Author Topic: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 67 (Read 3106 times)

Nephrite · « **on:** March 19, 2012, 01:10:16 AM »

"Aw... I hate to see the young ones go. There will be time again for you to try again, though."

Link to the Dungeon Wiki!

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Team Trips | Yuri1, Fogel, Cielo, Yukiko, FF5 Mime (SSL)
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team Trips vs. Hrist (VP1), Evil Gaia, Big Joe, Guido and Gorudo
Team Trips vs. Bronzog, FFT Knight and Kwanda Rossman (S1)
Team Trips vs. Blissey, Axem Green, Augst and Lucius
Team Trips vs. Mist Dragon, Whelk, Wingraptor (FF5) and Garland (FF1)
Team Trips vs. Laggy Fantasy Tactics Queklain

Team Random | Fogel, Rune, Tidus, Marco, Raja (MT)
Floor 3b: Multiply
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team Random vs. Marcus, Seth and Titania
Team Random vs. FF1 White Wizard, FFT Priest, FF5 White Mage, FF3DS White Mage and FFX-2 White Mage
Team Random vs. Alma, Kresnik, Ricardo and Marco (RH)
Team Random vs. Boss Magus and Dalton
*Full Heal
Team Random vs. Lady Harken (ACF) and Zeikfried (ACF)

Team Glen | Virginia, Red, Sharanda, Emma, (Speed?) Eiko
[ Fiery Rage, Moon Spark and Flash Hit ]
[Floor 4: Diff'rent Strokes]
Team Glen vs. Hahn, Tia, Luna, Mareg and Shana
Team Glen vs. Palom, Porom, Edward, Cid and Yang
Team Glen vs. Albel, Adray, Noel and Chisato
Team Glen vs. Yumei, Badrach, Aelia, Lorenta and Grey
Team Glen vs. Worker 8, FFT Cloud, Beowulf, Olan and Reis

Multitarget - All attacks are MT, however the damage/healing/status hit rates are halved and at maximum 50%.

Status Symbol Law - Team is fully status, debuff and ID immune, but has damage done to them increased by 1.1x and damage done by them decreased to .9x.

Speed? - The effective speed of one character is set to 120% (1.2x) average speed and may not be increased in any way. The rest of the team's speed is set to 95% (.95) of its normal value and may be increased.

SnowFire · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2012, 02:25:07 AM »

Team Trips passes - SSL trivializes Queklain, I'm assuming he has SOME healing (Cielo? Yukiko?) which gets past the other fights.

Team Random passes - not thinking too hard about it, but Tidus on the MT floor is pretty badass, that + Marco spamming healing would give even a team of DW1 Heroes lots of turns to kill everything with.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #2 on:** March 19, 2012, 12:39:02 PM »

Both Yuri1 and Yukiko cover healing (Earth L1 is basically gotten in the first dungeon for Yuri), so yeah that's pretty much right.

superaielman · « **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2012, 06:43:18 PM »

Trips passes, abstain on the other two for now.

Yoshiken · « **Reply #4 on:** March 19, 2012, 09:14:22 PM »

Holy crap, a team I know over half of.

Trips passes. I'm fairly sure Yukiko/Yuri could handle this floor between them quite comfortably.

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2012, 06:02:39 AM »

Does the MT sealstone still get that damage penalty on this floor?

Nephrite · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2012, 07:47:25 AM »

I would see it as such, yes.

Random Consonant · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2012, 05:47:28 PM »

Anywho.

Team Random | Fogel (Multitarget), Rune, Tidus, Marco, Raja
Floor 3b: Multiply
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team Random vs. Marcus, Seth and Titania
Team Random vs. FF1 White Wizard, FFT Priest, FF5 White Mage, FF3DS White Mage and FFX-2 White Mage
Team Random vs. Alma, Kresnik, Ricardo and Marco (RH) - No one here is that fast or durable, Fogel/Rune go and mop up dudes, Tidus hastes as needed and Marco and Raja try to keep people alive. Haste isn't doing a whole lot first turn but it should let Rune beat out some people.
Team Random vs. Boss Magus and Dalton - Marco/Raja healing handles this if nothing else.
*Full Heal
Team Random vs. Lady Harken (ACF) and Boomerang (ACF) - Okay, when I picked the floor I was unware that the fight was changed to this, and in retrospect, yes I probably should've asked to have the sealstone moved but welp. Anyways, Rune's slower than Boomerang so the fight hinges on whether or not Rune can survive Harken/Boomerang going. Now then, Rune gets to rock double shields here so his durability is actually looking pretty spiffy, and the bosses' combined damage output isn't *that* high, about 1.08 PCHP according to stat topic and dual shield Rune is a fair bit above that. Assuming Harken doesn't counter. Except she kind of does. Welp. Rune durability ain't that spiffy, and Maximum Risk likely means that Fogel's not winning this by himself. But can she counter if she blocks? If she can't then Rune gets that turn and makes her explode and Fogel can tank out Boomerang from there but if she can, welp.

Nephrite · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2012, 10:23:56 PM »

Quote from: Random Consonant on March 20, 2012, 05:47:28 PM

Anywho.

Team Random | Fogel (Multitarget), Rune, Tidus, Marco, Raja
Floor 3b: Multiply
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team Random vs. Marcus, Seth and Titania
Team Random vs. FF1 White Wizard, FFT Priest, FF5 White Mage, FF3DS White Mage and FFX-2 White Mage
Team Random vs. Alma, Kresnik, Ricardo and Marco (RH) - No one here is that fast or durable, Fogel/Rune go and mop up dudes, Tidus hastes as needed and Marco and Raja try to keep people alive. Haste isn't doing a whole lot first turn but it should let Rune beat out some people.
Team Random vs. Boss Magus and Dalton - Marco/Raja healing handles this if nothing else.
*Full Heal
Team Random vs. Lady Harken (ACF) and Boomerang (ACF) - Okay, when I picked the floor I was unware that the fight was changed to this, and in retrospect, yes I probably should've asked to have the sealstone moved but welp. Anyways, Rune's slower than Boomerang so the fight hinges on whether or not Rune can survive Harken/Boomerang going. Now then, Rune gets to rock double shields here so his durability is actually looking pretty spiffy, and the bosses' combined damage output isn't *that* high, about 1.08 PCHP according to stat topic and dual shield Rune is a fair bit above that. Assuming Harken doesn't counter. Except she kind of does. Welp. Rune durability ain't that spiffy, and Maximum Risk likely means that Fogel's not winning this by himself. But can she counter if she blocks? If she can't then Rune gets that turn and makes her explode and Fogel can tank out Boomerang from there but if she can, welp.

I would let you move it due to the fact that you didn't realize it had changed (even though the floor has been posted before you dumb dumb)

Random Consonant · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2012, 10:31:34 PM »

Hey last time I saw it change it changed to Harken/Zeik, which was honestly tamer.

Moving MT sealstone to Raja at any rate.

Nephrite · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2012, 11:13:55 PM »

It should indeed be Zeikfried.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #11 on:** March 21, 2012, 12:45:27 AM »

Good thing too. Harken+Boomy in the MT floor is utterly nuts for the time.

Nephrite · « **Reply #12 on:** March 21, 2012, 01:17:27 AM »

I forget about MT Shadow Stitch, okay?

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #13 on:** March 21, 2012, 01:40:23 AM »

MT Shadow Stitch is the brutal nail on the coffin. Even beforehand, you still have lol fast (Harken herself being a 3-2 average fucker and Boomy being at least faster than Jack) speed MT OHKO-level offense between the two of them. Basically spells "pack physical walls/evasion whores by the assload or die", which is a bit much to ask of a typical early midgame party.

Random Consonant · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2012, 04:17:32 PM »

Pretty sure I pass now, Rune should well get that turn he needs to make Harken explode since she no likey ice magic and Zeik is manageable by his lonesome (and probably gets exploded by Hewn), and I don't think I have any real problem in getting to that last fight.

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #15 on:** March 28, 2012, 09:57:13 AM »

Trips passes

Team Random passes. Delay Attack is a nasty thing in the battles without counters, and he can generally control those that have counters.

Team Glen | Virginia, Red, Sharanda, Emma, (Speed?) Eiko- Ouch, this team doesn't even have votes yet. Well, having gone through this, I honestly have trouble reading this team (Minus PDur. It's Pdur is not fun)

Red-105% Speed turn 1, Light Revival, passable MT (physical is not very good at the moment), status healing
Virginia- ST Sleep of

hit rate, Gravity, Dispel, Non-Elemental Magic, ST Reflect, ST Revival to 1 HP, Valiant, Protects from Fire, Light, Sleep and Poison, SOS Invincible (This about covers it). Probably about 113% speed.
Eiko- Tad slow now, now MT damage and some of healing and revival. MT revival is now existing
Sharanda- 117%ish speed (109% turn 1 since LoD speed is 50% randomized), gutting that has about 50% ST Magic and 35% MT Magic
Emma- 50% MT Sleep, 40% MT of other statuses. Bad MT damage

Enemies will generally ignore Sharanda and Emma as neither have reliable status healing or revival. They'll probably prioritize Eiko. Virginia isn't bad either since killing her not only requires that they need to revive her, but that her spells are effectively shut off without her wasting a turn (and even not, better ones probably need multiple attacks).
I actually will try to get back to this later, because there isn't really a clear path on any match. This team isn't too well built for blitzing to me. They normally be taking some of damage, status or death that they'll need specific people to cover for.

Team Glen | Virginia, Red, Sharanda, Emma, (Speed?) Eiko
[ Fiery Rage, Moon Spark and Flash Hit ]
[Floor 4: Diff'rent Strokes]
Team Glen vs. Hahn, Tia, Luna, Mareg and Shana- Emma>Tia>Virginia>Shana>Sharanda>Red>Eiko>Slows. Emma and Virginia can Sleep Shana, MT barrage can do the rest. OF course, to get them all cleared out the way , Sharanda needs to item use, but if she does, the next match is bad. So assume she attacks, and then Red and Eiko use MT. Eiko is probably about averagish damage wise. Red is about the same. I don't think this+Sharanda attack is enough to kill Hahn (since he's double shielding, and they hit MDef twice and def once). If Hahn gets a turn, extreme messiness ensues on a level I don't want to think about as two people die. Tia could spend the two turns she'll get on average statusing. Aye, it's a mess if Miranda doesn't use an item that I don't care to think about.
Team Glen vs. Palom, Porom, Edward, Cid and Yang- Edward>Yang>Emma...Edward turn 1 can tie up someone who doesn't resist any of his random statuses (Silence, Sleep or Charm). Eiko is an obvious choice there! Yang can get Virginia. Even with a rush at that point, Porom at least isn't getting taken down (haha Emma damage unless that's different at this point. Unlikely though) as she resists Red's MT. Seems like...Red can get someone status healed, and then Palom and Porom will both be alive and chaos will ensue. I'm open to arguments, but I just am not getting the synergy of this team overall.
Team Glen vs. Albel, Adray, Noel and Chisato
Team Glen vs. Yumei, Badrach, Aelia, Lorenta and Grey
Team Glen vs. Worker 8, FFT Cloud, Beowulf, Olan and Reis

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #16 on:** March 29, 2012, 09:00:13 AM »

Updated my Glen vote to a fail on the second fight. I'm open to arguments, but eh a lot of question marks for me on the team.

Yoshiken · « **Reply #17 on:** March 29, 2012, 04:35:18 PM »

Alright, don't know much of the team, but me, Glen and Piggy have discussed it a fair amount, so let's see..
Technically, I can't vote on this, so I'm not going to, but I'll put the notes here for others to use.

Team Glen | Virginia, Red, Sharanda, Emma, (Speed?) Eiko
[ Fiery Rage, Moon Spark and Flash Hit ]

Notes:
Virginia - What Dhyer said, plus evasion, apparently.
Red - Fire3 is still good here, although starting to move more towards average damage, I guess. I hold summons/Limits into account with averages, so I'd probably say we're looking at something like 0.48x PCHP here. Physical is okay, but outclassed horribly by the magic. Also, that whole status healing and revival thing.
Sharanda - Items items items. Includes some damage and MT status healing.
Emma - Flaming Zone and Magic Zone stand out as the main draws here, but there are other options, I guess.
Eiko - Eiko is probably below average speed, especially with the Speed? nerf, but still has decent MT damage.

Team Glen vs. Hahn, Tia, Luna, Mareg and Shana - Pretty much what Dhyer said~
Team Glen vs. Palom, Porom, Edward, Cid and Yang - Edward > Yang > Team Glen, basically
So Edward and Yang have to status out the main two. Sharanda has Gates of Heaven, which... may or may not be MT status healing? Stat topic says no, GFAQs says yes. Uhh.
Best case scenario for the team is that it is status healing. Confirmation on that would be nice, though.
If it is status healing, Sharanda/Virginia get statused by Yang/Edward (fairly sure Ed's status isn't subject to evasion?). This leaves Emma/Red/Eiko, in that order, to take out at least three of Yang/Edward/Palom/Porom. Porom is 0.99x average MDur and resists Fire, while Yang is 1.19x average MDur. The other two will die to anything either of these die to. Eiko's Fenrir.. At this point, she's probably doing 0.44x PCHP with Fenrir - I'm assuming she's doing less than Steiner/Vivi, slightly more than Garnet (since this is Garnet's dead moment, but she would be doing more otherwise), and more than everyone else. Magic Zone is 1.5x, according to stat topic, which means.. 1.38x PCHP MTed. That's enough to take out Yang/Edward/Palom, at least. Porom survives (only 0.8x to her) and can either revive someone or status someone out, but whichever she chooses to do, Team Glen can status heal with Red/Eiko and knock down either the revived character or Porom with the other. Cid is a non-factor, and can be left alive at the end for healing up if needed. >.> (And yeah, he actually survives that - 1.42x PCHP)
If Porom's status at the end can hit 2/3 (which is unlikely, but still!), then it needs to hit Red/Eiko, or else they poke her down and go into the next fight with some status, if you see it lasting between fights. Emma's the only one who doesn't have the damage to finish her off or status healing.
Team Glen vs. Albel, Adray, Noel and Chisato - Boom? MT nuke seems like it's more than enough here.
Team Glen vs. Yumei, Badrach, Aelia, Lorenta and Grey - Aaaand here.
Team Glen vs. Worker 8, FFT Cloud, Beowulf, Olan and Reis
Okay, this is the next awkward fight. Watch a team of mages go up against Worker 8! MT nuke takes out most of these - apparently Beowulf can survive it with Magic Zone in effect. At which point, Worker 8 can take out Virginia, most likely, while Beowulf probably throws a status at.. well, I'd imagine Red, since I doubt it would be Turn One against anyone else on the team. Sharanda can heal the status on Red (before he gets a turn, in case of confusion) and Eiko can finish off Beowulf.
W8 takes out someone else (I'm assuming he's OHKOing this team of below average PDur, just as a worst-case scenario thing again), probably Eiko. Sharanda and Red revive at this point, and W8's now getting locked out by healing - it's just a question of whether Red/Virginia attacks, with Eiko/Sharanda healing as needed, is enough to finish him before resources are drained. Or, more importantly, if Virginia sees a turn, a Valiant attack landing. Personally, I'd say it is.

So yeah, technically speaking, I can't vote on the team, but I've at least covered the two problematic fights here!

dude789 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 29, 2012, 06:52:59 PM »

Glen and Random fail, others pass.

Magic Fanatic · « **Reply #19 on:** March 29, 2012, 06:55:51 PM »

Team Trips | Yuri1, Fogel, Cielo, Yukiko, FF5 Mime (SSL)
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team Trips vs. Hrist (VP1), Evil Gaia, Big Joe, Guido and Gorudo
Team Trips vs. Bronzog, FFT Knight and Kwanda Rossman (S1)
Team Trips vs. Blissey, Axem Green, Augst and Lucius
Team Trips vs. Mist Dragon, Whelk, Wingraptor (FF5) and Garland (FF1)
Team Trips vs. Laggy Fantasy Tactics Queklain - It's Floor 1.

Team Random | Fogel, Rune, Tidus, Marco, Raja (MT)
Floor 3b: Multiply
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team Random vs. Marcus, Seth and Titania
Team Random vs. FF1 White Wizard, FFT Priest, FF5 White Mage, FF3DS White Mage and FFX-2 White Mage
Team Random vs. Alma, Kresnik, Ricardo and Marco (RH)
Team Random vs. Boss Magus and Dalton
*Full Heal
Team Random vs. Lady Harken (ACF) and Zeikfried (ACF) - I'm pretty sure that he has the ability to handle all the fights on this floor without a real problem.

Team Glen | Virginia, Red, Sharanda, Emma, (Speed?) Eiko
[ Fiery Rage, Moon Spark and Flash Hit ]
[Floor 4: Diff'rent Strokes]
Team Glen vs. Hahn, Tia, Luna, Mareg and Shana
Team Glen vs. Palom, Porom, Edward, Cid and Yang - Edward's only ~~117%~~ 135% Average speed after SDs (those... Apply here, right? FF4 ATB is :psyduck:) while Emma is 120%. Emma uses Sleeping Gas if Edward doesn't go for her, which arguably defangs a lot of the opposition - I didn't see FF4 as having any sleep resistance in the stat topic. After that, Yang has to tie up either Ginny or Eiko.
Team Glen vs. Albel, Adray, Noel and Chisato
Team Glen vs. Yumei, Badrach, Aelia, Lorenta and Grey
Team Glen vs. Worker 8, FFT Cloud, Beowulf, Olan and Reis - Emma is made fast and Slumber Fog is MT, if not fully reliable. I'm not 100% on the effectiveness of everyone else, but that's enough for me to tip it in Glen's favor. Worker 8 gives the team some problems and Emma's MP reserves are... Actually pretty terrible (Download only restores Emma's MP if she hits an enemy with it that actually has a downloadable skill she already has), giving her 8 shots of Slumber Fog with 9 MP besides at endgame... Meaning if she has to help attack or cast much else, she's going to be eating into her reserves a LOT, and that's one of the cheaper of her spells. She MIGHT have 5 uses of it plus some leftover MP midgame?

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #20 on:** March 29, 2012, 08:44:35 PM »

Using SDs put Edward at 1.68, which means that you'd have to go by 10% SD for that (I go by 15%, others go by 20% and 25%).

For Gates of Heaven, remember that Miranda does need to have attacked the previous match (Which is turn is problematic becuase at least with my views, it leaves Hahn alive to ID 2 people). Note that FAQs generally got descriptions from the game, and the games descriptions aren't perfect (See: Being wrong about damage multipliers). I don't believe it is, and it would make a lot of difference.

Also, Slumber Fog is not a relevant spell against FFT, since they will all just block Sleep. Other spells, yes, but not that one (And spell, other spells tend to be less accurate, Beowult at least gets some Evade (as such, Beowulf may be getting a far more turns), W8 immunes.

Magic Fanatic · « **Reply #21 on:** March 29, 2012, 09:27:30 PM »

Quote from: Dhyerwolf on March 29, 2012, 08:44:35 PM

Using SDs put Edward at 1.68, which means that you'd have to go by 10% SD for that (I go by 15%, others go by 20% and 25%).

Yeah, oops. I forgot to carry a 1.

Quote

Also, Slumber Fog is not a relevant spell against FFT, since they will all just block Sleep. Other spells, yes, but not that one (And spell, other spells tend to be less accurate, Beowult at least gets some Evade (as such, Beowulf may be getting a far more turns), W8 immunes.

If nothing else, it's more helpful for the first few fights, since that means they have to spend less on healing and can spend more on offensive actions. It also makes Emma an immediate viable threat that Edward has to pick up, or else they just get exploded.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2012, 12:15:09 AM »

Edward is also from an ATB-based game, which makes using SDs for it sorta questionable to boot...

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #23 on:** March 30, 2012, 12:40:40 AM »

FF4 ATB is :psyduck: enough to make a case for SDs, provided said SDs don't pull it past its maximum theoretical in-game use. When in doubt, though, disrespecting the FF4 speed curve is a good idea.

Gates of Heaven does indeed cure status, I have used it for that precise purpose. (Moon Light does too, but not White Silver Dragon or Meru's Rainbow Breath). The stat topic is lazy about recording such things since in a duel, it will never have this effect, as dragoons are status immune.

Edward's status is evadable. A hearty lol to evadable non-100% status attacks hitting Virginia first turn.

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #24 on:** March 30, 2012, 05:51:47 AM »

That being status healing does help a lot if you see her able to sacrifice her first turn in the first match. Was FF 4 speed okay turn 1?

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Author Topic: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 67 (Read 3106 times)