Musing over BoF4 Character Balance

[Meeplelard]

Yeah, Elfboy did this with CT and Tide with WA4, and I kind of wanted to do one of my own.  Most of the games I want to do are not very compatible with this, for reasons like "no EXP for PCs out of party", or "Cast too big" or "too many variables to consider with playstyle" and all that.  Alternatively, we have the original BoF where the game is basically "there is only one party, everyone figures it out pretty fast don't let people try to make you think otherwise!"  So after discussing it in chat, we decided BoF4 is a good game for this for a few reasons:

1. I know enough about the game to be judge.   BoF4 has some random variables you can't control like random drops, but there's also Non-Random drops that are circumstantial (eg Ershin's Early Raptor Claws), and I tend to know which are the random drops, which are the controlled ones, etc. and thus any good luck I get on drops I can easily rule out.  THANKFULLY, nothing TOO significant in either direction exists.

2. Everyone gains EXP for the most part.  This means no character will be bad due to underleveledness barring plot inconveniences (eg Ryu joins at level 1 when Nina is level 5), so I can adequately swap in and out and test worth.

3. Furthermore, character swapping.  Since it can be done on a fly in battle, it makes testing on the spot REALLY easy.

4. BoF4's cast is diverse and interesting enough to make people CARE.  The Skill System while being a universal shared skill is like WA3's implementation in that it doesn't compromise uniqueness, but rather, emphasizes it.  Yeah, you CAN give Cray a magic skill, but it'll be so god awful with the AP and Wisdom combo, it just further gets the point across "He's a Fighter!"  Likewise, the existence of physical skills means that Cray, hypothetically, has ways to do big damage.

5. Odd Synergy aspect.  Due to BoF4's combo system and all that, a character may be only so useful by themselves, but can become a lot better if paired with the right character. The famous example is how much better Ursula and Nina become when paired together than when they are alone.

6.  I know a lot of the skill quirks of enemies.  This ties into number 1.  For obscure stuff like Early Shadow Walk, I'll be noting them, and unsure how I'll factor them in.


So yeah, I'll be updating this occasionally, and of course, this is Meeple Style so it'll be probably wordier than need be!  Also I tend to forget names of enemies and such so I might use vague descriptions like "Those thieves!" and what not.  Furthermore, for Skills...well, I tend to hand them out on a whim.  There's some gameplay logic, but also bare in mind you can't control who INITIALLY learns skills from enemies, so if you see me talking about an odd skill usage, that'd be why (well, and perhaps I was too lazy to change skills then, or was low on Aurum, etc.)


A few things to note about playing style nonsense:

-I will be using EXP Tricks when they're convenient.  So no, I won't use a lot of Fire Spells on a Lavaoid to get EXP fast, but I will use Blind on the occasional eye Goo early, or try to provoke Goo Counts "Level Up" factor on turn 1.  I am not going out of my way to do this, but I am taking advantage of these, if that makes sense.
-For masters, skills, etc. I am using whatever I feel is best.  I will be going out of my way to say who gets what and why
-I do SOME fishing.  I don't abuse it or anything (so don't expect any chap 2 Renders or whatever), but expect to see me bring up things like Firangi or the Flail
-I go to each "?" spot at least once, to get the item there (I know they respawn but sometimes there are genuine goodies) and cause sometimes it opens up other areas (usually fishing); this gets me a few extra fights, but not too many to make me overleveled.


So lets get started...NEXT POST!

[Meeplelard]

Everything Before Chamba

1. Nina
2. Ryu

This really needs no explanation.  Nina is better at everything than Ryu for most of this.  Yes, even physical damage and durability.  Having a massive level edge does that.  Nina can also heal, has Sever meaning she allows for Firewind combo to be made (either can learn Burn, so I credit Nina with this, grant Ryu can use Hwa! ...post Medidate...making it just stupid), is faster, and yes, she's even more durable due to her 25% physical resistance.  Ryu does catch up on physical damage during Sandflyer Valley, though then he breaks his King Sword, and then Nina pulls ahead again.  The ONE THING Ryu has on Nina is that Ryu can counter attack!  This doesn't really change much.

For noteworthy skills gained, Nina learned Rest, so she now has more or less limitless AP ala Nina 2's Will (except this cannot fail EVER), and being more likely to run out (Healing and Sever costs 3x the AP as Burn), she's the ideal character.  Ryu gets Burn as noted above.  I got others like Blind but beyond EXP Tricks or other quirky moves, not worth bringing up.  Assume this as a standard.

...yes, I skipped over the Fou-lu sections.  Assume I'm doing that cause while it'd be funny the first time to say "1. Fou-lu" and nothing else, it'd get old, and we know how those sequences go:

"Fou-lu is awesome.  He kicks ass.  Things die.  He kicks more ass.  Cause he's awesome.  AWE AT THE AWESOME!"


Chamba

1. Nina
2. Ryu
3. Ershin

Well, Ryu's actually doing more damage than Nina on his physical now...its just hard to fully care cause the difference isn't large.  Ershin's a tank here who resists status, but the status both sucks, and fights aren't in need of a tank.  Ershin has a decent counter rate when she's hit, unfortunately, her physical sucks, cause its so inaccurate.  This makes Ershin nearly worthless offensively.  I don't know if you CAN leave N. Chamba to give skills to her, but even if you could, Ershin's AP is so bad, there's no way she'd be able to support Burn for the Firewind Combo.  Oh yeah, Firewind absolutely decimates this dungeon, so Nina is just ruthless.  Even without Firewind, Nina can cast Heal on a lot of enemies here to do some big damage.  Get use to hearing "Nina is awesome" related comments in this really.   Ryu...mostly has the AP to support using Burn, and is much faster than Ershin so he can occasionally pull off Burn before enemies do.   Plus his physical is reliable due to lacking any innate accuracy issues. 

The boss only solidifies this more.  Ryu can do absurd damage with Rejuvenate in Aura but he runs out of gas really fast (Rejuvenate costs 7 AP), Nina can cast Heal which not as strong as Rejuvenate, pretty much lasts the entire fight (plus she has Rest to restore AP), and Ershin can...uh...THROW HEALING HERBS!!!  Yeah, Ershin just sucks in this fight.  Really, Ershin is just a warm body the entire dungeon.  Early game Ershin SUCKS.

Ershin learns Flame Strike from Ryu.  Somewhere down the line, I give it to Cray when he joins, I don't remember quite when that is, nor is it all that relevant.

Dream and filler stuff right after

1. Nina
2. Ryu
3. Ershin
4. Cray

At this point, Nina and Ryu are self explanatory, so same stuff applies here.  Just know that Ryu's competence stands out more due to having more failures to compare too, though Nina's still very clearly the dominant character.  To be fair, Nina's physical is starting to show signs of falling behind (its not quite worthless yet), but due to having Rest, she can keep her AP afloat, and we now have 4 characters, so CP system exists as well for lengthier fights.  You might be wondering how Early Game Ershin is above Cray?  Well, simple: Raptor Claws.  This is a big upgrade in Ershin's damage which can be gained reliably in the Dream if you know how (kill the armored guys without cracking their armor, its almost a guaranteed drop IIRC.  Doing so is easy if you use Magic.)  Her physical still has accuracy issues, but she also comes innately with physical skills so can make physical combos if you want.  In fairness, Wild Swing kicks in here, which is a free (unreliable) Physical attack for Cray or Ryu.
Now, Cray's damage is reliable unlike Ershin's and that arguably makes him the better 3rd character.  However, here comes the tiebreak factors:
-Ershin's Red Cape.  This makes her have a higher counter rate than Cray.  Yes, it makes her slow as hell, but both are slower than all enemies here regardless its such a minor penalty in the grand scheme of things.
-Ershin's a better tank.  Status resistance (little as it matters now) and higher defense > Cray's HP.  this just makes her a better warm body, as needless as it is.  Cray does have Guard, but it doesn't kick in often enough for me to care.
-Cover Fire.  Even when I'm NOT using Ershin, Ershin can come in handy from the back row.


The Dam, Forest and Underground passage to Synesta
1. Nina
2. Ryu
3. Cray
4. Ershin

After all that, Cray learns Rock Blast, and we get Rwolf.  I master everyone under Rwolf cause -1 Strength for +1 AP is a good deal at this point since Nina doesn't need Strength, Cray and Ershin are starving for AP, and Ryu...well, that was more a "Why not."  To add to this, +1 Wisdom lets Ershin get a head start on her magic training that will come in handy in the 2nd half of the game.  Yeah, I'm raising Ershin as a mage since while fruitless NOW, it has a purpose in the 2nd half, and I figure there's not much I can do to make 1st Half Ershin decent.

THAT SAID, I go as far as getting Plateau from Rwolf, which goes to Nina, so she now has a level 2 spell.  This would allow for level 2 combos except I don't have any Water spells to lead into a catastrophe combo.   Eddy goes to Ryu cause...uh...Eddy = Name of Megaman's Partner, Megaman = Mani character who is blue, Ryu = Main Character who has Blue hair!  THERE! More seriously?  Eddy is kind of pointless.  If there was a Water spell at this point, it'd allow for a lightning combo with Nina for deviation from Firewind.  Furthermore, Nina already has Sever which is basically the same thing, while Cray and Ershin just can't use Magic worth shit. 

This dungeon is pretty straight forward.  Nina and Ryu do their things, which is even more important due to Puspools who resist physicals, until hit with a Fire spell.  Cray has Rock Blast now so he can do MT damage like 3 times before running out of AP!  Now yes, I COULD give him Rest except Cray's rest sucks, since its based off Wisdom (Nina heals like 7 AP, which is 2 more Severs Cray heals like 2, which is half a Rock Blast...that "2" may be an overestimate too.)  Cray does allow for Ryu to make the Eruption combo with him which sometimes does more MT damage than Firewind due to the whole combo being MT.  This is enough to make him better than Ershin, but not enough to make him actually good, as again, his AP just doesn't let you do this.  Furthermore, Firewind isn't that far behind him, so efficiency wins the day.

The Forest and Underground passage have enemies who can survive Firewind, so hey, Ershin and Cray now kind of matters.  Since they really don't survive without enough HP to survive a follow up physical from either, Cray is just better due to the fact that Cray reliably hits things, Ershin does not.  This combined with the Rock Blast thing mentioned above really solidify Cray as #3. 

As a fun fact, Ryu got the Moon Sword here, making Cray look REALLY bad cause now his physical just dominates everyone on ST damage.  Flipside, I don't consider that 100% standard.  It doesn't really change anything though, as the only really durable enemy is Puspools who resist physicals until hit with a Fire move, which you'll take out with Firewind anyway, and there's no real bosses at this point.

For the boss...ok, this is the first time Nina comes off as non-special.  The Boss is weak to Fire, so Aura Ryu and Cray using Flame Strike do a lot of damage.  Ershin doesn't have her Fire elemental weapon yet, so she's lagging.   The 3rd character basically exists to throw apples at the thing.  If Cray runs out of AP (which is possible), Nina can use Plateau to do some decent damage as a replacement of course.

For skills, Cray gets Snooze, which lets him basically trade away his entire usefulness for a fight to restore some AP!  It does combo with Rest so he can heal like 4 AP (enough for a Rock Blast) so that's something.  I also got Shadow Walk!!! ...on NIna.  Uh, yeah, going to be changing that to someone else at some point...probably Ryu, since well, he just got a 2 hit Weapon (!!!), and actually has the AP and Strength combination to make SOME use of it.  Shadowwalk is also a pain in the ass to get, so I won't be factoring it in too heavily for character use at this point, especially since its a little too expensive for anything outside of boss fights (Ryu has like 40 AP, the move costs 12.)


Basement
1. Nina
2. Ryu
3. Cray
4. Ershin

Not much has changed here; enemies do have some evasion making Nina's magic matter that much more (...cause she already wasn't clear MVP) but yeah.  You can lump this with the above if you want too.

Kahn
1. Nina
2. Ryu
3. Cray
4. Ershin

Ah, yes, Kahn, BoF4's answer to the likes of Gilgamesh.  He deserves his own section CAUSE I SAID SO.  Anyway, Kahn uses Focus which I quickly get Cray to learn; having more than 3 PCs means its very easy to get characters to learn specific skills now, since I can target the back row with my other 2 PCs causing them to skip turns while only one person Guards.  So Cray learns Focus, and this is how I intend to use him in Boss Fights from here on in, cause really, there's much he's good for otherwise (especially when I get Scias):

Use Focus.  Shove in back row for 3 turns, bring him out, do some big physical damage.  Repeat.  I might toss in Last Resort in the mix once that's available but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Anyway, Kahn has a little gimmick in that he mocks all physical damage.  Well guess what?  Cray and Ershin just went from bad to awful.  Cray as such uses Focus then jumps in Back Row cause that'll let him do 650~ damage with his physical.  Ryu goes Aura, and uses Hwa after Nina uses PLateau for an Eruption combo, which does SLIGHTLY MORE than casting the spells individually...and notably more than physical damage.  Nina's Plateau is of course awesome doing like twice as much as what Ryu is doing and 3x as much as what Ershin and Cray do.  Kahn himself, however, is so manly, he mocks all this to the point where he forfeits the fight...LIKE A MAN!!!


Marlock stuff doesn't have noteworthy gameplay.  If you twist my arm enough, just go with Ryu > Cray > Ershin cause Ryu's Scramasax (a 2 hit weapon) makes him just better than the other two by a lot, and Cray at least has Rockblast for MT damage, Ershin sucks.  Now, ONTO A DUNGEON THAT MATTERS!

Tower of Warping To The 2nd Continent

1. Nina
2. Ershin
3. Ryu
4. Cray


No, that's not a mistake; Ershin is actually the #2 character here.  For a while, I was considering her as #1.  See, Gongheads are the majority of what you fight here.  They have enough HP to survive Firewind, but Ershin with Raptor Claws OHKOs them easily enough due to hitting weakness.  Gongheads seem to resist Melee (but not Ranged), and despite being weak to Wind Magic, Nina's sever is disappointing (let alone Ryu's Eddy.)  So Ershin seems like the best character, could it be? Finally a moment where Nina isn't #1?  Let alone ousted by Ershin of all people?  This is an unprecedented mo-...

*Nina learns Cyclone*

...nevermind.  Yeah, Nina reaches level 14 in this dungeon and sort of just goes from "MVP" to "Ridiculously dominant."  She's now doing a fuck ton more than every other character in this dungeon, LET ALONE MT, and she doesn't even need Ryu to open now, since Cyclone is naturally MT.  It costs 6 AP, but Nina has over 60, and she has Rest, so she's not in any sort of AP demands.  Ryu vs. Cray here...well, Cray's physical is actually comparable to Ryu's Eddy, and can be done with no AP, so I was considering putting Ryu on the bottom, but Cray's edge is too minor for me to care here, and a different thing worked as a tiebreak.

Ymechaf.  Yes, an ACTUAL BOSS.  Anyway, Ryu and Ershin can do a reliable combo with Wild Swing -> Wild Shot to insure he turns around.  Nina...is actually not too good here, cause he resists Magic, though she still has Shadow Walk so for shits I toss that at him once!  Cray uses Focus, and sits in back row twiddling his thumbs, coming out only once he's ready.  On hindsight, I probably should have had Nina and Ershin combo together, using something like Blind and Wild Shot, and Ryu then hit the Seal on his backside cause Aura + Scramasax is a nice big 700 damage but whatever.  Ymechaf is hard to care about things beyond that cause its about abusing his gimmick.  Ryu is just a lot better than Cray here cause of Aura, and it was more notable than than Cray vs. Gongheads.  Furthermore, Ryu's better against the Thieves that appear occasionally, and the Armors too.  SO yeah, he gets higher than Cray.


Aqueducts
1. Nina
2. Ryu
3. Cray
4. Ershin

Back to normal stuff.  Nina with Cyclone is broken, and no one really compares.  I get Icicle from a Goo Count...on Ryu, not Nina, as before getting it, I realized Nina does NOT need Icicle.  Plateau is good ST damage (and cheaper) and Cyclone is her primary offense, Icicle on Ryu helps elemental diversity.  By giving Ryu Icicle, I now get an exceedingly nasty MT combo in Cyclone -> Lightning, which does like 1100 damage to all enemies.  So the Ryu/Nina 1-2 Punch is back, though reversed order.  This actually matters as while Nina is pretty much insured to always go right after whoever she's comboing with, Ryu is not, and can be interrupted by enemies.  And again, Nina gets more credit cause its her using a unique skill making this combo vs. Ryu using a Generic skill.  Ryu is easily the best user of Icicle of the 3 others of course since, well, he has an actual AP score that doesn't embarrass itself, and his Wisdom is, sadly, 50% higher than Cray and Ershin's. 
Other combos available now also include Storm from Icicle -> Rock Blast for Ryu -> Cray which is better than you'd think, but still not good.  I can also use Icicle -> Plateau for a Tempest combo which is hits about as hard as Lightning, just only the 2nd half is MT, so its worst on groups, but its a little cheaper, so good against, say, Goo Counts, who have enough HP to survive individual spells, but come with weaklings, so the two combined wipe them out.  I can also do Icicle -> Rock Blast -> Plateau for a Storm into Tempest combo, which would be good if Cray's AP didn't suck.

The AP sucking really annoys me actually on Cray and Ershin cause a lot of versatile options exist if I hand Eddy to one of them, allowing me to add Jolt a Firewind in between Burn -> Simoon for extra MT damage there.  Also would let Nina do more damage on Cyclone if I did Eddy -> Cyclone -> Icicle.  Yeah, on Hindsight that could have been handy for the Forest to get more OHKOs, as I COULD have given Burn to Cray or Ershin, and kept Ryu with Eddy, but in the grand scheme of things, not worth it, and really, it wouldn't have done much other than to say "Yes, Nina's still the best, and yes, Ryu's still #2." there

AND SO ENDS CHAPTER 1!!!

And naturally, we go onto Chapter 2 so lets get this over with and such!

Wychwood
1. Nina
2. Ryu
3. Scias
4. Ershin

Ok, first off, lets get some general shenanigans out of the way.  Scias joins, Cray leaves.  Scias is, by far, the best physical PC we have at this point, for one reason: Jang'Do.  This is a 2 hit weapon with power on par with 1 Hit weapons gotten in Chap 1.  The Kaltzbager we can buy now is a little stronger, but nowhere near enough to make up for this.  Back this up with a Non-Fail Strength score (roughly on par with Ryu), and good speed, and Scias can do decent damage for free, and he has Shining Blade if I ever need an (expensive) "DIE NOW" move to an enemy, as its basically another Shadow Walk.  Furthermore, Scias has an ACTUAL AP SCORE.  Its worse than Ryu, sure, but it doesn't embarrass itself the way Cray and Ershin does, and Frost costs half of Rock Blast, so Scias can be used as a combo PC if need be.  Also, he has healing.  Needless to say, Scias is a notably better PC than Cray was. 

So why is he #3?  Well, this entire section of the game can be summed up as "AP is the only stat that matters."  No, I mean it, that's true.  You fight mostly Nut-enemies during this section, and they're high evade, low HP enemies who despise magic.  So in short, AP is all that matters.

The only other enemy we fight are Wyds.  These trees are weak to Earth,a nd if hit with Fire, they become Firewyds, who are Weak to Water, but Immune fire.  This means Fire -> Wind combos are basically useless for screen clearing though good if you want to fight Firewyds for whatever reason (I THINK they give slightly more EXP.)  Nina's Plateau will one shot a Wyd, Cyclone 2HKOs both forms.  Ryu or Scias leading into Plateau with a Water spell (Icicle and Frost respectively) can let Nina get MT Earth damage which will wipe out Wyds effortlessly.  Firewyds?  Well, since HP damage carries over between forms, just about any decent damage you hurl at them kills them; hitting them with Water shifts them back, but since Water damage hits a 2x weakness on them, they'll probably die from the attack. 

As you'd expect, with a competent 3rd Party Member in my team, Ershin has gone from "technically worst" to "practically useless."  The only thing she has going for her is tanking (which I don't need) and Cover Fire, which requires me NOT using her.  Well, ok, she has better free damage than NIna, but seeing as Nina's AP resources are deep, the Rest ability exists, and this section gives me plenty of opportunities to camp out, I'm not really caring.

Granted, part of this dungeon does remove Nina from the team, requiring me to use Ershin.  Thing is, this just illustrates how useless she is.  Ryu and Scias are capable of keeping things together while Nina isn't around, so her lack of presence isn't too bad, but Ershin still sits around and is useless.


For skills, I give Scias Eddy cause it lets him combo with Ryu's Burn and Icicle, adding them as a potential pairing if Nina can't do something (like, say, she's casting Rest to restore her own AP or something.)  Ryu gets Double Blow which works for increasing his damage with Kaltzbager by about 20% for 2 AP (Shadow Walk is way to expensive to use consistently), though this skill screams "GIVE TO CRAY!" but he's not an option right now.  Also, Scias starts under Rwolf as well, just to give him that immediate AP push...for all that it won't last long.

Also, worth noting  the Scramasax's low attack actually stands out here, so Ryu actually prefers against some enemies to use the Kaltzbager.  In fact, Double Blow Kaltbager does more than normal hitting Scramasax (due to the way Multi-hit attacks work in this game, having low attack makes Double Blow FAIL), hence why Ryu's using a single hit weapon for once.


Kahn: The Manliness Returns
1. Scias
2. Nina
3. Ryu
4. Ershin

Ah, yes, Kahn returns, in all his glory, now sporting Tiger Fist which he can use ALL OF ONCE!  Anyway, remember my hype for Scias as a physical fighter?  It comes in handy here.  Shining Blade's damage is absurd,m to the point where even Shadow Walk Ryu in Aura form is massively envious.  He does the lionshare of damage this fight.  Nina is Nina and does her stuff, and Ryu is basically Scias-lite who needs to sacrifice his first turn to do the same kind of damage to transform, or just kind of suck.  Ershin...is completely useless. 

After a MANLY REMATCH with A MAN!!!, we get our 3rd Master, Una.  At this point, I put Ryu under Stohl, and Scias under Una.  Scias' physical damage is even more ridiculous now, to the point where he does practically double Ryu's.  His AP is going to take a hit, and while Mage!Scias is not actually a bad idea, he's definitely better being used for his physical side.  Ryu under Stohl?  At this point, I looked at Ryu's AP and realized that with Scias existing, and Ryu's current score, he doesn't need the AP boosting quite as much, and I'd like his strength to pick up again.  On the other hand, I don't want to lose too much AP either, which Una rapes.  Furthermore, of the 4 characters likely to be used often in randoms, Ryu is the only one who is going to have speed issues which can mess up combos, so I figure Stohl can help alleviate those some, while keeping a good balance of Strength and AP for Ryu (he's neutral on both.)  Scias gets Super Combo for noteworthy skills, which will probably never see any real use on him thanks to Shining Blade, and thus I'll be transferring it to Cray when I get the chance.


Golden Plains is a Ryu Solo, so that's a huge "who cares" moment for these purposes.  So onto...

Mt. Glom
1. Nina
2. Scias
3. Ryu
4. Ershin

As you'd expect, Ershin is useless, so not going to get into THAT again.  Nina is...well, Nina.  She does her thing, and does it well.  This dungeon as you'd expect is filled with Water weak enemies, so Ryu's Icicle and Scias' Frost are both handy, especially for combos.  Nina opening with Cyclone pretty much insures deaths to Firewyds and Drakes in this dungeon.  Sometimes, though, we get formations with Firewyds and Wyds...cue Nina's Tempest combo (Water Spell -> Plateau), which pretty much cleans every single enemy formation here, AND costs less than Cyclone.  I don't think I really have to get into why Nina is MVP again,  anymore than "Combo Magic is awesome, Nina is damned good at that!"

So Scias vs. Ryu?  Well, Ryu has Icicle and more AP to use it with, so that's a plus.  Flipside, Scias' Frost is generally enough in any combo that the power difference is meaningless.  IOWs, Jolt following Nina's Cyclone is enough for a follow up KO on Drakes, and Tempest pretty much OHKOs everything anyway, so Frost's damage is meaningless.  With this in mind, Scias now actually has the superior resources, give Frost (which can't be shared remember) costs 2 AP from Scias' 30~ vs. Ryu's Icicle at 4 AP from his 50~.  Tack on Scias having superior speed leading to less combo screw up potential, and his absurd physical damage edge, seems pretty clear whose the superior character.  Even in a Nina-less Lightning combo (Eddy -> Icicle), Scias is casting 2 AP for Eddy while Ryu using 4 AP for Icicle.  True, we could swap it around, but I find that counter-productive seeing as Scias already has Water element covered, allowing for more flexibility in the team as a whole if he gets Wind and Ryu gets the Water spell.


So...the "save the Fairy" section is next...hypothetically.  Thing is, this section requires 5 TRIVIALLY JOKE LEVEL FIGHTS followed by a Not Competent Enough To Get His Own Section Boss in Fantam.  For Fantam, its basically Scias > Ryu > Nina > Ershin cause Scias kicks ass on ST damage, Fantam resists Magic so Nina is actually not that effective here, but more so than Ershin cause she can heal.

Ludia and Shrine
1. Nina
2. Scias
3. Ryu
4. Cray
5. Ershin

Cray Rejoins mid Ludia, which is too short to realistically give its own section.  Cray gets Double Blow and Super Combo, and gets mastered under Una so he can make use of his high strength and the Wild willpower.  The end result?  He still sucks cause Double Blow ends up still sucking even with his stats and Super combo is too expensive to use outside of bosses.  Cray still however has Rock Blast and now higher attack than Ershin so there's really no question about him being #4.  Ershin is just that bad.

Nina...is Nina, no need to go into more details here.  Really, whenever Nina is #1, assume the usual stuff unless I specify otherwise (which I may have to after Ursula joins!)  The random encounters in this area are either Nuts who die to really anything that hits them short of Nina's physical, or small groupings...which basically means "Nina uses Cyclone on Nuts" and we move on.  For non-nuts...well...Scias' Ice Blast is stronger than Ryu's Icicle, and he has a much better physical, so yeah, wins Tie-break based on that.

Ahm Fen
1. Nina
2. Ryu
3. Scias
4. Cray
5. Ershin

Cray and Ershin are unchanged from before, as is Nina.  Enemies here don't get slaughtered by Cyclone in groups, so now suddenly stuff like combos and what not matter!  Thing is, Cyclone knocks enemies down to "low enough that just about anything kills."  Ryu has slightly better durability, more AP and in practice, his physical is equal...so yeah, he wins tiebreak based on that.  Realistically, the difference is a huge "who cares" so consider them effectively equal in the grand scheme of things.  So really its more like Nina > Ryu =~ Scias > Cray > Ershin.


Kasq Woods
1. Nina
2t. Ryu
2t. Scias
4. Cray
5. Ershin

This is an interesting dungeon, because of Bilboa's.  They're durable due to high HP, and Nina for once isn't slaughtering them, and even if we do a 3 way combo of Cyclone -> Lightning -> Lightning, they still live.  However, they do tend to die to a decent subsequent physical by Ryu, Scias and Cray if they use Last resort, which they often do.  As a result, for once Nina doesn't feel overpowered...but she's still pretty much the best because she's integral for that opening turn, where as Ryu and Scias are interchange-able.  Similarly, Cray, while in his usual #4 slot, doesn't feel worthless.  He's actually good for APless damage, and has gotten a weapon upgrade in Wyndia that lets Double Blow not suck.  Oh yeah, should note Scias just got the Biter, so now his ST damage is even more ridiculous.  Ryu has more AP.  Its...really too close to care who is higher, so I just decided to give them a tie.  Generally turns will go Nina uses some big MT damage combo with Ryu or Scias, the 3rd character will do...whatever, not largely relevant, probably finish off a Bilboa, then the following turn, the 3 guys will all attack and finish the fight.
Ershin is, as expected, completely useless and mostly there for Cover Fire, not much else.  The other enemies here consist of more nuts (aka OHKO bait) and these new Birds that are uneventful.  Bilboas at least can do some nasty damage if they attack after Last Resort and are durable enoguh to care; the Birds tend to explode to any decent combo magic.

Underneath Wyndia and P'ung Tap

1. Nina
2. Ryu
3. Cray
4. Ershin

I'm...not really going to waste my time here.  Why?  Because these entire dungeons are just fighting enemies we're already fought...from previous dungeons.  There's nothing eventful here other than that I guess ZombieDr's are new guys except they love to KILL THEIR OWN ALLIES and the Devil enemies are just "Nina OHKOs, move on."  Its a very boring 2 dungeons, with the only noteworthy thing being "You don't have Scias" which is hard to care about.  Maybe if they removed Nina, I'd be more "oooh, a dungeon where I have to care about my ST damage a lot!" but no, Scias for all his worth, is relatively expendable.


Snowy Mountains of Fillerness
1. Nina
2. Ryu
3. Scias
4. Cray
5. Ershin

In short, the usual.  Nina and Ryu butcher things, Nina being the more important part of the combo.  Ryu has more AP than Scias thus tends to compliment Nina better, hence wins the tiebreak there.  Cray is just better than Ershin at like everything.

Deis' dreams are irrelevant.  The enemies really suck there given they have AWESOME SKILLSETS...but no AP to use them.  You can heal their AP and get some skills, Ebon Fire being the only one of note, but I didn't bother, mostly cause I either have the good ones, or in Ebon Fire's case, much larger hassle than its worth and you can easily pick it up in Fou-lu's arc right after.  I might as well point out that Fou-lu picks up Blitz, which I toyed with a bit and decided really sucks, so no one uses it, and Ebon Fire, which he got in his 2nd part during this arc, so it doesn't see much use due to being an ST Spell that doesn't combo well.  It goes to Nina, of course.

Yorae Shrine Place
1. Nina
2. Scias
3. Ryu
4. Cray

Nina is Nina.  However, she doesn't OHKO things here with Ryu's help, so Scias joins in to help out and finishes them off.  Scias' ST damage matters cause you fight enemies in groups of two often.  His physical if he crits can OHKO an enemy, and he has Shining Blade; Ryu's Shadow Walk doesn't reliably OHKO enemies here regardless of weapon, so the AP edge doesn't win him favors here.  Furthermore, Scias' Ice Blast exists, which does a lot more than Ryu's Icicle, despite lower Wisdom.  Bots here are interesting as hitting them with a combo raises their EXP and lets them potentially drop Aurums for more skill changing, so there is a reason to leave them live.  Cray, of course, is just kind of meh, and exists to be tossed in on turns I don't feel like expending AP.

Journey to Hidden Village
1. Nina
2. Ryu
3. Scias
4. Cray

In short, Ryu+Nina using Simoon is back to OHKOing stuff, though sometimes random variance says otherwise.  Scias following up with Eddy (which becomes Firewind) will kill them naturally, so no big deal.  I could probably also do Cyclone -> Lightning -> Jolt, but that costs more AP, and since it leads with Nina, higher chance of screwing up. 
Nina's Ebon Fire I toyed with here, by which I mean I cast it twice.  It does 850~ damage, which is decent ST damage, but nothing special.  Yeah, unlikely to see much use since Ryu and Scias do a lot more on ST, and Cray can do similar, but hey, its reliable on accuracy or something!

And so we come to the end of Chapter 2.  Things get a little more interesting here for a number of reasons.  First off, Ershin comes back and will start to get Non-suck qualities, so she may finally work her way out of that last slot!  2ndly, Ryu starts getting summons and more Dragons, so he's a notably better Boss Fighter than before, as much as that matters.  Furthermore, Ryu also gets the Flame Sword now, which is a MUCH stronger weapon than anything he's had at this point, being 2 hits and on par with Scias' biter, so suddenly he's competing with Scias better.  Note that at this point, the Firangi will be available via fishing soon, and both can use it, which is a notable upgrade in offense on both.    To branch from that, Cray also can get a huge weapon upgrade in the Flail (and I'll probably get it), which is 2 hits and well, makes his ST offense actually something commendable rather than "Scias Wannabe."  So yeah, lots of improvements on Non-Nina characters!
But best of all, we got our last PC: Ursula.  Her existence alone is going to shift some things around since...well...if you've played the game, you know what she's like!  I believe all 6 characters at this point never leave, so there won't be any more awkward blank slots and what not.  The latter half should be a little more interesting than the first half for rankings if only because of Ursula if you ask me!

[Meeplelard]

Useless Filler Dungeon Spam
1. Nina
2. Ursula
3. Ryu
4. Scias
5. Cray
6. Ershin

So...first off, I do a lot of little optional odds and ends.  That is after the first dungeon which is too pointless to care about!  Basically, I get a bunch of Master Skills, do some fishing (but gain nothing significant yet cause Black Bass aren't available quite yet to get Flail and Firangi), alter skills a lot, what have you.  I try Shadow Walk with Ursula a bit only to learn that it functions in a way that hinders its potential Brokeness, sadly.  Basically, one enemy is hit with the Critical damage, and the rest are hit with Normal damage.  Disappointed, I eventually give Shadow Walk back to Ryu so he can make use of it with his good AP and Dragon Forms.

I do however discover the potential fun of Elemental Strikes on Ursula as if she can hit weakness, that's a crap load of damage for only 2 AP!  The downside?  Her bad accuracy kicks in so its not as reliable, but I for 2 AP, its pretty bad ass.  Of course, that's kind of meaningless as Ursula is, as I said before, the "Best Friend" for Nina.  She starts off with Rock Black (level 1 Earth), Fire Blast (Level 2 Fire) and Cyclone (level 2 Wind), all MT spells.  Cyclone and Fire Blast can combo with Nina's Cyclone, and both pretty much kill enemies in conjunction (Cyclone -> Cyclone gives the usual slight damage boost, Fire Blast -> Simoon is a typical Fire Wind combo except BOTH SIDES ARE MT.)  Oh yeah, Ursula has an AP score; its not amazing right now, but its enough to last me, and again, MT Physicals means she can conserve it better for randoms than anyone.  Basically, Ursula kicks ass.

Why isn't she #1?  Cause Nina is every bit as important to the combination as Ursula is, and Nina has more AP, Healing, and better speed.  She also just got Magic Ball and FLame Pillar so she has actual ST damage!  Magic Ball is a Melee move running off Wisdom costing 5 AP that does surprisingly good damage (about 1k)  and thus making Nina actually able to join in on Melee combos, so it works as a Pre-Oracle spell for NIna.  Flame Pillar...is a level 3 Fire Spell.  Its only ST mind you, so its not THAT great...except that it can be used to create Ragnarok (Earth/Fire level 3) which is Mt and absolutely ruthless now.  So we have Nina's AP and Wisdom running a level 3 Combo spell, which is just DEATH TO EVERYTHING at this point.  It can be initiated either by Ursula's Rock Blast, Cray's Rock Blast, or the Plateau skill, which I recently shifted to Ryu to allow him some Combo Flexibility.  Why Ryu?  Cause he has more AP than any Non-Nina character, so its added flexibility.
Oh yeah, enemies are weak to fire in the next few areas, so things just kind of explode (and Flame Strike is the only elemental Strike I have right now, go figure.)

With exception of healing, Ryu is now better than Scias in all ways that matter.  Flame Sword makes Ryu as good a physical damage dealer, and he has over twice the AP.  Furthermore, remember that FIre weakness I just noted?  Ryu's Flame Sword is naturally Fire Elemental, so it just seals the deal.  It doesn't help Scias that his only element, Water, is resisted here, so he can't even use the Natural Spell argument, and for a Plateau user to substitute in for Ursula's Rock Blasts, Ryu's just clearly better due to the AP.  Scias is sort of Ryu-lite here with healing.  He's not bad, but clearly non-essential.
Ryu gets a bunch of Summons which see no use, and JUST got Wyvern and upgraded to Weyr immediately, Weyr being very similar to Kaiser in stat boosts outside of HP...this would be more awesome if we were fighting ACTUAL BOSSES anytime between now and like the last 20% of the game (we have like one boss until Won-Qu, IIRC.)

Cray has ST damage and can open up into a Ragnarok Combo.  That's...more than what Ershin has.  Ershin got Blizzard but not only is it expensive, enemies resist it, so she's still useless.  To her credit, I just got the Lightning, which raises her speed to Nina levels.

For Masters?  Ursula gets Njomo since AP and Speed is good for her, HP is a huge "whatever."  Ershin got Njomo, then went to Marlock cause I really want her to gain AP, and Lightning means she can take a speed hit, HP offsets the defense, her Physical is a lost cause anyway, and she can take a few Wisdom hits now given all the Rwolf levels.  Ryu gets Njomo cause more AP w/out sacrificing anything significant (-8 HP is kind of minor), and +2 speed doesn't hurt for keeping up with Nina/Ursula.  Nina stays on Rwolf for more AP, Cray and Scias on Una for more physical beat downs.

And yes, I already did Snooze + Rest + Vitalize for a quick 37 hit combo to get all of Rwolf's skills.  This should open up Kyrik as a master when he's available too.  I did for fun see how much damage I could do with Super COmbo on a Trean.  Its 15k!  That'll raise once I get Might (which I got like 3 fights later -_-), Warshout, Mega Phone, and a few more levels.  Will I kill a Trean and get Cray's Nunchaku?  NO CLUE!

A SAILOR IS MAN'S MAN, also Dolphins
1. Ryu
2. Scias
3. Nina
4. Cray
5. Ershin
6. Ursula

This is the most epic fight ever!  Ryu has recently gotten an actual Dragon form and I upgraded it to Weyr immediately, so its only slightly worse than Kaiser on stats, but actually controllable, so the SHADOWWALK SPAMS COMMENCE!  He's doing ridiculous damage as a result.  Furthermore, Weyr has higher defense than kaiser which is important cause KAHN USES MASSIVE PHYSICALS!  It also has Hwa'Jeh so I can hurl Super Novas at Kahn with an Earth -> Earth/Fire -> Hwa'jeh combo.  Best at this point is like Ershin's Quake -> Nina's Ragnarok (from Flame Pillar) -> Super Nova.  I forget which does move, but point is, Ryu is Kahn's bane!

Scias has healing and big ST damage...he's in his element here, just Ryu got a massive upgrade and his weapon is no worse.  Nina's Flame Pillar and Ragnarok do disgusting damage, and she can heal.  The healing is majorly important, cause, well, KAHN FALCON PUNCHES YOU! Also has other stuff that you should probably be afraid of...its too painful to talk about.
Cray's a tank, and does good damage with Super combo...that's worth something I guess.  Ursula the worst here due to low ST damage and being frail; Ershin's Quake > her Rock Blast and is a tank, and can be used for Super Nova combos as a result. 

With this strategy, I barely pull through! Hardest fight in the game over, we now move onto less important things...


The Cove
1. Nina
2. Ursula
3. Ryu
4. Ershin
5. Scias
6. Cray

No, that's not a typo; Ershin is #4 above Scias.  Ershin would be higher than Ryu, but its level dependent here.  Mid Dungeon, Ershin learned Quake, which lets her do some actual really good damage on enemies here (its equal to Blizzard, just things are not resisting it, and I think one enemy is even weak), just its a bit expensive (which is meaningless if you let the fight go on 2 turns anyway, as the CP gain is enough for a full casting), and it compliments Flame Pillar.  Ursula's got MT Flame Strike which is cheap, effective damage on enemies here, and Fireblast for the MT openner into Nina's Simoon, or alternatively, Rock Blast into Flame Pillar for Ragnarok which does absolutely sick damage beyond reason.  The AP cost would matter if, you know, Nina didn't have ridiculous AP.  Ryu's good ST damage as always, and mostly there for clean up work, and Flame Sword hits a weakness as well.  Scias is Ryu w/ less AP and no Flame Sword option, and Cray...has issues doing anything significant.

The boss is msotly Ryu going Weyr and kicking ass.  Scias can provide good ST damage with Shining Blade, Nina w/ one of the other females can wipe out the bosses support in combos, and we're all good.  This is also the LAST BOSS WE"RE GOING TO FACE FOR A DAMN LONG TIME.

Worth noting I have changed masters around quite a bit after here, and have gotten the Firangi for Ryu and Scias, as well as the Flail for Cray.  Cray's ST damage kind of spikes tremendously, while Ryu and Scias have mild boosts.  Ursula now can do MT Fire damage for no MP cost with her weapon upgrade, and has an ST damage option with a +1 weapon though that won't see much use due to Ursula being about crowd control (until she learns Inferno anyway.)  Flame Strike remains on her mostly in case I want to combo.

For masters, I put Ershin under Gyosil; its 1 less AP than Marlock, but doesn't lower all her other stats, so I figure its worth the trade off.  I got a few more armors, but the important ones are the speed boosting things, letting her be either Nina level, Ursula level, or 2nd worst at will, which is handy for Speed Manipulation.  Ryu's still under Njomo just cause the stats are worth it for him while not actually hurting any of the other ones he cares about.  Cray goes under Kyrik cause Kyrik is basically the upgrade of Una in that regard (though he nerfs Speed, but Cray is a lost cause in that regard, being similar to Ershin but without the awesome armors), I keep Scias under Una a little while longer for Wild, then decide its not worth it and put him under Kyrik.  I also get all of Kyrik's skills ASAP, not that any of them are useful outside of MAYBE Cleave, which goes to Cray so he can get MT damage off his high strength (this also means he has a use for his strong Single hit Weapons)...I don't suspect it'll see much use anyway.  Ursula is under Lyta, whose just like Rwolf except lowers Defense instead of Strength.  Given Ursula actually cares about her physical, its a winning trade for her (for Nina, meanwhile, its the other way around.)  Also means I don't have to worry about Haste screwing up combo potential.


Jungle
1. Nina
2. Ursula
3. Ershin
4. Ryu
5. Scias
6. Cray

...why are Fire Ants WEAK to Fire?  No, really, I figured this would be a scenario that said "try using a different combo moron!" making me care that Ursula had Cyclone but it didn't.  Instead it just said more "Nina and Ursula kick ass."  Ershin's good for the Quake thing still, and Transfer just got learned in the previous dungeon so if need be, I can use that to restore 20 AP to Ershin at Nina's expect; combo usage can boost that to about 30 with Rest and Snooze in the mix.  Nina can use those 2 whiel casting Transfer on herself to get a net gain of 30 AP.  With all that said, I rarely ever do that.  Oh yeah, and again, if I ever draw the fight out longer than a single turn, Ershin gets a free Quake in the mix.  Ershin would be closer in running with Ursula truth be told, but Ursula's in no real danger of running out of resources due to Fireblast and Rock Blast (for Ragnarok combos) being cheap, and Nina typically killing things with SImoon/Ragnarok ANYWAY, so the opening damage exists mostly to make Nina's damage better, so its the old "AP matters most" case.  Ryu still has Plateu to allow Nina to use Ragnarok, as well as make Ursula's Fireblast become the level 2 Fire/Earth combo, as well as boosting Ershin's Quake though I don't use it much mostly cause I forget he has it, as really, yo only need Ursula/Ershin action -> Nina action to bust through things.  Ursula's physical is knid of useless here, for all that she doesn't need it, due to Fire Ant's resisting it.  The bird enemies here, meanwhile are a reason to use Ursula's Cyclone...if you for whatever reason don't want to use Nina's. 

Ryu vs. Scias is again, an AP thing, and Ryu still has the Flame Sword for the fire elemental option.  Scias can heal, but that's more a technical advantage.  Overall, Ryu's just better at clean up work.  Furthermore, I have Fairy Breath so Ryu can use that to he-*bonus healing from a healing combo heals more than the main healing of Fairy Breath*-...umm...er...yeah, forget I said that!
Ok, seriously, Fairy Breath IS a good move...if built up.  To build up Fairy Attacks actually requires using them to raise the Fairy Troop levels.  This is part of why some fights take maybe two turns, as sometimes I'm just using an extra turn for the sake of Fairy Building (doesn't happen often; maybe once every 10 fights or something).  That and sometimes combo opportunities fail and some enemies can actually survive 2 MT spells that aren't in combo cause they're pricks. 

Cray...has nothing going for him really.  He's a slower Scias with less AP, no Shining Blade (COward's Way can give him a cheap damage boost, overall not worth it), lower counter rate, and no healing.  No shock he's LVP.


I learn Douse at this point, which lets us able to kill Treans.  Before I could kill a Trunked by giving Ryu Focus, Last Resort, casting lots of Might and Protect spells on him after he transforms into Weyr (Kaiser's still Berserk), and Shadow Walking, with 2 Megaphones tossed in to get defense as low as possible, but I would fall just short of killing a Trean even with Super Combo.  Douse fixes that as it adds Fire Weakness.  Either you could use a Fire into Physical combo, making a Fire Elemental Physical with the Firangi, which has combo risk failures but you need less skill with Super COmbo to pull it off (and less chance of Random Variance screwing you over IF you get past the combo aspect), or equipping Flame Sword and being good enough at Super Combo.

After killing 2 Treans and not getting a Nunchaku, I say fuck it and move on.  Why would I want a Nunchaku when I already have Flail (his only +1 hit weapon)?  Was thinking that MAYBE with a 144 attack weapon on Cray, his Cleave could do significant damage and he could do something in randoms, but seeing as the Drop Rate is worse than I thought (even with Charm), I said screw it.  Yeah, don't expect Cray to move from that #6 spot from here on in.

Saldine
1. Nina
2. Ursula
3. Ryu
4. Ershin
5. Scias
6. Cray

First off, in the middle of this dungeon I underrate how much Game points is needed for the 2nd evolution and get Behemoth -> Mammoth in an attempt to get Searing Sand for Ursula...I hate myself cause now I can't get Myrmidon -> Knight Later without more Game Points and that's a better dragon form *sigh*  Ah well, now Ursula has MT Earth damage...oh yeah, she ALSO got MT Holy damage from Lyta before, not that it sees much use as of yet, but thought I'd not its existence  Anyway, usual Ursula+Nina kick ass combo works, but some enemies can survive that, so Ryu's clean up work tends to be more useful than Ershin's back up work.  That and I think there are some earth resistant enemies here anyway, so often we're seeing Fireblast->Simoon more often than Some Earth move -> Ragnarok.  Its pretty straight forward stuff.  Scias is mostly theoretical use that is mostly outdone by Ryu, and Cray...is Cray.

Wisdom Seeds became storebought before this dungeon mind, so Ershin's AP issues are notably less prevalent than before.  One Wisdom Seed is almost enough for 3 Ershin spells, so that's something, but it can be a bit of a pain to maintain so its not COMPLETELY gone. 


Shan River
1. Nina
2. Ursula
3. Ryu
4. Ershin
5. Scias
6. Cray

Nina + Ursula = Things die.  Ryu's good clean up work, Ershin's good for fillnig in gaps if I need it, Scias is good for being a 2nd Ryu if I need it, Cray sucks.  Boring filler dungeon is boring.

Around now, I swap Masters around a bit.  I give Scias to Kahn since variety relative to Cray, Valor is a nice 2nd wind, and it doesn't nerf his speed the way Kyrik does, while still giving same Strength boost.  Bigger hinderance to Magic stats though, but given how good Ursula is at it, and how Ershin makes a fine #3 the way I raised her, Scias' Magic is really just delving into the realm lf "Emergency only"

En Jhou
1. Ursula
2. Nina
3. Ershin
4. Ryu
5. Scias
6. Cray

The way enemies are set up here with elemental weaknesses and all that tend to favor Ursula over Nina, and given how little I used healing, I'm not really willing to give Nina that much credit for it.  That, and Ursula can use physical versions if I ever care with her Fire Elemental Weapon.  Ershin's good for back up clean up, Ryu's the usual ST damage, Scias is Ryu-, Cray is Cray.

For how I get to the Dam, I use the Fish Route cause...I don't suck at it, and no point in waiting.  As such, I keep the Flawed Gem and thus still have Mutant form!  Will I ever use that form?  Probably not cause it sucks offensively and is pure novelty, BUT I STILL HAVE IT!


River
1. Ursula
2. Nina
3. Ershin
4. Scias
5. Ryu
6. Cray

Enemies that resist Wind Damage exist here (I think they existed in En Jhou but don't quote me) and by "resist" I mean Absorb.  This makes Ursula flat out our best PC here.  Nina's still got Inferno to follow up from Ursula's Rock Blast if we want a big MT damage move, and Ershin can be used with Quake, though her Blizzard spell is useless as those enemies also absorb Ice damage.  Ryu and Scias do their things, only difference is too little to care, so Scias wins because of Healing, and higher counter rate.  Also he had Tiger Fist for Bolts if they somehow lived.  Bolt enemies would be annoying but Ursula can nuke them pretty fast with Fireblast, or Rock Blast lead into Nina Ragnaroks.  That's another thing; Ursula is using character specific moves, Nina is using generic skills, so Ursula's the more crucial part here...

We finally get the last Dragon and thus, we have controlled Kaiser, as well as Abess, the best Mage master in the game.  Nina and Ershin go under her naturally.  Ursula stays under Lita to continue to boost her Magic proficiency without any Strength penalties.  Nina ALSO decided it'd be cute if she learned Typhoon, the level 3 Wind Spell, in the previous dungeon, so now she's doing insane MT damage WITHOUT combos, provided Wind immunity doesn't exist.  Did Nina this boost?  Of course not, but they gave it to her anyway!

Fou-lu Intro Dungeon Stuff
1. Nina
2. Ershin
3. Ursula
4. Scias
5. Ryu
6. Cray

Ursula's starting to lag a little bit on MT damage due to not getting Inferno yet, though she's still good for setting up Nina.  Ershin edges ahead of her due to Quake -> Ragnarok or Typhoon -> Thunderstorm with Nina being better than like anything else.  Nina of course is Nina and thus just overpowered.  Scias and Cray get their level 3's here.  If Scias was being raised as a Mage, that would be even more significant, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt here, but even under his current build, its more effective than what Ryu has to offer, though, he competes with Ershin's Blizzards, so mostly exists as a second AP pool for Typhoon -> Thunderstorm than anything else (Ershin's CP also means that any fight that lasts more than 2 turns, she can be used turn 2 always and never actually lose AP.)  Cray's ST damage starts to really stand out here with his physical, and its actually not far behind Ryu's Shadowwalk.  The problem is that Ryu would be a lot closer to Cray if he was going a physical route himself, and still is doing more and has plenty of AP to justify it.  Cray's best use here is, truth be told, just being another AP character for Quake -> Ragnarok for Nina/Ershin.  Thing is, his AP sucks, and his Quake isn't that much stronger than Ursula's Rock Blast (...), so its hard to care.  Ryu having better speed just means he's better at getting in and killing things on ST for all that Scias beats both in this regard.  I could see an argument for Ryu being LVP here, mind, but think the fact that Ryu can actually outpace some enemies while Cray cannot matters.

...though thinking on it, I want to say the Zaurus' resisted Water or something and that's why Thunderstorm isn't as good as it could be, but that doesn't change the fact that Scias is faster, stronger, and has healing on Ryu.

Won-qu
1. Ryu
2. Nina
3. Ershin
4. Scias
5. Ursula
6. Cray

Oh look, a boss again!  Gave him his own point because he's competent and what not.  If you want, dd this to the above and use this excuse for "Why Ryu is ranked above Cray."  Anyway,  after turn 1, Ryu is just brutal in this fight if he goes Kaiser or Weyr.  Hwa-jeh or Dragon'd Shadowwalk are just cruel, and Super Nova or Earthbreaker combos are crueller (latter being better since Inferno -> Giga Flare is more to Won-qu than Quake -> Ragnarok.)  Ursula again wants to have learned Inferno, but alas she's lagging for that reason.  Despiet Won-qu's high defense, Scias' Shining Blade is decent damage, and he's a back up healer if Nina ever needs to jump in the back row.  Cray is near useless in this fight.  AP means he can't really be a Shadow Walk character, Super Combo gets reemed by high defense, and the way damage works, his "physical that keeps up with Ryu's Shadowwalk" doesn't keep up here.  Furthermore, to add insult to injury, Won-qu has Sanctuary, which kills Cray's Buffs entirely.

If Ursula gets Inferno BEFORE Won-qu, then her use jumps up to being just behind Nina, as she's doing the same thing here, only Nina has healing which matters more.

Emperor's Tomb
1. Nina
2. Ershin
3. Ursula
4. Scias
5. Ryu
6. Cray

If Ursula learns Inferno, she could wing that #2 slot, but she learned it mid dungeon for me, which means Ershin had half a dungeon of being better, and the other half of being "almost as good" so I gave slot #2 to Ershin.  Nina is Nina; its very hard to take her down.  This dungeon given its right after Won-qu means yo may have some AP issues if you didn't leave the previous area to heal, but given BoF4 has storebought AP healing from Fairies, and a bunch of AP Healing tricks, its not really a big deal, in terms of restoring resources.  A lot of enemies here hate Combo Magic, so there you go.  There's high defense freaks too, though Shadowwalk and Shining Blade are good for getting around them, meaning Cray gets emo.    Ryu is Scias- here.

The Dice?  Well, they're gimmicky.  Nina/Ursula butcher the Physical immune one, Scias skewers the Magic Immune one, Ursula's decent at getting both (especailly the physical immune one), Ryu's a kick ass machine here for all that Revolution can really screw with Dragons, though so long as you don't use breaths it doesn't hinder his offense.  Cray...well, he's good on the magic immune dice, I guess, but Scias and Dragon!Ryu are just so much better, and I'd rather use Nina's Vitalize as a 3rd action.

Ershin picks up her Ultimate Armor, the Chopam's Plate here.  Not nearly as hard to get as you'd think.  Basically just buff a bit on the first 2 turns, including transform Ryu into Kaiser/Weyr, then unload on the next two.  If you can do 10k damage in 2 turns, you're set.  Chopam's plate is a HIGH drop rate, especially after Charm, so I think its fair to say one can get this.  The mass Driver, Ershin's Ultimate, I didn't bother to get because, well, ERSHIN PHYSICALS.  Do I have to explain why not?  Its also a ;pain in the ass (rank 1 steal? EWWWW.)
Ursula also gets the Repeater.  Its hard to say if this counts or not because its a rare drop, BUT several enemies drop it and appear in groups, so you have a lot of chances.  Repeater is an 88 power 2 hit weapon (yes, that's pretty awesome), and significantly raises Ursula's ST physical damage, especially now.  Physicals of course aren't major in this dungeon (though Shadow Walk would make it viable), so its not a big deal here, but it may matter later (probably not though!)


I do some fishing, and probably the last time I'll bother because everything else is "kind of neat but not significant" to get Ursula's Culverin, a 108 powered MT weapon that is +20% accuracy and +5% Crit.  This means I can remove the Artemis Cap from her and give her Titan's Boots for a further damage boost.  She now has Attack almost as high as Cray, and its MT.

I adjust Masters a bit.  Scias goes to Njomo now because he has plenty of attack and would like an AP bonus, and she gives Speed too.  Cray goes to Kahn because the stats Kahn nukes more than Kyrik (AP and wisdom) are not kind of a lost cause for Cray anyway, and Cray doesn't need defense and I really would like a speed boost on him so I do that.  The other 4 stay under the same Masters.

Arbitrary Filler Pathes

Not worth showing characters off here because the enemies suck.  One area is NUTS AND BOLTS spam, meaning "If you have any form of cheap MT damage, you kick ass."  Another is Dragon Fly spam meaning you just hurl fire spells and things die.  The tomb is basically geared to just do a lot of swapping around because enemies keep swapping elements.    And Astana #1 requires fighting complete garbage you fought when you were first there.  There's really no point in discussing things here, other than saying "Ursula is now under Bunyan."

Astana Underground
1. Ursula
2. Nina
3. Ershin
4. Scias
5. Ryu
6. Cray

At this point, Nina's only real edge on Ursula is healing.  Ursula can get big MT damage from comboing after Ershin (Whose damage is now really starting to pick up, and has a significant AP score), but she can also do non-elemental damage shenanigans and do it for free, and its physical.  Ershin is mostly Nina with more elements but no healing and less speed, so losing trade.  Scias' Blizzard > Anything Ryu has at this point, plus he can heal.  Scias' other edges at this point are more determined by what masters he had relative to Ryu, so "he does more damage" is not really fair when Scias has been running nothing but physical masters until recently while Ryu's been more balanced.  Cray...well, his Coward's Way does about as much damage as Ryu's Shadowwalk!  Except he's slow so he can't really outpace anything.  He has Quake, but can fire it off like 3 times before needing AP healing.  Compare this to Ryu who can use stuff like the Fairy moves (Fairy Charge/Attack are both actually strong attacks if the enemy isn't a major tank, and you have built up fairies some, Fairy Breath is like Vitalize- that heals status, making it actually good for Snooze->Rest combos.)

Speaking of Snooze->Rest combos, like a moron I forget to hand Ershin the Dragon Tear until like the final boss, so Ershin is often dicking around asleep at these parts!  doesn't really matter until the final boss when AP concerns start kicking in on fights that last more than like 2 turns, but just noting this now.


After this point, we finally get Oracle from Momo.  Nina now has physical damage...like, really good physical damage.  We're talking "keeps up with Ryu's Shadowwalk" level good.  No, I'm not kidding; Oracle is that bad ass.  on that note, Magic Ball, which I sort of forgot exists, goes to Ershin cause, well, she has the Wisdom to support it and lacks a decent basic physical like Ursula has.


Chedo Ruins
1. Nina
2t. Ershin
2t. Ursula
4. Scias
5. Ryu
6. Cray

The usual stuff applies for Nina, only now with good ST damage.  Ursula vs. Ershin is tough to call.  Ursula's better on her lonesome, but Ershin's more versatile a partner for Nina, being able to go before and after her for level 3 combos, allowing for more speed manipulation.  I'll just say they're equal.  Scias vs. Ryu is the same as before, as is Cray.

A-tur
1. Ryu
2. Nina
3. Ershin
4. Ursula
5. Scias
6. Cray

First off, I'll say this now; Cray is useless in this fight.  Buffs against a boss with Sanctuary = AHAHAAH.  Ryu goes Kaiser turn 1, and then sort of becomes unkillable the rest of the fight and massacres with spamming Dragon Magic (be it Hwajeh, Super Nova, or Earthbreaker, doesn't matter), Ershin's higher HP means she's just better at surviving, for all that Ursula's will helps some, it also means she loses a turn.  Nina having Flame Pillar and Vitalize mean she's very clearly the #2 character, as she keeps non-Ryu characters alive, and when not healing, she can toss Flame Pillar for respectable damage, or alternatively, use Ragnarok or Giga Flame (which leads to Ryu casting Supernova or Earthbreaker respectively) to do significant damage to A-tur; Ershin and Ursula are mostly there to make Nina's damage better.  Scias...is rather effective for a #5 slot, its more "by default."  He's a good character to swap in on a pinch, since his Shining Blade does good damage (which Ryu can follow up with Shadow-walk in Kaiser for even better damage.)  If Kaiser should fall due to whatever (unlikely), Weyr for Ryu is a good back up.  Cray is a huge drop from the other characters.  I suppose giving him Shadowwalk would let him do some solid damage, but he's slow, meaning either everyone goes after A-tur or he screws up combos, and low AP means he can't really spam it.  Scias can do the same thing he can, but lacks his issues, and is more durable in practice since he resists Frost Breath.

In this dungeon, Ryu picks up Palliate or however its spelled, and that + Fairy Breath means he's a make shift healer of sorts.  The ST Healing is as good as Nina's, the MT Healing is as good as Scias'.  So basically, he's pretty much back to that "is Scias with less damage but more AP" thing.


Final Dungeon Shenanigans as a whole, Bosses Not-Included
1. Nina
2. Ursula
3. Ershin
4t. Ryu
4t. Scias
6. Cray

Cray, as usual, just lacks really any purpose.  His damage is good, make no mistake, very good I'd say.  The problems are that they are pure ST, and he's slow, and he's got no variety whatsoever.  His MT damage either sucks a lot, or just vaguely sucks and is expensive, and his buffs are impractical for randoms.

Nina...I might as well go into a bit of depth here.  Typhoon kicks ass, Giga Flame following up from an Inferno from Ursula/Ershin, or Fireblast kicks more ass, as does Ragnarok following from an Ershin Quake (you never use Cray for Quake...)  She heals, which is more important than normal as enemies have notably higher damage here, and her higher AP in a long dungeon like this comes in handy (though you can have a lot of Wisdom Seeds and mitigate this some.  Even if you use AP healing tricks, mind, Nina works best in these tricks, so gets points for ADDING resources in favor of just having them.)  I do get her Ultimate Weapon but really, why do I care when she's running entirely off Wisdom?  Speaking of which, her Oracle is dirt cheap, good ST damage whenever I don't want ST (like, say, casting Charm on enemies in hopes of getting a Slicer! ...and failing ) , and one shots Orochis.  Uh, yeah, Nina's kind of "best at everything, or close enough."  Her durability is her only flaw here, but given the ball-lightning nature of these fights, she's generally not a liability.

Ursula...her Culverin DOuble Blow is rather sick here.  If she can hit a weakness (and she finally learns Frost Strike from Koplum's here!), her damage is even better.  By "sick", I mean "her Double Blow adds more damage than any boost Nina would get from a combo spell."  As in, Double Blow -> Typhoon is stronger than, say, Quake -> Ragnarok.  To say nothing of Double Blow -> Quake -> Ragnarok being > Quake -> Ragnarokx2.  She's a random killing machine really.  She has the Repeater for ST damage if I ever need it, though I never use it due to how rare I need her for ST damage (generally, I use Nina's Oracle, or swap in one of the guys for that), but the option is still there.   

Ershin is a more resource intensive version of Ursula here with higher durability.  Losing trade overall, but she still makes a great 3rd character for butchering randoms.

Ryu vs. Scias is back to the usual thing, but the differences are more stand out here.  Ryu's AP edge, especially since he has Rest, means I can swap him in more readily to Shadowwalk something.  Flipside, Scias doesn't always need Shining Blade to finish off enemies, and has Blizzard if for whatever reason I need a 3rd MT attack.  Ryu has more AP to cast Fairy Breath (which doubles as status healing) or Palliate.  Ryu can nab the Dragon Blade for extra damage on the final boss but honestly not worth it since hurling spells is better against like all bosses here, and Scias' Cleaver is a pain to get.  For the record, I did try for Scias' King's Armor (his ultimate), but said screw it and kept him with Mist Armor.  Not a significant difference overall.
Given a lot of their worth differences rely on masters and what skills you give Ryu (though Ryu is often a very good choice for nearly anything), its hard to put one above the other, so I said screw it and made them equal.


Dragonne
1. Ryu
2. Nina
3. Ursula
4. Ershin
5. Scias
6. Cray

A boss who resists Earth and Physicals, and is weak to Fire *AND* Wind?  Oh come on now, that's just especially insulting to Cray, who has enough issues as is!  Otherwise, the rest speaks for itself; Ryu is a godlike Boss slaying machine, Nina/Ursula/Ershin do their combo magics and lead into Earthbreaker for Ryu to kick more ass as Kaiser, Scias mostly there for emergency healing or something if Nina gets too hurt.  Plus his Shining Blade still does passable damage despite resistance.

Tyrant
1. Ryu
2. Nina
3. Ershin
4. Ursula
5. Scias
6. Cray

Sanctuary Boss with high physical durability = Cray is useless.  This applies to Astral as well, so I won't repeat myself!  For the rest?  HP is damned helpful against pretty much anything Tyrant does, so Kaiser Ryu is an ass kicker, though a bit of a resource hog, but hurling Rest anything before NIna hurls Vitalize is generally a great idea.  Nina's Vitalize for once is struggling to keep up with Boss damage, but using it in a healing combo (meaning "USE REST WITH RYU!") boosts its damage significantly, especially if its a level 3 Healing combo (Snooze, in my case on Ershin, works especially well for extra AP.)   Ershin can hit any of Tyrant's weaknesses, though you will probably stick to Ragnarok or Gigaflame combos as he never resists Fire.  Flipside, his weakness to Fire is only 50%, while to Wind and Earth is 100%, so guessing right could be worth it, and Ershin having that one extra element to hit is nice.  Nina can hit 2 of those elements (Flame Pillar and Typhoon), though she pretty much always should be in Slot #2 for combo magic just to make use of her high Wisdom on the combo spell.  Ryu's hurling either Shadow Walk (if he's following a Scias attack), or Supernova/Earthbreaker.  When in doubt?  Inferno -> Gigaflame -> Earthbreaker, or Infernox2 -> Earthbreaker works as well.
Ursula is Ershin with less AP, and only Inferno to use a level 3.  The Speed edge doesn't matter too much as Ershin can adjust her Armors with Lightning/Light Mail for speed that will usually outpace Tyrant.
Scias...emergency healing and some adequate damage with Shining Blade.  He pulls his weight unlike Cray if I need him, but he's generally someone I don't use.  If I'm using Shining Blade with him, Ryu is following with Shadow Walk.


Astral
1. Nina
2. Ryu
3. Ershin
4. Ursula
5. Scias
6. Cray

...congrats Cray, you continue to fail! *AHEM*
Astral's Opening Soul Rend is one of the few moments you'll use a Dragon Summon, that being the invincible one.  Ryu should be fast enough to outpace Astral.  You do NOT want him to transform on turn 1 or you'll be left with a 1 HP Dragon form against a boss hurling MT damage left and right.  Furthermore, this gives you a breather of a first turn to recover Ryu's AP (probably starving from the Tyrant fight), and get an extra turn to heal everyone on HP.  After that?

Nina is a god send here.  It cannot be stressed enough.  Astral is hurling big MT damage or Soul Rend all over the place; if you're lucky, he'll use Sanctuary or Malefication, and give you a turn to hit him with a full combo, but overall, your turns will often involve Nina casting Healing, or you using a Vitamins or something.  Nina can also hurl Magic at Astral.

Ryu is your offensive power house here, but there's an extra factor here that didn't exist in Tyrant, that being Soul Rend.  Astral can now actually kill off Dragons, and Ryu has no reliable way to heal them.  This means Ryu will be caught in turns without Dragon form on occasion, and need to waste turns and AP to transform into Weyr or Knight.  He loses out to Nina here due to the amount of extra effort needed to maintain him, but he's really good when you can get him going and its hard to hold that against him.

Ershin's variety of elements is meaningless here given Astral has no elemental affinities.  What does matter, however, is her ability to take a god damned hit, compared to Ursula.  Having much higher HP and Chopam's Armor does that.  offensively, she's hurling level 3's and ideally comboing with people.  Also, Ershin can adjust her speed with various armors and possibly make herself slower than Astral.  This is really good with that Ryu thing I mentioned above, as I'd much rather HUman Ryu be hit with Soul Rend than a Dragon, as Human Ryu can be healed via conventional means, Dragon Ryu cannot, and having that many more turns with Ryu under Dragon form is damned handy.

Ursula is, as I implied, Ershin with lower durability.  This isn't bad, but it means she loses a place in the "default team" slot.

Scias is still that "break and use if things get nasty' character.  If I need 2 of the top 4 swapped out (which does happen more frequently than yuo'd think), Scias is there to fill whatever role is needed, if for only one turn.  Again, not bad, but he just feels outclassed, for all that he pulls his weight.

Not bothering with Cray, already eluded to his failure before!


And that, my friends, is BoF4 Balance in a nutshell!

SOON TO COME:
FULL CAST ANALYSIS!!! ...in another post...

[TigerKnee]

Nina being #1 up to now is kind of funny considering how not great she was in 3.

[Meeplelard]

Well, on average, Nina is a good character in the series.  BoF3 Nina was um...er...yeah.  Nina 4 in a sense needed to be not only as good as "The average Nina" but make up for lost ground to make sure the "Average Nina" stays above average!

More seriously, she's easily the best Nina in the series combining essentially the best traits of Nina1 and Nina2. and with better speed than Nina3 (about the only thing she had going for her), combined with making excellent use of the Combo system.  For people who've played this game, I'm sure most were expecting to see Nina on top for a large part of the game, and I'm seriously wondering if there's a point where she'd drop out of top 3 (I can see points where other characters may take that #1 spot, like Ursula for example, but I'm struggling to think of a case where I'd want to use 3 other characters over her.)

[Dark Holy Elf]

My memory of the game is that Nina is moderately difficult to dislodge from #1 even (though as Meeple notes I'm sure it happens time to time). BoF4 is probably less balanced than the previous two games that this has been done for. <.<

I think you might be overhating on Ershin's accuracy (isn't it 90%?) but Ershin does mostly suck anyway and it is a needless disadvantage others don't have.

[Meeplelard]

That's pretty much the point I'm making with Ershin's accuracy.  Her damage edge isn't enough on the others (when she has one) to make a notable difference, but when she misses, its care worthy enough.

Basically, both her and Cray will hit something, do damage.  Ershin's damage is higher, but not by enough to make me care (as they both kill the same enemies, and generally fail on the same things), however Cray's going to hit with his physical, Esrhin is not, so everything else equal, I'd rather go with the lesser 100% accuracy hit over the stronger 90% hit.  Its more "solidifies her place at #4" rather than being a big deal, I just bring it up to further establish why she is where she is (Cray's skillset isn't as much of an edge as it should be due to low AP, and his magic sucking.)

You'll note I DID put Ershin at #2 cause she can OHKO things with her physical in that dungeon, which suggests that yeah, I don't put TOO much emphasis on the accuracy, more just "insult to injury" when she has so much going against her as is.

[Meeplelard]

Added up to Mt. Glom!  Yeah, small update, but an important one given the manliness levels of it.

[Meeplelard]

Chapter 2 finished!  Fun stuff begins now or something.

[Meeplelard]

Beginning of Chap 3 added!  Mostly making this post to indicate I'm still making progress in the game.  I got through the boring beginning of Chap 3 which is "there's a lot of little optional odds and ends and things to do to waste time!" part, so progress should pick up a bit since then.

[Meeplelard]

Everything up to reaching the Western Continent is up.

News worth noting: ERSHIN DOESN'T SUCK ANYMORE.  Shocking I know.

[Meeplelard]

Finally updated with two more dungeons!  Yeah I've been slacking.

[Meeplelard]

Finished the main stuff!  Will do character analyses soon enough.  Yes, did it with 20 minutes of the year left to spare, WHAT ABOUT IT!?

Also, split the post up because it got too big.  I actually took a completely random spot "half way" and it turns out that was actually right where Chapter 2 ended and Chapter 3 began...which is entirely fitting for a post break, if completely accidental!

[Meeplelard]

So...time for character by character analysis!  Stuff, such, talking, explaining, cheeseballs, reviewing!!!


In order of playabilitiy:

Nina:  MVP, hands down.  There's really no argument here.  She's faster than like everything, which means she can go before enemies, but also can always go immediately after whoever she's comboing with.  Early on, for offense she relies on Firewind combos for damage, which massacres randoms.  Then when starts to fall behind, she gets Cyclone and massacres again, and well, she's pretty much consistent from there, as she learns Typhoon just before she starts falling behind again.  Magic Ball and Oracle are good for some ST damage, and Flame Pillar being gotten as early as it is means she can destroy all of Chapter 3 with Ragnarok.  Oh yeah, and she can heal, and has ridiculous AP, because you know she wasn't good enough.  And while you almost never will see it because you should be using her almost all the time, she has Cheer for Back Row Will Power.
Technically, Nina's flaw is her HP and Defense.  Neither of these come up as much as you'd expect since she does have 25% resistance to physicals mitigating the damage some, and she has an actual evasion score which you tend to forget, so she can actually avoid stuff.

Yeah, she got like #1 during almost every section of the game, and I don't think she ever got out of top 3.  One could say Nina in this game is an apology for her predecessor in BoF3.  It is almost like they were afraid of making an atrocity and went overboard with making sure she was useful, and as a result, we got an overpowered magical princess!


Ryu: Much like Nina, you get a sense of them being afraid of replicating BoF3 balance problems, only here it was "try not to make him too overpowered". The intent with him feels like "make him overpowered for bosses, but completely fair otherwise."  Well, they sort of succeeded.  By "sort of", I mean his overpoweredness only kicks in second half of the game when there aren't a lot of bosses.  Aura's still worth the turn spent for damage boost, extra durability, etc. against bosses, mind, and if you can nab Shadow-walk early, he's good to go.  That said, while Ryu isn't amazing outside of Dragons, he's still a solid character.  The big thing he has going for him is he's good in every stat.  #2 in AP, good Attack and proper weapons to support it, and solid defenses, so he can fill any role with proper master usage.  He does, however, rely heavily on skills to be worth using, though due to his stat build, he's arguably a priority in this regard.  He's easily the best user of Icicle, for example, as Scias learns the equivalent Iceblast naturally, Cray and Ershin are lost causes for magic, and Nina prefers having a combo partner.  So often, the "he needs skills" is superficial.  It does beg the question of how good he'll be in some scenarios, though often just having a lot more AP than other characters is handy, and having the stats to support consistent usage, he's often a good character.

Ershin: Worst character in the game initially, arguably second best come end game?  Yeah, that's right.  In fairness, using Ershin effectively requires knowing how she'll end up late game and playing to that as soon as possible, though frankly, as I stated before, everyone should go under Rwolf when he's first available until Una pops up, but lets not get into that.  Ershin is awful when the game starts; outside of one section where her weapon hits weakness and thus she pretends to be useful until Nina learns Cyclone, Ershin is a Warm Body, and not much else.  To be fair, she does have good defense and good HP, and requires no money to maintain, but her offense is pitiful, and her AP is salvage-able.  Then Chap 3 kicks in and suddenly Ershin gets magic, and her AP sky rockets, and Masters like Njomo which help her speed *AND* AP problems kick in, and Ershin gradually over the course of a few dungeons becomes much better.  She's the only character in the game who allows for a good Quake spell, good for Super Nova combos, and having 3 of the 4 Elements for most of the game means she can be used in nearly any combo.  Also absurd CP means if any fight lasts more than 2 turns, she can basically be subbed in if she isn't in the initial team for basically unlimited AP back up.  It can't be stressed enough; early game Ershin is unsalvage-able garbage, so don't even bother trying to make good use of her there.  Once Cray joins, punt her.  Plan her entirely around the 2nd half and she'll end up great.

Cray: On paper, Cray should not be nearly as bad as he is.  Buffs are actually effective, high attack makes him a prime Super Combo character, Focus + Last Resort combined with that means he could do ridiculous damage to bosses, and he's a tank with random covering allies.  So what goes wrong?  Well, he's slow; there are uses for this, but only later on when you really need 3 way combos, and Ershin can be forcefully made slow due to heavy armors anyway, and she doesn't suck in said combos.
Strike 1!
Problem #2 is that bosses are either not durable enough, don't exist enough, or are end game physical defense gods.  This means trying any sort of big massive Focus Set up is meaningless.  Oh sure, at first he seems good for, say, stuff like The Rider or killing Treans.  The problem is...you'd be using Dragon Ryu for that whose MUCH better and doesn't run risk of dying.
Strike 2!
And lastly, the buffs?  Useless on randoms, most bosses are not durable enough to care, and those that aren't have Sanctuary to just mock it.
Strike 3!

...and that's not all his issues.  To add some insult to injury is lack of AP.  The only way to really work that away without hurting his physical damage is through Njomo (-HP, +AP/Speed), which at first sounds good, but then you look at Scias whose still faster and has more AP using masters that boost physical damage, and ti feels like a wasted endeavor.  Furthermore, Cray has problems with Weapons if you hate fishing, more so than any other character in the game.  Ryu and Scias mostly get the Firangi from it; if you don't get it, Ryu still has the Flame Sword for a half decent 2 hit weapon, and Scias has a few half decent storeboughts.  Cray?  No 2 hit weapons besides the Flail, and 1 hit weapons just don't work well in this game.  And due to low AP, his physical damage is notably behind Scias due to being unable to hurl high end physical skills.

To be fair, Cray's not unusable or anything, its just...you never feel a point to him.  The game just works against him at every corner.  Best reason to use him is for that extra HP tanking early on (late game, you have 6 PCs, so you're swapping so much HP isn't as big a deal), and he's a better 3rd PC than early game Ershin.  Unlike Ershin, though, Cray doesn't really improve.

Scias:  Well, when he first joins, he's your best ST damage dealer, and he's finally a 3rd character with AP score that doesn't suck.  Scias is much like Ryu in that his worth is heavily based on how you raise him.  He can either be an ST damage god and be raised as a fighter, or a competent Water Mage.  Thing is, Water is a kind of shaky element in this game for a few reasons.  First off, the level 2 spell is a skill, meaning Scias loses a niche.  Following that, it follows Wind meaning it goes after Nina, thus raising chance of the spell failing (though Scias himself is often fast enough to go before enemies so this point isn't that bad), and enemies are more often resisting Water than weak to it, and the Final Boss is even NEVER weak to Water.  The main edge of raising Scias as a mage of course is AP; it lets him hurl Shining Blade more consistently (thus he'd be more Red Mage like), be a better healer, and generally fulfill more roles.  Regardless, Scias is often fulfilling that 'back up" slot.  He feels like he falls just shy of making the primary team, but he's always available to be subbed in for whatever role, or alternatively, he's a good "clean up' duty character, like if the initial assault fails, Scias can jump in and finish an enemy off with his physical.

Basically, Scias covers the niche Cray SHOULD have covered; ST physical damage dealer.  Its clear Scias was more an attempt as a Red Mage character who dabbles in everything and can be shifted at it.  The thing is, he sort of is better at Cray in what Cray specializes in, and his supplementary factors are superior (Healing vs. buffs, GEE I WONDER!)  Shining Blade is also a nice perk due to being an innate skill, so he can always have a Shadowwalk clone without being in contention.  Scias worth fluctuates, as I said, depending on how you raise him, though also can fluctuate based on how you raise Ryu.  If you don't give Ryu certain skills, or raise them in specific ways, Scias can end up either a better Ryu or a worse one.  Offhand, I'd say Ryu is overall the better character because of Dragons and the higher base AP, but I can totally understand people who have had opposite experiences, if only because how good/bad these two are relative to one another is dependent on how they are raised.

Though, one big thing Scias has going for him is being the first good PC to fill that 3rd slot.  After early game Ershin and Cray duking it out for it, its nice to have someone whose genuinely competent in all respects and doesn't feel like a warm body.  Basically, the entirety of Chapter 2 outside of the small section he's MIA, your team will likely be Nina/Ryu/Scias.  Though this changes...


Ursula: Because of her.  Ursula is, until Ershin gets her groove going, the single best friend Nina can ask for.  MT Fire damage out of the gate off good AP and Wisdom *AND* the character is faster than most randoms?  HELL YES.  The Fireblast -> Simoon combo massacres things for quite a while.  Ursula decides to take it a step further and have an MT physical on top of it, so if you want good MT damage without using AP or just using charge, Ursula's the one you want.  She specializes in butchering randoms, and does it really well, and pretty much should always be in your top 3 for randoms.  Even after Ershin gets good, Ursula's still good for making 3 way magic combos.  Getting the Culverin allows her to really wreck hell early though the Mortar is not much worse albeit doesn't have the Accuracy/Crit boost, but still should be strong enough for those "Double Blows that are better than combo magic."  (Mortar doesn't require fishing, so its a big deal.)  If that wasn't enough, the game hands her a half decent 2 Hit Gun early for ST damage, if you want to give her Shadow Walk or something. 

Ursula does have some durability issues, though her will does offset it.  I've never actually raised Ursula as a fighter before, so its possible that this playthrough UNDERSOLD how good her MT physicals are, and if she were placed under a physical master instead of Lita/Bunyan the entire game, she may actually do even meaner things.  She's definitely the ideal candidate for Elemental Strikes (especially if you use her Fire Elemental Weapons,  since elemental strikes override that)  as well as being the only person capable of making Double Blow not suck (Triple Blow is kind of a lost cause though.)   Being raised a physical fighter would have the extra bonus of working away her biggest downside, which is low durability.

Overall, she's probably the #2 PC in the game.  The only thing that makes her question this is Ershin's late game pick up though overall, Ursula is probably better than Ershin for a longer period of time, and has more versatility in how she can be built.


Next up, me spontaneously comparing characters alongside their counterparts in another game!  Why?  YOU"LL JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE!