Author Topic: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64  (Read 2366 times)

Nephrite

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2052
  • President of the Great United States of America
    • View Profile
Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« on: February 07, 2012, 08:40:32 PM »


"Hmph... another person venturing into my depths. Let's see if you can survive."


Link to the Dungeon Wiki!

----------------
Team Glen | Virginia, Red, Sharanda, Emma, (Speed?)  Eiko
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team Glen vs. Hrist (VP1), Evil Gaia, Big Joe, Guido and Gorudo
Team Glen vs. Bronzog, FFT Knight and Kwanda Rossman (S1)
Team Glen vs. Blissey, Axem Green, Augst and Lucius
Team Glen vs. Mist Dragon, Whelk, Wingraptor (FF5) and Garland (FF1)
Team Glen vs. Laggy Fantasy Tactics Queklain

Team MICHAEL | Ramza, Feena, Rosa+Rydia(Body Charge), Ditto
[Ramza: Squire, Item, MDefense UP, Auto Potion | Feena: All Eggs]
[Chemist/Knight/Wizard/Time Mage/Samurai mastered]
Floor 5b: Ribbon Almark
*Status does not have an effect on this floor. Attacks which inflict status will still do damage but not status.
Team MICHAEL vs. Alys and Seth
Team MICHAEL vs. Adachi, Shadow Teddie and Shadow Naoto
Team MICHAEL vs. Queklain and Velius
Team MICHAEL vs. Dehuai, Wugui and Albert Simon
Team MICHAEL vs. Defender X and Evrae

Team Magic | Yuri 2, Shania, Blanca, Ricardo, Lucia  (Synergy)
[Floor 9: Sealstone Revenge]
*This team's damage and other abilities should be scaled against Technical Ring to Normal Ring averages where appropriate, as well as aftergame to normal averages on stats.
Team Magic vs. Terra, Riou, Wakka and Alicia (VP2) (Status Symbol Law)
Team Magic vs. Eiko, Raquel, Aeris, Gilder, Enrique and Marco (Violent Burst Law)
Team Magic vs. Tidus (Sonic Steel) (Neo Speed), Jane and Clarissa
Team Magic vs. Ricardo, Purim, Artea, Yulie, Nina4, Nina1 and Lucius (All with Life Sealstone)
Team Magic vs. Ephraim, Ryu1, Mewtwo and Marle (All with Body Charge)

Status Symbol Law - Team is fully status, debuff and ID immune, but has damage done to them increased by 1.1x and damage done by them decreased to .9x.

Violent Burst Law - Characters with system-specific gauges begin the floor with them filled. These gauges do not charge during the floor by any other means.

Neo Speed - The effective speed of one character is increased by 25% and increases by 25% each time that character takes a turn, this effect caps at 200% base speed. The speed of this character cannot be increased in any way, nor can this character grant or be granted turns via any manner. If the character dies the speed is removed and cannot be regained.

Life - One character's healing effects now also allows for revival, but reduces the final effect of any healing to 75%. (This means full healing is always 75%) The healing also only revives characters with 1 HP. The healing received from spells that hit more than one target may be used as revival once per battle.

Blanca: Naberius (Gale, Gale Spike, Arc Gale), Andrealphus (Aqua Edge, Heat Edge, Entrance), Gaap (Earth Resist, Rock Crest, Air Crest)
Lucia: Aim (Rage, Shield, Gale, Heat Edge), Murmur (Raise Up, Resurrection), Malphas (Entrance, Gale Spark, Bright Crime), Solomon (Melt Crest)
Ricardo: *Entrance, *Arc Heal, *Resurrection, *Melt Crest, Arc Cure, Heat Edge, Gale, Arc Mirage, Red Bounce, Gale Blast, Arc Gale


Body Charge - Increases the health, damage and effective speed of a character by 1.3x and decreases damage to them to .7x

Resourceless - One character's spells and abilities are now free but you may not use the same ability more than once a fight. This does not apply to moves that drain all resources.

Speed? - The effective speed of one character is set to 120% (1.2x) average speed and may not be increased in any way. The rest of the team's speed is set to 95% (.95) of its normal value and may be increased.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 09:52:04 PM by Nephrite »

Nephrite

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2052
  • President of the Great United States of America
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2012, 08:43:07 PM »
Team MICHAEL | Ramza, Feena, Rosa+Rydia(Body Charge), Ditto
[Ramza: Squire, Item, MDefense UP, Auto Potion | Feena: All Eggs]
[Chemist/Knight/Wizard/Time Mage/Samurai mastered]
Floor 5b: Ribbon Almark
*Status does not have an effect on this floor. Attacks which inflict status will still do damage but not status.
Team MICHAEL vs. Alys and Seth - Oh no Alys will get off Saner and then nothing else will happen.
Team MICHAEL vs. Adachi, Shadow Teddie and Shadow Naoto - These guys do have a lot of damage between them but Teddie's good stuff is at 1/2 HP. Pretty easy to focus on Adachi, then Naoto.
Team MICHAEL vs. Queklain and Velius - These two likewise have good damage, but it's easy enough to focus on one and get rid of them.
Team MICHAEL vs. Dehuai, Wugui and Albert Simon - Their physicals can probably take out Rydia... but it doesn't really matter, there's no pressure they can put on due to the healing.
Team MICHAEL vs. Defender X and Evrae - This fight is funny... Evrae and Defender can kill anyone they want... but I don't think it matters. Items + Feena revives. Ditto can turn into Evrae at worst and then throw out some Hastes.


Dhyer, once you finalize your team I'll add it.

dude789

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1284
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2012, 09:05:52 PM »
I was curious to see how Magic's team would do on the speed fight so I hashed it out last week. The good news is that everyone on Magic's team can revive, the bad news is that they're all vulnerable to Slow and with the way SH speed works, speed halving is pretty devastating. So once all of the buffs and stuff are up Tidus should get around 5 turns per 1 of Magic's team, Clarissa gets 6 + any Rob Turn turns and Jane gets 7 because she's stupid fast.
So Tidus opens with Slowga, Jane goes next and uses Follow Me so Clarissa can start her stuff going earlier and Clarissa starts robbing turns. It's the first turn so no ones speed is up to the nutso levels until Tidus uses Hastega, but Jane should still get 4, Clarissa 3+Rob Turns and Tidus the Hastega turn and probably one more. The problem, is that unlike Team Snowfire, Magic's team doesn't have the evasion and slow immunity to force  Tidus, Clarissa and Jane to all focus on shutting down the team. Clarissa and Tidus can take turns shutting down the team as MP allows while Jane can focus on offense, which becomes significant since she's getting six attacks a turn (6 shots + 1 reload).

So Clarissa starts off with the Rob Turning.  She has enough MP for 8 + some sacrifices so she rob's everyone's turns and Jane starts shooting Blanca to lower his hp. We'll be nice and say that she misses 2 Rob Turns this round, but she gets enough extra turns from her own speed to absorb the two misses and also use her last turn of the round to Sacrifice Blanca out to avoid his limit speed boost. Blanca's out and Ricardo has taken a Tidus hit.

Turn two starts, and the speed game is in full effect. Tidus's speed isn't completely there yet, but it's close so he should still get at least 4 turns. Clarissa uses her last Rob Turn and Jane starts shooting Ricardo. Jane's damage by itself is bad, but with six attacks it adds up fast. 6 attacks + the Tidus hit from last turn should add up to something like 2.6 PCHP. More than enough to take out Ricardo. Tidus Delay Attacks everyone but Ricardo and Clarissa starts shooting Yuri for a little damage with a Sacrifice thrown in there if she wants.

The same thing takes place again next turn with at least 1 character being taken out a turn. After Slowga and Hastega, Tidus has about 92 MP or 11 Delay Hits and that gives him more than enough to take out the team in time especially since it takes fewer each turn. (3 then 3 then 2 then 1) He's also getting a limit somewhere and since Jane doesn't need the MP for Follow Me, she can blow it all on her I'll Show You move once her FP gets up there. It's not that good, but it's MT and just adds more to the damage pile. Magic's team is just really ill equipped to handle this fight. His team is scary when they get a turn, but they're not getting any here. Fail for team Magic, will hash out other teams later.

Edit: Alternate simple version, Nina 1  uses her initiative Ag Up buff on Purim. Purim outspeeds the team and Blaze Walls. 
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 11:20:42 PM by dude789 »

Nephrite

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2052
  • President of the Great United States of America
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2012, 09:35:24 PM »
I fucked up Magic's Crests, he does still have Melt Crest. Sorry!

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2202
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2012, 10:06:20 PM »
Team MICHAEL | Ramza, Feena, Rosa+Rydia(Body Charge), Ditto
[Ramza: Squire, Item, MDefense UP, Auto Potion | Feena: All Eggs]
[Chemist/Knight/Wizard/Time Mage/Samurai mastered]
Floor 5b: Ribbon Almark
*Status does not have an effect on this floor. Attacks which inflict status will still do damage but not status.
Team MICHAEL vs. Alys and Seth - Not seeing how these two accomplish much
Team MICHAEL vs. Adachi, Shadow Teddie and Shadow Naoto - Shadow Teddie apparently only starts getting (low) 2HKO damage when he's been beaten up some, but before that he's stuck with mighty 4HKOs.  Shadow Naoto and Adachi are a bit better and can probably kill someone if the two get turns but they all have last strike and Adachi isn't exactly hard to get rid of.
Team MICHAEL vs. Queklain and Velius - Cyclops is nasty but the attached charge time, even with Velius's innate Short Charge, basically means that there's no real way the team isn't beating it out.  Quekky by himself isn't much of a threat.
Team MICHAEL vs. Dehuai, Wugui and Albert Simon- Yeaaah the pressure isn't really here.
Team MICHAEL vs. Defender X and Evrae - So Defender X and Evrae can kill someone with their physicals if their turns line up.  Okay.  Chances are, however, that person is not going to be Ramza.  Haymaker is a concern since it OHKOs anyone here but I'm not sure if I let Defender X spam it and beyond that I think they can manage.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4953
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2012, 01:28:54 AM »
Quick response on one item.

Quote
Edit: Alternate simple version, Nina 1  uses her initiative Ag Up buff on Purim. Purim outspeeds the team and Blaze Walls.

Checked the stat topic, and Ag Up is a pretty sad speed booster.  It's +20 Speed in a game with an average of 113 so at best it's a 17.7% speed buff.  But this is BoF1, a game with a gigantic standard deviation - Karn is 187, Ox is 47.  A hypothetical perfectly average BoF character beats 4/8 of the cast, and after Ag Up beats...  3/8 of the cast, and is only beating #4 Ryu baaarely (113+20 > 131).  So... more like +10%.  Which actually would be enough vs. Magic's team normally since SH has a tight speed curve, but this is with aftergame stats, so unless speed stops growing at some point (possible!), Magic probably gets a turn in.  And isn't Blaze Wall ST anyway?  And I'd call it blocked by Paralysis blockers which SH has aplenty regardless.  So...   no.

Entirely possible Magic still fails, but it'll be against the Tidus fight if anywhere.

dude789

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1284
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2012, 03:00:28 AM »
Quick response on one item.

Quote
Edit: Alternate simple version, Nina 1  uses her initiative Ag Up buff on Purim. Purim outspeeds the team and Blaze Walls.

Checked the stat topic, and Ag Up is a pretty sad speed booster.  It's +20 Speed in a game with an average of 113 so at best it's a 17.7% speed buff.  But this is BoF1, a game with a gigantic standard deviation - Karn is 187, Ox is 47.  A hypothetical perfectly average BoF character beats 4/8 of the cast, and after Ag Up beats...  3/8 of the cast, and is only beating #4 Ryu baaarely (113+20 > 131).  So... more like +10%.  Which actually would be enough vs. Magic's team normally since SH has a tight speed curve, but this is with aftergame stats, so unless speed stops growing at some point (possible!), Magic probably gets a turn in.  And isn't Blaze Wall ST anyway?  And I'd call it blocked by Paralysis blockers which SH has aplenty regardless.  So...   no.

Entirely possible Magic still fails, but it'll be against the Tidus fight if anywhere.

Blaze Wall can be MTed, and Engulfed being blocked by Paralysis blockers is kind of shaky. I'd say Paralysis is closer to SoM Balloon than anything else, and speed wise it's close either way. She'd only have to outspeed Ricardo who's the slower of the two since Blanca can't really do anything to stop Blaze Wall from happening. I know some people also give her some speed credit due to casting being faster than physicals.

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2012, 05:30:39 AM »
So this Ribbon floor affects both enemy and ally status I'm guessing? I'd assume both, but honestly, every single enemy fight is highly dependent on status to be effective. All these enemies can really manage to do is OHKO is single person or never anyone more. For Evrae, stat topic implies that there is no free access to Haste as it says that it comes only into play with bad damage, which implies that it can only be used as a counter below 33% HP.
...into the nightfall.

Nephrite

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2052
  • President of the Great United States of America
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2012, 05:36:38 AM »
Yes, that's correct. I probably low-balled the floor too much.

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2012, 06:00:53 AM »
The concept also completely stomps on the single thing the SS sealstone had for it (Mauling Floor 5 for free in trade of being kind of horrid the first three floors).
...into the nightfall.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4953
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2012, 06:07:10 AM »
Yeah, Team MICHAEL passes easily.  The last fight...  is this locked-close range Evrae?  Because it's definitely controllable in-game.  The team just leaves Evrae at long range and just ignore it.  Meanwhile Defender X apparently has a hard lock of Haymaker every 4 rounds, no faster.  I might be willing to let him do it every other round, but doesn't matter, he's not even spamming OHKOs.  Definitely think that fight could use a reboot.

Re Blaze Wall hype: in games that have a separate "Burn" status and a "paralysis" status like FF9, sure, separate the effects.  Shadow Hearts doesn't, so both Balloon and Engulf get mapped to paralysis immunity for me, since Engulf is just Paralysis + HP down.  (Alternative is assuming that Engulf just isn't blockable in the DL without absurdly specific equips or blanket status immunity, and if you hold to Dark Holy Elf's views maybe not even blanket status immunity!  But then status's value would inflate even more out of proportion than it does to in-game to me.)

That said I looked it up and it does appear that Blaze Wall is MT.  It's blocked and I see all the SoM cast as being perfectly average, so it doesn't matter in my case.

Glen Veil

  • Just call me...
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 297
  • HO-UOU-IN K-YO-U-MA~
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2012, 01:32:59 PM »
Going to Give Virginia Fiery Rage, Aqua Wisp, and Gale Claw for this floor.

Phear Emma's water zone or something, which can double Virginia's Pressure damage and possibly Sharanda's Spear Frost's if you take element boosting literally and don't factor how basically all LoD animations for water spells involve ice~.  On to the writeup:

Team Glen | Virginia, Red, Sharanda, Emma, (Speed?)  Eiko
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team Glen vs. Hrist (VP1), Evil Gaia, Big Joe, Guido and Gorudo: lol
Team Glen vs. Bronzog, FFT Knight and Kwanda Rossman (S1):  So they could probably kill a person on my team per round, but I have 4 revivers and everyone is going first and doesn't care that they're physical tanks because my team is more magic damage oriented and Virginia and Sharanda can get past Knight's and Bronzong's resists and run-on sentence yay.
Team Glen vs. Blissey, Axem Green, Augst and Lucius:  Pretty sure even with my fail physicals I can off either Blissey or Axem Green before they get a turn, Augst and Lucius are just kind of lol.
Team Glen vs. Mist Dragon, Whelk, Wingraptor (FF5) and Garland (FF1): Don't really know half of these guys but going to assume they are all basically scrubs like Mist Dragon since it's floor one and give my team a pass >.>.
Team Glen vs. Laggy Fantasy Tactics Queklain: 4 Revivers and two status healers > Quek.

dude789

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1284
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2012, 02:13:40 PM »
Re Blaze Wall hype: in games that have a separate "Burn" status and a "paralysis" status like FF9, sure, separate the effects.  Shadow Hearts doesn't, so both Balloon and Engulf get mapped to paralysis immunity for me, since Engulf is just Paralysis + HP down.  (Alternative is assuming that Engulf just isn't blockable in the DL without absurdly specific equips or blanket status immunity, and if you hold to Dark Holy Elf's views maybe not even blanket status immunity!  But then status's value would inflate even more out of proportion than it does to in-game to me.)
Something like 5/7 (Freeze, Petrify, Balloon, Engulfed, Unconsciousness) of the SoM statuses all have similar effects of incapacitate the target for some time with some variations. Letting a single paralysis blocker catch all of the statuses seems like it's going way to far in the other direction especially in SH where the Bodhi Bracelet only specifically blocks paralysis. For the record, I let blanket status immunity block status that isn't in game and also would let fire immunity/absorption block Engulfed.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8151
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2012, 02:24:12 PM »
To equate those to more common status effects...

Unconscious is sleep
Petrify is petrify
Freeze isn't horridly uncommon to start with, though I'd probably equate it to stop.
Engulfed and Balloon do both feel most like paralysis

IIRC engulf isn't even fire damage despite the animation, so I don't see what fire resistance would have to do with it (like Royce's Flamebird). It just happens that the game has two different spells that check paralysis resistance. This isn't excessive. (I agree that if you were mapping 5 statuses from one game to 1 status in another, that would be underrating the status.)

I don't see Shadow Hearts blocking stop or sleep so those avenues for status are open to SoM, just Purim doesn't have 'em.

Big YMMV as always with status stuff but yeah.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Nephrite

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2052
  • President of the Great United States of America
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2012, 08:38:37 PM »
Well, Purim does have Ice/Stone Saber. The hitrates on the Ice Saber are pretty good, Stone... less so.

dude789

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1284
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2012, 08:45:47 PM »

IIRC engulf isn't even fire damage despite the animation, so I don't see what fire resistance would have to do with it (like Royce's Flamebird). It just happens that the game has two different spells that check paralysis resistance. This isn't excessive. (I agree that if you were mapping 5 statuses from one game to 1 status in another, that would be underrating the status.)

Are there any attacks that inflict engulf that don't have a Fire Element attached to them?

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9632
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2012, 08:47:52 PM »
Tenative fail for team magic, pass for Neph/Glen.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4953
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2012, 09:18:22 PM »
Well, I actually am down for Frost Saber hype, since I believe its hit rate is 100% and am not sure I see Stop immunity as getting it (Snowmen also immune damage, so it's a bit different than Stop...   not sure I approve of rewarding the status for being less useful, though.).  But I don't think there's anyone on the team in the super-narrow speed band to even hype it, though.  So sure, let's say that Ag Up Purim is faster than aftergame Good Ricardo.  Aftergame Blanca Entrances Ricardo.  Purim Ice Sabers her team.  Then...  who exactly gets a turn to make Ricardo a Snowman?  Surely not Evil Ricardo, who by definition is slower without the aftergame stats boost.  Artea & Nina4 are too fast, Lucius & Yulie are too slow.  Then Entrance'd Melt Crest melts the team.

dude789

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1284
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2012, 09:24:09 PM »
Well, I actually am down for Frost Saber hype, since I believe its hit rate is 100% and am not sure I see Stop immunity as getting it (Snowmen also immune damage, so it's a bit different than Stop...   not sure I approve of rewarding the status for being less useful, though.).  But I don't think there's anyone on the team in the super-narrow speed band to even hype it, though.  So sure, let's say that Ag Up Purim is faster than aftergame Good Ricardo.  Aftergame Blanca Entrances Ricardo.  Purim Ice Sabers her team.  Then...  who exactly gets a turn to make Ricardo a Snowman?  Surely not Evil Ricardo, who by definition is slower without the aftergame stats boost.  Artea & Nina4 are too fast, Lucius & Yulie are too slow.  Then Entrance'd Melt Crest melts the team.
If that's the case she'd probably use Wall instead to shut down magic damage, and I'd also be a bit wary of Entrance Melt Crest blowing up the entire team. Some of them have absolutely insane Mdef. Purim getting a turn generally makes that fight a headache for Magic's team.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4953
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2012, 11:59:48 PM »
Non-Tidus fights:

So the topic last week claimed 2.5 PCHP off good speed from Entrance'd Melt Crested with Technical Rings.  Even if this is disrespected somehow, "just" 2x PCHP is enough to blow away pretty much anything.  The team's lack of status would be vaguely worrisome since Gilder can unload The Claudia, but Magic just smashes through Justice Shield and it doesn't matter.

The Life fight is funny, but dunno.  Sure, let's say that Ag-Up Purim casts Wall, and Nina4 & Artea do something vaguely useful.  While the team can still Revive, there only option for healing is Yulie's Material now.  And Yuri will For Everyone buff, which includes a speed buff.  I suspect the team can reliably revive-lock Purim, who is the only person who really threatens, and Ricardo's MP regen means this goes on for some time.  The team has SP healing, too.  Of course, there's enemy Ricardo, but suspect he'll have to keep resinging more often thanks to all the beatdown deaths & revivals happening.  Just don't really see a way forward for Team Life, and weirdly enough the Shadow Hearts team has better resources.  (If nothing else, Good Ricardo has more MP!)  Oh and Yuri has Mind Assault still, so that can mess up Ricardo's MP if Wall is ever not on him (say after a death / revival while keeping Purim revive-locked).

Team Magic vs. Tidus (Sonic Steel) (Neo Speed), Jane and Clarissa

Hmm.  If Slow immunity isn't legal for Shadow Hearts, then Clarissa is going to get at least 2 shots of Rob Turn before the first Team Magic turn, which makes it much harder for her to screw up early.  That said, she does basically top out at 5-6 reliable Rob Turns (she has 8 RTs + 2 Sacrifices, RT has a 75% hit rate).  Also, Blanca doesn't seem to have revival?  That makes it easier, if so...  anyway, ~5 PCHP or so to chew through if Blanca doesn't have revival.  (Granting some extra HP respect thanks to aftergame stats).  And Jane's ID is useless.

So....  init Slowga.  Then Hastega.  Then enough Rob Turns to turn off Magic's turn 1.  I'm ignoring Delay Attack hype and assume that Tidus wants to sink all his MP into Quick Hits as well.  Any survivors of Team Magic on their turn 2 can probably nuke Tidus & rebuild, but will there be any?  Also, believe it or not, but *Cheer* might be a good move for Tidus here since he's on a team and has plenty of time to set up buffs.

Hastega / Slowga means quadturns.  Tidus himself has Octaturns thanks to NeoSpeed maxing out quickly.  Magic has his round 1 stolen.  All of the team is fastish so certainly at least keep up with the aftergame stat boost, and they probably snipe the faster characters like Ricardo first anyway.  So... 
~14 Tidus turns post-Hastega / Slowga
~7 Jane turns
~5-7 Clarissa turns not spent on Rob Turn, depending on how good her RT luck is (successful RTs pay for themselves, of course)

Tidus uses 5x Cheer, then starts the 7-8 Quick Hits his MP has left (costing him ~2.5 turns), then regular attacks, then finishes with Blitz Ace.  So 5.5 (regular) + 7.5 (QH) = ~13 attacks, all while under 5x Cheer, and then 1x Blitz Ace under 5x Cheer.  If we 100% ignore Cheer, then Tidus does 13 * .21 = 2.77 PCHP + .75 PCHP = 3.52 PCHP damage.

Jane shoots 6 times and uses her magic on the last turn or whatever.  Most of the shots are under 5x Cheer, maybe the first is only under 2x or something.  So, uh, somewhere in the .75 PCHP - 1.2 PCHP range.

Clarissa uses 2x Sacrifice for 1.21 PCHP damage, then has 3-5 (pathetic) gunshots while under 5x Cheer.  (??? for gunshot damage - maybe .40 - .70 PCHP?)

Yeah, even ignoring Cheer, there might be enough damage here to break Team Magic.  With Cheer I think he just takes too much damage.  Cheer is also good since SH has subtractive defense and Tidus has low damage, so it helps Tidus ensure he's actually still having his fast pinpricks hurt.

So fail to team Magic, for now.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 12:11:54 AM by SnowFire »

ThePiggyman

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1119
  • The Lonely People (Are Getting Lonelier)
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2012, 12:17:30 AM »
Never played a Shadow Hearts game, so I won't vote on Magic's team. But that Tidus fight is still borderline impossible in my books.

Glen/Michael pass.
Quote from: DjinnAndTonic
Quote from: OblivionKnight
if you believe in being a GOOD PERSON

If we believed in that, we wouldn't be forcing world-saving hero to fight eachother to the death for our amusement.

dude789

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1284
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2012, 02:39:51 AM »
Never played a Shadow Hearts game, so I won't vote on Magic's team. But that Tidus fight is still borderline impossible in my books.

Glen/Michael pass.
It's definitely possible. A way to control targetting like the Firefly sealstone goes a long way towards winning the fight, so does slow immunity. Clarissa's the only one who can get past physical immunity and she can only do it twice. Most of the characters with their own initiative move also shut the fight down pretty handily.

ThePiggyman

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1119
  • The Lonely People (Are Getting Lonelier)
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2012, 05:24:22 AM »
Never played a Shadow Hearts game, so I won't vote on Magic's team. But that Tidus fight is still borderline impossible in my books.

Glen/Michael pass.
It's definitely possible. A way to control targetting like the Firefly sealstone goes a long way towards winning the fight, so does slow immunity. Clarissa's the only one who can get past physical immunity and she can only do it twice. Most of the characters with their own initiative move also shut the fight down pretty handily.

Oh, yeah, you're definitely right. Someone like Ephraim, who can counter every attack Tidus dishes out or something, could probably pull it off, too. It's just such a hectic fight. I actually really like it, and I'm excited to see if any team can actually get through it, but it definitely makes it so only a tiny portion of setups can truly manage it (like target-control or slow immunity, the latter of which is actually a lot rarer than I would've initially imagined). And still, whether the team can handle the rest of the floor is another question altogether. If Tidus and co. can't kill the team off, they can pretty reliably just kill off your revivers and make the last two fights hell for your team.

I suppose that, at Floor 9, your team should admittedly be able to handle this sort of thing, and perhaps we will eventually see a team that can beat the current edition of Floor 9. I look forward to the day!
Quote from: DjinnAndTonic
Quote from: OblivionKnight
if you believe in being a GOOD PERSON

If we believed in that, we wouldn't be forcing world-saving hero to fight eachother to the death for our amusement.

Magic Fanatic

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1348
  • As if it wasn't already.
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2012, 05:34:14 AM »
The same thing takes place again next turn with at least 1 character being taken out a turn. After Slowga and Hastega, Tidus has about 92 MP or 11 Delay Hits and that gives him more than enough to take out the team in time especially since it takes fewer each turn. (3 then 3 then 2 then 1) He's also getting a limit somewhere and since Jane doesn't need the MP for Follow Me, she can blow it all on her I'll Show You move once her FP gets up there. It's not that good, but it's MT and just adds more to the damage pile.

Jane's I'll Show You is not MT.  Show me proof that it is, or take another discredit, as I have personal memory and two guides (or more!  I only checked Split Infinity's and Entity13's) on GameFAQs saying it's ST.

If Ricardo or Shania get a turn EVER, it's game over for the enemy team.  If Yuri gets a turn, I get too much of a leg up on the enemy team for them to damage me before I start getting more turns.  Blanca?  Undo almost all the damage they've already done, or just throw up Arc Gale to make their speed advantage less pronounced.  Lucia?  Melt Crest probably kills Jane and mostly neuters Clarissa's good damage, if not outright kills her too.  I want to think that if Rob Turn misses, then the enemy team is just screwed.

I want to say I pass, but if I lose this floor, I think I did good enough.

Pass to Glen and the President.

dude789

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1284
    • View Profile
Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 64
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2012, 04:05:35 PM »
Yeah, the No status floor is pretty easy. Neph and Glen pass, Magic fails is final vote.