Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN

[superaielman]

Just threw this together, since we never did give FE10/SN matches. Standard DL stuff applies, though I fudged divisions a little so that there would be more interesting matchups.


Cain (FE10) vs Myria (BoF3)
Micaiah (FE10) vs Gafgarion (FFT)
Elinica (FE10) vs Margulis (XS)
Sothe (FEs) vs Nergal (FE7)
Zelgius (FE10) vs Songi (LoL1)
Sanaki (FE10) vs Randi (SoM)

Layna (SN) vs Yuri (SHs)
Odie (SN) vs Nina (BoF4)
Grunzford (SN) vs Crono (CT)
Danette (SN) vs Albel (SO3)
Juno (SN) vs Vaida (FE7)
Vitali (SN) vs Vincent Valentine (FF7)

[Dhyerwolf]

Layna (SN) vs Yuri (SHs)
Odie (SN) vs Nina (BoF4)- Did you forget how pointless this match was Super?
Grunzford (SN) vs Crono (CT)- If Crono was ST, Grunzford would counter and win. Crono needs to blow all his MP to win, but he does.
Danette (SN) vs Albel (SO3)- She can block a status, she counters and then 2HKOs after the Counter.
Juno (SN) vs Vaida (FE7)- They both counter. But Juno crushes her regardless.
Vitali (SN) vs Vincent Valentine (FF7)- Vitali has a 4HKO, so I think Vincent can access an L3 to me, so Hellmasker.

[Nephrite]

For Layna vs. Yuri, assuming Yuri2... can't he just last forever against her? Or does she have something that can bust past For Everyone'd Neo Amon or Dark Seraphim?

[Dark Holy Elf]

Cain (FE10) vs Myria (BoF3): Evil Eye. Caineghis is the one royal without the right defences for avoiding this. Not to mention he likely fails to double.
Micaiah (FE10) vs Gafgarion (FFT): Those counters. Incredible stall-fest otherwise! (Micaiah... likely still wins due to Corona, but it's close!)
Elinica (FE10) vs Margulis (XS): Tough one. For all that Elincia is clearly the better dueller, Margulis is fast enough to not be doubled, which reins her otherwise psychotic damage in. Tricky. EDIT: lol Margulis damage.
Sothe (FEs) vs Nergal (FE7): Kneejerk Nergal wins this. He may not be 3HKOed, and certainly 2HKOs back. If he is 3HKOed, it's a tie which is... probably decided by the low chance of Bane, no reason that Nergal would be immune to that. So this will need numbercrunching.
Sanaki (FE10) vs Randi (SoM): EDIT: Randi isn't 2HKOed.

[Dhyerwolf]

For Layna vs. Yuri, assuming Yuri2... can't he just last forever against her? Or does she have something that can bust past For Everyone'd Neo Amon or Dark Seraphim?

When Layna hits limit stage, she does 850 damage turn pre-buffing. She can OHKO on turn 2 with buffing, never mind throwing in things like Counters, and his potentially atrocious recharge times if he wants to avoid them.

[Magic Fanatic]

For Layna vs. Yuri, assuming Yuri2... can't he just last forever against her? Or does she have something that can bust past For Everyone'd Neo Amon or Dark Seraphim?

When Layna hits limit stage, she does 850 damage turn pre-buffing. She can OHKO on turn 2 with buffing, never mind throwing in things like Counters, and his potentially atrocious recharge times if he wants to avoid them.

For Everyone is slow, yes - but it does buff speed, so it balances out.  Energy Charge is wicked fast and wicked broken.  Could, theoretically, Yuri burst past Layna's limit phase with an Energy Charge/FE physical in Dark Seraphim?

[Dhyerwolf]

Yuri can get a little under 2 PC HP damage. Layna survives that on HP alone, let alone good defense and evasion. Yuri likely needs be FEed-EC physical strings to kill her. He can try throwing in healing at various times, but he only has until her 4th turn to kill her. And...that means she'll open by buffing her speed. Now she's not much slower, countering, etc...She has like triple the durability and can buff up to more damage than he can, albeit a bit more slowly. Her stats are insane, and then she buffs them.

[superaielman]

Cain (FE10) vs Myria (BoF3)- I thought Evil Eye was a limit. Or was that death?
Micaiah (FE10) vs Gafgarion (FFT)- No Nos. It's still a decent fight, but... no Nos hurts so much.
Elinica (FE10) vs Margulis (XS)- His 'best' normal damage is MT and ITE, which tips it- otherwise, counters would shred Margulis and the shadows.
Sothe (FEs) vs Nergal (FE7)- Sothe really needs to hit Bane early to have a prayer, and don't see that happening.
Zelgius (FE10) vs Songi (LoL1)- Songi's best offense is physical ST, and he's getting countered. I actually forgot that Songi was slow, so this is a blowout.
Sanaki (FE10) vs Randi (SoM)- Sanaki is uguu in the DL.

Layna (SN) vs Yuri (SHs)- Huh, I figured Yuri would have some status to slow Lanya down. Guess not.  Layna's going first to me against Yuri2, so any buffing game gets slowed down because of that opening ass kicking. Yuri has to open with buffing-healing, and find a way to get in enough offense to prevent Layna from that brutal limit phase.
Odie (SN) vs Nina (BoF4)- You'd see Nina4 getting past counters, Dhyer? Odie does such insane damage that her usual buffing tricks likely won't cut it here, unless she resisted thunder.
Grunzford (SN) vs Crono (CT)- I think so? Crono's got enough defense to take at least one nasty hit from Grunzford.
Danette (SN) vs Albel (SO3)- Unless Albel had a fire sword lying around somewhere. (Sure, I'll tenatively bite on allowing the anti status decor)
Juno (SN) vs Vaida (FE7)- Juno's getting more attacks due to doubling, but her offense is really crippled by Vaida being a flyer. She may be able to buff her way out of trouble, but she's still hitting Vaida's good defense stat. Mmm. Yeah, I think this works.
Vitali (SN) vs Vincent Valentine (FF7)- He has to slug through Galiant Beast as well as Vincent, but should be able to do it with healing? He laughs off Beast Flare and counters regardless.  Goddamn is the Death Penalty a terrible final weapon, on that note.

[OblivionKnight]

Cain (FE10) vs Myria (BoF3) - Dur.  This is hard.
Micaiah (FE10) vs Gafgarion (FFT)
Elinica (FE10) vs Margulis (XS) - lol Mercy
Sothe (FEs) vs Nergal (FE7) - Boss > notboss
Zelgius (FE10) vs Songi (LoL1) - Outlasts the FE9 form, demolishes the FE10 form
Sanaki (FE10) vs Randi (SoM) - Charging hype I guess

Layna (SN) vs Yuri (SHs) - Yuriall is broken
Odie (SN) vs Nina (BoF4) - Outdamages the healing, can't resist his damage
Grunzford (SN) vs Crono (CT) - I guess
Danette (SN) vs Albel (SO3) - MPkill
Juno (SN) vs Vaida (FE7) - Uber spear
Vitali (SN) vs Vincent Valentine (FF7) - Maxed Deathbringer works

[Magic Fanatic]

I'll conceed that Yuri loses this one, but theoreticals are fun.

In any case, I'd almost want to run on a note and assumption:
Note - Yuri has Libertis, which is a flying Wind fusion, which Layna is apparently really bad against?
Assumption - Yuri using Energy Charge is fast enough to give him a double before Layna gets another turn.

Is that worth anything?

[Dark Holy Elf]

Death is the limit (as is Holocaust), not Evil Eye.

Though honestly, Myria outslugs easily enough (probably 2HKOs) with Inferno or Sirocco or whatever anyway. Cain's mdur is only decent (slightly below average Res but awesome HP). This is totally non-close.

Elincia beats Margulis. I was underselling her mdur, which is notably over PC, so nothing short of a 4-Ratka chain will kill her. Margulis' damage otherwise is total garbage and is owned by Elincia's regen (the MT move Super mentions is 6HKO).

Also I underestimated Randi's HP, so he tanks two Cymbelines and wins with a big L4 charge attack or something like that.

EDIT: Also, Nina can get 37.5% resistance to thunder with equips (at a considerable defence hit though, so if these are thunder physicals, she'll want to stick with her innate 12.5% resistance probably), and should avoid counters because her damage is MT.

[Dhyerwolf]

Libertis can make Layna lose some damage, although not even sure when he has much time to access it. Between FE, EC, and needing to heal, he generally has to stay in forms that actually him some skillset. He can't attack in it either since he'd losing a damage which he can't afford.

And yeah, Odie is magical Lightning, so Nina can cut his damage by 3/8...after the fact that his damage is halved due to typing. And then there is Barrier. Nina should kick Geddoe's ass, and Geddoe doesn't have the typing issue.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Cain (FE10) vs Myria (BoF3) - Myria.
Micaiah (FE10) vs Gafgarion (FFT) - Micaiah. Nos for everyone~
Elinica (FE10) vs Margulis (XS) - Elincia. Margulis just takes too long to get any damage going on her.
Sothe (FEs) vs Nergal (FE7) - Nergal. Heh, sorry Sothe.
Zelgius (FE10) vs Songi (LoL1) - Zelgius in a blowout.
Sanaki (FE10) vs Randi (SoM) - Randi, though it was a nice try, Sanaki.

Layna (SN) vs Yuri (SHs) - Layna. Probably one of her better matchups in Godlike.
Odie (SN) vs Nina (BoF4) - Nina. Definitely seeing SN attacks as elemental, so Nina4 gimps his damage even before you consider his innate type weakness.
Grunzford (SN) vs Crono (CT) - Crono. Grunzford has that pesky Lightning weakness. Might be slightly mitigated by his resistance to sword attacks... if Crono ever used physicals in the DL...
Danette (SN) vs Albel (SO3) - Albel. I let SO3 characters MPkill other casts. And Danette ends up using 1/3 of her MP every turn or she won't see her limit phase in time to avoid getting KO'd by normal damage. As a sidenote, I -do- allow the anti-status decor to block a single status.
Juno (SN) vs Vaida (FE7) - EDIT: Juno. The Dragon/Flying-typing advantage destroys Juno's offense... Unless Vaida sucks really hard, I don't see how Juno can win this... Looks like Vaida sucks after all.
Vitali (SN) vs Vincent Valentine (FF7) - Vincent. Uses a gun, Vitali takes 30% more damage from guns and his healing is pretty limited... God dammit, Vincent wins. Near-shutout for SN, Super...

[Dhyerwolf]

Danette (SN) vs Albel (SO3) - Albel. I let SO3 characters MPkill other casts. And Danette ends up using 1/3 of her MP every turn or she won't see her limit phase in time to avoid getting KO'd by normal damage. As a sidenote, I -do- allow the anti-status decor to block a single status.
Juno (SN) vs Vaida (FE7) - Vaida. The Dragon/Flying-typing advantage destroys Juno's offense... Unless Vaida sucks really hard, I don't see how Juno can win this...

I'm not sure how Albel MP killing helps him win. His MP damage is below average at best, and for Vampire Flash, probably around 5-6HKO. Danette reaches the special turn 4 at worst, so either he opts for max MP damage and is just 2HKOed or opts for Vampire Flash and fails to 3HKO and gets the limit.

For Vaida...didn't realize Juno's physical got so badly hit against Dragon Rider. Just using the 1.81 Pdur, Juno does about 58 damage and 7HKO. Limit does 169. Without AS scaling, Vaida does about 30% to Juno. Using my counter view, which basically is that Juno counters when she buffs or heals. I'm going to assume the worst for Juno, which is Vaida counters all damage regardless of any row stuff.
Juno: Attack Buff
Vaida: Attack, Juno Counters (Does 86 Damage)
Juno: Attack, Vaida Counters (Juno has taken 60%, Has Done 164 Damage)
Vaida: Attack, Juno Counters (Juno at 90 Damage, Has Done 242 Damage)
Juno: Heals! (Juno at 30%)
Vaida: Attack, Juno Counters (Juno at 60, Has Done 314 Damage)
Juno: Attacks (Vaida is dead)

So...even assuming Vaida can use her SR counters to counter Juno's semi range attacks, Juno wins by buffing and healing to get extra counters, and then being faster. If Vaida can not use Silver Weapons to counter Juno's LR attacks, then Juno loses 10%-20%, but Vaida in turn loses something like 50%. This can theoretically underrate Vaida's defense a little (depending on how you take it), but also removes her bad AS from the equation. Simply put, Juno is a Heavy to me. Vaida is a Light. A Heavy at halved damage hopefully should still be able to take a Light.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Danette (SN) vs Albel (SO3) - Albel. I let SO3 characters MPkill other casts. And Danette ends up using 1/3 of her MP every turn or she won't see her limit phase in time to avoid getting KO'd by normal damage. As a sidenote, I -do- allow the anti-status decor to block a single status.
Juno (SN) vs Vaida (FE7) - Vaida. The Dragon/Flying-typing advantage destroys Juno's offense... Unless Vaida sucks really hard, I don't see how Juno can win this...

I'm not sure how Albel MP killing helps him win. His MP damage is below average at best, and for Vampire Flash, probably around 5-6HKO. Danette reaches the special turn 4 at worst, so either he opts for max MP damage and is just 2HKOed or opts for Vampire Flash and fails to 3HKO and gets the limit.

If his MP damage is a 3HKO, then Danette can't be using her buffing or any of her abilities since she'll just be speeding up her MPdeath. This means that it takes her longer than usual to get to her limit range. Slowing down the limit range means that Albel can survive until he gets a 3rd turn to finish off Danette's MP. Alternately, if she buffs, Albel only needs 2 turns to MPkill, though the speed boost might(?) be enough to give it to Danette. I haven't mathed it out, it's just a kneejerk.

I forgot about Juno's healing, yeah, I guess Vaida just sucks since she can't win even with an innate typing advantage that drops her opponent's damage by ~150...

[Dhyerwolf]

If Albel is 3HKOing with MP (and that's an if too, as his MP damage is below average, and he may 4HKO average), he's using Aura Wall and not Vampire Flash. This means he's getting 2HKOed by someone faster. Or....perhaps 2HKOed by someone faster who has counters. Vampiric Flash is more like a 6HKO to MP, meaning he eats a limit.

[Pyro]

Cain (FE10) vs Myria (BoF3): Fire magic.
Micaiah (FE10) vs Gafgarion (FFT): This is funny.
Elinica (FE10) vs Margulis (XS)
Sothe (FEs) vs Nergal (FE7)
Zelgius (FE10) vs Songi (LoL1): Not sure what to think of Zelgius.
Sanaki (FE10) vs Randi (SoM)

Layna (SN) vs Yuri (SHs): I... guess? Honestly though Layna being that broken strikes me as wrong for some reason.
Odie (SN) vs Nina (BoF4)
Grunzford (SN) vs Crono (CT)
Danette (SN) vs Albel (SO3)
Juno (SN) vs Vaida (FE7)
Vitali (SN) vs Vincent Valentine (FF7)

[alanna82]

Well, too bad they will never get matches in the DL. I miss this site.

Cain (FE10) vs Myria (BoF3)
Micaiah (FE10) vs Gafgarion (FFT)
Sothe (FEs) vs Nergal (FE7)

Only matches I can vote on!