Author Topic: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1  (Read 3819 times)

Cmdr_King

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Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« on: August 08, 2011, 01:10:28 AM »
Godlike

Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) v Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Zophar (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete) v Tetri (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
Ashera (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) Jade (Breath of Fire)
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) v Sora (Kingdom Hearts Series)

Ted (Suikoden IV) v Claude C. Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story)
Seymour (Final Fantasy X) v Souji Seta (Persona 4)
Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series) v Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II)
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) v Yuri Lowell (Tales of Vesperia)

Heavy

Rei (Breath of Fire III) v Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones)
Hugo (Suikoden III) v Isaac (Gold Sun)
Shadow Teddie (Person 4) v Wugui (Shadow Hearts)
Vulcanus (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) v Arnaud (Wild ARMs 4)

Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of Cursed King) v Adelbert Steiner (Final Fantasy IX)
Lloyd (Legend of Dragoon) v Zerase (Suikoden V)
Edgar (Final Fantasy VI) v Hect (Grandia III)
Harken (Wild ARMs) v Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen)

Middle

Florina (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) v Stocke (Radiant Historia)
Shante (Arc the Lad II) v Lich (Final Fantasy)
Prier (La Pucelle: Tactics) v Tear Grants (Tales of the Abyss)
Estellise Sidos Heurassein (Tales of Vesperia) v Sceptile (Pokémon)

Raine Sage (Tales of Symphonia) v Caina (Wild ARMs 2)
Lise (Seiken Densetsu 3) v Graham Cray (Suikoden IV)
Lightning (Final Fantasy XIII) v Eiko Carol (Final Fantasy IX)
Tifa Lockhart (Final Fantasy VII) v Katt (Breath of Fire II)

Light

Nana (Grandia) v Big Joe (Xenogears).
Snowe (Suikoden IV) v Raja (Phantasy Star IV)
Zhuzhen Liu (Shadow Hearts) v Sunset (Live a Live)
Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) v Rude (Final Fantasy VII)

Kid (Chrono Cross) v Rozalin (Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories)
Akaghi (Suikoden IV) v Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)
Judith (Tales of Vesperia) v Mullen (Grandia)
Basculin (Pokémon) v Meena Mahabala (Dragon Quest IV)

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superaielman

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2011, 01:29:06 AM »
Godlike

Ted (Suikoden IV) v Claude C. Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story)- Nulls dark.
Seymour (Final Fantasy X) v Souji Seta (Persona 4)
Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series) v Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II)
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) v Yuri Lowell (Tales of Vesperia)- Unsure how I feel about HP buffering, so yeah.

Heavy

Rei (Breath of Fire III) v Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones)- Eph's RES wasn't special IIRC.
Hugo (Suikoden III) v Isaac (Gold Sun)- Better.
Shadow Teddie (Person 4) v Wugui (Shadow Hearts)- I'm sure Dark Teddie has a physical, but tenative abstain till I research ti more.

Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of Cursed King) v Adelbert Steiner (Final Fantasy IX)- Steiner halves all of Marcello's elemental damage and I don't think he can physically slug through Steiner in time.
Lloyd (Legend of Dragoon) v Zerase (Suikoden V)- Death counter's enough?
Edgar (Final Fantasy VI) vs Hect (Grandia III)- Edgar can block fire, so splat.
Harken (Wild ARMs) v Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen)- WA1o.

Middle

Shante (Arc the Lad II) v Lich (Final Fantasy) - I would consider Lich weak to holy, which gives Shante the boost she needs here. Lich's physical sucks and Hold is out.
Estellise Sidos Heurassein (Tales of Vesperia) v Sceptile (Pokémon)- Kneejerk that low damage healers like Estelle are the type that Sceptile can handle, even wtih the defenses.

Lise (Seiken Densetsu 3) v Graham Cray (Suikoden IV)- Kneejerk 'Cray blows' vote.
Lightning (Final Fantasy XIII) v Eiko Carol (Final Fantasy IX)- May vote on this later.
Tifa Lockhart (Final Fantasy VII) v Katt (Breath of Fire II)- Don't think Katt can chip past a limit.

Light

Nana (Grandia) v Big Joe (Xenogears).
Snowe (Suikoden IV) v Raja (Phantasy Star IV)
Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) v Rude (Final Fantasy VII)- Think he's less awful.

Kid (Chrono Cross) v Rozalin (Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories)- Faster is enough.
Akaghi (Suikoden IV) v Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)
Judith (Tales of Vesperia) v Mullen (Grandia)
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2011, 01:39:55 AM »
Godlike

Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) v Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World): Hm, I figure Lady gets 3HKOed, and Katrina is faster, so Lady gets two turns, one of which is monstrous, plus the death counter. That's... *estimates* about 4PCHP or so. I see Katrina as 5.
Zophar (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete) v Tetri (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
Ashera (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) vs. Jade (Breath of Fire): Uncertain. Jade really dislikes how bad his MT is here. He can probably take everything out in around 5 MT attacks but this incurs a lot of damage from Mantle (close to 3PCHP worth?) and he has an odd amount of trouble finishing off Ashera herself (that evade + MDef means RAIN is his best option, and that... generously 4HKOs). It's quite close, so voting against the boss who might possible face Agni. EDIT: Forgot that I'd probably let Jade camp on wardwood against Ashera, which tilts things his way! ... except that I -also- forgot about Ashera's regen. So no MT, Jade has to BoltX down the mantles one at a time, and he misses the OHKO on the anti-magic ones (does like 80-90% with either BoltX or physical), and then Ashera herself... I'm not actually convinced he can deal with her body in the time he has, her regen just offsets the physicals too nicely even before the evade. Yikes, pretty heavy-duty spoiling here, you really need high-accuracy physicals/ITD to break Ashera's main body in a duel.
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) v Sora (Kingdom Hearts Series)

Ted (Suikoden IV) v Claude C. Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story): Probably has some BS dark res or something.
Seymour (Final Fantasy X) v Souji Seta (Persona 4)
Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series) v Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II)
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) v Yuri Lowell (Tales of Vesperia)


Heavy

Rei (Breath of Fire III) v Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones): Don't think Eph drops Death to turn 3, unfortunately.
Hugo (Suikoden III) v Isaac (Gold Sun)
Shadow Teddie (Person 4) v Wugui (Shadow Hearts)

Vulcanus (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) v Arnaud (Wild ARMs 4): Vulcanus has to be good enough for this. Right? EDIT: Nope, overestimated his damage. See analysis below, Arnaud wins.

Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of Cursed King) v Adelbert Steiner (Final Fantasy IX): Faster feels like it should make the difference. Could be wrong.
Lloyd (Legend of Dragoon) v Zerase (Suikoden V): EDIT: Okay yeah never mind, 2HKOs and isn't 2HKOed.
Edgar (Final Fantasy VI) v Hect (Grandia III): Don't think Hect could do anything about Air Anchor?
Harken (Wild ARMs) v Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen)

Middle

Florina (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) v Stocke (Radiant Historia): DL Stocke doesn't seem terribly impressive to me. :(
Shante (Arc the Lad II) v Lich (Final Fantasy)
Prier (La Pucelle: Tactics) v Tear Grants (Tales of the Abyss)
Estellise Sidos Heurassein (Tales of Vesperia) v Sceptile (Pokémon)

Raine Sage (Tales of Symphonia) v Caina (Wild ARMs 2)

Lise (Seiken Densetsu 3) v Graham Cray (Suikoden IV): Wouldn't be stunned if he could be silenced. If not, eh, feels like the buffs might tilt it. Not thinking about this too hard.
Lightning (Final Fantasy XIII) v Eiko Carol (Final Fantasy IX): Maybe soon.
Tifa Lockhart (Final Fantasy VII) v Katt (Breath of Fire II): Katt probably just dies to a L1. Granted, if she survives, she wins.

Light

Nana (Grandia) v Big Joe (Xenogears): How is this round 2.
Snowe (Suikoden IV) v Raja (Phantasy Star IV): Huh, I think Snowe may actually be mediocre enough to miss a 2HKO after Blessing -and- fail to 3-2, which should give Raja a win (since he can then Seals to shut off Snowe's own healing and claim a chippy victory). Haha what the hell.
Zhuzhen Liu (Shadow Hearts) v Sunset (Live a Live)
Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) v Rude (Final Fantasy VII)

Kid (Chrono Cross) v Rozalin (Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories)
Akaghi (Suikoden IV) v Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF): Actually competent in the division.
Judith (Tales of Vesperia) v Mullen (Grandia)
Basculin (Pokémon) v Meena Mahabala (Dragon Quest IV)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 07:41:10 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Random Consonant

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2011, 03:01:15 AM »
Heavy
Rei (Breath of Fire III) v Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) - Death.

Middle
Florina (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) v Stocke (Radiant Historia) - Stocke's not a stunning Middle to begin with and Florina mocks his efforts to kill her pretty fiercely.
Shante (Arc the Lad II) v Lich (Final Fantasy) - I guess?
Raine Sage (Tales of Symphonia) v Caina (Wild ARMs 2) - not thinking
Tifa Lockhart (Final Fantasy VII) v Katt (Breath of Fire II) - I'll bite.

Light
Nana (Grandia) v Big Joe (Xenogears) - how is this round 2
Basculin (Pokémon) v Meena Mahabala (Dragon Quest IV) - Kneejerking.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2011, 04:55:25 AM »
Godlike

Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) v Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)- Close, but I do see Lady as having decent durability, and the damage difference is too much.
Zophar (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete) v Tetri (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)

Ted (Suikoden IV) v Claude C. Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story)
Seymour (Final Fantasy X) v Souji Seta (Persona 4)
Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series) v Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II)
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) v Yuri Lowell (Tales of Vesperia)- No HP buffering, but she doesn't need it. Gets hit into form 3,summons physical orb

Heavy

Rei (Breath of Fire III) v Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones)
Hugo (Suikoden III) v Isaac (Gold Sun)- Not thinking about this too hard
Shadow Teddie (Person 4) v Wugui (Shadow Hearts)- Ugh at this trash winning two matches in Heavy. So bad in game.
Vulcanus (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) v Arnaud (Wild ARMs 4)

Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of Cursed King) v Adelbert Steiner (Final Fantasy IX)
Lloyd (Legend of Dragoon) v Zerase (Suikoden V)- Should 2HKO Zerase and really isn't in much danger of being 2HKOed first. Maybe without 40% magic resistance.
Edgar (Final Fantasy VI) v Hect (Grandia III)
Harken (Wild ARMs) v Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black)- ACF is a near perfect Fogel foiler (ITD/ITE with physical walling)

Middle

Florina (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) v Stocke (Radiant Historia)
Shante (Arc the Lad II) v Lich (Final Fantasy)
Estellise Sidos Heurassein (Tales of Vesperia) v Scep dead by then.

Raine Sage (Tales of Symphonia) v Caina (Wild ARMs 2)
Lise (Seiken Densetsu 3) v Graham Cray (Suikoden IV)- Cray blows in game, but he does have a solid 2HKO and Lise doesn't. Buffs aren't so potent either.
Lightning (Final Fantasy XIII) v Eiko Carol (Final Fantasy IX)- Funz with speed. Lightning 2HKOs first or Eiko Minis first. I'm going to say Lightning's attacks speed is generally above average
Tifa Lockhart (Final Fantasy VII) v Katt (Breath of Fire II)

Light

Nana (Grandia) v Big Joe (Xenogears).
Snowe (Suikoden IV) v Raja (Phantasy Star IV)- Holy fuck, Snowe's damage is this bad.
Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) v Rude (Final Fantasy VII)

Kid (Chrono Cross) v Rozalin (Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories)
Akaghi (Suikoden IV) v Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)
Judith (Tales of Vesperia) v Mullen (Grandia)
...into the nightfall.

SnowFire

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2011, 05:53:45 AM »
Godlike

Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) v Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Lady has MT but is outslugged anyway.


Heavy

Vulcanus (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) v Arnaud (Wild ARMs 4)
Disgaea boss disrespect.

Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of Cursed King) v Adelbert Steiner (Final Fantasy IX)
Very close, but feels like Steiner needs more calls to go his way, and not a huge fan of allowing Tin Armor.
Lloyd (Legend of Dragoon) v Zerase (Suikoden V)
Edgar (Final Fantasy VI) v Hect (Grandia III)
Sure.
Harken (Wild ARMs) v Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen)
Was rooting for Ike before but Fogel has this one.

Middle

Florina (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) v Stocke (Radiant Historia)
I don't think Stocke should be ruled out so quickly.  If Florina uses a Silver Lance, she doesn't double; if she uses an Iron Lance, I think she barely doubles.  So Stocke equips Historica (or True Historica, if it's allowed...  might be willing to throw Stocke a bone since it usually doesn't matter and Power Wave is what he generally uses before the mighty G-Fire arrives anyway).  Now Florina doesn't even double with a Slim Lance (barely, she's 131% avg. speed vs. ~115% with 3.5 AS being 17.5% average.).  In fairness, Stocke's 2HKO is super-shaky- he's using Historica and Florina has mildly above average RES despite her meh HP.  And thanks to evade it's more like a 4HKO.  However, it does avoid counters, and Florina barely misses the 3HKO with average damage vs. 1.25 PDurability...  and if the "all FE characters are average init" interp is used, then Stocke 4HKOs-including-evasion first.
...except that Florina arguably just starts with a Javelin equipped to do some chip damage, and has Weapon Triangle Advantage on Stocke.  Which means she basically 3HKOs after all.  And I'm not sure I buy all FE characters being average init anyway, and Florina is both fast and with a large threat range.  Damn.
Prier (La Pucelle: Tactics) v Tear Grants (Tales of the Abyss)

Raine Sage (Tales of Symphonia) v Caina (Wild ARMs 2)
Lise (Seiken Densetsu 3) v Graham Cray (Suikoden IV)
Lightning (Final Fantasy XIII) v Eiko Carol (Final Fantasy IX)
Yeah, FF9 speed is pretty irrelevant on turn 2 anyway, and I see Lightning as a bit fast, and she definitely 2HKOs.  One Mini doesn't cut it, and even if it's seen as a coinflip as to who takes turn 2 first...  28% of the time Lightning survives 2 Minis and wins anyway.
Tifa Lockhart (Final Fantasy VII) v Katt (Breath of Fire II)

Light

Nana (Grandia) v Big Joe (Xenogears).
Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) v Rude (Final Fantasy VII)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 05:56:56 AM by SnowFire »

Yoshiken

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2011, 11:33:44 AM »
Seymour (Final Fantasy X) v Souji Seta (Persona 4) - what a matchup. I'm struggling to think of Godlikes (that I know) that Souji doesn't prefer facing.

Shadow Teddie (Persona 4) v Wugui (Shadow Hearts) - P4 smash! Also, lol at Shadow Teddie winning matches. Although, I guess this makes sense, since Wugui is gimmicky and Shadow Teddie gets around both sides of the gimmick quite nicely.

Clear Tranquil

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2011, 09:45:20 PM »
Godlike

Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) v Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - *eyes Jo'ou Ranbu*
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) v Sora (Kingdom Hearts Series) - CK saaave us  :P

Ted (Suikoden IV) v Claude C. Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story)
Seymour (Final Fantasy X) v Souji Seta (Persona 4)

Heavy

Shadow Teddie (Person 4) v Wugui (Shadow Hearts)

Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of Cursed King) v Adelbert Steiner (Final Fantasy IX)
Lloyd (Legend of Dragoon) v Zerase (Suikoden V)

Middle

Estellise Sidos Heurassein (Tales of Vesperia) v Sceptile (Pokémon)

Lise (Seiken Densetsu 3) v Graham Cray (Suikoden IV)
Lightning (Final Fantasy XIII) v Eiko Carol (Final Fantasy IX)

Light

Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) v Rude (Final Fantasy VII)

Akaghi (Suikoden IV) v Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)
Judith (Tales of Vesperia) v Mullen (Grandia)
Basculin (Pokémon) v Meena Mahabala (Dragon Quest IV)

« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 04:05:02 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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Cmdr_King

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2011, 01:35:00 AM »
Uh... Sora's got a damage reducer, healing, excellent damage manipulation, and can't be killed by a single hit.  I'm not sure what Indy even does to him >.>
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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2011, 05:00:08 AM »
Godlike

Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) v Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Zophar (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete) v Tetri (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
Ashera (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) v Jade (Breath of Fire)
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) v Sora (Kingdom Hearts Series)

Ted (Suikoden IV) v Claude C. Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story)
Seymour (Final Fantasy X) v Souji Seta (Persona 4)- Souji, in your tournaments, making them less awesome.
Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series) v Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II)
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) v Yuri Lowell (Tales of Vesperia)

Heavy

Rei (Breath of Fire III) v Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones)
Hugo (Suikoden III) v Isaac (Golden Sun)
Shadow Teddie (Persona 4) v Wugui (Shadow Hearts)
Vulcanus (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) v Arnaud (Wild ARMs 4)

Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of Cursed King)
v Adelbert Steiner (Final Fantasy IX)
Lloyd (Legend of Dragoon) v Zerase (Suikoden V)
Edgar (Final Fantasy VI) v Hect (Grandia III)
Harken (Wild ARMs) v Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen)

Middle

Florina (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) v Stocke (Radiant Historia)
Shante (Arc the Lad II) v Lich (Final Fantasy)
Prier (La Pucelle: Tactics) v Tear Grants (Tales of the Abyss)
Estellise Sidos Heurassein (Tales of Vesperia) v Sceptile (Pokémon)


Raine Sage (Tales of Symphonia) v Caina (Wild ARMs 2)
Lise (Seiken Densetsu 3) v Graham Cray (Suikoden IV)
Lightning (Final Fantasy XIII) v Eiko Carol (Final Fantasy IX)
Tifa Lockhart (Final Fantasy VII) v Katt (Breath of Fire II)

Light

Nana (Grandia) v Big Joe (Xenogears).
Snowe (Suikoden IV) v Raja (Phantasy Star IV)
Zhuzhen Liu (Shadow Hearts) v Sunset (Live a Live)
Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) v Rude (Final Fantasy VII)

Kid (Chrono Cross) v Rozalin (Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories)
Akaghi (Suikoden IV) v Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)
Judith (Tales of Vesperia) v Mullen (Grandia)
Basculin (Pokémon) v Meena Mahabala (Dragon Quest IV)
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Clear Tranquil

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2011, 09:39:47 AM »
Thanks CK :) Works for me *votes* ~

Anybody have anything to say on Basculin/Meena?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 09:43:47 AM by Clear Tranquil »
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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2011, 10:52:05 AM »
Anybody have anything to say on Basculin/Meena?

Haven't played DQ4, but with stat topics...

Going by original, Basculin needs to do slightly above average damage to KO. He's also 100% certainly going first, since Basculin is pretty fast and Nara REALLY REALLY ISN'T. (Although, I suck at working out speeds with SDs, so no idea when he doubles.)
Nara has Sleepmore/Kasnooze, which is apparently 66% Sleep against average, and Basculin is very below average SpDef. If you see that hitting, Basculin -then- has a 50/50 chance of waking up and.. I don't know DQ4, like I said, so not sure if he can attack straight away upon waking up. If he can, then Sleep is useless and Nara's only hope is to OHKO Basculin and not get OHKOed, which is very unlikely. If he doesn't attack straight away, she has to keep applying sleep until it sticks and then hit him on the off-turn.
Nara seems to be dealing 74-80% of average damage, depending on DS/original. This is 30-32% average MDur. Now, Pokemon stat topic seems to assume average EVs/IVs at Lv 50, so Basculin would be looking at approximately 150 HP and 80 SpD. Given the power creep, I'd assume the average in Gen 5 is slightly higher than that of Gen 4, so I'll say that, instead of 155/100 for HP/other stats, it's probably closer to 160/105 (I know, not a huge difference, but only ~160 new Pokemon compared to the previous 493.) That leaves Basculin at 0.71 MDur, which is more than enough to survive a few hits from Nara.
Now let's check Basculin's damage. We're looking at about 110 Attack, which, using Luxray's Discharge as a similar attack power, x1.5 because Adaptability Aqua Tail comes out as 180 Base Power, Discharge from Luxray is 120 BP... It works out as 87 damage to a 71 average at the time - I'd assume that's up to about 80, honestly, given Gen 5. So Basculin's doing 1.0875x average damage to Nara's 0.74 PDur. This equates to a 2HKO from Basculin, meaning Nara has time to go for the sleep strategy, but not the damage.

tl;dr: This fight basically comes down to DQ4 Sleep, assuming you agree with the interps taken here. If Basculin can attack on waking up, he wins. If not, Nara wins by re-applying and attacking on the sleeping turns. Oh, and if you count Water as Ice damage here, then Nara probably wins.
Basculin gets 3HKOed, Nara gets 2HKOed. Nara can't afford a healing strategy because Basculin will eventually critical (1/16 chance), so sleep is the only hope, and that's assuming it hits often enough. Odds are, Basculin takes this match.

And now I really hope I found the right sister for all of this. :)

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2011, 04:20:03 PM »
Nara really can't beat opponents who consistently 2HKO her for the most part, due to a combination of bad damage and sleep's miss rate. (This is why she's bad in the division despite full healing.) Also, based on DQ4o she is below half PCHP and almost certainly just gets OHKOed; assuming DQ4r for the rest of this post.

She can scrounge up ice resistance (YMMV as to if that covers water) but it comes at a large hit to her defence, so very likely not worth it against elemental physicals.

I haven't played Gen 5, but if it's like the previous games, there are status-blocking berries available, and I allow those (yes, they only work once per battle) which seems like it would make this fight a slaughter.

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2011, 07:40:31 PM »
Okay, so I was totally wrong about Vulcanus vs. Arnaud. I was thinking his magic damage was around 750, it is in fact 450, which is a 3HKO to average (barely) and a 4HKO to Arnaud. This makes Arnaud's victory very easy, he can even afford to cover his bases and use Illusion (whether this is actually worth the turn depends on how good Vulcanus' accuracy is).

Arnaud: Slow Down
Vulcanus
Arnaud: Illusion
Arnaud: Hi-Blast (or Hyper if he opts for physicals)
Vulcanus
Arnaud x3
Vulcanus
Arnuad x3

(Remember, Slow Down reduces an average speed opponent to 42%, and Arnaud is 114%, so he has close to a tripleturn on slowed average opponents.)

Now, 7 attacks is probably enough to win here (it's over 1.5x PCHP). I know Dhyer views the damage average as higher so for him it may not... but it's worth pointing out that Arnaud also has Magic Blocker which reduces Vulcanus to a 5HKO, and three more Hi-Blasts should kill for sure. I guess Holy Lightning might ignore this, but it's also even weaker than the normal magic, so I suspect it just 5HKOs period (though... he may be able to mix in some of that and some magic and win). Hyper + physicals also may well do more damage, depending on Vulcanus evade respect (Disgaea is kinda weird about this). I can still see saying Vulcanus wins this, but I definitely think the match is in Arnaud's favour, now.

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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2011, 07:58:16 PM »
Vulcanus is about painful ITE anyways. I guess WA 4 evasion is more comprehensive, but I didn't think it was so comprehensive (ala FE) where is has a strong argument for getting past Vulcanus.
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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2011, 01:29:45 AM »
ITE? As in, actually hits ninjas 100% of the time? Because I know Lamington doesn't.

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2011, 04:43:43 AM »
Well, if you hold Ninjas to the standard for ITE, then likely not. I know the last time in the DL this came up, that wasn't the general standard, but that was a while ago.
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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2011, 08:59:41 PM »
Thanks guys :) I feel like I have made a informed decision on that match now. Yeah I do usually take similar elements as the same at least from games that treat them as the same (SO3, ice/water, Nel's Ice Daggers/Blades of Ryusen, Peppita's Frozen Daggers/Spike Shoes, also the Elven Cloak covers lightning/thunder/wind) though I'm not sure how DQ4 handles that (I've played it but didn't manage to complete it before I had to give it back so I don't remember much) Still though it sounds like from what NEB's saying Meena/Nara might be doing herself more harm than good by hitting elemental resists. I think the fact that the Pokeman has the speed advantage and is doing solid damge vs a slower opponent with less powerful status/damage swings the match in it's favour. Seems like the match goes 2-1 for the Poke unless the sleep hits but even if it does it's just delaying the inevitable if there's no chance to get in healing/damage in the meantime. With the Poke being fast it's unlikely Meena/Nara will get in the extra turns/any doubles/etc to turn the match in her favour~
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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2011, 06:01:57 AM »
Godlike

Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) v Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World): Think she applies the pain here.
Zophar (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete) v Tetri (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy): OHKO, magic halving be damned.
Ashera (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) Jade (Breath of Fire): I ... guess? his MT is super-shitty I think. And... 9 attacks is a lot to take from Ashera.
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) v Sora (Kingdom Hearts Series): Indy has Dispel but even that doesn't save him does it? Divine Wave might work here...

Ted (Suikoden IV) v Claude C. Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story): Dark Immunity? Sure.
Seymour (Final Fantasy X) v Souji Seta (Persona 4): Outheals Ultima, giggles at the elemental magic.
Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series) v Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II)
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) v Yuri Lowell (Tales of Vesperia): Well this is pretty straightforward.

Heavy

Rei (Breath of Fire III) v Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones): Death sure.
Hugo (Suikoden III) v Isaac (Gold Sun)
Shadow Teddie (Person 4) v Wugui (Shadow Hearts): Unspoiled.
Vulcanus (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) v Arnaud (Wild ARMs 4): I can buy into Arnaud hype.

Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of Cursed King) v Adelbert Steiner (Final Fantasy IX): Steiner has no healing, Marcello is fast... even with reducing elements I don't think it's enough.
Lloyd (Legend of Dragoon) v Zerase (Suikoden V): Not entirely sure but I think his speed and finisher and so on works.
Edgar (Final Fantasy VI) v Hect (Grandia III): Just copying others here mostly. Air Anchor or did G3 block ID?
Harken (Wild ARMs) v Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen)

Middle

Florina (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) v Stocke (Radiant Historia): Sure.
Shante (Arc the Lad II) v Lich (Final Fantasy): Fast physicals? Well, she counters.. but her counters suck arse.
Prier (La Pucelle: Tactics) v Tear Grants (Tales of the Abyss): Can probably outheal her damage.
Estellise Sidos Heurassein (Tales of Vesperia) v Sceptile (Pokémon)

Raine Sage (Tales of Symphonia) v Caina (Wild ARMs 2)
Lise (Seiken Densetsu 3) v Graham Cray (Suikoden IV)
Lightning (Final Fantasy XIII) v Eiko Carol (Final Fantasy IX): Buffing/healing/Mini?
Tifa Lockhart (Final Fantasy VII) v Katt (Breath of Fire II)

Light

Nana (Grandia) v Big Joe (Xenogears).
Snowe (Suikoden IV) v Raja (Phantasy Star IV)
Zhuzhen Liu (Shadow Hearts) v Sunset (Live a Live)
Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) v Rude (Final Fantasy VII)

Kid (Chrono Cross) v Rozalin (Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories)
Akaghi (Suikoden IV) v Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF)
Judith (Tales of Vesperia) v Mullen (Grandia)
Basculin (Pokémon) v Meena Mahabala (Dragon Quest IV)

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2011, 03:05:33 PM »
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) v Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - My views of Katrina probably have her sitting around at something like 3.5x PC HP before defenses. Close, but not -quite-, there.
Zophar (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete) v Tetri (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) - EBC Zophar sooooooooo wins, though. THIRDING 30x PC HP DAMAGE YESZ
Indalecio (Star Ocean: The Second Story) v Sora (Kingdom Hearts Series) - Indy doesn't even have Dispel until ToT and Sora of the OHKO damage and ten billion ways to chip certainly won't struggle to blow past that. Not to mention Divine Wave doesn't have the punch to be useful against Second Chance anyway. >_>

Ted (Suikoden IV) v Claude C. Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story) - Equipment nonsense.
Seymour (Final Fantasy X) v Souji Seta (Persona 4) - This is just awful.
Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series) v Rolf Landale (Phantasy Star II) - Sooooooo buy Tir surviving a single Megid even if he's slower.

Heavy

Rei (Breath of Fire III) v Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) - Don't think the evade is good enough to reduce the accuracy to turn three, I guess?
Shadow Teddie (Person 4) v Wugui (Shadow Hearts) - Man, Shadow Teddie is going to the semis and that's so gonna suck.

Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of Cursed King) v Adelbert Steiner (Final Fantasy IX) - Steiner just ain't that great a slugger.
Lloyd (Legend of Dragoon) v Zerase (Suikoden V) - MAGIC RESIST YESZ
Edgar Roni Figaro (Final Fantasy VI) v Hect (Grandia III) - Hect even can immune ID IIRC. Thing is she's literally incapable of immuning both Confuse and ID and Edgar's faster. Gaaaaaaaaaaaame.
Harken (Wild ARMs) v Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) - spooooooooooooooooooooilage

Middle

Shante (Arc the Lad II) v Lich (Final Fantasy) - Fast'd Lich physicals 4HKO average and Shante's pdur is like 1.33x, which still leaves her into that safe 3HKO range. This is how awesome Lich's non-magical offense is. He runs off an element Shante resists to boot, so say hi to spoiling.

Lise (Seiken Densetsu 3) v Graham Cray (Suikoden IV) - Do I buy Lise living long enough after Mind Up? Yes, I think I do. Lise's buffs -are- very potent, at least from my memory. 1/3 total increase on a clear three-digit scale running off subtraction defense is good, and Lise's mdur is already on the side of solid.
Tifa Lockhart (Final Fantasy VII) v Katt (Breath of Fire II) - sure why not

Light

Nana (Grandia) v Big Joe (Xenogears) - shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii-
Snowe (Suikoden IV) v Raja (Phantasy Star IV) - Snowe is the bestest.
Zhuzhen Liu (Shadow Hearts) v Sunset (Live a Live) - Huh, Sunset actually avoids a OHKO. I -do- remember CT also counting the turn you begin the attack for the charge time, so he manages.
Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) v Rude (Final Fantasy VII) - uhhhhhhhh

Akaghi (Suikoden IV) v Labyrinthia Wordsworth (Wild ARMs XF) - 3HKO, 3-2 at worst, fweem.
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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2011, 05:34:58 PM »
Well, if you hold Ninjas to the standard for ITE, then likely not. I know the last time in the DL this came up, that wasn't the general standard, but that was a while ago.

I'm not sure I understand why you wouldn't? Do Ninjas have some special type of evasion or something?
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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2011, 12:06:32 AM »
* Clear Tranquil amends votes moar

Yeah looks like that's Lady's fight.

How accurate is Eiko's Mini again? If I recall correctly Eiko is a tab on the slow side while Lightning is ded average pseudo ARPG style FFXIII flavoured but with a bit of edge due to fast attacking animations. Lightning has turn priority and apparently 2HKOs so Eiko really needs Mini to land first go when her turn comes up. If she heals to full instead (not sure whether Eiko has this ability or not now) Lightning probably just heal locks her and never gives her breathing space to try anything else. Unless Protect/Shell/Vanish would prevent Lightning finishing the 2HKO on her second turn. Or if Eiko can equipment/stat boost for speed =/ With starting TPs or stalling for Odin Light could summon and go for Zantetzuken as a finisher though (granted Eiko's HP has to be low for that)~
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 12:10:26 AM by Clear Tranquil »
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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2011, 12:48:56 AM »
Mini has a 47% hit rate, which shouldn't be turn 1 by any standards.

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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2011, 04:00:11 AM »
Well, if you hold Ninjas to the standard for ITE, then likely not. I know the last time in the DL this came up, that wasn't the general standard, but that was a while ago.

I'm not sure I understand why you wouldn't? Do Ninjas have some special type of evasion or something?

Yes. They have the special "evade everything" quality, where everything is both positive and negative skills aimed at them. Seems like calling attacks ITE makes sense if only 1 out of a whole horde of classes can evade and that class can then evade your healing at the same rate too.
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Re: Tourney 2011 Round 2, Week 1
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2011, 04:12:31 AM »
So it's kinda like a damage reduction separate from 'defense' right? I'm pretty sure that would qualify as ITE in most situations. Pretty sure even XF's Sacrifice hits shield ranged damage reduction, for example, and it is still very much ITD.