Author Topic: Pround Grounds Week 2 Middle- Moogles, FF13, and goth necromancers.  (Read 1336 times)

superaielman

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In: Hope, Lightning
Out: Sazh

New this week: Our fighters are up against former Middle champions. Should make for a tough contest. (And yes, this is a ton of voting. Do one character at a time, no rush.)

October: One of CTSW cast members. Takes hits like Edge takes hints.
Mog: High drawing, Middle of the road Middle. Kupo!

Hope vs Sgt Joe (S3)
Hope vs Delita (FFT)
Hope vs Margulis (XS)
Hope vs Venusaur (PKMN)
Hope vs Berserk (WA1)
Hope vs Selan (Lufia 2)
Hope vs Toadstool (SMRPG)
Hope vs Silmeria (VP2)
Hope vs Rutee (ToD)
Hope vs Zalbard (SF2)
Hope vs Elena (G2)
Hope vs Beowulf (FFT)

Lightning vs Sgt Joe (S3)
Lightning vs Delita (FFT)
Lightning vs Margulis (XS)
Lightning vs Venusaur (PKMN)
Lightning vs Berserk (WA1)
Lightning vs Selan (Lufia 2)
Lightning vs Toadstool (SMRPG)
Lightning vs Silmeria (VP2)
Lightning vs Rutee (ToD)
Lightning vs Zalbard (SF2)
Lightning vs Elena (G2)
Lightning vs Beowulf (FFT)

October vs Sgt Joe (S3)
October vs Delita (FFT)
October vs Margulis (XS)
October vs Venusaur (PKMN)
October vs Berserk (WA1)
October vs Selan (Lufia 2)
October vs Toadstool (SMRPG)
October vs Silmeria (VP2)
October vs Rutee (ToD)
October vs Zalbard (SF2)
October vs Elena (G2)
October vs Beowulf (FFT)

Mog (FF6) vs Sgt Joe (S3)
Mog vs Delita (FFT)
Mog vs Margulis (XS)
Mog vs Venusaur (PKMN)
Mog vs Berserk (WA1)
Mog vs Selan (Lufia 2)
Mog vs Toadstool (SMRPG)
Mog vs Silmeria (VP2)
Mog vs Rutee (ToD)
Mog vs Zalbard (SF2)
Mog vs Elena (G2)
Mog vs Beowulf (FFT)
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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Pyro

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Re: Pround Grounds Week 2 Middle- Moogles, FF13, and goth necromancers.
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2012, 06:35:59 AM »
Hope vs Sgt Joe (S3): ...
Hope vs Delita (FFT): Gets him with something inevitably.
Hope vs Venusaur (PKMN): Sleep?
Hope vs Berserk (WA1): Boom.
Hope vs Selan (Lufia 2): Should be able to work an IP.
Hope vs Toadstool (SMRPG): Status?
Hope vs Silmeria (VP2): Status?
Hope vs Rutee (ToD): More Status?
Hope vs Zalbard (SF2): Overwhelming damage?
Hope vs Elena (G2): ... MORE status?
Hope vs Beowulf (FFT): Shell can ward off status here?

Lightning vs Sgt Joe (S3): I think... better healing and chances for severe damage.
Lightning vs Delita (FFT): Status lock and a good slugger.
Lightning vs Venusaur (PKMN): Sleep?
Lightning vs Berserk (WA1): Berserk hurts things huh?
Lightning vs Selan (Lufia 2): Tons of healing, IP.
Lightning vs Toadstool (SMRPG): Healing and status.
Lightning vs Silmeria (VP2): Status and damage.
Lightning vs Rutee (ToD): Buffing/status/healing/damage.
Lightning vs Zalbard (SF2): I think he overwhelms her.
Lightning vs Elena (G2): Sleep.
Lightning vs Beowulf (FFT): Status.

October vs Sgt Joe (S3): Silent Lake is slower than even October. ID.
October vs Delita (FFT): ID immune?
October vs Venusaur (PKMN): Sleep?
October vs Berserk (WA1)
October vs Selan (Lufia 2)
October vs Toadstool (SMRPG): Status first.
October vs Silmeria (VP2)
October vs Rutee (ToD): Silence.
October vs Zalbard (SF2)
October vs Elena (G2)
October vs Beowulf (FFT): ID immunity.

Mog (FF6) vs Sgt Joe (S3): I guess SL wouldn't stop dancing.
Mog vs Delita (FFT)
Mog vs Venusaur (PKMN)
Mog vs Berserk (WA1)
Mog vs Selan (Lufia 2): Magic damage/status immunity/healing?
Mog vs Toadstool (SMRPG)
Mog vs Silmeria (VP2): Wasn't she ITD with the Blue Gale?
Mog vs Rutee (ToD)
Mog vs Zalbard (SF2): His big damage was lightning?
Mog vs Elena (G2): Sleep and magic damage?
Mog vs Beowulf (FFT): Blanking on this one.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 06:48:29 AM by Pyro »

superaielman

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Re: Pround Grounds Week 2 Middle- Moogles, FF13, and goth necromancers.
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2012, 06:54:38 AM »
Hope vs Sgt Joe (S3)- Silent Lake.
Hope vs Delita (FFT)- Way too much offense. Delita's not far from OHKOing and Hope can't resist all the status at once.
Hope vs Margulis (XS)- Think so. Margulis is dangerously fast, but his offense is pretty inept early. Hope gets time to buff up and can chip Margulis down. Acala Seal gets a Summon in response. Up for arguments on this one.
Hope vs Venusaur (PKMN)- Hope can't block sleep.
Hope vs Berserk (WA1)- Getting to go first and use protect/veil gives him the win.
Hope vs Selan (Lufia 2)- OHKO with buffed Holy Energy.
Hope vs Toadstool (SMRPG)- Sleep.
Hope vs Silmeria (VP2)
Hope vs Rutee (ToD)-EDIT: Sharpness stacking does it.
Hope vs Zalbard (SF2)- *Splat*
Hope vs Elena (G2)- Veil counters nightmare staff and gives Hope enough time to get buffed..
Hope vs Beowulf (FFT)- Status. Veil helps some here, but Hope has trouble making any kind of damage stick.

Lightning vs Sgt Joe (S3)- Better healing.
Lightning vs Delita (FFT)- Delita 2HKOs, Light doesn't 2HKO. Healing gets her statused by Holy Sword.
Lightning vs Margulis (XS)- Medic healing carries the day.
Lightning vs Venusaur (PKMN)- Sleep.
Lightning vs Berserk (WA1)- Not much Berserk respect.
Lightning vs Selan (Lufia 2)- Slight speed advantage lets her carry the day.
Lightning vs Toadstool (SMRPG)
Lightning vs Silmeria (VP2)- Status.
Lightning vs Rutee (ToD)- Light doesn't 2HKO.
Lightning vs Zalbard (SF2)
Lightning vs Elena (G2)- Sleep!
Lightning vs Beowulf (FFT)- Status.

Mog (FF6) vs Sgt Joe (S3)- Not Joe's type of fight.
Mog vs Delita (FFT)- Crush Punch.
Mog vs Margulis (XS)- Acala Seal. This match is sad beyond my abilities to describe otherwise.
Mog vs Venusaur (PKMN)- Abstain for now.
Mog vs Berserk (WA1)- Spoils.
Mog vs Selan (Lufia 2)- Yeah, Mog can't status or outlast here (She has literally forever to build up a nasty combo) EDIT: Vote changed, see below.
Mog vs Toadstool (SMRPG)- I think sleep's enough.
Mog vs Silmeria (VP2)- No stone=*Squish* EDIT: ITD.  Ouch.
Mog vs Rutee (ToD)- OW.
Mog vs Zalbard (SF2)- Bolt 2.
Mog vs Elena (G2)- Sleep.
Mog vs Beowulf (FFT)- Status.

Mog: 4-8
Hope: 3-9
Light: 2-10
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 09:01:52 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Random Consonant

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Re: Pround Grounds Week 2 Middle- Moogles, FF13, and goth necromancers.
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2012, 08:51:14 AM »
October vs Delita (FFT) - sure, I'm willing to credit him with ID immunity.
October vs Venusaur (PKMN) - sleep duration odds favor Venusaur here.
October vs Berserk (WA1) - October vs. boss
October vs Selan (Lufia 2) - oh good half-filled IP bar means I don't have to deride bunny ring hype
October vs Toadstool (SMRPG) - October no likey status that's faster than her.
October vs Rutee (ToD) - silence
October vs Zalbard (SF2) - October vs. boss
October vs Elena (G2) - dat slp
October vs Beowulf (FFT) - status
0 - 9, everyone here either immunes ID or goes before her and statuses her out of the fight, sucks to be October.

Mog vs Delita (FFT) - dat crush punch
Mog vs Venusaur (PKMN) - dat sleep
Mog vs Berserk (WA1) - dat wa1o berserk
Mog vs Selan (Lufia 2) - oh man bunny ring hype how do I feel about that
Mog vs Toadstool (SMRPG) - Sleep probably slows Mog down enough yeah
Mog vs Rutee (ToD) - yep
Mog vs Zalbard (SF2) - sure, dat bolt2 - okay bolt2 wasn't as good as I thought it was, vote changed
Mog vs Elena (G2) - mrf
Mog vs Beowulf (FFT) - dem statuses
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 06:19:15 PM by Random Consonant »

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Pround Grounds Week 2 Middle- Moogles, FF13, and goth necromancers.
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2012, 12:07:34 PM »

Mog vs Silmeria (VP2)- No stone=*Squish*

Um Silmeria has ITD and ITE damage with Blue Gale. She should just 3HKO Mog at worst (she doesn't want Flame Shot there due to lol resistance, so no 2HKO).
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superaielman

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Re: Pround Grounds Week 2 Middle- Moogles, FF13, and goth necromancers.
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2012, 08:58:47 PM »
Mog/Selan stuff.

I had a lot of numbercrunching and thinking involved in this fight about gear and defense and setup, but you know? Selan can't really ever kill him. Yes, she can annoy the hell out of him with sleep, but that is *extremely* unreliable as far as duration goes. On top of that, she has to block ID and confuse so her equip cheese options are limited.  Selan can win eventually, but needs to get three turns in a row and have the IP for a fully buffed out Holy Energy and not miss. So it's going to take forever.


Mog uses Earth Blues. That gives him a couple of things he needs to win. A: It gives Land Slide, which is literally 40.0000000001% damage. Selan is a fraction of a percent from being heal locked or not by that.  It also gives her Sonic Boom, which inflicts Seizure and is a strong gravity attack. I'm not giving her immunity to Seizure (It feels generous to allow her the bunny stuff to start with, and any type of gravity attack in L2 can't really be blocked so to hell with that). That means that she is unquestionably heal locked here. That means that any combo of Sonic Boom+damage is fatal. That means that  Land Slide+Land Slide is a heal lock, Sonic Boom+Landslide and Whump are a heal lock. The other thing Earth Blues has is healing, which means she can't just wear him down with Flash. Mog's putting pressure on her from the getgo, and Selan can't do that until she's buffed way up. Selan *could* win in theory, but there's way too much pressure on her to get a lot of low chance events to trip at once.


Yes, FF6 seizure just won Mog a match. I haven't seen anything that pathetic since the last time Onix/Chancey came up in a match. Vote changed.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Pround Grounds Week 2 Middle- Moogles, FF13, and goth necromancers.
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2012, 06:28:40 AM »
Hope vs Sgt Joe (S3): Silent Lake.
Hope vs Delita (FFT): Yeah, this doesn't feel like something Hope can deal with.
Hope vs Margulis (XS): Full-HP Margulis is kind of a wuss, Hope casts Haste/Protect/Shell/Barfire/Barthunder/Faith and should coast through any threats.
Hope vs Venusaur (PKMN): Hope can resist sleep, at a stat hit of some sort. Veil makes it like turn... 8 or something, which buys him enough time. So Haste/Veil, then Faith/Enfire, then smaaash.
Hope vs Berserk (WA1): Ow. Yeah Protect isn't saving Hope even if he gets it off, I don't think.
Hope vs Selan (Lufia 2): Yeah, Holy Energy's a OHKO. But Selan can't do too much to pressure, even sleep's not great since she can't capitalise on it and Hope can cast Veil. It feels like Hope can stall for a summon here, even if he can't blitz for a direct kill which is possible.
Hope vs Toadstool (SMRPG): Resist Fog, Haste/Veil, Faith/Protect, start putting on the pressure from there? She's magically tanky enough to avoid a 2HKO, though, so she can wait until silence lands and then lol-win, I think. I guess she might run out of FP or something but eh.
Hope vs Silmeria (VP2): Puts on the pressure with Stone, which is something Hope can't really handle.
Hope vs Zalbard (SF2): Anything Hope does with his first turn besides healing gets him killed immediately, and healing's a lock.
Hope vs Elena (G2): Nightmare Ball against resistance. No, I don't think so. Hope goes first so Veil's making it even worse!
Hope vs Beowulf (FFT): Veil makes Break turn 3, so it's still comin'. Haste means Hope has a 4-3. So can he 3-round with Ruin? Well... even if he can, Beo can Drain and force Hope to heal (lest Shock be fatal), which buys him more turns probably even with the turn disadvantage. Plus Aegis Shield hype. Yeah, Beo has the edge.

Lightning vs Sgt Joe (S3): I think he can just overwhelm her healing, despite being a bit slow? Close.
Lightning vs Delita (FFT): 2HKOs, isn't 2HKOed.
Lightning vs Margulis (XS): Not 100% sure on this one, but... let's go with it.
Lightning vs Venusaur (PKMN): Don't think sleep resistance is enough, here, especially since it carries a bit of a stat hit. Heck, Venusaur may just outslug with Razor Leaf.
Lightning vs Berserk (WA1): Smash. 3x weakness means Ravager is Lightning's best damage for once, but... it's not enough.
Lightning vs Selan (Lufia 2): As with Hope, stall forever, don't give her IP, and the sleep isn't scary.
Lightning vs Toadstool (SMRPG): Much like the Joe fight, her damage is good enough. Mute's an option, too.
Lightning vs Silmeria (VP2): Stone physicals.
Lightning vs Zalbard (SF2): Ouch.
Lightning vs Elena (G2): Resource differences. Sleep resistance means that avenue's out, of course.
Lightning vs Beowulf (FFT): Stone.

October vs Sgt Joe (S3): She's almost as slow as Silent Lake! Not quite.
October vs Delita (FFT): Death immune.
October vs Margulis (XS)
October vs Venusaur (PKMN): Sleep.
October vs Berserk (WA1): Smash.
October vs Selan (Lufia 2): When in doubt, agree with Random re Bunny Ring.
October vs Toadstool (SMRPG): October after Mute is a sad creature.
October vs Silmeria (VP2): Death resist in there ices it.
October vs Zalbard (SF2)
October vs Elena (G2): Eh sure, no sleep res at all probably lets Elena win.
October vs Beowulf (FFT)

Mog (FF6) vs Sgt Joe (S3): Yeah, Dance proceeds fine, and physicals aren't going to work here.
Mog vs Delita (FFT): I think this is right.
Mog vs Margulis (XS): Oh god this fight. Oh god. Mog has a 10HKO with physicals, which is better than what Margulis has, don't think the speed makes the difference there. Still, evade, right. Make that more of a 15HKO. Yeah, okay, Mog has to dance. He can 7HKO with Earth Blues, every other turn, so that's what he needs to power through Acala Seal. But the healing's only one every 8 turns then. Is that enough? I... don't think so, not quite. Margulis has those extra turns from doubles and can even summon shadows against the purely ST Earth Blues for a little help and maybe a Medica.
Mog vs Venusaur (PKMN): Sleep and magic damage!
Mog vs Berserk (WA1): Kneejerk is Mog outslugs the purely physical Berserk. Earth Blues should do it.
Mog vs Selan (Lufia 2): Sure I'll buy this SEIZURE hype.
Mog vs Toadstool (SMRPG): Toadstool just doesn't have the damage needed here, Mog can take his time and stall her out with a healing dance if he wants.
Mog vs Silmeria (VP2): ITD.
Mog vs Rutee (ToD)
Mog vs Zalbard (SF2): Zalbard has... four shots of ~6HKO Bolt 2, followed by infinite 8HKO. I think Mog can probably handle that with a healing dance, though obviously not certain.
Mog vs Elena (G2): Mog absorbs her only worthwhile magic damage. Unless... did White Apocalypse turn out to be magic? Even if it did, I don't think it saves her, she needs that SP for Nightmare Ball, which won't lock down Mog forever. Hello instant death.
Mog vs Beowulf (FFT): Paralysis then... oh god what does he uses here. I guess he blocks death and confuse and wins eventually regardless, either with Shock or something.

Surprised at how well Mog did. Good field for him?

Hope 4-7
Lightning 3-8
October 2-9
Mog 6-5

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superaielman

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Re: Pround Grounds Week 2 Middle- Moogles, FF13, and goth necromancers.
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2012, 01:51:15 PM »
FF13 had sleep?

Quote
Lightning vs Elena (G2): Resource differences. Sleep resistance means that avenue's out, of course.

Light is not 2HKOing Elena with commando Hope/Vanille in the averages, and that means she has enough time to magic/move block her out. Even if she did get 2HKOed, Diggin/speedy would help tip it the other way.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 02:57:52 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

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Re: Pround Grounds Week 2 Middle- Moogles, FF13, and goth necromancers.
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2012, 05:24:17 PM »
Oh right, apparently G2 Magic Block is supposed to actually last forever or something, which isn't what I remember and certainly not how it worked in G3 but yeah that would probably give Elena the match.

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Re: Pround Grounds Week 2 Middle- Moogles, FF13, and goth necromancers.
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2012, 03:26:08 AM »
Hope vs Sgt Joe (S3)
Hope vs Delita (FFT)
Hope vs Margulis (XS)- Um... yeah sure.
Hope vs Venusaur (PKMN)- Venu does go down quick once Hope is sufficiently prepared, so Veil seems like enough time to get on with.
Hope vs Berserk (WA1)
Hope vs Selan (Lufia 2)
Hope vs Toadstool (SMRPG)
Hope vs Silmeria (VP2)
Hope vs Zalbard (SF2)
Hope vs Elena (G2)- Hum.  Wait, Silence takes forever to hit, nevermind.
Hope vs Beowulf (FFT)

4-7.  There's a reason 5 of these guys upgraded.

Lightning vs Sgt Joe (S3)- Feels better at the same basic game, doesn't need to heal as much and a good string of crits should happen before he runs out of resources (SL probably takes too long to cast here.)
Lightning vs Delita (FFT)
Lightning vs Margulis (XS)
Lightning vs Venusaur (PKMN)
Lightning vs Berserk (WA1)
Lightning vs Selan (Lufia 2)- I'm sure something in her IP repertoire is sufficient.
Lightning vs Toadstool (SMRPG)
Lightning vs Silmeria (VP2)
Lightning vs Zalbard (SF2)
Lightning vs Elena (G2)
Lightning vs Beowulf (FFT)

1-10

October vs Sgt Joe (S3)
October vs Delita (FFT)
October vs Margulis (XS)
October vs Venusaur (PKMN)
October vs Berserk (WA1)
October vs Selan (Lufia 2)
October vs Toadstool (SMRPG)
October vs Silmeria (VP2)
October vs Zalbard (SF2)
October vs Elena (G2)- Yeah, I suppose Elena isn't quite that slow.
October vs Beowulf (FFT)

2-9

Mog (FF6) vs Sgt Joe (S3)
Mog vs Delita (FFT)- mm.  Yeah, I suppose Crush Punch does trigger before Mog gets a useful status here.
Mog vs Margulis (XS)
Mog vs Venusaur (PKMN)- Wait, FFVI doesn't get sleep?  Huh.  I think Paralyze is enough anyway, but that certainly makes it simpler.
Mog vs Berserk (WA1)
Mog vs Selan (Lufia 2)
Mog vs Toadstool (SMRPG)
Mog vs Silmeria (VP2)
Mog vs Zalbard (SF2)
Mog vs Elena (G2)
Mog vs Beowulf (FFT)

5-6
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