (Final Fantasy IV) vs Victini (Pokémon)
Lady Harken (Wild ARMs) vs Aqua (Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep): I assume ACF Harken beats Aqua, but I haven't played ACF. So I'll refrain from voting I suppose.
Golem (Pokémon) vs Strawman (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road): Instant Death? Evade buff? I don't know what to say here.
Lyndis (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Razeluxe Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy): LyndisDub -> Raze -> LyndisDub (Kills, Raze Revives) -> Raze -> LyndisDub -> Raze -> Lyndis (finishes). I... think Raze can pull that off, with Falling Leaves and a finisher if need be.

Middle

Tohru Adachi (Persona 4) vs Eruca (Radiant Historia): Muddon was 80%? What? I'm gonna need some backup on this one before voting for Adachi.
Smeargle (Pokémon) vs Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII)
Karsh (Chrono Cross) vs Hero (Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride): Healing, durability.
Laharl (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) vs Ledah (Riviera: The Promised Land)

Light

Butterfree (Pokémon) vs Levatte (Eternal Poison): I guess? Butterfree wasn't much outside the status right?
Mullen (Grandia) vs Judith (Tales of Vesperia): I don't recall Mullen having a decent form, though it's Grandia so I guess I could be mistaken.
Laguna Loire (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Larsa Ferrinas Solidor (Final Fantasy XII): THis one cracks me up. Limit.
Yukari Tekaba (Persona 3) vs Nemne (Suikoden Tierkreis)

Nephrite

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2011, 02:01:54 AM »
I'd probably let the status blockers get around Mudoon anyway. If it can't null it, she can just stave it off and nuke Adachi to hell and back.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2011, 04:21:19 AM »
Godlike

Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy): Feel like we've seen this one before. Anyway, yeah, all physical vs. Fou-Lu, some of it holy. Not good.
Luca Blight (Suikoden II) vs Holly (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road): Faster.

Heavy

Golem (Pokémon) vs Strawman (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road): RBY Golem makes this pretty easy I think.
Lyndis (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Razeluxe Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy): Oh man hype for some durability-doubling ability I find sketchy on legality anyway which I never even got in a game where I was actually somewhat compleitionist by my standards. I could probably be argued into allowing it but I'll certainly never vote for Raze in any match which is remotely close if I do.


EDIT: Also, Snowfire, I strongly disagree with forcing Smeargle to only have Sketch. That's like forcing Strago start without any blue magic (except what he actually starts with in-game) just because he needs to see other enemies use the abilities first. Smeargle is not Ditto, his ability to learn and remember different abilities is what makes him a good pokemon in-game (it certainly isn't the ability to Sketch things mid-battle, something he can only do once every ten levels!) and this should certainly translate to the DL.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 04:24:39 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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SnowFire

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2011, 05:08:40 AM »
Well, my voting rights on Smeargle are pretty shaky anyway since I didn't even finish Pearl, and certainly never got a Smeargle in it.  (And CK is apparently having even more Gen 1 Pokemon next week, alas for me).  That said, I asked chat beforehand if this was a reasonable interp, and was told yes (including by CK).

There's two issues here for me.  First, I'm not a huge fan of letting characters switch things up in a way that would be time-consuming or impossible in-game from fight to fight.  Switching between equipment that is all store-bought?  Sure, that's doable from battle to battle.  Letting...  uh...  someone like Serph twink his stats in a different way depending on what he needs in a fight, say so that he can precisely cause an opponent to miss a 2HKO by adding exactly enough durability?  No.  Pick one build and stand by it for a season.  FE8 promotions are borderline; I'm inclined to throw a cast that doesn't have many options a bone here and say let Marisa pick Assassin or Swordmaster, but probably hold them to their pick the rest of the season.  Now, Strago's Lores just pile up.  Smeargle needs to forget stuff, meaning you're backtracking to re-recall precise moves.  Plus it only grabs the last move, not the move you want, which sounds like a massive save / reload pain if your opponent refuses to use the move you really want to learn.  Getting the perfect set of 4 moves for a match thus sounds like total FAQ bait about knowing where the monsters to grab.  Some moves this presumably isn't possible at all if the fight is unique and already gone by.  For extra fun, have fun noodling out "priority" for things like knowing what status resistance blockers to use.  Is Smeargle's move-set secret?  Despite taking a longish time to rearrange, far more than "equip the Sword that adds Sleep?"  This is a headache.  Maybe if Smeargle had one set that was his agreed DL-set I could be convinced, but that is obviously impossible.  (On the bright side, I'm totally fine with letting Smeragle steal whatever their opponent's got via Sketch, of course.)

Secondly.  I'm to some extent okay with voting based on a consensus of how the character should be interpreted, demonstrated by where they're ranked.  Marona in Light?  Fine, that's Phantomless Marona.  Marona in Godlike?  Okay, Marona at least has Ash support, possibly more.  Smeargle with full, adjustable movesets from the entirety of Pokemon sounds like Gogo, which would be some shade of Heavy status-whore.  So I'm not inclined to give him that.

In short, Smeargle with full movechoice is a total headache and wouldn't be how I'd use Smeargle in-game if I even had played RBY (I'd probably have found a pack of 4 moves and stuck with 'em), so.

(Side note: I don't know Pokemon nearly well enough to begin to guess at what set would be good for Smeargle in the DL, but he's slow, and Hope has Veil, which halves status hit rates. Presumably if Hope is allowed to know Smeargle's set and he sees some kind of status blitz, he can do Shell->Veil followed by damage, so I'm not sure Smeragle wins anyway at first glance.)
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 05:11:32 AM by SnowFire »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2011, 05:22:50 AM »
Smeargle with just Sketch is a bad, bad Puny (needs a turn to copy his opponent's move, has hideously bad non-speed stats), while Smeargle with a real skillset is Middle (good one if he can tinker with it between fights, decent one if he can't)... so by your own arguments he should probably have skills.

I am totally, 100% cool with the idea that characters with skillsets that are hard to adjust in-game should be penalised in some way, possibly by locking their skillset. I have zero problem if you want to do this with Smeargle or any other pokemon (or Serph, or DQ8, or FE8, etc.). Note that the pokemon stat topics all list four moves as a recommended default set exactly for this purpose. In Smeargle's case, if you're interested, the suggested skillset is Spore (100% sleep), Hyper Beam, Belly Drum, and Screech (lets him set up big damage against the sleeping). This does make Smeargle fairly bad if sleep is blocked, granted, but pretty good against the sleep-vulnerable, which is certainly the majority of Middle. You're free to assemble another skillset if you think one is better overall (the stat topic lists a decent number of moves that could be useful), but I firmly maintain he should have -some- skillset, not just Sketch. I don't agree with CK, I think such an interp is unreasonable... it's not even possible to use a Sketch-only Smeargle in-game.

Quote
Side note: I don't know Pokemon nearly well enough to begin to guess at what set would be good for Smeargle in the DL, but he's slow

Smeragle is above average speed. All his -other- stats are garbage.

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Cmdr_King

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2011, 05:32:04 AM »
It's reasonable in much the same way assuming Alma doesn't get Ultima and can't change equipment is.  "Getting a good skillset on Smeargle is pure FAQ-bait and something that no one would ever do in a normal game".  Is silly, but there's a certain logic to it.
I probably should have added "but if you take that stand Smeargle basically auto-loses to everything"
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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2011, 05:47:23 AM »
Godlike
Xorn (Grandia III) vs Zack Fair (Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
Luca Blight (Suikoden II) vs Holly (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road)- Haha, she doesn't need more speed.

Heavy

Golem (Pokémon) vs Strawman (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road)
Lyndis (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Razeluxe Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)- AS Scaling likely makes this not particularly close at that.

Middle
Tohru Adachi (Persona 4) vs Eruca (Radiant Historia)- I can see Eruca having 33% ID resistance. And...I'll just gut check it being enough (2HKOs, better speed)

Light

Butterfree (Pokémon) vs Levatte (Eternal Poison)- Levatte can block both Sleep and Confusion. Also, Butterfree damage
Mullen (Grandia) vs Judith (Tales of Vesperia)- Can't Judith just block Moveblock?
Laguna Loire (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Larsa Ferrinas Solidor (Final Fantasy XII)
Yukari Tekaba (Persona 3) vs Nemne (Suikoden Tierkreis)- See, this match could be slightly more annoying since it could be Yukari versus heal locker with Regen, but the only move that remotely heal locks also does more self damage than the Regen!
...into the nightfall.

SnowFire

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2011, 06:01:35 AM »
I checked two different stat topics (RBY and D/P) for Smeargle stats / builds and didn't see one.  Think I did my due diligence on that.

Anyway, that moveset if we call that the set Smeargle DL skillset (which still seems kinda arbitrary, but fine)...  pretty all-or-nothing on the Sleep hype.  FF13 has Daze status, which is either Sleep or Stop or Stun or Paralysis or all of the above, since they're all secretly the same effect differently flavored.  Definitely inclined to kneejerk letting Daze resistance block Sleep, so he eats a stat penalty for equipping a bunch of 45% Sleep blockers, but then cruises to victory anyway.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2011, 07:00:22 AM »
Smeargle doesn't exist in RBY, he's GSC onwards (and hence can be found in the GSC stat topic for certain, others depends on how OCD Meeple felt like being more or less). On reflection, I agree that the fact that we tend to just tag Pokemon as "Pokemon" instead of their game of introduction doesn't help there.

I'm certainly not arguing that Smeargle may not lose anyway (note my lack or arguing on the match itself), I just think it's pretty ridiculous to take an interp which not only makes him something he can't be in-game but also makes him Puny.

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Cmdr_King

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2011, 07:13:20 AM »
Smeargle's a Gen 2 pokemon, which is some of the problem there >.>  That said, elf's set is definitely from Gen 3, forget if it's in the topic.  I know a very similar topic is in the redone Gen 4 topic (which isn't the one linked in the archive!  If tal/dhyer wanna fix that).

Probably my fault, I said most of the pokemon were gen 1, which is true, Smeargle's just an exception.

It's not really an arbitrary set, mind.  Smeargle's a Normal type, so he wants Normal moves for the STAB.  The stats are abysmal (.5 or so on both durabilities?  Half average or so on offensive stats?  yeah), so non-STAB moves are only good if you can guarantee a weakness.  Given the bad durability, a standard slugfest is a bad idea, so banking on Sleep hype is the way to go.  Pokemon sleep lasts 2-5 turns, so he has a limited time to kill the opponent.  Hyperbeam is the strongest non-suicidal normal move (150 base power, 225 after STAB), but you lose your next turn after using it.  Due to Smeargle stats, this is nowhere near fatal.  Belly Drum is the fastest way to boost your Attack stat (instant +6 modifier, or 3x base damage) and the downside doesn't matter as long as the opponent is still asleep.  If the opponent is more durable than average, then lowering their defense (you can't boost a stat more than +6, even if you could belly drum twice in a row) is the only way to go, and Screech is the fastest way to do that (-2 modifier.  I forget what this does precisely, I think 66% added damage?).

In summary, Sleep is the best stat to use, because it's debilitating, has a 100% accurate version (Spore), and Smeargle needs to debilitate the opponent.  Belly Drum and Screech are the most effective stat modifiers available as long as you aren't being attacked, and Smeargle's peak damage is with Hyperbeam (in Gen 2/3.  In Gen 4, Hyperbeam is a special attack, and while Smeargle's special is no worse than his attack, there's no +6 Special buff.  However!  There's a new move, Giga Impact, which is exactly the same as Hyperbeam except it's physical, ie identical to gen 1-3 Hyperbeam.  So gen 4 just replaces Hyperbeam with Giga Impact and is effectively identical in performance).  So yeah, for DL purposes where you're not guaranteed to hit a weakness, you can't set up for your teammates, can't bait-and-switch foes, and so forth, it's Smeargle's best set for a one on one battle and there's not... really anything else worth messing with, despite the option of EVERYTHING EVER.  Funny really.

Edit: trivia!  I dunno about the DL proper, but I always tag all pokemon as 'Pokémon' because I'm comfortable voting on them in whatever form is most current, whether they technically are catchable in that version or not, and don't want to discourage others who vote similarly.  Additionally, given all the remakes and so forth, a randomly selected pokemon has about a 75% chance of being "Pokémon Series" anyway.  'sides, having to write 'Pokémon Gold/Silver/Crystal' or similar next to everything would get tiresome and looks ugly >.>
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 07:21:42 AM by Cmdr_King »
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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2011, 11:36:02 AM »
It's reasonable in much the same way assuming Alma doesn't get Ultima and can't change equipment is.  "Getting a good skillset on Smeargle is pure FAQ-bait and something that no one would ever do in a normal game".  Is silly, but there's a certain logic to it.
I probably should have added "but if you take that stand Smeargle basically auto-loses to everything"

To be fair, Smeargle and Alma have different arguments.

Smeargle's skillset can be considered FAQbait, and has a max of 10 possible moves from levels 1 to 100, unless Sketch can be brought back with the Move Tutor or whatever his name is.
Alma, in comparison, has an equipment set to start that, despite being possible to change (after Lesalia), will never, EVER show up in another battle again.  Even Guest Algus and Guest Delita get my votes of being allowed to change equipment, despite being locked at Chapter 1 stuff for changing.  Also, as far as I understand, Alma does not start the final battle with Ultima - it is learned mid-battle - and this skill cannot be transferred into any other battle in-game.

One is unlikely to happen in-game, but possible, and can be transferred between fights without the use of hacking or any sort of cheat codes.  The other becomes either impossible to do in the game itself, or when there IS an opening, it is far too late for it to actually effect anything outside of pretty-looking numbers in the menu.

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2011, 12:16:04 PM »
Quote
Lyndis (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Razeluxe Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy): Oh man hype for some durability-doubling ability I find sketchy on legality anyway which I never even got in a game where I was actually somewhat compleitionist by my standards. I could probably be argued into allowing it but I'll certainly never vote for Raze in any match which is remotely close if I do.

I still don't get this. If a boss had this skill you would allow it in a heartbeat (and I'm sure over a dozen do in the DL, 'legal formchain' and all that jazz). Why is it that when a PC gets this skill (which is indisputably legal for Raze to *have* under any definition, as it is neither difficult to get nor aftergame nor overlevelled) all of a sudden it isn't allowed?

On a side note, Strawman does have magic damage from his random action skill. It's probably his best bet against a physical durability monster like Golem. Obviously this doesn't matter if you see ID doing the legwork.

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2011, 02:39:45 PM »
Quote
Smeargle's skillset can be considered FAQbait, and has a max of 10 possible moves from levels 1 to 100, unless Sketch can be brought back with the Move Tutor or whatever his name is.

It can.  Why wouldn't it be?

The comparison about Alma and equipment was meant to convey piling on interps that render a dueller incapable of winning (Alma starts with a healing rod in the second form and thus cannot deal damage without learning Ultima)
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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2011, 01:18:54 AM »
Tohru Adachi (Persona 4) vs Eruca (Radiant Historia): Muddon was 80%? What? I'm gonna need some backup on this one before voting for Adachi.

60% base rate.  Depends on level and Luck as usual.

---

Oh, and FF13 Daze is closest to Sleep.  What with the take double damage and wake up from next attack part and all.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 01:22:45 AM by Talaysen »

Talaysen

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2011, 01:26:09 AM »
Godlike

Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI) vs  Shinobu Fujiwara (Super Robot Taisen Series)
Xorn (Grandia III) vs Zack Fair (Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire IV) vs Reicher (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
Luca Blight (Suikoden II) vs Holly (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road)

Heavy

Edge Eblan (Final Fantasy IV) vs Victini (Pokémon)
Lady Harken (Wild ARMs) vs Aqua (Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep)
Golem (Pokémon) vs Strawman (The Wizard of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road)
Lyndis (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Razeluxe Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)

Middle

Tohru Adachi (Persona 4) vs Eruca (Radiant Historia)
Smeargle (Pokémon) vs Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII)
Karsh (Chrono Cross) vs Hero (Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride)
Laharl (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) vs Ledah (Riviera: The Promised Land)

Light

Butterfree (Pokémon) vs Levatte (Eternal Poison)
Mullen (Grandia) vs Judith (Tales of Vesperia)
Laguna Loire (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Larsa Ferrinas Solidor (Final Fantasy XII)
Yukari Tekaba (Persona 3) vs Nemne (Suikoden Tierkreis)

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2011, 04:31:01 AM »
The comparison about Alma and equipment was meant to convey piling on interps that render a dueller incapable of winning (Alma starts with a healing rod in the second form and thus cannot deal damage without learning Ultima)

Ah.  Well then, please excuse my rambling then.

Light

Butterfree (Pokémon) vs Levatte (Eternal Poison) - Butterfree just has too many weaknesses.
Mullen (Grandia) vs Judith (Tales of Vesperia) - I'll buy it.
Laguna Loire (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Larsa Ferrinas Solidor (Final Fantasy XII) - This is any FF8 character's kind of match.  It's kinda funny.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2011, 07:19:42 AM »
Quote
Lyndis (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Razeluxe Meitzen (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy): Oh man hype for some durability-doubling ability I find sketchy on legality anyway which I never even got in a game where I was actually somewhat compleitionist by my standards. I could probably be argued into allowing it but I'll certainly never vote for Raze in any match which is remotely close if I do.

I still don't get this. If a boss had this skill you would allow it in a heartbeat (and I'm sure over a dozen do in the DL, 'legal formchain' and all that jazz). Why is it that when a PC gets this skill (which is indisputably legal for Raze to *have* under any definition, as it is neither difficult to get nor aftergame nor overlevelled) all of a sudden it isn't allowed?

On a side note, Strawman does have magic damage from his random action skill. It's probably his best bet against a physical durability monster like Golem. Obviously this doesn't matter if you see ID doing the legwork.

Yeah, I hate unavoidable auto-life and its ability to blatantly cheat durability averages. What else is new? I hate something that randomly doubles durability lategame (see also: Kazan, Mario). In general I'll probably vote to allow such things (got used to it with Mario and Kazan, though it helps that Kazan's isn't stupidly broken and actually costs a turn if the opponent is faster, so it isn't going to do anything inane like triple the actions he would otherwise get) but I don't plan to enjoy it, and I feel absolutely no pity for not giving him a match that requires further judgement calls (i.e. luck hitting through evade).

Where do you get it in MK2, anyway? MK2 FAQs are worthless trash. I'm kinda curious how I missed it if it's neither obscure nor aftergame.

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Cmdr_King

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2011, 07:37:40 AM »
I forget, were you one of the folks that used a secondary average for curve-busting damage characters?  I could see doing something similar for durability-cheating characters like the examples listed.

That said I have to agree with Elfboy's last point.  Raze is built around piling on multi-hit moves all day, which is a lot of evade checks for a notably-evasive FE character to work with...
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2011, 07:40:14 AM »
Oh, I almost certainly do factor in it for their durability at the very least (probably not anyone else's, since it seems unfair to them). It's not a huge effect at the end of the day since they're just one person in 5/10.

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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Futurama 2011 Season 1, Week 1- Mostly Bad Ideas
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2011, 08:46:39 AM »
Looks like it's learned off a C8 accessory whose recipe is bought from a store.
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