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Author Topic: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives  (Read 11893 times)

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2012, 05:55:01 AM »
2. Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (Nintendo DS, Konami, 2008)

The second of the two Castlevania games I played this year was easily the better one, and indeed, seemed to address most of the concerns I had with the series and finally turn it into something I could legitimately fanboy over. Now if they just get rid of their annoying tendency to hide the endgame behind some FAQ-bait requirement...

Anyway, Order of Ecclesia is simply a legitimately great sidescroller. Making it from save point to save point (which also act as full-heals) in a dungeon can certainly be a challenge, as you can never really coast an overbloated HP supply like in some games in the series. The game expects you to learn how to fight its individual enemies, using the many different tools at your disposal, and if you don't, you'll die. Boss fights are even better, certainly the best the series has put together so far. They're generally patterned, hard-hitting creatures that would feel quite at home in a Mega Man game... often challenging, but never unfair, as every one of them can be reliably perfected once you learn how to fight them properly (and the game even rewards you for doing so).

It's not just about enemy design, though; much of Order of Ecclesia's success comes from how fun the PC side of things is, too. The game ditches the weapons of previous games, and instead combines them with the often so-so spell/ability sets into one single, cohesive glyph system which is a hell of a lot of fun. Glyphs make up all of Shanoa's attacks, with the game allowing her to set two attacks and one utility power. These attacks vary greatly both in element and damage type, but also in the type of weapon or projectile they create, with a variety you'd expect from multiple Mega Man games rolled into one. And just as it becomes very clear that constantly swapping glyphs in the menu is going to get annoying, the game hands you a glyph sleeve which lets you switch between three pre-made setups at the press of a button. It's a great system that would do a lot to keep combat fun even if the enemies weren't intereesting.

The challenge is up, but the game also lets you take more ownership of your losses than previously. Gone is the long hitstun for taking an attack that plagued Symphony of the Night and Aria of Sorrow. Much less is tied to random drops than in previous games... most of the main glyphs are gained either in fixed locations in dungeons or are stolen from enemies as they try to use them. Random drops feel mostly used for completionist-oriented sidequests than anything truly important, now, although a couple high-level attack glyphs and a few gimmicky but not overly relevant utility poewrs.

The game has multiple difficulty modes. The game has a replay option with a second, rather distinct PC. The game has so many abilities and combinations you can set that even within the same mode you can play it in complete different ways. In short, the game has replay value. Order of Ecclesia is the only game on this list which I have already replayed (barring Mario Kart 7, where the idea of a "replay" is not easily quantified), and I'm closer to playing it a third time than all but one or two of the others a second. A nice bonus the game has, for certain.

Like Metriod Fusion, which topped my list last year, this game somewhat tones down some of the exploration aspects which had existed in its own series. Gone is, for the most part, the idea of exploring a single large dungeon. Though you do ultimately end up in Dracula's Castle and it's still decently large, and there's certainly some secret-hunting to be done in it and many of the other stages, the overall design of the game is definitely less focused that direction, and more on throwing challenging gameplay in your path and letting you respond with a powerful and varied arsenal of weapons. I'm quite fine with this, as it lets the game maintain its direction, and increasingly I find the appeal of large-scale exploration is lost on me. Still, it would be fair to say that this game is more Megamanvania than Metroidvania. (Wait, I think I just figured out why I like it so much.)

It's a great platformer and it does very little wrong. My main complaints about it, aside from the already alluded to hiding of the endgame behind a stupid FAQ-bait requirement, is that the platforming itself is a little uninspiring. It's nothing bad, but it's certainly not something I'd play the game simply for, which is too bad because I'd have loved to see Magnes in a more platforming-heavy game. I'm also not a particularly big fan of glyph unions and how using them causes you to get less money, but that's a pretty minor quibble. After all, it's hard to complain about a mechanic that you can at worst ignore! I suppose the storyline is kinda lame too (Shanoa's lack of personality borders on alarming and it's not like any of her castmates are anything to write home about) but I think I've already compared this game to Mega Man (not to mention past Castlevania titles) enough for you to guess how much I think this drawback hurts the game.

Order of Ecclesia is an outstanding game in a genre I enjoy a lot, a game that I feel took a solid but unamazing series and turned it into something I could really gush over. I could easily have taken it to be my #1 game this year if the mood had struck me. But hey, a second consecutive year of well-liked but somewhat niche platformer taking #1 on this list wouldn't be as discussion-prompting as... well. We'll get there soon enough!

The good: Great, challenging action-based sidescroller with terrific weapon options
The bad: FAQ-bait endgame, platforming could be better
The ugly: Screwing up the Dominus plot use twice and having to refight a tough boss each time!

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Captain K.

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2012, 10:51:05 AM »
I am very proud of my Eligor medal.  That was a bitch.

Cotigo

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2012, 01:01:30 PM »
Oh god your number one game is actually FF13. What the fuck.  That's just terrible.

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2012, 05:44:23 PM »
Yo Dysley, Imma let you finish, but Order of Ecclesia was one of the best Elf games of the year.  Just sayin' Dracula deserves it, here.

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2012, 05:46:33 PM »
Oh god your number one game is actually FF13. What the fuck.  That's just terrible.

It is obviously the Hello Kitty MMO.

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2012, 06:13:04 PM »
Zenny, why do you even bother posting on this forum if you never have anything nice or productive to say? Instead of contributing to the conversation of the topic, you've decided to be an ass for no reason. If you have so little respect for your fellow posters that you never bring anything but petty insults to the table, why are you even here?
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Meeplelard

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #56 on: February 02, 2012, 06:16:48 PM »
Oh god your number one game is actually FF13. What the fuck.  That's just terrible.

Correct me if I'm wrong but...haven't you like...not played FF13? 

Cause if so...
I don't care if you hate it for everything it is conceptually, you have no standing in whether a game is good/bad until you play that, you know it, and much as you can try to argue otherwise, you'll just make a bigger idiot of yourself for pretending to know the quality of a game.

Hating a game and disagreeing is one thing.  Hating a game you never played just because you say so is pretty much bottom tier of intelligence.


If you HAVE played FF13, then feel free to disregard this post, though my point stands for all other games.
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Grefter

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #57 on: February 02, 2012, 09:36:40 PM »
Can we just not do this shit?  Like seriously?  All three of you know better.

Why does Zenny come here?  Because it is a community and he has friends here.  Hard to believe I know, but look at the last page of his post history.  Just to let you in on a secret?  NEB is actually probably one of them or at least part of the community he likes conversing with or seeing the opinion of (note that he paid attention to what NEB played this year and this entire list) .

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=26

What has he done?  Talked about a movie he has seen, discussed politics, posted back and forth about politics, posted about his day, discussed games other people are playing (not like this, like talking about Fallout New Vegas specifically and one about MMX5).  There have been jokes as well, but this was the only post in his last 25 that was aggressively negative.

And Meeple, how the hell can you say junk like that.  People don't need to play entire fucking 40 hours games to make an informed decision about them.  Especially not these days.  I can throw out the token nod to the very extensive reviews that float around the entire internet from people's blogs, forum posts and professional reviews regardless of quality of those these days.  There is tons of information out there about games, especially after they have been out over 12 months if you want to find out about things.

Not to mention we live in a day and age of Lets Plays being kind of this thing you might have heard of.  You can search around and follow one to get a pretty decent idea of how a game plays out, the functions of the combat system and the core plot.

Shit I can give you a pretty lightweight opinion of FE10 hard mode right now if you wanted and I haven't touched FE10 let alone hard mode.  I have enough peripheral information about it to make an informed decision about it such as "would I like this game" and express some shock and probably disapproval if say Dhyer rated it 10/10 and the only mode of the game you should really play.

And Zenny, you can make better jokes than that.  I know you have lost control of your sphincter after all these years of abuse but lets just cut this shit out.

Edit - And fuck you clowns for making me make srs post.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 09:38:18 PM by Grefter »
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Captain K.

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #58 on: February 02, 2012, 10:50:36 PM »
I haven't played (or watched) FF13 and I know it is ass.

Now come on NEB, where's that Hello Kitty review?

Grefter

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #59 on: February 02, 2012, 10:53:00 PM »
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #60 on: February 02, 2012, 10:57:00 PM »
Zenny, why do you even bother posting on this forum if you never have anything nice or productive to say? Instead of contributing to the conversation of the topic, you've decided to be an ass for no reason. If you have so little respect for your fellow posters that you never bring anything but petty insults to the table, why are you even here?

Oh wow this is happening.  Gee, notice how I've been keeping up with this topic and reading through the posts? Perhaps it's because, despite my irreverent attitude, I actually find Elfboy's opinions interesting?  I wouldn't have clicked on a topic in this vein done by Meeple much less kept reading it.

Respecting people.  Internet. Pick one.

To address Meeple's wank, whatever.  I watched my friend play through a fair portion of the game (probably about 4 hours of the midgame split up?), I've read people's opinions (Grefter's aside, though as usual he had the BEST opinion), I've watched a handful of Youtube videos, read a plot synopsis... enough to get an idea that this game made several design decisions that would bore me to tears if I played the game, and didn't have an interesting enough plot for me to give a shit beside that.  So, in my lightweight opinion, the game looks bad and I guess unlike some people I'd rather spend 40 hours of my life doing something other than playing a game I'd probably hate just so I can POST SRS BSNASS about it on the INTERNET.

That's enough treating Meeple like he's people.  In any case, there are some games that I HAVE played a bit of closer to the top of his list (Order of Ecclasia, namely, and I'd put Mario Galaxy 2 leagues ahead of FF13 myself), and NEB putting this game at the top of the list is something that I disagree with and is not in line with my own opinions is terrible.

Now let's untwist those panties and get back on topic, OK? Ok!

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #61 on: February 03, 2012, 12:04:30 AM »
Yo Dysley, Imma let you finish, but Order of Ecclesia was one of the best Elf games of the year.  Just sayin' Dracula deserves it, here.

Castlevania Dracula is a pretty good reason to not give a game from that series the #1 spot, yes.

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Clear Tranquil

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #62 on: February 03, 2012, 10:07:56 AM »
Can't we all be nice to each others friends? ;/ Please.

@ NEB - Been enjoying these. Really looking forward to the FFXIII review. I think you might like the game even more than I do! Which is quite a feat I think. I'm not sure if it'll ever top SO3 or LoD for me (or if Vanille tops Aeris!) Maybe LoD (but can Vanille top a fully fledged Meru as a PC!?)~
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 10:10:57 AM by Clear Tranquil »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #63 on: February 03, 2012, 06:21:19 PM »
If you only like two RPGs more than FF13 then you definitely like the game more than I do!

I'm just vocal about my likes and dislikes.

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #64 on: February 03, 2012, 08:31:11 PM »
I'm just waiting for the big reveal that Elfboy's #1 game is actually Tetris.
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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #65 on: February 03, 2012, 09:39:10 PM »
Watching someone play FF13 is functionally the same as playing it, so I don't see why it's any leap to form an opinion on it based on that.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2012, 08:21:00 AM »
And yes, finished this, and not even a week behind schedule!

1. Final Fantasy XIII (Xbox 360, Square Enix, 2010)

Much has been already written about Final Fantasy XIII. Chances are most people reading this have a fairly strong opinion on the game, whether or not they have even played it. You may think it's the best JRPG of the current generation, or the worst, or anything in between. Regardless, I'll submit that it's probably one of the most worth talking about. Almost nothing is conservative about FF13's game design; for better or worse, it strikes out to re-invent its own genre.

Right off the bat, and one of its most key traits that makes me like the game, is its decision to streamline the RPG experience. The game will never, ever make you spend half an hour exploring a town for plot triggers, or collecting items for some lame fetchquest, or forcing you to play mini-games, or figuring out where the game wants you to go. If you want to get on with the game, you'll always know what you have to do (follow that orange arrow) and I for one greatly appreciate this. The game has been concentrated, shedding all but the aspects of the RPG I actually play games for: telling a story, and having fun, enjoyable battles. It means that I can turn the game on, play for an hour, and expect to be entertained rather than to put up with some sort of bullshit.

In another effort to speed up the game experience, dying in battle now takes you to right before the battle began. Other games have done similar things (such as recent entries in the Wild Arms and Suikoden series), but with FF13, you don't just get to refight the battle, but tinker with your setup as well so you can find something that works better. Even better, if you think a battle has gone south but don't want to wait to actually lose it, you can restart the battle with from a menu option. As a result, you'll never have to redo large amounts of game due to a death.

This, of course, frees up the game to make battles much more challenging. No longer having to worry about annoying players by killing them, many of the battles in Final Fantasy XIII, regular fights as well as bosses, can be deadly. A few are deadly enough that the game is actively encouraging you to avoid them (such as a few memorable nasties when you first arrive in Pulse), but for the most part, they're just relatively challenging fights that the game expects you to use the system against. Especially from later in the game I find most individual enemies memorable, something almost unheard of for me after a single playthrough of an RPG. I consider this a great thing.

As for the actual system itself? Again, it's pretty terrific. It succeeds at what I feel many action RPGs fall short at, mixing the analysing and decision-making found in RPG battles with a fast tempo. Choices are still made via menus, but the decisions need to come fast. The game's interface strives to make this possible; you can queue actions as your ATB gauge fills up instead of waiting for it to be full and then scrambling at the last second. It's pretty much the best version of ATB the series has produced, rewarding quick thinking without sacrificing too much of the strategy side of things. Also serving to help this is the paradigm shift system, which allows you to control the way your party fights, with more difficult battles expecting you to make use of it extensively to react to what the enemies are doing and manage your party's strategies. Like a good action RPG, it's a game where I can forgive the fact that only one PC is controlled directly because with the speed of the game it simply would not be possible to control all three.

Several more decisions surrounding battle are good and need to be noted. First of all, MP is gone, so you can focus on just managing and surviving each battle instead of trying to horde it away for an unforseen rainy day, which generally makes things more fun I find, putting the emphasis further on individual memorable fights. There are plenty of choices to be made when assembling a party, as each PC varies not only by stats but their available roles and skillsets... and the PCs furthermore get full CP (Exp, essentially) when out of the party so the player is free to try out different parties without screwing herself over in the long term. The game adopts a scoring system which provides the player with incentive to play well (instead of just slowly turtling through fights), which means you always have something to shoot for in battles, even the ones which are easier. And if you're bad at the game, it will start throwing shrouds at you, which have a very powerful effect on battles. I personally disliked them because they felt cheap, but I can see why they're there, to help ensure the game is ultimately completable regardless of one's skill level.

So the gameplay is new, fresh, and generally a smashing success. The writing is less so, certainly, but it still does some decidedly good things. In particular, it manages to deliver a very strong cast, in which each character has clearly fleshed out, unique motivations and comes from a unique background before the story begins. Very often this leads to the characters clashing, and combined with the generally horrid situation they find themselves in, leads to a lot of dramatic tension and quite a few good scenes. It's great to see a game put this much effort into all of its characters; they're not all likable people by any means (something I find refeshing), but they are quite interesting and play off each other well.

There's also some good setting elements in the game, those they bothered to flesh out anyway. Cocoon society bears a frightening resemblance to some of the more unpleasant aspects of our own, with a government which takes a page from Orwell and induces fear and paranoia in its own citizens to gain their compliance. It made for an enjoyable antagonist for our heroes to go up against, though sadly is really only a factor in the first half of the game.

Unfortunately, writing is also where the game makes its biggest errors. In general, the whole second half of the game feels incomplete, with far fewer cutscenes than are needed to flesh out the story the writers were trying to tell, and a considerable underutilisation of the game's second setting, Pulse. And while the PC cast is excellent, the NPC cast is virtually non-existant. One NPC has some decent romantic scenes via flashbacks, and the main villain deserves points for being a deviously effective troll who masterfully manipulates the PC cast to do what he wants, but past that there's little to like, with Rosch, a villain who the writers can't seem to decide if he's dead or not, being a particular black mark. The game, in its effort to create strong, dramatic scenes, sometimes goes too far and falls into weak melodrama merely toying senselessly with the player's emotions, with one particularly egregious example being a sequence involving one of the PCs considering (and ostensibly committing) suicide.

Though these are certainly the game's biggest faults, it's not flawless on other fronts, either. While the AI control ends up perfectly acceptable, there's still no real excuse to not allow the player to switch leaders, and to tie a leader's death to game over; it feels inelegant. And of course, the game could really afford to grant the player more choice of party and roles earlier in the game. This latter concern isn't a huge one to me (after all, plenty of RPGs never offer party choice, or offer very little, including a couple already on this year's list!) but it does lead to the feeling of a lengthy forced tutorial. If it is a tutorial, it's still a very fun one to play, and does ease one into the game's various roles and strategies before expecting you to put it all together against the nasty fights in the second half, but a little less restriction on this front would still have been nice.

The game has a few other signature decisions which I do not consider weaknesses, but I would do the game's reputation a disservice not to discuss them. First and undoubtedly foremost is the game's linearity. Without question, it is a rather linear experience. Outside of lategame FF5 and FF6 (and FF5 is a bit of a stretch), the series always has been quite linear, so this really isn't anything new, but certainly FF13 is moreso than most; the plot makes it impossible for you to backtrack until late and the dungeons don't offer much branching (though of course, neither did those of FF9 or FFX, for instance). "FF13 is linear" is a true statement, but it's a linear genre and anyway I can't see this as much of a weakness anyway. I generally prefer linear games for their ability to have tighter narratives, better balanced gameplay, and not waste my time figuring out where to go, so, of course, I'd be more inclined to view this as a positive attribute of the game anyway!

Another contraversial aspect of FF13 is its decision to do away with towns. Given the story FF13 set out to tell, towns (outside the one town-like environment it does have, Nautilus) would feel very out of place, given the PCs are on the run from the government. But even setting that aside, I don't really feel as if there's much of a loss. After recently watching the first disc of FF9 again, in which the game expects the player to waste loads of time activating plot trigger after plot trigger in the town of Lindblum (all to tell a not-exactly-intriuguing story), I can't say I miss most of them. Towns are at worst a huge timesink into things which are uninteresting, and at best a good opportunity to develop setting, but as you can see from my earlier comments I don't think FF13 failed to do so anyway.

Similarly, the game mostly did away with sidequests. While on the one hand, sidequests have the potential to add to a game inoffensively (optional content which you do or don't do at your leisure), they again would have felt out of place in the story FF13 was trying to tell (fugitives don't really have the time or the desire to do fetch quests), and again, they aren't something I especially miss, because I'd rather not have them at all than put up with bad, forced ones which waste my time. The game does eventually open up enough to have them, and they're pretty much the best type of optional content in a game (tougher bonus fights, not "find this hidden item" type garbage), when the story no longer has the PCs so pressed for time. While it's a legitimate complaint that they aren't available earlier (one I'm more sympathetic to than complaints about linearity or towns, certainly), in practice I didn't find it personally bothersome at all.

That leaves one last shout-out to the games graphics and music. It is of course fantastically pretty, which at this level is in fact definitely worth something to me, and the soundtrack, while not perfect throughout, certainly delivers some very solid tracks, and in an RPG it's always a big bonus when one of those is the most common battle theme.

Final Fantasy has, with only occasional exceptions, always been a series that has preferred to lead rather than follow. Certainly, FF13 represents a bold step in a new direction, one which chooses to emphasise certain aspects of the genre. Fortunately for me, they're the aspects I care about. It's the polar opposite of Dragon Quest IX, for me; rather than a boring retread of the genre's failings, it tries instead to step away from those and pull the genre in an interesting new direction. It's not a game without its kinks, but it was nevertheless a unique and thoroughly enjoyable experience, and only my exceptionally high opinion of Final Fantasy X prevents it from entering consideration to be my favourite game in a series that I hold in quite high esteem. And ultimately, that's enough to reign over all the other games I played this year.

The good: Some great battle design decisions, solid gameplay executed well in many memorable fights, very strong PC cast
The bad: Storytelling goes seriously downhill late, limited party/leader choice early
The ugly: The eternal internet shit-slinging over this game


That's it for this year. Hope everyone enjoyed reading.

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Meeplelard

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2012, 02:44:34 PM »
Playing Final Fantasy 4 Heroes of Light now, and reading this review, all the  "Side Quests" "Towns", "Get Item to continue plot for padding" etc.  stuff that FF13 cut down is really emphasized further, and really shows how FF13 doing that was a good thing.  Game is just so much faster paced and honestly, the two games basically display the same thing in different ways:

Both exemplify that the old style of jRPGs is NOT ideal, and in fact, rather cumbersome and annoying.  4HoL has pretty much all the archaic, classical traditions, and the game kind of suffers because of it, where as FF13 removes them and...felt better for it. 


One thing I felt you should have noted regarding towns that you didn't was why towns USE to exist.  They were breaks from gameplay, and often times to restock, upgrade weapons, use Inn to heal MP, etc.  None of this is actually needed in FF13 of course; gameplay breaks are handled by Enemy-less areas in the game (which are blatant due to lack of Invisible Random encounters), as well as long cutscenes, Inns are obsolete when you fully heal (both HP and status) each battle, and Shops are handled by Save Points, which the game has plenty of scattered.  With all these considered, Towns are now an obsolete feature that is just unnecessary for FF13, outside of "THEY'RE A TRADITIONAL ASPECT IN A jRPG!!!" complaints, which if Dragon Quest has shown us anything, staying to tradition is not always a good thing, and sometimes change is good.
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[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #68 on: February 07, 2012, 04:21:33 PM »
Quote
Plot/character stuff


Playing 13-2, I'm noticing that the game moves best plotwise it's only two characters. I don't think the decision to add monsters to the team was just for the gameplay value; it's because FF13's writing works best with a small number of characters. The game was ambitious in its' attempt at character work, so much so that it focused on the dyad dynamic to the exclusion of the game's actual plot. The fact that you have to read the datalog to really follow the plot just shows the inherent limitations of this format.  That said, the plot's not remotely deep at all. It should have been better than what it was; the concept is pretty simple in concept and neat enough. Just the execution is hurt by the very premise of why you split up (Fugitives on the run!) and the game doesn't give you enough looks at the broader world to give you a real feeling for it. That said, I was bored out of my mind by chapter 8's stuff, so I don't know if it could have been worked into FF13 effectively. It's much quicker to read a cutscene than it is to wait for a fully animated and VA'ed scene to play out.


FF13 also feels like a game where they wrote the plot up to C9, realized that they didn't have enough gameplay, and tacked on extra chapters.

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FF9 fails at life, RPG towns


This strikes me as more of a knock on PSX games than anything else. To rehash an example I used earlier in PM:  Lufia 2 and FF9 have a similiar amount of gameplay, with the former having a lot of puzzle elements in it's dungeons. The latter is roughly double in length. It isn't because FF9 has tons more plot- it does have dialog and cutscenes, but a lot of that is just generic filler/sidequests and hardware limitations.

The entire PSX era is characterized by a lot of bloat and missed chances. The smashing success of FF7 did a lot for RPGs- it was ambitious on a scale that the console RPG genre hadn't seen before and was one of the first that strayed from the typical swords and spells setting. FF7 also had one of the best RPG towns of all time and one of the most celebrated scenes of all time (Midgar and Aeris getting Masamuned respectively). It's flaws are obvious in retrospect but it's still a good game.

It was also a generation too early- the playstation era did not have the hardware nor the translation, writing, budget and effective VA to make most games of FF7's scale work.  Ask a SO2 fan about the Lacour tournament of arms and you are going to get profanity. Ask a XG fan about disk 2 and you get mutters about them running out of money. Ask anyone about Dragon Quest 7's intro of pain and you are going to get stabbed, ask a Suikoden 2 fan about the translation and get tears, etc.

It's amazing what developers took from FF7. No, it wasn't the cutscenes and forced minigames (Though FF7 had some fun ones and rewarded you for them); it was a cool gameplay system and a lot of good plot work. You can't recreate Midgar in every game, or hell more than once a game- FF7's worst arc hands down was the fucking Cosmo Canyon stuff, where it kept you way too long with characters you don't care about.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 04:45:25 PM by superaielman »
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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2012, 05:24:11 PM »
Reading all this, it rather amuses me that I'd prolly give DQ9 and FF13 the same 7-8 range score.

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Grefter

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2012, 09:53:48 PM »
As I tried desperately to get to sleep last night I was stuck dwelling on this.  Not because RARRGH FF13 BLOWS CHUNKS but because all the reason Elf likes FF13 are things I hate in it, but strikes me as them being the exact things I love in Mass Effect 2.

So yeah.  Then I got stuck on the "I really want to see how Elf takes to that series" tangent, but I am tentative because I am pretty sure he won't like it.  Most likely not the first one at least (which is rife with all the issues of piles of cruft), but jumping straight into the second one would not have the same comparison.

Now even I am not self indulgent enough to demand someone play two games that I don't think they will like just to see their response as a thought experiment (it would be a cheap one though!  Hell I would shell out for both games if you were interested). 

One thing I really got stuck on is, put in a world with tons of entirely optional content, how would NEB take to ME1 and just how does a completely minimal play through of ME1 play out.

Then with ME2 how would he handle the optional crew missions, that really are optional but the game beats it over your head that you should probs do these.  Then there is the whole "well if he does them and enjoys them, would he do DLC missions".

So congratulations Elf.  You have me running through the kind of thought experiment I normally dream about seeing results of mc interacting with things.


Edit - Also because I hate myself and can't keep any personal promises.   Possible solution to FF13 pacing.

Save anywhere.  Save points now function entirely just as shops.  Turn these into Camp spots like BoF 4.  Thoughts on that elves?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 09:55:21 PM by Grefter »
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jsh357

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2012, 10:15:15 PM »
Save anywhere.  Save points now function entirely just as shops.  Turn these into Camp spots like BoF 4.  Thoughts on that elves?

FF13-2 has this.  It's one of the better changes.

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2012, 10:35:40 PM »
The whole thing or just save anywhere?  (Camp style short breaks seems odd for 2 person interaction, but cool, whatevs)
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2012, 10:51:00 PM »
Oh, I meant just saving anywhere.  It also saves automatically, which I'm a little less fond of since there's monster recruiting but what can you do.

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Re: Elfboy's 2011 Game Retrospectives
« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2012, 11:09:01 PM »
As I tried desperately to get to sleep last night I was stuck dwelling on this.  Not because RARRGH FF13 BLOWS CHUNKS but because all the reason Elf likes FF13 are things I hate in it, but strikes me as them being the exact things I love in Mass Effect 2.


Stripping out "filler" has different effects on different things.  You interact more directly with ME, you know, move with the stick, act with buttons.  Exploration in FF games is one of the times in jRPGs where you are getting this kind of gameplay, and FF13 really doesn't have much of that.  When you cut down on the "filler" in ME, it's cutting down on menu navigation.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 11:10:58 PM by Rob the Stampede »