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Author Topic: Proving Grounds Week 3 Heavy: :( Cthulhu.  (Read 1097 times)

superaielman

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Proving Grounds Week 3 Heavy: :( Cthulhu.
« on: February 15, 2012, 04:51:54 PM »
In:


Fang: 22-31 42%
Vanille: 22-30 41.5%

Out:

Nina: 16-37 30%
Cthulhu: 11-37 23%


This week I'm changing up the format a bit. Going back to the classic format (6 of normal division, six of higher divison.) The third and fourth slots this week are hatbotted- seasons are rolled and I take whoever the champ is for the division.

New this week:

Jowy- Wielder of the black sword rune, he tore a hole through heavy late in the DL. Can he match Fang and Vanille's tricks?
Chaz- Although his numeric rank is very low, Chaz held on in Godlike for a full 50 seasons.


Fang vs Orlandu (FFT)
Fang vs Kuja (FF9)
Fang vs Citan (XG)
Fang vs Indalecio (SO2)
Fang vs Van (TotA)
Fang vs Naesala (FE9)
Fang vs Zero (MMXCM)
Fang vs Gau (FF6)
Fang vs  Daos (Lufias)
Fang vs  Amon (Lufias)
Fang vs Zidane (FF9)
Fang vs Peppita (SO3)

Vanille vs Orlandu (FFT)
Vanille vs Kuja (FF9)
Vanille vs Citan (XG)
Vanille vs Indalecio (SO2)
Vanille vs Van (TotA)
Vanille vs Naesala (FE9)
Vanille vs Zero (MMXCM)
Vanille vs Gau (FF6)
Vanille vs  Daos (Lufias)
Vanille vs  Amon (Lufias)
Vanille vs Zidane (FF9)
Vanille vs Peppita (SO3)

Jowy vs Orlandu (FFT)
Jowy vs Kuja (FF9)
Jowy vs Citan (XG)
Jowy vs Indalecio (SO2)
Jowy vs Van (TotA)
Jowy vs Naesala (FE9)
Jowy vs Zero (MMXCM)
Jowy vs Gau (FF6)
Jowy vs  Daos (Lufias)
Jowy vs  Amon (Lufias)
Jowy vs Zidane (FF9)
Jowy vs Peppita (SO3)

Chaz vs Orlandu (FFT)
Chaz vs Kuja (FF9)
Chaz vs Citan (XG)
Chaz vs Indalecio (SO2)
Chaz vs Van (TotA)
Chaz vs Naesala (FE9)
Chaz vs Zero (MMXCM)
Chaz vs Gau (FF6)
Chaz vs  Daos (Lufias)
Chaz vs  Amon (Lufias)
Chaz vs Zidane (FF9)
Chaz vs Peppita (SO3)
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

superaielman

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Re: Proving Grounds Week 3 Heavy: :( Cthulhu.
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2012, 01:35:32 AM »
Fang vs Orlandu (FFT)- Aegis Shield+hellcry.
Fang vs Kuja (FF9)- 2HKO.
Fang vs Citan (XG)- Daze+Deprotect=dead Citan.
Fang vs Indalecio (SO2)- Don't think I see deprotect working here, so outslugging is out. Mediguard also doesn't cut it, offhand.
Fang vs Van (TotA)- Fang can't avoid an MA.
Fang vs Naesala (FE9)- Sen to survive the first turn, then status him to hell and back.
Fang vs Zero (MMXCM)- Daze works it's usual magic.
Fang vs Gau (FF6)- Charm vs blitz. Kneejerked Fang, though the fight could go either way.
Fang vs  Daos (Lufias)- Daos really wishes I let him spell focus. The extra turn he needs here gets him killed.
Fang vs  Amon (Lufias)- 2HKO.
Fang vs Zidane (FF9)- Confuse. Drop dead, Zidane.
Fang vs Peppita (SO3)- See Vanille vs Peppita.


Vanille vs Orlandu (FFT)
Vanille vs Kuja (FF9)- Stall till summon.
Vanille vs Citan (XG)- Citan can block pain and doesn't care about fog. Vanille's got no chance to survive a blitz from citan otherwise.
Vanille vs Indalecio (SO2)- Indalecio is sad before ToT. A summon wipes him out.
Vanille vs Van (TotA)- He is going to get a double or stun her way before she gets to the summon stage.
Vanille vs Naesala (FE9)
Vanille vs Zero (MMXCM)- Absolute Zero is status immune.
Vanille vs Gau (FF6)- Status immunity.
Vanille vs  Daos (Lufias)- I could go on a long rant about this fight, but the short version is that Terror Wave kills Vanille.
Vanille vs  Amon (Lufias)- Heal lock.
Vanille vs Zidane (FF9)- Silence. Soul Blade is 100%, proving that FF9 hates us all.   
Vanille vs Peppita (SO3)- Too much status. Peppita has to go first and nail a status.


Jowy vs Orlandu (FFT)- Splat.
Jowy vs Kuja (FF9)- Not much Kuja speed respect.
Jowy vs Citan (XG)- Jowy may be able to pressure with ID, but I doubt it. Citan's too fast.
Jowy vs Indalecio (SO2)- Don't think Jowy can entirely avoid a ToT turn.
Jowy vs Van (TotA)- has too many limit ranges for Jowy to duck.
Jowy vs Naesala (FE9)- Has enough speed to double Jowy offhand and enough durability to survive a spell.
Jowy vs Zero (MMXCM)- Can't kill Jowy with a single turn of Absolute Zero.
Jowy vs Gau (FF6)- NE magic is not Gau's friend.
Jowy vs  Daos (Lufias)- Okay! I don't remotely buy Hungry Friend 2HKOing Daos and a 3-2 feels a little unlikely to me, so. Assuming Staff Jowy's physical is 400~, he's doing 1200 due to Daos's pathetic weakness to blunt physicals. That can be upped to 1500 or so due to Daos defense. (Which normally doesn't matter much at endgame, but Daos Pdef is sad.)  I think that is more or less a survival to Daos to me, which means he loses. Hell if I'm giving Daos a call in his favor ever.
Jowy vs  Amon (Lufias)- Go first, 2HKO, shouldn't get OHKOed.
Jowy vs Zidane (FF9)- Zidane can survive a hungry friend and silence Jowy! and then get killed by a physical.
Jowy vs Peppita (SO3)- Peppita's just outclassed here.

Chaz vs Orlandu (FFT)
Chaz vs Kuja (FF9)- Should be able to outlast.
Chaz vs Citan (XG)- Kneejerk that he survives an explode.
Chaz vs Indalecio (SO2)- Can't blitz.
Chaz vs Van (TotA)- Chaz can't deal with Imperial Slaughter, let alone Ancient Requiem.
Chazvs Naesala (FE9)- EDIT: Naesala doesn't one round average in FE9? Well then.
Chaz vs Zero (MMXCM)-Think he can outrace Chaz's offense..
Chaz vs Gau (FF6)- Picks a defensive rage, outlasts. Mevade should make Explode survivable turn one.
Chaz vs  Daos (Lufias)- Even if he doesn't 2HKO Daos, he's faster and can heal.
Chaz vs  Amon (Lufias)- OHKO, I think.
Chaz vs Zidane (FF9)- Confuse lock. Chaz needs to go first and hit explode to win it, and eh.
Chaz vs Peppita (SO3)- EDIT: Abstain, headache.

Fang: 7-4. High Heavy whose tricks do not cut it in Godlike.
Jowy: 6-6. High Heavy, yeah.
Vanille: 3-8. Middle of the road Heavy. She is like Hope in that she spoils some good fighters, but is limited by her offense and speed.
Chaz: 4-6. I think he's better than Vanille in practice, but he also has no business in Godlike.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 04:52:02 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Random Consonant

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Re: Proving Grounds Week 3 Heavy: :( Cthulhu.
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 06:44:07 PM »
Jowy vs Orlandu (FFT)
Jowy vs Kuja (FF9) - It's Kuja
Jowy vs Citan (XG) - sure
Jowy vs Indalecio (SO2) - Yeah, doubting Jowy's up to this
Jowy vs Naesala (FE9) - Can take a hit and dodge the second, that's enough here.
Jowy vs Gau (FF6)
Jowy vs  Daos (Lufias) - Hungry Friend does about 1.1x PCHP to me, L3 Daos sits at about 1.33x to me.  Welp.  I did have to double check this though!  Maybe if L3 Daos still had that 3x weakness to blunt physicals.
Jowy vs  Amon (Lufias) - splortch.
Jowy vs Zidane (FF9) - blar

Chaz vs Orlandu (FFT) - snrk
Chaz vs Kuja (FF9) - It's Kuja
Chaz vs Citan (XG) - Edit, nope!
Chaz vs Indalecio (SO2) - Chaz sorta doesn't blitz things
Chaz vs Naesala (FE9) - *shrug*
Chaz vs Gau (FF6)
Chaz vs  Daos (Lufias) - Chaz really, really wishes L3 Holy weakness was 3x.
Chaz vs  Amon (Lufias) - splortch
Chaz vs Zidane (FF9) - roight
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 06:46:37 AM by Random Consonant »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Week 3 Heavy: :( Cthulhu.
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 01:10:20 AM »
Fang vs Orlandu (FFT): OHKO.
Fang vs Kuja (FF9): 2HKOs first.
Fang vs Citan (XG): Can pretty much block all of her status except Deprotect/Deshell, and kills with Haste (sets up a 4-2) at worst.
Fang vs Indalecio (SO2): Think he's good enough for this.
Fang vs Van (TotA): Mm yeah.
Fang vs Naesala (FE9): Dazes then does whatever.
Fang vs Zero (MMXCM): Zero hates being initially below average speed. Deprotect/Daze/death.
Fang vs Gau (FF6): Charm is a turn 3 kill + status immunity, and I don't think Fang can kill in the meantime, Gau is too tanky and should survive Deprotect/smash.
Fang vs Daos (Lufias): Deprotect/Slow, then smash twice. Daos pdur should do it, here.
Fang vs Amon (Lufias): Well this depends exactly how good Slow is. Eh. Assuming it cuts speed to 58% or below for now.
Fang vs Zidane (FF9): Don't see confuse working; Fang hits herself once, deconfuses, and cancels the rest of the chain (then uses her reaminaing gauge to win). Doom... maybe? But nah, Daze/Deprotect followed by physical blitz should kill Zidane.
Fang vs Peppita (SO3): Daze.

Vanille vs Orlandu (FFT): OHKO.
Vanille vs Kuja (FF9): Speed.
Vanille vs Citan (XG): See Fang.
Vanille vs Indalecio (SO2): Turtle until summon.
Vanille vs Van (TotA): I guess the argument is whether Van doubles eventually or not? Don't think I see him as above average speed, but could be argued.
Vanille vs Naesala (FE9): Hmm, Naesala res does make Pain turn 2. Guess that's all he really needs.
Vanille vs Zero (MMXCM): No Daze, and Absolute Zero washes off all status effects Vanille does land.
Vanille vs Gau (FF6): Well Vanille hits the right defence so I imagine she can probably two-round after Shell? Unfortunately I don't think Gau fears one turn from her like he does Fang (no Daze) so he goes for the turn 2 kill with Veteran instead (blocking Silence, of course).
Vanille vs  Daos (Lufias): TERROR WAVE
Vanille vs  Amon (Lufias): Heal-lock.
Vanille vs Zidane (FF9): Doom should work. Vanille doesn't have Fang's damage to blitz. There's an argument for resisting doom but... eh.
Vanille vs Peppita (SO3): Pain.

Jowy vs Orlandu (FFT): Hm, Jowy OHKOs and isn't OHKOed back (barely on both counts!). So this comes down to Dark Sword respect and I dunno how I feel about that today. Abstain.
Jowy vs Kuja (FF9): Sure, OHKO.
Jowy vs Citan (XG): Citan 2HKOs, isn't OHKOed.
Jowy vs Indalecio (SO2): Jowy has an argument here, but eh.
Jowy vs Van (TotA): See above.
Jowy vs Naesala (FE9): Yeah, he should dodge one of two shots, and two-rounds.
Jowy vs Zero (MMXCM): 2HKO very easily.
Jowy vs Gau (FF6): As above.
Jowy vs  Daos (Lufias): Has a 3-2.
Jowy vs Amon (Lufias): Man, they're practically tied in speed, crazy. Amon wins by a fraction of a point. Too bad he gets OHKOed to me most likely.
Jowy vs Zidane (FF9): Splat.
Jowy vs Peppita (SO3)

For some reason I feel compelled to do Chaz first, because I think people underrate him pretty badly as always! Kinda like Rika, though he's obviously less good. There's a reason he got to Godlike even though he sucks there.

Chaz vs Orlandu (FFT): Blocks death and nulls holy, that ain't pretty.
Chaz vs Kuja (FF9): Heal-locks easily enough, to me? Maybe this FF9 replay will finally lower my Kuja respect and make this go the other way, we'll see.
Chaz vs Citan (XG): Explode. Seriously, people? Not like Citan 2HKOs Chaz anyway, so he has two shots (although Explode may well be turn 1 anyway)... not seeing how this is even close.
Chaz vs Indalecio (SO2): Chaz isn't a blitzer.
Chaz vs Van (TotA): See above.
Chaz vs Naesala (FE9): Go first, Explode. FE9 doesn't even one-round so he has two shots. FE10 might, but FE10 doesn't have the magic to make Explode not turn 1. Not hyping Naesala evade against pure status unless the attacker's status explicitly checks evade.
Chaz vs Zero (MMXCM): The transformation HP boost lets Zero tank a second Megid, and he can barely kill Chaz on turn 2 if Chaz doesn't heal (or turn 3 if he does). Close though!
Chaz vs Gau (FF6): Chaz is faster. If Explode is turn 1 he wins. If not, Gau uses Veteran to obtain his own ID immunity and kills on turn 2. I'm thinking Gau's MBlock is enough here (unlike FE it actually is a primary status defence stat so I'd see it helping).
Chaz vs  Daos (Lufias): oh look, holy damage against Daos. Chaz survives focussed spells just fine.
Chaz vs  Amon (Lufias): Amon at least has speed on Chaz so he'd have an argument to heal-lock. To bad he gets OHKOed.
Chaz vs Zidane (FF9): Notably faster (116% vs. roughly 109%, depending on what you use for FF9, but I'm sticking to a version which keeps Kuja under 180% thanks). FF9 speed spread is a thing. To make things worse Explode checks the target's Magic which Zidane is game-worst at.
Chaz vs Peppita (SO3): Heal-lock. Chaz has 15 Crosscuts, 9 Rayblades, and 5 Megids... like hell he can't heal-lock long enough.

Jowy 7-4 (has an argument to be as good as 10-2, though, wow)
Chaz 6-6
Fang 6-6
Vanille 3-9
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 12:07:39 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Clear Tranquil

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Re: Proving Grounds Week 3 Heavy: :( Cthulhu.
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 05:40:05 AM »
You're not the only one who feels that way about a character  :P

A) Healing Dance on minor costs only costs 100 MP so DL Peppita has ... 22 shots of this, ok assuming she has to heal every turn fine but she can do basic 150% combo Healing Dance > Faerie Friend/Panic Dance/Kaboom/Frozen Daggers for MP damage/chance of status (unless you don't allow MP damage to hit TP, guess that would only help for Megid anyway ;p) but -

B) Healing Dance > Magical Dance chains are infinite healing (Magical Dance uses HP as fuel, as long as Peppita has the MP/HP to cover the base costs for the dances she can chain them indefinitely - Edit: Well actually I'm not sure of the exact HP usage costs of Magical Dance on major for a L65 Peppita, I just checked two different files, one with a L255 party and another at 175~ and they both had different figures for cost with regards to Magical Dance so maybe it's based on max HP? On a 99'999 HP Peppita it was still 250 HP on minor but cost like 11'000~ HP to use on major but on the lower levelled/70'000~ HP Peppita like 8000~ ;o)m

C) What exactly is Chad doing to prevent Peppita's statuses for that long, unless you don't allow Berserked status? Even so Panic Dance at least is over two dozen "ticks"  of status without chaining and in Panic Dance > Panic Dance chains is an effective chaos lock on those fully susceptible to the status. Granted if she has to heal every turn and depending on how much Chad resists it if he does (Peppita's dances are non typed so I dunno there) ... I can't believe it would never hit in this time here >_>

D) Can't Peppita do something like Healing Dance (L) > Magic Hook (L, pull target in) > Faerie Friend (S) here? Well I don't know if she'd have enough fury, with Berserk yes but again depends on if you allow it I guess.

E) Peppita can maybe counter Chaz's melee stuff? Looks like they can be countered to me and I for one allow Peppita her counters for base stuff in the DL. YMV :) If she can work these in somehow, the additional chaos effects from her counters might eventually trigger as well, normally they are very good for inflicting chaos on susceptible randoms though again depends on the status res here but it might still eventually hit. Factoring in this and even if you don't see counters fully blocking all of Chaz's damage, blocking a good chunk of it might still help.

I definitely think Peppita has a chance of winning this match, I don't think it's an easy win for Chad.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 06:48:42 AM by Clear Tranquil »
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Proving Grounds Week 3 Heavy: :( Cthulhu.
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2012, 05:58:16 AM »
Peppita is slower and Chaz resists her status alongside her being heal-locked. She's pretty much fucked.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Proving Grounds Week 3 Heavy: :( Cthulhu.
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2012, 09:07:02 PM »
Jowy vs Orlandu (FFT) - Jowy OHKOs? Okay bye guyze.
Jowy vs Kuja (FF9) - lol ohko. Reflect hype against Hungry Friend meets :laughing whores:.
Jowy vs Citan (XG) - EDIT: wait holy shit Citan -triples- Jowy after Senki? Jesus christ. O_o
Jowy vs Indalecio (SO2) - EDIT: Wait no 66% ToT range, chipping ain't happening.
Jowy vs Van (TotA) - Jowy just chip-2HKOs. Van is like 1.5x PC HP at best to me - also, see my humongous Mystic Arte respect against even modest evade.
Jowy vs Zero (MMXCM) - Jowy just 2HKOs Zero and that's that.
Jowy vs Gau (FF6) - Blitz.
Jowy vs  Daos (Lufias) - Wait. Jowy should 3-2 Daos. Two HGs and a L3 should handle Daos for me there, that's cleanly over 2.5x PC HP and that's roughly where I peg Daos durability at...
Jowy vs  Amon (Lufias) - OHKO.
Jowy vs Zidane (FF9) - More OHKO.
Jowy vs Peppita (SO3) - Sensing a trend here?

Chaz vs Orlandu (FFT) - Ow.
Chaz vs Kuja (FF9) - I suppose Flare Star misses could give Chaz a fighting chance, but he only 2HKOs and is notably slower. That's a bit much pressure.
Chaz vs Citan (XG) - Eh, I suppose. Citan isn't so much of a fan of ID.
Chaz vs Indalecio (SO2) - Nope.
Chaz vs Van (TotA) - Same thing as above.
Chaz vs Zero (MMXCM) - Sure!
Chaz vs Gau (FF6) - I guess I'm fine with this.
Chaz vs  Daos (Lufias) - Man, Chaz doesn't lose this. Hit weakness, escape heal-lock with doubles because Daos speed fails, collect victoly.
Chaz vs  Amon (Lufias) - Hi weakness-hitting OHKO.
Chaz vs Zidane (FF9) - Faster. Fuck.dat Zidane.
Chaz vs Peppita (SO3) - Yeah, see what I said above. Peppita durability just kinda sucks, her speed ain't so hot either and her options just aren't all that good when she's getting pressured off the bat like that.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 02:47:34 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

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Re: Proving Grounds Week 3 Heavy: :( Cthulhu.
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2012, 12:15:11 AM »
No votes for me yet, but is Hungry Friend elemental?

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Week 3 Heavy: :( Cthulhu.
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2012, 12:16:39 AM »
Nope. (Unfortunately, or it would do like 1800 damage.)

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Clear Tranquil

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Re: Proving Grounds Week 3 Heavy: :( Cthulhu.
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2012, 10:16:07 PM »
Vanille vs Orlandu (FFT)
Vanille vs Kuja (FF9) - Vanille respect, check. Boss Kuja respect, not so much (Kuja 'e's a cool guy though  ;-))
Vanille vs Indalecio (SO2) - Well this is surprising.
Vanille vs Gau - (FF6) Uhh ... allowing secondary roles might swing this. I dunno.
Vanille vs Zidane (FF9)
Vanille vs Peppita (SO3)- No confuse blocker. Panic Dance is none typed (same as all dances) Don't see Pain getting it. If anything it'd be Fog to catch it if it had a type I think. Which would leave Vanille open to Peppita's big physical damage/status if she was going for Turn 1 Fog instead of Pain. Regardless. Vanille's a below average caster. Dance effects on the other hand start/up trigger immediately (fast buffing, hp/mp regen, chaos on susceptible targets) Vanille is chaos locked.

The Dragoon Knight in the Panic Dance video I've linked to before has a SA/status abnormality resist of 70/100 and he gets chaos locked by Panic Dance the whole time. Peppita's short major counter's chaos effect is also highly accurate vs this enemy. Counter O can hit for up to four times base assuming unmodified equipment (attack decisions), each hit has a 50% chance of chaos on low status res enemies. Vs a high status res enemy like the Dragoon Knight it's probably more like 16% x 4 and definitely not a Turn 1 status in this situation. From my experiences although the chaos sometimes triggers on a Turn 2/second counter I'd probably put it at Turn 3 average here. Panic Dance has much more ticks than her counter and a higher base % chaos rate per tick (84% vs 16/100 status resist) to boot.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 11:03:39 PM by Clear Tranquil »
"A Yeul that loved to sing. A Yeul who wished to travel. A Yeul that collected flowers.... Every one of them was unique"