Crazysauce Team Tournament: Noms!

[Cmdr_King]

I haven't fully decided on the precise nature of the tournament, but that doesn't mean I can't take noms!  So lets do that.

There will be two 'divisions' so to speak.  The limitations are as follows

Heavyweights

- Two characters per team
- Both characters from the same game (and the same release of that game, where appropriate)
- One character should be a Middle
- One character may be from any non-Godlike division

This division will face nastier obstacles, regardless of ultimate format.

Prove Yourself

- Two characters per team
- Both characters from the game game (and release thereof)
- Both characters should be Lights.

teams will likely face things aside from each other, although direct duels may come up eventually.  All depends really.  Anyway, place questions here, and get nommin'.

[Glen Veil]

Clarissa + Alexia for Team Twin Princesses in Heavyweights

Emma + Maribel for Team "Stat Goddesses" in Prove Yourself

[OblivionKnight]

Ranked or unranked?

[Cmdr_King]

Either is acceptable.  Obviously unranked characters will be loose on the rankings but we should be close enough.

[Magic Fanatic]

Heavyweights:
Lucas + Kumatora (Mother 3)


Prove Yourself:
Varkas + Sydonia (Suikoden 1)

I have no idea if those two are lights, so if that gets overruled...

Tim + Luceid (Wild Arms 2)

[Nephrite]

Heavyweights:

"A Queen and a Queen"

Asellus and White Rose, Saga Frontier

"A Fancypants and his friend"

Augustine and Lilly

"Random Tanks"

Gau and Mog

Prove Yo'self

"A Tenkai Star and his Bodyguard"

Thomas and Cecille, Suikoden 3

She was Light, wasn't she? I'm pretty sure...

"Master and Slave"

Estella and Rody


"GODLY STATS"

Saradin and Norn

[SnowFire]

So the teams won't be fighting each other?  Interesting.

Cecille *was* a Light, but she upgraded to Middle.  (Probably correctly, too.)

OK, I'm one of the few PS3 voters around, but if we must do PS3, can we restrict it to the 1st Gen characters everybody is guaranteed to see?

Bunch of noms here, feel free not to use all of 'em.

Heavy:
Snow / Hope
Stabbing, stalling, and shelling.

Stocke / Aht
OMG Stocke you are so cool!! (...because you push the baddies into my traps....)

Jessica / Luna
Who needs offense?

Jeremy / Kresnik
Okay, both of these are Heavy in the DL, but they have seriously bad synergy (staller + blitzer + they hate each other?!) and Kresnik is a low-Heavy who upgraded, and it's funny.  Failing that: Jeremy + Scythe.  (Kresnik + Jude would be legal, but think they have that turn 1 MT nuke special move off FP advance, so.)

Crono / Marle
Livening up Millennium Fairs since '95.

Proof:
XS2 Jin / XS2 Jr.
Pretty much every XS2 character is a Light except for maybe Erde-Kaiser hyped Shion, so.  (Medica hype is pretty much non-existent here)

Cyan / Banon
Possibly too good for the division, since infinite MT healing is pretty good in a team match, and Cyan thus has time to wind up ID / MP-draining / etc.

Guido / Mullen
He-ey, why's a me a-workin' with the villain?

Genis / Collete
Oops!  I tripped and fell and then the enemy went boom!

Squire Lavian / Bard Rad
"Why do I have to be the squire?  Isn't Squire your starting class?"
"Yes, but you can't be a Bard for slow buffing hype, and Dancer isn't Light."
"Shucks."

Squire Rad / Dancer Lavian
"It's not very Knightly to be a Dancer."
"Yeah, but despite being meh Knight is actually a Middle in the DL.  Or at least in NR."

[Dark Holy Elf]

Just a note, Kresnik and Jude's turn 1 MT "nuke" hits ~3x weakness on nanomachines, and is quite bad damage against anything else (3000-4000ish? I forget. 5HKO range), so it wouldn't be hypable here anyway. For all that I agree Jeremy/Kresnik is a much more fun team.

[superaielman]

FFT Dancer is such a DL light. It has no damage to speak of, bad stats outside of okay speed and a worthless skillset. Oh no don't slightly lower my stats!!!  (Though I think carpets were a decent DL weapon so that helps)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Ulrika Mulberry/Etward Dysler (Mana Khemia 2) - Team Nightmares of Ennarcia

Self-explanatory. Ulrika ain't no Heavy, but she has some well-translating team setting tools and her status compliments Et's mean offense pileup well.

Tidus/Rikku (Final Fantasy X) - Team Let's Itemball!

EDIT: Because Kimahri is boring and initiative Hastega's still broken. Also, if I can't have frue broke, Rikku is a nightmare. =D

Dorothy/Lion (Wild ARMs of Oz: Beyond the Yellow Brick Filgaia) - Team A Girl and Her Kitty

Cheating the turnsplit and providing great front/back row arguments for shits and giggles. ^_^

Jowy Atreides/Tengaar (Suikoden 2) - Team "Death From the Sky and the Land

Nearly 2x PC HP off MT damage oh why yes.

EDIT: All of these are for the Heavyweight division, for clarification.

[SnowFire]

Wouldn't the status dance (Nameless Dance was it?) be pretty hypable?  MT nasty status, auto-life, etc. That said if CK is cool with it, sure, Squire Rad + Dancer Lavian.

Re Jude / Kresnik hype: I see.  I'm pretty sure that works on the entire final dungeon that you have Kresnik for, still seems potentially hypable, certainly you wouldn't notice the 3x damage drop in-game.  Ah well, Kres / Jeremy is still funnier.

Jo'ou: While I too nommed a Heavy / Heavy team, Kresnik is low Heavy and Jeremy is chancy in a team match due to being ST and OHKO-bait.  Tidus / Wakka are both Heavy / Godlikes who have been in both divisions, and the division specifically asks for a single Middle in it.

[superaielman]

Heavyweights:

Tide fanservice- Wilme and Esuna (7S)
Seed: Fujin and Seifer (FF8)
Smartass and has a nice ass: Ryudo and Millenia (G2)
Bros: Yosuke Hanamura and Teddie (P4)
A not so fine line between idiocy and genius: Dekar and Lexis (L2)

Prove yourself:

Generals- Cai and Lyonesse (Brig)
Manly men: Edward and Tellah (FF4)
AUGH: Chu-Chu and Maria (XG)
IRPO: Doll and Cotton (Saga)
Nede: Noel Chandler and Chisato Madision (SO2)

[superaielman]

Nameless dance has a 50% chance of hitting one of these statuses: Blind, Confuse, Silence, Frog, Poison, Slow, Stop, or Sleep.

It's bad.

[Dark Holy Elf]

There's one enemy that the unite doesn't hit weakness on, though even if there weren't the move blatantly says that it hits weakness on nanomachines. It's pretty much just an MT Apoptosis, and it's easy enough to extrapolate what it would do.

Though, idly, even if it did do its full damage to everything, it would hardly be overpowered. Barring a relatively low chance (~1/5?) of the two starting in the same hex, it takes two actions to activate, and is MT lowish 2HKO, and they can't even do it a second time. Not really that impressive. One could easily set up fast MT one-rounding teams, for instance:

Stupidly Secretive S5 Sindar Searchers

Zerase (Suikoden V)
Killey (Suikoden V)

(EDIT, for Cmdr: I mostly posted this as illustration. Feel free to run with it or not, depending on how you feel about power level, etc.)

[Nephrite]

Isn't Wakka a Heavy?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Yes. That's the point, even. I'm not sure if Tidus downgraded or not, but.

EDIT: DERP. Lemme change things.

[hinode]

TOPSP is admittedly an interp headache, but I'd definately kneejerk Denam as a Godlike. Double Attack and Phalanx are legal for Lord, so he does 80+% PCHP damage (quite possibly a OHKO if you allow him dagger weapon ranks) and then immediately cuts all damage he takes to 1/10th until his next turn. His recharge rate will be awful but it hardly matters when he's near-invincible except versus status, and his initial speed is probably above average which is what matters when cheesing battles with Phalanx. He gets healing too, which is normally pathetic in a duel but actually looks viable when you're cutting all damage taken to 1/10th.

The only thing that could really hold him back is if you penalize Lord's level really harshly due joining late. It'd have to be a whole lot of levels too, since speed isn't level-dependent at all and that's his most important stat.

[Cmdr_King]

Hm.  Without knowing TO very well, there's some concerns here.

Double-Attack is a straight double-act, then?  So, he can use any other action + Phalanx, which seems to be a defensive stance of some variety.  Unless his healing's good in its own right, there's still the issue of gravity and ITD attacks, no?  I suppose if he could spike his damage at the cost of not having Phalanx?  Or is that a passive skill?  Anyway, if it isn't passive, and he can spike his damage, that gives him tools against folks like Terra but still leaves the many HP->1 and Gravity effects of the world.
He might just be a Heavy really, the number of Godlikes with neither debilitating status nor gravity is actually quite small, and there are enough heavies capable of beating him in similar fashion if he has no way to blitz them.

Although since this sounds dependent on the PSP version specifically, I'm not sure it's a great idea anyway.

[OblivionKnight]

Changed my teams around, deleted the old ones

[Cmdr_King]

While I like the concept of Orpheus as a dueller, I have to object to any sort of twink-specified characters here OK.  Sorry!

That said, feel free to nom multiple teams.  I'd like to have some pick-and-choose options~

[OblivionKnight]

Reposting them all here then:


Heavyweights
Fall-from-Grace + Morte (Planescape: Torment)
Viconia + Bodhi (Baldur's Gate 2)
Ellen + Megan (Fire Emblem 404)
Fighter + Magician (Drakkhen)


Prove Yourself
Shadow Yosuke + Shadow Rise (Persona 4)
Krillin + Chao-Tzu (DBZ RPG - fuck spelling them right; it's all about BALDNESS)
Sailor Chibi-Moon + Rubeus (Sailor Moon: Another Story)
G-Girl + Cashel (Tales of Legendia)


Let me know if you need more!

[hinode]

Double Attack is basically identical to FFT Two Swords, except that you incur the RT penalty from both weapons. This is a pretty serious recharge rate penalty when dual wielding swords, but two daggers are lighter than most two-handed weapons so it's not a big deal. Daggers also do more damage than every other melee weapon from midgame onwards... TOr weapon balance is pretty silly. I have no idea what the DL damage curve is, but with mages dragging the average down I wouldn't be surprised at all of Lord Denam does 50%PCHP per hit with daggers. He doesn't have many options to improve that since finishing moves will do less damage than a double attack physical, but he hardly needs to, really.

Phalanx is a skill which adds an RT penalty when used but does not use up a turn. It costs 50 TP per use, which is which is utterly trivial for a high damage class like Lord to sustain indefinately. It can be used before or after acting in a turn. The only reason not to use it every single turn in-game with a Lord is that it slows you down and disables counterattacks for a turn, so if you aren't facing meaningful enemy damage (or can just kill every non-ranged enemy before they get a hit in <_<) you might as well keep the offense rolling at full bore.

[Tide]

Heavyweights
Dragonhunters: Wiegraf + Beowulf (FFT)
Awesome bodyguards: Lyon + Miakis (Suiko5)
The Lady and the Servant: Raze + Lily (MK2)
Drifter Legends: Maya + Virginia (WA3)
Siblings: Kresnik + Yulie (WA4)
TURTLE SOUP: SUPER SHREDDER and KRANG (TMNT: Turtles in Time)

Prove Yourself
Tokage: Liz + Ard (WA2)
Shroedinger's Cat: Alfred + Shady (WA3)
Invent-a-Victory: Emma  + Jane (WA: ACF)
Runaway Vehicle: Rufus + Palmer (FF7)
Team Pringles: Mario + Luigi (M&L1)

[SnowFire]

A few random comments:

* Dark Holy Elf - Ah.  I guess the enemies you fight with Jude / Kresnik just suck in addition to being nanomachines.  I recall being pretty impressed with the attack in-game but yeah, the WA4 damage curve at lvl. 50 means it's totally plausible to slaughter randoms with substandard damage.

As for your team..  well..  you say so yourself, but that's definitely a team set up to "win."  Looking at the stat topic, Killey is pretty much Low Heavy even if he was ranked in Middle (sure, spoiled by Fire Resistance or a lot of healing), and Zerase is High Heavy, and they have tremendous synergy, so yeah.

* Not having played TOPSP, Denam definitely sounds Godlike.  Gravity isn't that common, one.  And two, it still takes two actions to kill somebody even with HP-1 after which it sounds like Denam will have done at least 1.6x PCHP damage if he won the speedbreak, so he entirely has arguments against the likes of Zeal / Kefka based on how speedbreaks go.  Terra has trouble finishing the job even with a Morphed Ultima after Quartr assuming Denam doesn't fail at HP when Ultima is ramming into 90% damage reduction, and Terra is slower than average anyway, so she better hopes she blocks some of Denam's attacks to even make it to turn 2.  (Or uses Break, sure, but the status weakness alone doesn't stop other Godlike slugfesters).  I'm not even sure Gravity necessarily counters an ability like Phalanx if it's just a flat "however much damage you take, you now take 10% of it" rather than a huge defense buff.  For example, (not ranked but it's very noticeable due to being a solo RPG) FF7CC Protect and Shell will help against boss super attacks which often are gravity based.  The FF13 final boss has a gravity-based ultimate attack and debuffing, and if you are Deshelled when he "gravity" nukes you you are going to die, you'll take 90% damage or the like if you aren't debuffed, and if you are buffed up you'll take 65% damage or so.  So lots of gravity attacks might not break Phalanx anyway.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Snowfire: Well, WA4 randoms die to slightly above average damage pretty much all game long. This isn't even an unusual property of WA4 randoms, lots of games are like this. So yes, infinitely spammable MT damage that only 2HKOs in the DL is really good in-game, this isn't terribly surprising.

Pretty sure my respect for the Lord class isn't even existant, levels are too big (they determine equipment too, remember) and I'd see anything that joins that late as pretty darn underlevelled. Fortunately Denam has Warrior!

(TO is a weirdly bad ranking idea, go figure.)