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Author Topic: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!  (Read 1492 times)

Nephrite

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Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« on: April 18, 2012, 03:14:53 AM »


"Very well then. Let's see if this can continue."


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Team OK | Yuri1, Yuri2, Nash, Adray, Robo
[Floor 2b: Magical Mystery (Earlygame)]
Team OK vs. FFT Wizard, FF1 Black Wizard and Vivi
Team OK vs. Nina1 and Nina2
Team OK vs. Lemina, Mia, Jessica and Luna
Team OK vs. Spar, Frog, Yumi (S3) and Bo
Team OK vs. PC Magus and Kletian


Team Monkey | Rikku, Virginia, KOS-MOS (Body Charge), Nall
[Floor 2a: The Crumbling Ruin (Earlygame)]
Team Monkey vs. Flay and Nikki
Team Monkey vs. Jack(WA:ACF) and Rudy(WAo1)
Team Monkey vs. Opera and Ernest
Team Monkey vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5)
Team Monkey vs. Locke, Karn, Sothe (FE9) and Vyse


Team Trips | Yuri1, Fogel, Cielo, Yukiko, FF5 Mime (SSL)
[Floor 3b: Multiply (Before Midgame)]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team Trips vs. Marcus, Seth, Jagen and Titania
Team Trips vs. FF1 White Wizard, FFT Priest, FF5 White Mage, FF3DS White Mage and FFX-2 White Mage
Team Trips vs. Alma, Kresnik, Ricardo and Marco (RH)
Team Trips vs. Boss Magus and Dalton
*Full Heal
Team Trips vs. Lady Harken (ACF) and Zeikfried (ACF)


Team Random | Fogel, Rune, Tidus (MT), Marco, Raja
[Floor 5b: Ribbon Almark (Post Mid-game)]
*Status (positive and negative) does not have an effect on this floor. Attacks which inflict status may still be used.
Team Random vs. Ryu1 and Ness
Team Random vs. Shadow Mitsuo, Adachi and Shadow Teddie
Team Random vs. Queklain, Velius and Hashmalum
Team Random vs. Dehuai, Albert Simon and Susano-O
Team Random vs. Defender X and Evrae



Multitarget - All attacks are MT, however the damage/healing/status hit rates are halved and at maximum 50%.

Status Symbol Law - Team is fully status, debuff and ID immune, but has damage done to them increased by 1.1x and damage done by them decreased to .9x.

Body Charge - Increases the health, damage and effective speed of a character by 1.3x and decreases damage to them to .7x, but increases the cost of the character by 1.5x (rounded to nearest half point, .5s are 1.0s).
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 01:07:22 AM by Nephrite »

SnowFire

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2012, 11:58:05 PM »
Monkey:
Thanks to Nall I think Monkey can slug his way through the floor, *but* status is still a threat?  Status Rikku in some way that doesn't get fixed post-battle, and Monkey is in big trouble.  I don't know some of the enemies on the floor well enough to know if that's possible.

OK:
No revival yet I think (SH1 Yuri gets it like Floor 5, SH2 Yuri gets it Floor 3 IIRC?).  Flip side Robo's healing isn't utterly terrible yet either, although he is extra-slow (no Ribbon until like Floor 6, although in fairness Ayla / Magus don't exist yet).  Looks moderately tricky, actually.  Nina1 is annoyingly fast and can hold Nash, but think that status wears off at the end of battle?  And Nina2 dies before getting a turn.  Nash is system-spoiled by fight 3- they're all Lunar characters, Lunar characters can explicitly set up starting positions to hose area attacks, so Nash's status is functionally ST.  Luna needs to die thanks to that Sleep, so Yuris work on that, but Jessica will just revive her - can Adray & Robo defeat Lemina & Mia spell-spamming?  Well, probably, since Nash had a ~70% chance or whatever of statusing someone, just this fight is a little scary.  Magus can hit most Yuri weakness, Kletian has both Dark Holy & Holy, hmm...  but they can crazy blitz at this point, and hope for the best?  I guess.  Tentative pass, no revival makes this a scary floor but think OK can get through.

AAA:
Once more doesn't have a reminder of which Yuri that is, so not thinking about it.

Random:
Is Hashmalum's Flare2 MT / large GT / etc. ?  And how bad is the charge time?  Don't know a bunch of those fights, but if it is MT, then Flare2 + Cyclops + punch could be pretty nasty if team Random can't take down a non-Queklain Zodiac before that all resolves.  Velius has support so his HP is pretty decent to me, Hashmalum doesn't so is probably the best choice to rushdown.  On second thought, probably not too bad since Marco Trans-Turning Fogel is pretty good.  The Shadow Hearts fight doesn't look too bad, I give Kato the Regalia by default but sounds like this is explicitly just Susano-o which is not that scary on the status-free floor.  The 5th fight deserves only mockery, stay at long range from Evrae + Haymaker is once every 4 turns = uh Marco or Raja need to revive the other occasionally or something.  So tentative pass.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 01:23:51 AM by SnowFire »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2012, 12:46:10 AM »
Hashmalum's Melt/Quake/Tornado are huge (Meteor-sized range), and have a 4 CT charge time (same as Fire/Ice/Bolt/Cure 1 without Short Charge). Meteor has the same huge radius, but takes 7 CT (fairly lengthy, that's almost a full round for the admittedly speedy Hashmalum).

Even if you give Kato his support (kinda questionable if you ask me, they're explicitly Ouka/Hien/Raiden), Rune can MT OHKO them before any of them act.

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Nephrite

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2012, 01:07:35 AM »
It's Yuri 1 on Trip's team.

SnowFire

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2012, 01:23:17 AM »
Interesting.  Sounds like the FFT fight could be dangerous then if Hash can quickly resolve some MT before dying.  Will await arguments on it.

Vaguely off-topic note on the plot rationale why I'm okay with Kato getting his parts in the DL (although irrelevant here both since they can die to Rune as noted and since it's explicitly assumed not to be allowed).  The Imperial Regalia does have their souls or whatever, but they're also "equipment."  I give Emelious / Melfice their "Sword" part, "Regenerator," etc.  If Grandia 3 had decided that Emelious had sucked Raven's soul into his giant compensating-for-something sword, I'd still give him the sword part as "legal" in the DL.  If you see Ouka / etc. explicitly controlling the actions of the pieces, then their legality becomes more questionable, of course.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 01:25:04 AM by SnowFire »

Nephrite

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2012, 01:27:43 AM »
I didn't think too specifically on whether Susano-O should have his parts but I'd err on the side of him having them (for the little difference it makes) and am happy to make that specifically noted.

Magic Fanatic

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2012, 06:09:19 AM »
For what it's worth, Yuri2's revival is the third Light skill, which means the first unlocked in Tier 2.  Possible F1, easily F2, and F3 if you're stingy.

Yuri1 is the one with specific enemies needing to be killed to get levels, and the Tier 2 fusions don't unlock until England, so F4 is where the T2 fusions unlock, I believe.  He's also the one that, if he picks a fusion, he's stuck with it until the end of the battle.

Random Consonant

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2012, 09:22:24 PM »
gutchecking that I pass, trans-turn and ample revival/healing should get my through alright, and I'm not really feeling Hashy living long enough to get something dangerous off.

ThePiggyman

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2012, 08:00:21 PM »
I don't think I see OK as passing, actually... this is early game, and Robo has to share what little MP he has with his damage techs, and his healing is ST, and like Snow said, he's le slow. The last three fights are a test of attrition, and I'm not sure the team can manage that much damage. I naturally assume Wind Cane Mia, so she can probably get off one of those sick defense-raising spells on Luna, and Sleep is really going to make things ugly. In the mean time, the other two are doing damage and healing whatever damage was done. The next two fights just stack on, and PC Magus is pretty scary (and status-immune). Fail for OK.

Team Monkey, uhh... well. I'm going to abstain this time.

Abstain on Trips. The most important fight is that last one, and WA games give me headaches.

Hmm, even if I try to go devil's advocate, I can't really see Hash/Velius being a concern. Funny enough, Defender X is scarier, but Evrae without status isn't quite as scary, and below-average-speed ST versus a team with three revivers, even with Blast Punch counters, probably isn't stopping them. Pass for Random.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2012, 06:02:27 AM »

Team OK | Yuri1, Yuri2, Nash, Adray, Robo
Robo- 50%? ST (Magic?) Damage, 67% Speed, ST Healing of some indeterminate level (don't remember much of CT, but given how this ends, can it really start great?)
Yuri 1- Good stats, Maybe 50% ST of various elements, MT and ST healing of some unknown level level
Yuri 2- Averagish speed, Maybe 50-60% physical, various ST and AoE magic, healing and buffing. Sole reviver at the moment. Don't think he had Arc's yet, so up to first 4 skills?
Adray- Uh...literally starts horrible at everything? Does not alter anytime soon?
Nash- Speedy, some ST damage, probably has AoE (of unknown area effect) for Stone, and likely adds Confusion and Silence this floor

[Floor 2b: Magical Mystery (Earlygame)]
Team OK vs. FFT Wizard, FF1 Black Wizard and Vivi- My first gut reaction is that this is quite the nasty upgrade to this floor. Not to say it will be a problem here, but let's see. First fight isn't a problem since FFT Wizard's stuff is slow, and the other two can't combine into turn 1 status.
Team OK vs. Nina1 and Nina2- Even with Reflect, Yuri 2's very good physicals lets them kill Nina 2 with Yuri physicals first. Nina 1 can stall, but is horrible at killing.
Team OK vs. Lemina, Mia, Jessica and Luna- Luna will probably spell nastiness for someone some day, but probably not today. Really, since even if Lemina and Mia are the same speed, they can't kill someone going together generally (Well, okay, Robo is likely). Nash statuses out Jessica alone at worst, the Yuri's will take Luna.
Team OK vs. Spar, Frog, Yumi (S3) and Bo- This fight can trip people up, but it won't really be happening here overall.
Team OK vs. PC Magus and Kletian- Magus has 48% MT Damage off 115% Speed and 50% AoE ID, but with targetting issues. Kletian has 75% ST Damage and can revive Magus. However, this damage may all come slowly and his HP is absurdly bad and I don't believe he's really someone with a solid argument at getting durability credit. Any reason for using Kletian here Neph? He is...arguably horrible in every manner that could possibly matter to dungeon.


Team Monkey | Rikku, Virginia, KOS-MOS (Body Charge), Nall
This team does have Revival in Nall...although it's healing abilities are a bit wretched though.
Rikku- Da turn 1 speed, Grenade is now okay MT damage (40%ish).
[Floor 2a: The Crumbling Ruin (Earlygame)]
Team Monkey vs. Flay and Nikki- The good old Flay/Nikki combo. The three can team up to ensure that Flay doesn't get a turn, but Nikki getting two turns is bad. This is just a scenario where Rikku likely is ending up dead, because any combo of these two getting two turns=Rikku is killed. Go Rikku durability. Flay is durable enough that I don't think that Virginia or KOS-MOS can not attack him
Team Monkey vs. Jack(WA:ACF) and Rudy(WAo1)- Jack hates Jane. I guess Rikku will probably die again here too.
Team Monkey vs. Opera and Ernest- Yeah, Rikku dies pretty much every time.
Team Monkey vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5)- Kill Killey since they can't afford taking anything approaching MT damage.
Team Monkey vs. Locke, Karn, Sothe (FE9) and Vyse- This fight didn't particularly need a nerfing. Well, okay. Karn will outspeed KOS-MOS, but probably not the other two with Virginia's speed boost (Although that may not help a lot since it raises the Sds too). Regardless, Virginia+KOSMOS should get Vyse, and the other people can't outrace.

Other two later
...into the nightfall.

Nephrite

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2012, 02:48:22 PM »
Quote from: Dhyerwolf
Any reason for using Kletian here Neph?

I was looking for a magic-user who would fit there. I might end up adding someone else to it to make it less trashy and I'll probably also add Edward back to the other one. DUNGEON DIFFICULTY!!!!!!!

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2012, 04:58:13 AM »
nd the other half
Mime- Does anyone know any of it's stats. No clue on either durability or speed, which is a headache.

Team Trips | Yuri1, Fogel, Cielo, Yukiko, FF5 Mime (SSL)- And no voters here yet...
[Floor 3b: Multiply (Before Midgame)]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team Trips vs. Marcus, Seth, Jagen and Titania- I probably keep asking these, but do you mean for these people to be able to counter? Because they don't do it against MT. Adding more of them isn't going to help until they are durable or evasive.
Team Trips vs. FF1 White Wizard, FFT Priest, FF5 White Mage, FF3DS White Mage and FFX-2 White Mage- Yuri and Fogel outspeed all, mass death
Team Trips vs. Alma, Kresnik, Ricardo and Marco (RH)- Outspeed and death
Team Trips vs. Boss Magus and Dalton- Well, now things don't get so easy. Magus has 26-30% Counters, Dalton has 50% CHP counters. Yukiko can amusingly not attack or else will get slammed with an Ice counter. Magus has 2.7 PC HP, but for the first 1.3 of that, cuts physicals to 15% (Meaning that at least 3 magic attacks+Fogel will need to be unleashed likely). Then there's the elemental walling, which only Yuri (and Mime, but only assuming that Mime outspeeds Cielo) gets around, and only if you assume that Magus can't stop Earth and Holy (if you assume he can, I think this fight is probably over).

Dalton does fall to Yuri+Fogel,although that means that one of them needs to not attack, or the first round is 50% HP damage from Dalton (first counter), at least 1 26-30% attack from Magus (unavoidable on Fogel's attack) and another 26% from Dalton's death counter. This will fell anyone below average (aka Cielo, Yukiko, and ???? to Mime). This is the revival. Good is that Fogel is probably faster (on his first attack, since those are split up time wise. Sigh. Let's assume they just all come at once at listed speed), so Fogel attacks (76% taken), Yuri heals (note that I don't think Holy healing is full especially at this somewhat falling off point. Let's say 50%), Cielo could attack although...uh, I guess even with Earth or Holy, it's not like Magus can kill alone and eventually the physicals will get him.

*Full Heal
Team Trips vs. Lady Harken (ACF) and Zeikfried (ACF)- At least Yuri can get OHKO Harken here with Fogel sitting tight turn 1.

ATeam Random | Fogel, Rune, Tidus (MT), Marco, Raja
[Floor 5b: Ribbon Almark (Post Mid-game)]
*Status (positive and negative) does not have an effect on this floor. Attacks which inflict status may still be used.
Team Random vs. Ryu1 and Ness- Kill Ryu before he attacks, heal up.
Team Random vs. Shadow Mitsuo, Adachi and Shadow Teddie- Shadow Teddie starts with a  fearsome MT 5HKO or ST 4HKO. Mitsuo at least has about 60% MT damage (no way I'm seeing Megidalaon double twice), and can make it Fire so it hits weakness against Raja. Adachi has 33% MT KO since physicals here aren't playing out well for someone with sub Raja Turn 1 speed. Not spelling this out because this match is challenging, but because I always need to figure out why these three on a floor when two of their tricks are just completely gone.
Team Random vs. Queklain, Velius and Hashmalum- 4 CT off 13 speed=between 8 and 9 speed doesn't it? Because uh...Hashmalum's HP is not good, and he's very dead prior to those activating.
Team Random vs. Dehuai, Albert Simon and Susano-O- Dehaui and Albert have around 3HKO MT. Kato is in that area too. His friends should not matter, because they are all OHKO bait and are slower as hell, and an MT spell from Rune takes them out. I guess two of them have initiative, and can maybe combine to kill a person, which is rendered irrelevant when one of the several revivers revives.
Team Random vs. Defender X and Evrae- Evrae is bereft of it's 3 statuses, leaving it really, really bad damage. The final fight of the floor, and one enemy can do 45% ST or effectively 25% MT. Defender X is a mess, but generally at worst a single reviver and healer will own these two for free (Especially when speed is 50% boosted all around).

I thought that this floor was being improved? It's still 5 matches which have at least one enemy almost being completely neutured. Of course people should generally pass floors on average, but the problem is that I'm not sure a team can get to floor 5 and then fail to pass this floor with general ease.
...into the nightfall.

dude789

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2012, 05:24:02 PM »
Abstain on Random. Others pass.

SnowFire

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2012, 08:17:48 PM »
Dhyer, I assume Nephrite is balancing around max FFT boss respect.  If a voter gives support credit to HP AND ignores charge times, then Kletian / Velius / Hash / etc. are all a lot more dangerous.  (Hash doesn't get the HP, sure, but now he resolves his big damage faster.)  I personally just give the support credit, so Kletian / Velius aren't terrible, but they are still functionally slow and the charge time defense penalty really sucks in the Dungeon compared to in-game.

That said, cool as DHE's FFX boss topic is, I agree that Evrae & Defender X should be replaced, they're something of an interp mess and not actually difficult for a final floor 5 battle anyway.

Anyway, confirming everyone passes.  Less boss Magus respect than Dhyer on Team AAA, just don't attack and you're golden pretty much, and sure I'm cool with Hash dying before resolving his big damage for Team Random.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2012, 08:44:33 PM »
Kletain is atrocious unless you only take his HP against a single PC (Aka, pretty much the most full support credit you can give him), and even then may be at sub PC HP base. Either way, that's kind of depending a lot on ignoring a big thing (not to mention that if you ignore it for them, you need to ignore it for Olan and all of a sudden that match will become the second hardest in the dungeon).
...into the nightfall.

Nephrite

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2012, 08:55:39 PM »
I will be doing some strong revamping this weekend.

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 69!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2012, 04:23:31 PM »
Looks like all teams pass. Mostly convinced by Dhyer's extensive notes.