Author Topic: What Games ya Playin' 2012 - Suplex a Train Edition (Read 237358 times)

Meeplelard · « **Reply #1800 on:** August 29, 2012, 01:54:07 PM »

Snowfire, from what I can tell, the character limit thing?

Its 10 Characters for Plot fights, and 6 for Random Encounters.

And yeah, game is a bit cumbersome at first because they kept in the exact same "Auto Battle' intro the original had, then hurl a lot of menus at you. Once you get over that hurdle, things become far more fluid. A lot of the original game's nightmares won't actually return as a result.

Anthony Edward Stark · « **Reply #1801 on:** August 29, 2012, 10:46:08 PM »

^^^
I assumed this was a Meep post at first.

Fenrir · « **Reply #1802 on:** August 30, 2012, 01:32:58 AM »

Quote from: Rob the Stampede on August 28, 2012, 12:17:25 AM

I have been playing Earthbound lately, and since it has been a while I am approaching it with a lot more analytical a stance than I did as a kid. I also had been talking a lot about resource management, depth, and giving the player decisions so they kind of came together.

I realize it gets a lot easier from here on but up to Threed, where I currently am, I'm pretty impressed with how the game has been designed to make you manage your limited resources. It pretty much comes down to a few important decisions clearly made early on: inventory with very limited slots and no item stacking, no buyable PP restoration items, and giving Ness the game's strongest (and most expensive) attack spell, but also making him the only guy with healing PSI for a lot of the game.

Mostly, it's just the feeling I get from dungeons in contrast to most games. In most games these days, it's a question of how long it will take me to slog through whatever random encounters the game wants to waste my time on. EB manages to give some sense of tension and such to gameplay with virtually zero actual challenge by making me consider the use of finite resources rather than "I am going to have to spend X on consumables in the next town to refill my baggage train of potions." The very ablative nature actually kind of reminds me of MechWarrior 2, tbh. More importantly, it keeps me from yelling "why are you wasting my time?" whenever it has me fight a thing I have already fought, because the point is to bleed me, which many games seem to forget. Instead, randoms become some kind of cover fee where they are mostly pointless, but you have to spend X time on them to have enough XP that your numbers are big enough to not die in one hit to the boss or whatever.

So yeah, ablative gameplay. Lotta games forget about it, and that's a shame.

Earlygame Earthbound is great yeah.
The big issue with this kind of gameplay (also seen in Dragon Quest) is that the game always becomes more boring as it goes on. MP is so scarce that spending it on anything but healing (attack spells, buffs, status, whatever) is almost always counterproductive, a risk too important to take. (there might be a hard boss at the end of the dungeon, you might need a ton of MPs)
Dungeons pretty much just become a level check as you only use healing and regular physical attacks against random monsters. The interesting item management also pretty much disappears as you get competent healing.

You can avoid all this in this kind of game (for a start, no healing spells), but I don't think I've ever seen it done in a game?

Diablo 3: Inferno Act 3. Haaaaard

Anthony Edward Stark · « **Reply #1803 on:** August 30, 2012, 02:03:53 AM »

I actually found that, around Threed, I could manage to end fights a lot sooner and save my healing/items if I used my lower-level PSI, especially for Paula. It makes the game go so much faster and frankly, makes fights more manageable.

I'd probably cut the amount done by healing PSI in half and that would fix most problems, though.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #1804 on:** August 30, 2012, 02:13:28 AM »

One thing you can do that helps is to separate the resources used for healing from offence. To some extent early Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy 1/2/4 do this through a black/white mage separation, although the white mage's skillset still tends to suffer. Phanasy Star 4 also made skills optimised for randoms (instant death, multitarget) which run off their own resources, and is definitely one of the more successful builds in that model.

Anthony Edward Stark · « **Reply #1805 on:** August 30, 2012, 02:25:55 AM »

I just remembered PK Hack was a thing. I think I'm going to try changing the value of heals when I get home and see if I can't find a number I like. I am finally going to use it for its intended purpose, rather than putting the Gutsy Bat on the Kraken in the Sea of Eden like the guide said.

superaielman · « **Reply #1806 on:** August 30, 2012, 02:26:59 AM »

Buffing and status is hugely important in dragon quest. I'm seriously feeling the lack of it in DQ4 on this current run; no Cristo/Brey and using the superscrub sisters instead hurts. Gah.

Meeplelard · « **Reply #1807 on:** August 30, 2012, 02:51:15 AM »

Quote

The big issue with this kind of gameplay (also seen in Dragon Quest) is that the game always becomes more boring as it goes on. MP is so scarce that spending it on anything but healing (attack spells, buffs, status, whatever) is almost always counterproductive, a risk too important to take. (there might be a hard boss at the end of the dungeon, you might need a ton of MPs)

I'm going to have to disagree with this rather strongly. I just replayed Earthbound and I was using a lot of PP for offense. People watching me play the game could verify that this was in fact the case, as I did stream the entire thing.

Earthbound has a lot of Magic Butterfly areas scattered about (and once you know where they are, you can abuse the rooms), and later in the game you get plenty of PP healing through Brainfood Lunches (50 PP that also is 300 HP. Its full for Poo); resources stop being an issue in Earthbound after the early game truth be told. Only part that feels like you have to squander resources is Happy Happy Village and the area with guardian Diggers (a dungeon that is more maze like and longer as a result)

Anthony Edward Stark · « **Reply #1808 on:** August 30, 2012, 03:05:23 AM »

I'd say that it's an issue in several other places. Lilliput Steps has you trying to keep a low-level Paula up, and Milky Well has enemies that use Shield, as well as other guys who can cast life up and spawn more dudes who can also cast life up. I also found the Department Store and Monotoli Building to be a test of resource management. It sort of stops being an issue later, as you said, when you reach Summers, since that coincides with getting Paula back and also getting both Poo and access to Brain Food Lunch and, to a lesser extent, Kraken Soup.

Fenrir · « **Reply #1809 on:** August 30, 2012, 03:33:59 AM »

It was more of a general statement at this kind of game, not at Earthbound in particular.
And it's obviously less of an issue if you know the game (like you knew Earthbound or Super knows DQ4) because you know what's ahead.
In EB you can own the bosses with rockets anyway (and healing items like pizzas?) and happily waste resources on randoms.

DQ4 is weird because AI. Even with full party control on the DS remake, I found that challenge mostly comes from the bosses, and wouldn't waste resources on randoms. DQ2's pretty much the only game in the series where I've felt like things like status were worthwhile, going blindly into the game.

(Agreed about PS4, but it goes so far the other way)

(By the way Gothic 4 is TERRIBLE so far)

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #1810 on:** August 30, 2012, 03:52:11 AM »

Shadow Hearts 3 -

Oh Malice Killer, you and your five different attacks that inflict eight added effects between them, you lovable jerk you.

Meeplelard · « **Reply #1811 on:** August 30, 2012, 05:00:57 AM »

Tactics Ogre: I've fought a bunch of maps and had like no plot development. No wonder people never recommend doing Neutral path <_<

Grefter · « **Reply #1812 on:** August 30, 2012, 08:51:55 AM »

I could have warned you bro, but that never stops you. Gothic 4 is what you get when you take the original studio from three games made with a semi coherent vision and then take their IP away from them. Someone else makes a game and kind of pretends it is related and it kind of sucks.

5 words from the end of that sentence I realized I am once again subconsciously talking about Fallout again.

Gothic 4 is different though in that no one likes it where Fallout 3 plenty of people like.

dude789 · « **Reply #1813 on:** August 30, 2012, 07:29:29 PM »

Final Fantasy 5 Ancient Cave Hack

Started this up and got decently far. I managed to get Dancer early on and that gave me a way to heal MP which was nice although I have to watch out for undead. I also got a Sasuke knife and the Ninja job around the same time so Bartz's damage was beastly for a good bit. Ended up dieing because the game decides to have fork tower randoms be some of the first World 3 randoms that appeared and apparently it's a game over if everyone gets Encircled. Lame. I had started to get some of the really good late game stuff too.

Captain K. · « **Reply #1814 on:** August 31, 2012, 12:41:04 AM »

Persona 4 Kuma-ite: Over 100 matches now and still no Mitsuru. Teddie mirror matches are FABULOUS. Also ran into my first "cheater". Turns off his xbox when he loses. Sadly this doesn't credit you with a win even if it's after the KO.

Fenrir · « **Reply #1815 on:** August 31, 2012, 04:02:18 AM »

Good luck dude.

Quote

I could have warned you bro, but that never stops you. Gothic 4 is what you get when you take the original studio from three games made with a semi coherent vision and then take their IP away from them. Someone else makes a game and kind of pretends it is related and it kind of sucks.

5 words from the end of that sentence I realized I am once again subconsciously talking about Fallout again.

Gothic 4 is different though in that no one likes it where Fallout 3 plenty of people like.

I figured that hey, maybe, people didn't really give the Gothic 4 developers a fair chance because of all of this? I've actually heard a lot of people complain about Fallout New Vegas not being made by Bethesda, if you can believe it.

But no, Gothic 4 is something else. Melee combat is asinine ARPG brain dead button mashing without any style, substance, or flair. Ranged combat is Backpedal + shoot = WIN.
The build system in a game is pathetic! You can put points in the ranged tree to do like 20% more ranged damage, and once in a while get incredible skills like "Auto zoom in when targeting an enemy" There is nothing to look forward to.

Here's how the story goes. There's this evil king invading everything. Except he's not really a bad guy at heart, he's just being manipulated by the forces of darkness.
You're just a shepard in a peasant village, about to marry some girl (her face scares me A LOT BTW). Village gets razed by the army while you're away. You swear revenge.
First quest? Kill 5 rat moles.

The best part of the game is the exploration, but as you clearly go from an area to the next in a linear fashion it's fairly limited... The only thing left is the satisfaction of finding a treasure chest or two hidden in a corner.

Grefter · « **Reply #1816 on:** August 31, 2012, 04:47:50 AM »

I dunno if they fixed the bugs but I creeped my brother out enough to get him to stop playing when I pointed out that one guy's facial hair wasn't moving when he talked.

superaielman · « **Reply #1817 on:** August 31, 2012, 12:51:59 PM »

Quote from: dude789 on August 30, 2012, 07:29:29 PM

Final Fantasy 5 Ancient Cave Hack

Started this up and got decently far. I managed to get Dancer early on and that gave me a way to heal MP which was nice although I have to watch out for undead. I also got a Sasuke knife and the Ninja job around the same time so Bartz's damage was beastly for a good bit. Ended up dieing because the game decides to have fork tower randoms be some of the first World 3 randoms that appeared and apparently it's a game over if everyone gets Encircled. Lame. I had started to get some of the really good late game stuff too.

That is extremely poor design. The ancient cave works because youcan't really be jumped and in fact can jump a lot of randoms if you're careful.

Grefter · « **Reply #1818 on:** August 31, 2012, 03:04:13 PM »

Welcome to dungeon crawlers. This is what they do.

Persona 1 - ez modo because I give no fucks. So there is a fixed RNG on a hard reset! People know exactly how to force Fool regardless of moon cycle. Sadly it doesn't work with items, so no cheap full MT healing Strong All Persona. It does mean you can actually use them though (good persona choice for Reiji/Chris early that isn't Lilim). I regret not remembering Janus has OP axe of OP for OK/Mark early on, but whatevs. About to do the Mana Castle and decided hey I am bored and this is portable why am i not grindan.

Now that I am not playing it while I am still super noob at RPG design analysis I have to begrudgingly respect the way they favour the main character over other characters. It isn't that he is innately better than others, but hotdamn if his Persona selection doesn't have an arseload more MT on stuff he is Best with. Mark is a good 10 levels behind. Experience skews even more in this fashion because of ez modo. One shotting everything with MT weakness hitting or just Megido makes for so much exp stealing.

I am enjoying this in spite of itself in different ways than P3. This is just the weird artifacts of age. You can tell a whole ton it is an early PSX RPG just from basic design stuff. It is clunky as fuck obviously, but shit like having to backtrack through the Subway 2 or 3 times (with upgraded enemies! So it is a legit dungeon again!). My favourite was that you can't fight Yogsothoth Jr in the Subway without a specific item. So you go to the place and get the item. It is like on the same screen as Subway. It serves no purpose other than checking to see if you read the plot dialogue. It is just weird.

superaielman · « **Reply #1819 on:** August 31, 2012, 03:14:02 PM »

Orcs Must Die 2: Beat the DLC stages on Warmage for both characters. The new enemies are *incredibly* annoying. Both fire and water giants absolutely shred your guardians, and they are durable enough to run through your traps. Wind belt handles the little water enemies well; the Polymorph ring seems like the best bet against the giants.

I may try boom barrel dispensers against them. I'm getting my ass kicked on Traffic Jammed at Nightmare; too goddamn many enemies and not enough resources. I may have to use the money trap here and just load up on mana wells to handle that last wave. Seriously game, a half dozen fire lords? You assholes.

The west wing was really tough until I got smart and camped near the rifts. That way your ceiling traps will take out the fliers, and the extra range lets your archers not get slaughtered by fire giants.

dude789 · « **Reply #1820 on:** August 31, 2012, 04:03:59 PM »

Quote from: superaielman on August 31, 2012, 12:51:59 PM

That is extremely poor design. The ancient cave works because youcan't really be jumped and in fact can jump a lot of randoms if you're careful.

To be fair, at that point you're almost guaranteed to have a Ninja or Thief who can get you out of a jam with Flee or Smoke and FF5's regular run isn't that bad. I just thought that if everyone got Encircled it would just kick me out of the fight instead.

Cromage · « **Reply #1821 on:** August 31, 2012, 05:36:49 PM »

League of Legends: okay now I'm playing it. I think after four days of basically not doing anything else I've learned how not to suck.

AndrewRogue · « **Reply #1822 on:** August 31, 2012, 06:44:10 PM »

Cromage: There is no such thing as not sucking at LoL.

Speaking of, I should get back to playing that. Haven't had time during the week, though. =( Maybe I'll hit 30 (finally) this weekend.

Fudozukushi · « **Reply #1823 on:** August 31, 2012, 08:34:23 PM »

Dark Souls, Prepare to Die Edition: Because I had 40$ burning a hole in my pocket that would obviously be best spent to buy a game I'd already platinumed to get 3 hours of new content that takes 20 hours to get to all because I saw one 20 second cutscene.

My original goal was a rapier-riposte-maxstamina-triplestaminaregen--nohealth build. That turned into useless when I learned rapiers didn't stagger worth a damn and having no health was somehow detrimental to living. So now my health bar is barely bigger than my stamina bar and I am invincible. Skipped Taurous Demon. Butterfly took one life because I rolled into Beatrice's fat ass. Asylum/Capra/Gargoyles/Gaping all went down easy as usual. Stary also went down easy which gave me the sneaking suspicion hell was coming my way. That hell came in the form of naked spider-chicks as Quelaag made me lose 4 humanity and 30k souls through stunlocking. Not even counting the 5 I spent just summoning people because Rapier don't do damage. Iron Golem took two attempts, only because I got knocked off by the slightest of margins. Oranstein and Smough went swimmingly. Which means ~NEW CONTENT~ time!

~NEW CONTENT~SPOILERS FOR PEOPLE WHO CAAAAAAAAAAAARE!~

After finding a pendant that actually does something I get dragged by a toothy hand to a forestry cave. Naturally there's a boss door immediately after. The Sanctuary Guardian is a very tight fight. He has a tail weapon, so it takes me a couple of tries to get.... a whip. Yep. IT POISONS but it's still a whip and thus completely terrible. After I beat him/her/it I meet the first new NPC the Mushroom Queen Elizabeth. Dusk's in trouble again and it's up to Sir Artorias to save her! Too bad he's the second boss. Another very tight fight. Artorias is pretty fast(around Quelaag/Sif speed but less than Gwyn or Ornstein when he feels like zipping around like a crackhead) and he hits hard with a wide variety of moves for a physical boss. One attempt literally only fails because my weapon durability is grounded to broken, shitty rapiers. But I eventually prevail and am on to Oolacile Township. Thankfully the new enemies have no poise so rapiers actually do something, though the mages do 90% of my life a hit and can also poison. Also I die one time to a mimic. That was fun. Anyway, I go back to Artorias' arena and meet the mysterious Lord's Blade Ciaran who ~MYSTERIOUSLY~ dies through being riposted and drops some Lord's Blade Armor and the Gold and Dark Silver Tracers. The greatest comedy is that she wielded the Gold Tracer in the left hand... and it can't actually parry. Anyway, the Lord's Blade armor is fairly decent for weight, and it has poise. But the nerf to the flippy ring means it's not gonna be too useful for pvp. Speaking vaguely of pvp, I went human to fight a new NPC black phantom and got invaded. My parries wouldn't land at all despite being pretty damn clear that they did, so I died. Anyway I find another key and head over to meet Gough, who lets me access one of the bosses, and is also responsible for the cutscene that told me to buy the game again. Also some more painful excursions into the darker parts of Oolacile resulted in some hard humanities and fun times with Sif.

~NEW CONTENT~SPOILERS END!?!?!?!?~

Fenrir · « **Reply #1824 on:** September 01, 2012, 04:53:15 AM »

Quote

I dunno if they fixed the bugs but I creeped my brother out enough to get him to stop playing when I pointed out that one guy's facial hair wasn't moving when he talked.

Actually the most compelling argument to make me go back to that game.

Demon's Souls:
Replaying as a priest named Boris.
Miracles make a lot more sense in this game than in Dark Souls. In Dark Souls you basically have 5/10/15/20 potions and they get refilled at every checkpoint. In Demon's Souls you need to get your own herbs and they never get refilled; free healing makes a lot more sense here.

I've never really noticed it before (but it was probably integrated into my brain before), but each of the five areas you get access to at the beginning of the game gives a different kind of resource in huge amounts. If you're getting low on items (dying again and again against the armored spider, for example), you can get a lot back very easily even at the beginning of the game.
The castle gives HP healing items, the prison MP healing items, the mine stones for weapon upgrading, the shrine gives souls, and the valley of defilement gives you the middle finger. (surprising no one)

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Author Topic: What Games ya Playin' 2012 - Suplex a Train Edition (Read 237358 times)