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Author Topic: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!  (Read 2376 times)

superaielman

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Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« on: July 01, 2011, 07:54:26 PM »
Myria>Cain
Michiah 3, Gafgarion 2
Elincia 3, Margulis 2
Nergal>Sothe
Zeligus>Songi
Randi>Sanaki

Layna>Yuri
Nina>Odie
Crono>Grunzford
Danette 3, Albel 2
Juno 3, Vaida 2
Vincent>Vitali

Godlike:

Naliah (FE10) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)
Layna (SN) vs Raquel Applegate (WA4)
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Ultimecia (FF8)
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Ashera (FE10)

Heavy:

Zelgius (FE10) vs Gau (FF6)
Elincia (FE10) vs Rei (BoF3)
Daos (Lufia 2) vs Jowy (S2)
Adachi (P4) vs Grunzford (SN)

Middle:

Nergal (FE7) vs Mio (G1)
Danette (SN) vs Mua (S3)
Juno (SN) vs Yang (FF4)
Raven (ToV) vs Mara (DW4)

Light:

Randi (SoM) vs Raijin (FF8)
Kongol (LoD) vs Dahna (G3)
Racially Insensitive Wizard (FF1) vs Palmer (FF7)
Serph (DDS) vs Tricia (SN)
« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 07:56:06 PM by superaielman »
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OblivionKnight

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2011, 08:00:07 PM »
Godlike:

Naliah (FE10) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) - Yuri.  Yuriall for Godliker
Layna (SN) vs Raquel Applegate (WA4) - Layna.  Ugly Old Hag form FTW
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Ultimecia (FF8) - Ultimecia.  Far more durability
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Ashera (FE10) - Profound Darkness

Heavy:

Zelgius (FE10) vs Gau (FF6) - Zelgius
Elincia (FE10) vs Rei (BoF3) - Rei.  Elincia is not more than a weak Light ;_;
Daos (Lufia 2) vs Jowy (S2) - Daos.  Godlike in Heavy what.
Adachi (P4) vs Grunzford (SN) - Adachi.

Middle:

Nergal (FE7) vs Mio (G1) - Nergal.
Michiah (FE10) vs Tia (Lufia 2) - Tia.  DS form.
Juno (SN) vs Yang (FF4) - Juno.  She is a god.
Raven (ToV) vs Mara (DW4) - Raven.

Light:

Randi (SoM) vs Raijin (FF8) - Raijin, like a cajin
Kongol (LoD) vs Dahna (G3) - Dahna
Racially Insensitive Wizard (FF1) vs Palmer (FF7) - Racially Insensitive Wizard...Palmer is ranked less than a 3.00 ;_;
Serph (DDS) vs Tricia (SN) - Serph, is Jesus
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Yoshiken

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2011, 08:02:41 PM »
All of these are kneejerk votes. >_>

Godlike:
Nailah (FE10) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) - ...Yeah.
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Ultimecia (FF8) - Other end of the spectrum here. >_>

Heavy:
Zelgius (FE10) vs Gau (FF6) - ...okay, this is odd. I see Gau getting a turn, which means he -should- win, but it's really damn odd.

Light:
Racially Insensitive Wizard (FF1) vs Palmer (FF7) - Less of a kneejerk because, wow, his durability means it actually could be close, I guess?

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2011, 08:12:12 PM »
Godlike:

Layna (SN) vs Raquel Applegate (WA4)- Now this is a match. Layna has...large speed advantage, 3 PC Pdur with no defense, but evasion and counters. Raquel has 4 PC Pdur with evasion (Layna's HIT might cut that down to 3.5ish). Just...Layna's guaranteed counters, as well as less respect for Raquel's damage makes this feel easy to me.
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Ultimecia (FF8)

Heavy:

Daos (Lufia 2) vs Jowy (S2)
Adachi (P4) vs Grunzford (SN)- So...Adachi has the fun always goes last. This makes me lean against him a lot. I feel like there are a million ways I can parse this match, but Adachi's damage sucks, ID/status doesn't give much typing benefit to me, and Grunzford gets him in two turns

Middle:

Nergal (FE7) vs Mio (G1)
Danette (SN) vs Mua (S3)

Juno (SN) vs Yang (FF4)- Block one Status>Yang
Raven (ToV) vs Mara (DW4)

Light:

Randi (SoM) vs Raijin (FF8)- Uh...
Kongol (LoD) vs Dahna (G3)- Magic and better speed work here
Racially Insensitive Wizard (FF1) vs Palmer (FF7)
Serph (DDS) vs Tricia (SN)- Tricia versus Mage
« Last Edit: July 02, 2011, 04:40:41 AM by Dhyerwolf »
...into the nightfall.

superaielman

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2011, 08:25:30 PM »
Godlike:

Naliah (FE10) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)- Even if he goes first, Savage puts a fuckton of pressure on Yuri. He may be able to buff his way out of trouble here, but having my doubts about it. Him avoiding doubles would be enough, but donno if he does that either.
Layna (SN) vs Raquel Applegate (WA4)-Dragon Edge should keep her afloat for long enough.
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Ultimecia (FF8)- See above, but with more fire. Suspsect that Ultimaecia may have to DRAW ABSORB AND USE IT YES to have a shot here.
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Ashera (FE10)- Tenative. Think PD has too much HP.

Heavy:

Zelgius (FE10) vs Gau (FF6)- I scale Zel as a PC to endgame so charm.  
Elincia (FE10) vs Rei (BoF3)- Think Death is enough here.
Daos (Lufia 2) vs Jowy (S2)- Mental math says that Daos survives even a 3-2, and he should 2HKO Jowy.
Adachi (P4) vs Grunzford (SN)- I don't think Grunzford OHKOs Adachi through the defense, but it's close. Two shots of ID should do it.

Middle:

Nergal (FE7)[ vs Mio (G1)- Don't think doubling and going first is enough here.
Danette (SN) vs Mua (S3)- Abstain for now.
Juno (SN) vs Yang (FF4)- EDIT: Mmm, sure, I'll bite.
Raven (ToV) vs Mara (DW4)- 2HKO, goes first. I don't see explode spells resisted by fire. Mara may 2HKO through Raven's fire defense anyway. Raven's best combo is in the neighborhood of half average according to the topc, so that is not getting much respect from me either.

Light:

Randi (SoM) vs Raijin (FF8)- He has more access to his big damage and goes first.
Kongol (LoD) vs Dahna (G3)- Should 2HKO and not be 2HKOed. Well, maybe he'll 2HKO, I think Kongol's damage was pretty average. But Dahna durability was pretty awful, so yeah. Sticking wtih this.  
Racially Insensitive Wizard (FF1) vs Palmer (FF7)- I consider stop fatal here (Palmer can't block it). Not only that, BW resists a third of his damage (as he halves ice) and Palmer offense is pretty horrendous to start with.
Serph (DDS) vs Tricia (SN)- Ew.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2011, 10:12:49 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2011, 09:10:16 PM »
Godlike:

Naliah (FE10) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs): Um, how does Yuri win this? Savage is defence-ignoring OHKO.
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Ultimecia (FF8): Hahaha. That's just stupid. Anyway, Yunalesca's REGEN lets her win this easily given neither has any real damage.
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Ashera (FE10): Too much good MT for Ashera to deal with.

Heavy:

Zelgius (FE10) vs Gau (FF6): It's Charm vs. Eclipse more or less, which is pretty much a tossup (both 40%). Roulette would definitely swing this in Gau's favour but I think I see Zelgius is ID immune (Nihil > Lethality so sure). Unsure. Zelgius gets more shots overall despite conceding the first turn (counters), and he can win through raw damage easily enough, so... probably him, although Gau does have that first shot and some evade.
Elincia (FE10) vs Rei (BoF3): Ah, all these fast opponents for Elincia, trying to sell her short in the DL I see. I suppose Rei has an argument to do with Death but my kneejerk respect for that isn't too high, so I'm thinking Elincia can resist two shots. Outslugging at melee is impossible.
Daos (Lufia 2) vs Jowy (S2): Daos only clocks in barely over 2PCHP to me, so Jowy might not even get the 3-2. I suspect he does get it, though...

Middle:

Nergal (FE7) vs Mio (G1): Nergal probably OHKOs her offhand.

Light:

Randi (SoM) vs Raijin (FF8): Eh, kneejerk. Hard to care here.
Kongol (LoD) vs Dahna (G3): Sleep and magic damage?
Racially Insensitive Wizard (FF1) vs Palmer (FF7): Stop vulnerability is probably enough?

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Maybe.

Random Consonant

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2011, 09:51:47 PM »
Heavy:

Daos (Lufia 2) vs Jowy (S2) - L2 Daos MDef makes this close, at least.


Middle:

Nergal (FE7) vs Mio (G1) - I'll buy the OHKO

Light:

Randi (SoM) vs Raijin (FF8) - apathy
Racially Insensitive Wizard (FF1) vs Palmer (FF7) - Sure, Stop hype.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2011, 05:10:24 AM »
Maaaath Time

Danette vs Mua-
Mua has 46% Evasion to me, Cuts 32% off physicals and has 96% HP. Danette's Long Range attacks now to 16% to average thanks to Mua's massive defense. Mua is Danette has 110% Pdur and 119% Speed, which barely outspeeds Mua's first 8 turns to me, althought not sure that matters much overall. Let's say he's slightly faster.

Mua: Attack (Needs about 2050 S3 Damage to Kill; 555 Damage factoring in Danette's base evade), Danette Counter (7.3% done factoring in his evade; If you just take Mua at -80% to all physicals, he takes 5.2%)
Danette: Buff Evade
Mua: Attack (555+404), Danette Counter (14.6% or 10.4%)
Danette: Buff Attack
Mua: Attack (909+425), Danette Counter (14.6+25.9%; Badass Attack buffing and such; Takes her to 80% base damage, which is 48% after his defense and then 26% to his evade; At flat -80%, this only does 8.6% or 19% total)
Danette: ATtack (+25.9%=66.4%) + BLAZE SLASH (Another 0.93 PC HP) (Under flat 80%, 19%+8.6+22=49.6%; Well Continue with this only)
Mua: Attack (1334+425), Danette Counter (~8% or 58% total)
Danette: ATtack+Blaze Slash (~28% or 86)
Mua: Kills. So, if you see Danette as faster, then she'll get off another attack+Blaze Slash

So, you have to take Mua's defense to be division when both are subtractive (And Danette is particularly good at laughing at defense), need Mua to be faster (And...she'll buff her speed and then switch the turn order around and probably sneak in another attack since her speed jumps  an average of over 55% the first tour turns. Yeah, Danette vote
For Super

Juno vs Yang- Yang has 1.8 HP, solid evasion (but...calling this a wash with Juno's 124% Acc), 134% Speed, 27% to average without Holy (19.4% with Holy). Juno has 127% HP, 103% Speed and her ranged physical that she counters everything Yang does with!...is 55%. Attack typing makes this 39%, which 4.6HKOs Yang. Yang's 27% to average gains a 30% damage, and is now about 35%, which then falls to 30% takes to Juno's defense. This is 24% of Juno's HP)

Yang 5HKOs. Juno 5HKOs. But Juno counters. And Juno heals. And Juno can buff. Pretty much, even with typing negatives, this is still fairly powered Juno versus Yang with no status. You can hype Charge Up, but even more for Juno to attack and buff and heal are not winning matches. This isn't particularly close.
...into the nightfall.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2011, 10:27:49 PM »
Kongol (LoD) vs Dahna (G3): Sleep and magic damage?

Her sleep duration is pitiful. Basically never useful. Her magic damage+delay effect on KONGOL SPEED should be enough though.
...into the nightfall.

Talaysen

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2011, 10:32:10 PM »
Godlike:

Naliah (FE10) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)
Layna (SN) vs Raquel Applegate (WA4)
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Ultimecia (FF8)
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Ashera (FE10)

Heavy:

Zelgius (FE10) vs Gau (FF6)
Elincia (FE10) vs Rei (BoF3)
Daos (Lufia 2) vs Jowy (S2)
Adachi (P4) vs Grunzford (SN)

Middle:

Nergal (FE7) vs Mio (G1)
Danette (SN) vs Mua (S3)
Juno (SN) vs Yang (FF4)
Raven (ToV) vs Mara (DW4)

Light:

Randi (SoM) vs Raijin (FF8)
Kongol (LoD) vs Dahna (G3)
Racially Insensitive Wizard (FF1) vs Palmer (FF7)
Serph (DDS) vs Tricia (SN)

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2011, 03:11:37 AM »
Godlike:

Naliah (FE10) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)
Layna (SN) vs Raquel Applegate (WA4)
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Ultimecia (FF8)
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Ashera (FE10)

Heavy:

Zelgius (FE10) vs Gau (FF6)
Elincia (FE10) vs Rei (BoF3)
Daos (Lufia 2) vs Jowy (S2)
Adachi (P4) vs Grunzford (SN)

Middle:

Nergal (FE7)
vs Mio (G1)
Danette (SN) vs Mua (S3)
Juno (SN) vs Yang (FF4)
Raven (ToV) vs Mara (DW4)

Light:

Randi (SoM) vs Raijin (FF8)
Kongol (LoD) vs Dahna (G3)
Racially Insensitive Wizard (FF1) vs Palmer (FF7)
Serph (DDS) vs Tricia (SN)
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DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2011, 03:49:09 AM »
Godlike:

Naliah (FE10) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) - Sure, what the Elf said.
Layna (SN) vs Raquel Applegate (WA4) - General Raquel damage respect. Also, doesn't all the extra attacks Layna's getting in fill up Raquel's FP meter pretty quickly? Raq almost certainly gets an Intrude chain in the first turn. And Layna has a bad typing against heavy-weapon female units.
Yunalesca (FFX) vs Ultimecia (FF8)
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Ashera (FE10)

Heavy:

Zelgius (FE10) vs Gau (FF6) - Kneejerking that Zel's Res fends off status longer?
Elincia (FE10) vs Rei (BoF3) - Lots of attacks going on in this battle! Pity that doesn't work out well for Rei.
Daos (Lufia 2) vs Jowy (S2) - Lalala L3 Sinistrals
Adachi (P4) vs Grunzford (SN) - Giving Grunsford lots of turns is a bad idea. Notably has an advantage over gunmen, for all that Adachi's normally a mage.

Middle:

Nergal (FE7) vs Mio (G1) - Isn't Nergal status-bait?
Danette (SN) vs Mua (S3) - Danette has a typing advantage to canines, I'm totally giving that to her here.
Juno (SN) vs Yang (FF4) - Not sure.
Raven (ToV) vs Mara (DW4) - Hmm... Raven's damage is terrible, even against someone like Maya. He's totally hoping for a Fatal Strike ID to win this, but Raven's FSes take a long time to activate, even with his best FS-oriented combos. And magic's not really helping him here. And if he's healing, he's not setting up his FSes, though he could notably start setting up the FS with his combo and then get some minor healing in by switching to the heal arrow move mid-combo, but the healing's so pathetic in that case that he, at best, manages to turn Maya's 2HKO in a 3HKO. And FS isn't hitting until turn 3 for him. Alternately... he can totally drain Maya's MP with TP attack. It might even... *checks* No wait, Maya is gamebest mMP, so he's 2HKOing that at best and Blazemost is cheap. Right, so Raven fails.

Light:

Randi (SoM) vs Raijin (FF8)
Kongol (LoD) vs Dahna (G3) - G3 and LoD get starting SP to me. Kongol's not getting status'd, but delay and his terrible magic score (not to mention not getting Dragoon defenses until he actually gets his first turn) puts Dahna ahead.
Racially Insensitive Wizard (FF1) vs Palmer (FF7) - Sure, Stop, whatever.
Serph (DDS) vs Tricia (SN) - Tricia kills mages dead. Interestingly, I'd let Serph build himself in other ways in the DL, but none of his options do anything that give him a typing advantage over Tricia, so at best, he's neutral to her and that means he's doing less-than-optimal damage against her and she's getting first shot and counters.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 09:43:19 AM by DjinnAndTonic »

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2011, 04:24:25 AM »
Nergal (FE7) vs Mio (G1) - Isn't Nergal status-bait?

Nergal goes first and has a very reasonable case to OHKO Mio because 3000 HP at Grandia lategame is complete suck.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2011, 04:30:13 AM »
Nergal goes second to me, but he's also status immune except for instant death (which is a pretty big hole, but not one Mio can exploit).

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DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2011, 04:32:27 AM »
I thought FE bosses could be hit by status? Or does he just have good RES or something?

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2011, 04:33:15 AM »
Layna (SN) vs Raquel Applegate (WA4) - General Raquel damage respect. Also, doesn't all the extra attacks Layna's getting in fill up Raquel's FP meter pretty quickly? Raq almost certainly gets an Intrude chain in the first turn. And Layna has a bad typing against heavy-weapon female units.

Danette (SN) vs Mua (S3) - Danette has a typing advantage to canines, I'm totally giving that to her here.

Raquel gets some nice FP from evading, but only 4 FP from being attacked regardless of damage done (So no Intrude chain turn 1). Also...I'd be wary of comparing Raquel to a Axewoman instead of a swordswoman, especially since Layna's attacking weakness there is based on axewomen flying (Since the other weaknesses are....flying gunners, flying healers, birds, flyers and mounted flyers). That said...if Intrude also kills counters, I could maybe see that as a tipping point.

Mua isn't a dog.
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2011, 04:35:57 AM »
I thought FE bosses could be hit by status? Or does he just have good RES or something?

Nergal is specifically immune. (As are, for reference: Zephiel, Idoun, the Dragon, Lyon, the Demon King, Ashnard, Dheginsea, Sephiran, and Ashera. They're all immune to death as well except the FE6 bosses who don't face it. You can argue Zelgius is Death immune as well since the only ID in FE10 is blocked by Nihil.)

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2011, 04:59:36 AM »
Mua isn't a dog.

...whuuuh? Then who's the dog mercenary guy?

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2011, 05:24:38 AM »
Bah, how can I be expected to remember obscure Suikoden characters that Fashionista Grefter hasn't reviewed yet! Bah!

superaielman

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Re: Welcome to the DL- FE10/SN 2- Now with other games!
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2011, 01:34:52 PM »
Allowing SP makes Dahna much worse. Her damage goes into the toliet (From verging 2HKO to 3HKO here, though *granted* half SP has a lower average) and her SP skills aren't really any good here. She's struggling against Kongol offense as is and it isn't like she is going to double Kongol very often with her own iffy speed- turn canceling helps... some, but she's doing so little damage with it that I don't see it affecting things much.


« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 01:37:54 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...