Author Topic: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.  (Read 16916 times)

Lady Door

  • Coming up with words is, like...
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1998
  • ... really hard.
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #150 on: November 05, 2012, 07:37:24 PM »
PLEASE VOTE FOR MORE THAN THE PRESIDENT

I know we're all talking about the presidential election, and I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but there are more issues at stake than the presidency. PLEASE take a few minutes to look up the other measures that will be appearing on your ballot, get informed, and make your choices on those races as well. The presidency is a big one, but your congressional choices have just as much an impact on what actually happens in the next 2-4 years, and your local races (mayoral, State congress, measures/bonds, local courts) will have a huge impact on your day-to-day life.

VotersEdge.org is a good source if it covers your state.
<Demedais> Humans look like cars to me.
<AndrewRogue> That must be confusing in parking lots

Shale

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #151 on: November 06, 2012, 12:14:30 AM »
There seem to be an abnormally large number of good ballot initiatives this year. I'd particularly like to see the death penalty end in CA, and gay marriage and medical marijuana pass everywhere. Naturally, nothing fun is on the ballot where I actually live.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 12:18:26 AM by Shale »
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

Luther Lansfeld

  • Global Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5066
  • Her will demands it.
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #152 on: November 06, 2012, 12:46:58 AM »
There was a vote to remove affirmation action in Oklahoma, otherwise pretty boring shit.
When humanity stands strong and people reach out for each other...
There’s no need for gods.

http://backloggery.com/ciato

Profile pic by (@bunneshi) on twitter!

Cotigo

  • Jerkface
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4176
  • Yoo-hoo, Mr. Tentacle Guy...
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #153 on: November 06, 2012, 01:47:56 AM »
There was a vote to raise the minimum wage in Albuquerque plus changing it so tipped jobs have to be paid at least 60% minimum wage in wages instead of the absurd 2.15 it is now.  Aside from that nothing really sexy, just voting to fund libraries and other mundane but important stuff like that.

Grefter

  • Villain.
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 10386
  • True and Honest. Smarter. More aggressive.
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #154 on: November 06, 2012, 02:03:15 AM »
Noting down the things that Shale finds fun.  Marijuana and gay marriage.  Late wedding gift plans on their way.
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

NotMiki

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4476
  • Social Justice McNinja
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #155 on: November 06, 2012, 02:06:50 AM »
We've got medical marijuana, death with dignity/assisted suicide/whatever you want to call it, and consumer access to automotive diagnostic and repair information.  The last of which is a mess because after getting the ballot measure certified, supporters got the legislature to cave and pass a nearly identical law that starts at a later date.  So now the authors of the measure are airing ads telling people to vote against it.
Rocky: you do know what an A-bomb is, right?
Bullwinkle: A-bomb is what some people call our show!
Rocky: I don't think that's very funny...
Bullwinkle: Neither do they, apparently!

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9632
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #156 on: November 06, 2012, 05:14:51 PM »
There seem to be an abnormally large number of good ballot initiatives this year. I'd particularly like to see the death penalty end in CA, and gay marriage and medical marijuana pass everywhere. Naturally, nothing fun is on the ballot where I actually live.

Voting against George Allen counts as fun.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Shale

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #157 on: November 07, 2012, 12:34:52 PM »
This is true. And man, did it pay off. Stay gone, douchebag. Kaine over Allen was the only result I cheered as it came in.

The final results? 2013-14 is going to look a lot like 2011-12. Republican House, Democratic Senate (but with a smaller majority than the R's have in the House), Obama in the White House. Romney won every McCain state plus Indiana and North Carolina, the two most obvious states to swing back to his column. So....yeah, most of this crap was a total waste of time.

Ballot initiatives, though? Kickass. Colorado and Washington flat-out legalized marijuana for personal recreational use, Massachusetts for medical use. Gay marriage passed in Maryland and Washington (stoned same-sex ceremonies!), and a ban failed in Minnesota, first time that's happened. We have an openly homosexual Senator-elect in MN's Tammy Baldwin. Sadly the death penalty is going to keep being a thing in California, but on the whole, I'm smiling.
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9632
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #158 on: November 07, 2012, 12:38:30 PM »
 I'm really hoping Obama isn't as blatantly nasty about the weed stuff as he was in his previous term, but I have my doubts there.  I wasn't going to be happy with the presidental result no matter what, but it was nice to see George Allen rejected again.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Shale

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #159 on: November 07, 2012, 12:52:14 PM »
I'm assuming he will be, but it's still going to be fascinating to watch it play out. DEA's going to take the harshest option it can, I'm sure, but what options do you have if pot sales actually take off?

(And yeah, there was no chance of a presidential result that would make me happy either. Went third-party for the first time, don't regret it.)
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9632
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #160 on: November 07, 2012, 01:19:31 PM »
Johnson or Stein? I think pot sales will take off,w hich is good. ANything that weakens the power of the drug cartels is only a net positive.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Shale

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #161 on: November 07, 2012, 02:07:12 PM »
Johnson. Seemed like he had the best chance to be a spoiler. He didn't, but he came a hell of a lot closer than the Greens did, which combined with the drug and gay marriage results will hopefull signal to at least a few Republicans that it's time to get off the social-issues crazytrain if nothing else.
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

Grefter

  • Villain.
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 10386
  • True and Honest. Smarter. More aggressive.
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #162 on: November 07, 2012, 07:13:50 PM »
So you are saying Ozzy 2016?
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

Idun

  • Guest
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #163 on: November 08, 2012, 08:25:15 PM »
We've got medical marijuana, death with dignity/assisted suicide/whatever you want to call it, and consumer access to automotive diagnostic and repair information.

That, and the amendment to recognize corporations as humans (and Senator support for voting for supporting Medicare, food stamps, public school funding, etc.). I'm sort of over the medical mary-j, since mary-j is pretty much decriminalized here. My roommate in med school says her patients are hollerin' for a prescription despite the 'necessary' part (and from my understanding, already done for conditions).

I am fairly upset that assisted suicide did not pass. I voted because my mom lectured me and I've been picking my battles wisely, but it was for the ballot questions and not the presidency. I imagine the AS will be on future ballots considering this year's results.

NotMiki

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4476
  • Social Justice McNinja
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #164 on: November 08, 2012, 11:56:50 PM »
I think medical marijuana is, as a law, a silly mess.  but I voted yes for it on the theory that if a critical mass of states legalize it, then the federal government will move in that direction, hopefully easing the horrible number of people - mostly young black men, of course - incarcerated for it.
Rocky: you do know what an A-bomb is, right?
Bullwinkle: A-bomb is what some people call our show!
Rocky: I don't think that's very funny...
Bullwinkle: Neither do they, apparently!

Hunter Sopko

  • Heavily in Debt
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4556
  • Hai, Kazuma-desu
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #165 on: November 09, 2012, 01:25:18 AM »
It's just a touchy issue. If Colorado gets away with disregarding federal law, you can be sure a hell of a lot of states will vote to do things like outlaw abortion.

NotMiki

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4476
  • Social Justice McNinja
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #166 on: November 09, 2012, 02:31:41 AM »
Two things:

1: outlawing abortion can be attacked judicially because of Roe v. Wade.  I don't think there are any constitutional problems with a state law legalizing pot.  Maybe a Supremacy Clause thing, but probably not.

2: the executive has near-unlimited discretion to set prosecutorial priorities.  I'm not sure how Obama's justice department will handle Colorado, but I'm pretty sure how they'd treat a state outlawing abortion.
Rocky: you do know what an A-bomb is, right?
Bullwinkle: A-bomb is what some people call our show!
Rocky: I don't think that's very funny...
Bullwinkle: Neither do they, apparently!

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4375
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #167 on: November 09, 2012, 03:26:26 AM »
Honestly?  For all that I'm pretty lukewarm on Obama, I'm still fairly glad he got in instead of Romney.

1. He openly stated his support for gay marriage earlier this year, and got reelected.  Someone had to be first to say that at a presidential level and still get elected.
2. While the only significant positive of Obamacare is that it gets rid of preexisting conditions clauses...guess what?  I have a preexisting condition!  I will be taking pills for the rest of my life.  And since Obamacare is one of the only real policy differences between the two....
3. The stuff Jim posted a couple weeks back about Romney not wanting gay parrent names to appear on birth certificates took my opinion of Romney from "Meh, he doesn't seem crazy unlike some of his party" to "actually no: I'd definitely prefer Obama; wtf Romney."



And yes, I'm obviously quite happy by the ballot measures.

Also quite happy about the largest Super PACs turning up almost no results in their favour:

http://reporting.sunlightfoundation.com/2012/return_on_investment/

Dunefar

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1222
  • Wuffy-wuff-wuff!
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #168 on: November 09, 2012, 07:03:42 AM »
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57547239/adviser-romney-shellshocked-by-loss/

There's been a lot of surprise for the right wing regarding Romney's loss. This article does a decent job of explaining why and what assumptions lead to the anticipation of a Romney victory. 

Two page article, by the way. It's easy to miss.
* Infinite_Ko_Loop is now known as Ko-CidisnotaPrincess
<Nephrite> That is depressing.
<CmdrKing> I know.  Cid would makea  great princess.

Hunter Sopko

  • Heavily in Debt
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4556
  • Hai, Kazuma-desu
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #169 on: November 09, 2012, 08:12:17 AM »
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57547239/adviser-romney-shellshocked-by-loss/

There's been a lot of surprise for the right wing regarding Romney's loss. This article does a decent job of explaining why and what assumptions lead to the anticipation of a Romney victory. 

Two page article, by the way. It's easy to miss.

Post-script edit: This is gonna be rambly as fuck and mostly BSed, but it's late and thats the fun of politics. Whatever.

Said it before, but when the words "Universal, systematic polling bias" appear on your victory plan, you have to know that something is up.

Hindsight is 20/20, and these people are way smarter than I am, but sometimes things seem a lot more simple afterwards. They assumed voter turnout would go down, which was true! But they also assumed turnout among all groups that normally vote democrat would proportionally go down as well, which they were just dead wrong on. There was evidence to suggest that might be the case to some degree, but not to the levels they seem to have planned/banked on. They were so certain of this they based their entire strategy around it, which is just... not sound.

The article, in its fair-handed attempt to explain their shock, paints a worse picture of the campaign than any partisen mockery. Optimistic views and optimal outcomes are one thing, but the Romney camp's path to victory almost seems delusional now. There's no questioning that certain swing states could have swung the other way. Florida in particular. But to include in their expected outcome the bucking of turnout trends that have been building in the last 2 Presidential electoral cycles is just silly. The only true outlier they really should have been broadsided by was the Cuban population going against their traditional Republican leanings for the first time ever (While the hispanic vote overall in Florida went for Obama in 2008, the Cuban population in Florida voted McCain over Obama... by the smallest margin ever to that point). Instead, they scratch their heads about how the youth vote, which while numerically down actually went up a tenth of a percentage point proportionally (at least, last time I checked the numbers), they scratch their head over the "minority" vote maintaining its 2008 levels, and envisioned a landslide where they were carried into the office on the backs of their ever-shrinking (proportionally) base magically appearing in record numbers in states where there were never really enough of them to carry the day without also getting the independants on your side anyway.

I don't think this was a mobilization of the base thing, I think it's more that the numbers just aren't there anymore no matter how many of them you mobilize (on a national level). The rise in the youth vote and minority vote have overtaken them. Punditry can sometimes get things right: the most common comment after the election was over was that they Republicans will need to learn how to be more inclusive if they want to win in future elections. National politics are changing, and while they can still win their states, they've lost touch with how to win the country. Along similar lines, that really has less to do with Democrats than the process itself becoming detrimental to the Republicans. The primary for the right destroys them. Obama and Hillary damn near killed each other in theirs in 2008, but it left Obama nowhere near as poorly situated in the general as McCain and Romney were after their base got done with them. It'll continue to be that way as the Republican party goes through its "identity crisis" as the party slips more right. It's weird. I guess that since the Democratic party is used to being fractured anyway they're used to dealing with the resulting situation of both sides becoming more partisen.

Maybe watching Fox News on Election Night was more telling than we thought. Maybe it really was the party finally realizing that the country has changed so much, so quickly that they'll have to come up with a new strategy. I'd probably be scared and speechless too, if I were in their shoes. But honestly? They should have seen this coming. It's their job to. Sure, you can't be perfect, can't win them all. Bringing it home to Romney's camp, waiting it out was the right thing to do too. But being so confident and, I'll say it, ignorant that you don't even have a concession speech prepared? Please.

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4375
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #170 on: November 09, 2012, 08:21:53 AM »
I'll toss in another interesting election editorial while we're at it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-is-killing-the-republican-party-2012-11

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4375
    • View Profile

Shale

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #172 on: December 08, 2012, 12:35:08 PM »
By what I'm sure is sheer coincidence, the court accepted only the cases that have potentially serious procedural hurdles for one side or the other to clear, so they can dismiss one or both of the suits without actually saying anything about gay marriage if they so choose (but this would result in a win for the good guys in California, because it's the intervenor-defendants who have issues in that one).
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

NotMiki

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4476
  • Social Justice McNinja
    • View Profile
Re: Politics '12: Election year shenanigans.
« Reply #173 on: December 09, 2012, 08:43:57 AM »
Here is my impression of the gay marriage case.  I have yet to find anyone who agrees with me, so consider this, like, some cutting-edge analysis or something.

I am concerned that the conservatives on the court see the Prop 8 case as a perfect opportunity to diminish Article III standing for advocacy groups.  Here's my conspiracy theory.  I envision a result like this: 5 conservatives say the intervenors have no standing, and refuse to decide the equal protection issue, allowing the district court ruling invalidating Prop 8 to survive, but with its effect limited to the parties named in the initial case.  In other words, gay marriage wins...for a few people in California.  4 liberals will argue that standing exists and that equal protection forbids bans on gay marriage.  In terms of gay marriage, this is perhaps an ideal result, because it is a clear message that Gay Marriage is Coming(/gameofthrones) but it gives the country more time to build a consensus on gay marriage through state-level democracy.  Particularly, California will be forced to resolve the issue.  This way, SCOTUS buys some time - perhaps another year or two - to get public opinion more firmly on the side of gay marriage before pulling the trigger.  If that's what happens, the risk of a Roe v. Wade type backlash in public sentiment is diminished.  The Court gets to reduce the inevitable cries of judicial activism and still gets to be on the right side of history.  Split dat baby.  I believe Kennedy would like to proceed down those lines.

But this result has a serious downside: it means Kennedy has to get on board for an opinion that diminishes constitutional standing of advocacy groups.  Scalia and Thomas historically have tried to limit standing as much as they think they can get away with.  I'm not sure how Alito and Roberts feel about it, but I'm gonna guess that they also would like to limit it.  Kennedy has been somewhat more moderate on standing.  But if Kennedy wants to kick the can down the road, he's got to side with the other conservatives and seriously limit Article III standing.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 08:47:11 AM by NotMiki »
Rocky: you do know what an A-bomb is, right?
Bullwinkle: A-bomb is what some people call our show!
Rocky: I don't think that's very funny...
Bullwinkle: Neither do they, apparently!