Author Topic: WISE FWOM YOUW GWAVE: The Untitled IAQ Project Re-Imagined! A Real Game?  (Read 5496 times)

AndrewRogue

  • Infinite
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3079
  • Sadness
    • View Profile
So, I'm going to try and keep this short and to the point if I can.

DJ's topic inspired me and got me thinking. The DL could totally do a game. The DL could totally do a pretty good game. The DL should do a game. So, why doesn't the DL do a game?

As such, I am proposing the following concept: let's revive the Untitled IAQ Project, harvest the core ideas (plot, characters, basic concepts, etc), and start not quite back at square one. Let's approach this idea again and, using a handy tool such as RPGMaker VX Ace, make a game.

Let us do something creative that will get our names out there!

So, the major points.

1. This is not just a theoretical exercise. This is a real project. Admittedly, I'm thinking there will be a lengthy "pre-production" phase to work things out, but we will be making a real game. As such, organization, ability to actually do things we suggest, and work will actually matter!

2. I think a Re-Imagining of the original IAQ is a good place to start. Keep in mind that, given the switch to a new system and the fact that we actually want to make a game, very little beyond some of the core concepts and characters are likely to survive in their current iteration. I'll go more into this in a future topic.

3. I would like a project with some scope (a "full length" RPG), but, at the same time, with realistic and achievable goals. As such, I'm proposing we look at this not as doing a single game per se, but rather a series of "episodes," each encompassing a part of the game. This allows us to aim for something big, but still be able to accomplish things without running out of steam or getting frustrated because there is nothing to show for our effort.

4. I am currently pushing towards using RPGMaker VX Ace (http://www.rpgmakerweb.com/product/rpg-maker-vx-ace) based on looking through it. The default tool is surprisingly flexible and effective, while the addition of scripts (ala, http://yanflychannel.wordpress.com/rmvxa/) provide a surprising amount of flexibility with the tool.

5. Currently, I am not looking to use anything but the included art/music assets (annoying as that is) simply because we don't really have people to do those things. If there are folks interested in that sort of stuff, they'd certainly be welcome. The available assets are kind of limited. =(

So, I guess the question is... are people interested and would you want to be a major or minor contributor? I think with the actual stated goal of  making something happen the core group will have to be somewhat small (only so much we can do, especially with a program), but I would like to keep feedback open and all that.

I also believe opening a #RPGDLGame IRC room for real discussion might be a good deal as well.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 11:34:26 PM by AndrewRogue »

AndrewRogue

  • Infinite
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3079
  • Sadness
    • View Profile
[Reserved to talk about what I've been thinking about]

074

  • Suggests the birth of an abomination
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 921
    • View Profile
...Damnit, Andy.  I'm imagining the thread name being said in the same "WISE FWOM YOUW GWAVE" that you hear in Altered Beast.

Old game references aside, I feel I might as well join in.  You convinced me earlier that I really was good when it comes to mechanics and taking systems to their logical extreme--albeit prone to overdoing it.

And...yeah.  Trimming a lot of the game is likely, if simply due to the number of resources available--and their stylistic incompatibility with the VX resources that're out there (though there's a ton more VX resources--it requires you to pretty much abandon the VXA graphics.  ...VX music is compatible, but nobody likes VX music.)

That aside, I'm in.  Just don't expect me to be able to directly add things into the game due to my lack of a full version of VXA.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 11:42:28 PM by Namagomi »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

AndrewRogue

  • Infinite
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3079
  • Sadness
    • View Profile
Fixed to make sure everyone got it.

;)

Dark Holy Elf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Interested of course.

I've done quite a lot of mucking with RPG Maker VX scripting, so that's probably the main area of expertise I could lend to this project. From what I've seen of it VXA uses similar/near-identical scripting so I could probably figure that out quickly enough, though with the caveat that I don't actually own VXA. Otherwise, will probably reprise my role of looking over gameplay balance.

Script-wise, the main thing which may have to be sacrificed is the hex grid we had. It is, of course, theoretically implementable, but doing so involves a bit more ambition scripting-wise than I currently have (and I rather suspect, than anyone else in the group has). There's a chance one is already made out there, granted, which is something we could research if the hex grid is important to us, since it would be much easier to modify an existing script for this than make a new one from scratch.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

074

  • Suggests the birth of an abomination
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 921
    • View Profile
There's...quite a few things that we'd need to cut out, if we were to go this way with the old IAQ project.  The things I can recall from memory include:

--Hex grid and all of its details in general--this would be a pain in the ass, and as someone who doesn't want to bother too much with inventing new scripts when there's perfectly good stuff to use out there, something I feel is better off left alone.
--Deriving from that: Every single field-based ability; Traps, field statuses like Charring and Silence, and the like
--Along the same lines, summons.
--Possibly the Support slot, Emergency Backup mechanic, and every single passive support ability.
--AoEs will summarily have to be specialized into ST, MT, or Random-Target
--Multi-hit attacks will largely have to be scrapped, unless you decide to switch to RMVX instead of Ace and learn the advanced bits of Yanfly Engine Melody--not that it's not doable in VX Ace, but it is handled in an extremely inelegant matter (replaying animation for every single "hit" of the spell)
--Counterattacks separate from evasion will also have to be done away wtih; VX Ace basically handles countering as an "Evade and Counter" matter, and will have to be factored into things.  Whether it's separate from evasion or not, I haven't been able to quantify yet.
--Barring Kread-EX's script (if it works) or using YEM for VX (as opposed to Ace), we'd have to do away with the battle system being CTB.
--In retrospect, some of the more unusual character mechanics might also need to be messed with; skill levels for Katarine, and Erastus' MP costs.

To this extreme, we would definitely want to cull the cast to a degree, episodic or not.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 03:13:05 AM by Namagomi »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

Dark Holy Elf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Quote
Counterattacks separate from evasion will also have to be done away wtih

Nah, these are easy enough to script; I have some things I stole + heavilly modified which I can throw your way.

Does Yanfly's VXA scripts not include CTB? Because if so that's a pretty good argument to just use VX (with the added plus being that I actually own it... as do you?).

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

AndrewRogue

  • Infinite
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3079
  • Sadness
    • View Profile
There's a CTB script for VX Ace to my knowledge (crosslinked from Yanfly).

http://www.rpgmakervxace.net/topic/802-ace-battle-engine-add-on-atbstamina-system/

ATB/Stamina/CTB

If you guys think VX works better, I'm willing to give it a shot. I was going to buy whichever thing we were planning on using.

TranceHime

  • Let's have a freaking kid!
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 935
  • That'll solve ALL our problems!
    • View Profile
I'm always interested in collaborating on a game project, and it'll give me more of a motivation to work on actual non-art aspects (I'm already being worked like a slave on the art department IRL since the development team I'm in at uni have exactly 2 dedicated artists one of them being me). I do know a handful of RGSS2 (not as much RGSS3) but if you need to find some handy scripts from Japan, I could easily do that.
19:35:58 (trancehime) there's a specific spot in the game that's for item duping
19:36:14 (Sanae) o.o
19:39:11 (Sanae) I'd love to dupe a second trancehime.

DjinnAndTonic

  • Genie and Potion with Alcoholic Undertones
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6942
  • "When you wish upon a bar~"
    • View Profile
    • RPGDL Wiki
At the moment, I'm heavily entrenched in FF6 hacking, but I'm always willing to do sprites and portraits, build animations, artsy stuff like that. ...just uh... keep in mind I don't want to have to reinvent the entire graphical design of the game. Sprites are one thing, an entire tileset for backgrounds or every single monster in the game is another story.

This is still -definitely- in line with the idea of "IAQ, but from a Practical viewpoint", since uh... we are actually trying to make a game?

074

  • Suggests the birth of an abomination
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 921
    • View Profile
Summary for people who weren't in chat tonight:

--Discussion about VXA vs. VX.  We're still on the fence about this, but it's not an immediate concern until we get other matters sorted.

--The infamous Isolde Age War was mentioned and referenced.

--PLOT SKELETON

Quote
Noemi makes the decision that she wants the investigate the Throne of the first, but has no support outside of Erastus/Kasia. > Noemi decides to fund it and do it herself. > Erastus is willing to fund, but Noemi has to find a boat and a Guardian to help them navigate the Disquiet. > Noemi thinks she can handle it, but finds that, indeed, it is too much. > Boat is hired (PC captain) after some shenanigans. > Trip to Zadni to recruit Mirek as the Guardian. > Shenanigans to recruit Mirek (likely involving rogue Guardians). > Noemi wishes to recruit lost books from the old manor house. >  Into the Disquiet to get them. > Once successful, a plan is formulated to head to the First's Throne. > To the Throne! > Exploration > Once there the First's journal is discovered, alone with a sealed vault that can't be opened. The journal hints at a key to open it left with his servants. > Research into this leads to conflict with the rogue Guardians. > Discovery of the Second's (!!!) journal. This journal contains amazing secrets and powers which gets the government involved. > Things deteriorate as Noemi's group gets caught between the government and the rogue Guardians. > Scrambling, and after some incidents with the Second's journal, the secret to unsealing the vault is discovered. > Returning to the island amidst the mess, the vault is opened and the Second is freed for a brief time before being taken control of by one of the forces. > It ends up going a bit out of control and must eventually be contained. > Just as things seem to be back under control, Erastus reveals himself as the ultimate mastermind and must be stopped.

--BACKSTORY CHANGES (for those who read the original IAQ's story)
Quote
Actual backstory has changed: The First was not actually the First, as it were. The First had a brother and they first learned the art of magic together..  They came into conflict over what should be done with their gift. The First won out eventually, but the Second saw people misusing it.  Thus the  two went to war. The Second was defeated and sealed with the well of power (name fix pending). However, the continent was shattered and the Second poisoned the Flow.  Making it so that when practitioners touched it, Disquiet is generated. 

--Core characters and concepts so far:

Noemi Seredova: She remains a youngish prodigy. She is very intelligent, hard-working, easy-to-like, etc. She is one of the up-and-coming practitioners in the world.  Her parents were plantation workers and well. Got dead. So she grew up with a reason to want to make things better.  She was lucky in that they were attached the Sebrle Plantation, and they had very nice arragements for the orphans.  She befriended Kasia Jandova there, as well as the Sebrle children (including Mirek).  Her talents were noticed by Erastus Sebrle, and she was enncouraged, tutored, annd eventually sent to school by him.  She has all the makings of a Mary Sue. Unfortunately, her ability to sweep people into her obsessions has a big weakness.  She's rather self-absorbed. She doesn't intend it, but she is hugely manipulative and exploits people.

Kasia Jandova: Noemi's childhood friend, who has spent her entire life being swept up in Noemi's wake. She is nowhere near as talented, but has ground the work out hard to stay with her. She wants Noemi to succeed, but, most of all, she wants her to be happy.  The fact of the matter is that she loves Noemi, and would follow her to hell and back, no matter what it cost.  Unfortunately, that's exactly what's going to happen.

Erastus Sebrle: Formerly known as the greatest practitioner in the world.  He married into the Sebrle family, cementing their seat of power in this modern world where old nobility were being transitioned out by merchants and the like.  A key to ending the Betrayal, Erastus wiped out their main stronghold near the end of the conflict. However, in his absence, the Sebrle family was nearly destroyed: his brother, wife, son, and daughter killed.  This... didn't set well with him and he withdrew from the world for quite a while.  However, Noemi pulled him back out of his funk when she needed his help with her studies.  He thinks of her as something of a daughter, and she thinks of him as her beloved Uncle Erastus.  The sad truth of the matter, however, is that he has discovered the Betrayal was orchestrated by members of the military attempting to seize complete control of the government and oust the merchants and nobles from power.  This kinda cast a dark outlook on his cheerful disposition.  Without anyone to really strike at, his anger has festered into a desire to punish everyone for the bullshit that he went through. He is secretly hoping that Noemi's research will give him power.  His love of Noemi is genuine, however. He has similar affection for his nephew, Mirek, and hopes that he can gain their loyalty.  He is very intelligent, strong, and quite good at actual emotional manipulation.  But he shades it all behind a smile and good-natured, if a little dark at times, ribbing.

Mirek Sebrle: Ex-Guardian and the son of the head of the Sebrle estate, life has not been good for him.  Despite remaining an Imperial Loyalist, he has basically had to fight tooth aand nail to retain his families estates and title (after all, proving you were loyal is tricky) and is obviously not well liked by the people anymore.  He has pretty much given up to a life of idleness in the wake of the Betrayal.  In his youth he was fairly boisterous and energetic. He has quieted some since, and simmers with a lot of unresolved anger.  He feels particular put out as he was pretty much left adrift by the people he knew: Noemi was too consumed with her studies to care about the Betrayal, Kasia was too busy with Noemi, Erastus fell apart because of his own issues and, well. Most other people he had liked were either dead or had tried to kill him.

Isolde Stolz: A former military commander, Isolde was ostensibly let-go following an unpopular bit of work she did.  She now freelances for the Empire, doing jobs that they need someone unaffiliated to do. She is intensely loyal to the Empire and its people.  She tends towards pragmatism, which has misled people to believe that she is cold.

Eirwen Glass: One of the last few (if not last) servants still on the Sebrle estate. Her family has loyally served for generations, with her father having been a butler/bodyguard to the deceased Bohumil Sebrle. She was friendly with all the characters who have been associated with the Sebrle's, but, as young woman/servant, she was kind of ignored.  She has stayed on because of a fondness for Mirek and, well, because the job market fucking sucks.  She is frustrated with his fall into indolance, mainly because she is jealous of him and the other named PCs.  They are powerful. They are well recognized. They... well. Matter.  She feels invisible/meaningless/etc. Something of an inferiority complex that has only been amplified by the very casual attitude the Sebrle family had compared to other nobles/rich folks.

<@LoLRogue> As we're moving away from SRPG, I don't like her with a full support only kit anymore, so she was taught self defense by her father, who would be, in the parlance, something of bad-ass normal.

@LoLRogue> So, Sopko wants to save Katarine which is fairly easy. Character can stay more or less the same.  Function as Isolde's cohort/assistant so that Isolde is not alone in this cold, cruel world.

That aside, overall list of characters will be  (Noemi, Erastus, Kasia, Aurel(Temp?)~[Andy will write more about him later]), (Mirek, Eirwen), (Isolde, Katarine).  With those in mind, there's room for about 4-6 more characters, though party switching will be more fluid in general, according to Andy.

I'll bother with ideas later, but the last and most important parts:

<@LoLRogue> Before I go, though.
<@LoLRogue> Objective 1 is to reach the point where we can describe the game, more or less.
<@LoLRogue> Rough plot, rough characters, rough mechanics.
<@LoLRogue> Nothing concrete, but a hewn image of what we want to achieve.
<@LoLRogue> So, for now, don't get bogged down too much in specifics. Nothing more specific than say those brief character concepts up there.

<@SleepRogue> One last thing before I crash.
<@SleepRogue> Think about what you'd like to work primarily on in general if you can.
<@SleepRogue> We'll need to "department" people to some degree. Not to say they won't have say in other areas, but organization and final calls, etc
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

DjinnAndTonic

  • Genie and Potion with Alcoholic Undertones
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6942
  • "When you wish upon a bar~"
    • View Profile
    • RPGDL Wiki
Request to keep Faulheit, since I like drawing him. Also, can we get some more male characters? I also feel kinda bad that our only main male character is a dedicated Physical Fighter, and our main female is a Researcher Mage. We're waaaaay too stereotypical with the storyline and characters stripped down to this point. I think we should rework a few more things.

DjinnAndTonic

  • Genie and Potion with Alcoholic Undertones
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6942
  • "When you wish upon a bar~"
    • View Profile
    • RPGDL Wiki
Staring at the map, I want to put an emphasis on the fact that this is an island setting, so I'd like to highlight a few different ways to fight that involve the coast and water-travel.

At the very least, there needs to be some Pirates.

And I kind of want to make up some kind of waterfaring animal that most people use for transport. Either some kind of horse-drawn boat that's towed by the animal, or perhaps something large and whale-like or turtle-like that can be outright ridden-on or built on?

Come on, who -doesn't- like a "Pirate-themed RPG"?

AndrewRogue

  • Infinite
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3079
  • Sadness
    • View Profile
To try and lay out some framework (and get some feedback)...

Plot Concept: The basic plot will follow Noemi, Mirek, and Isolde as they are caught up in the affairs of the world. They must come to terms with their pasts, their weaknesses, and their failings so as to rise up and prevent the loss of everything they hold dear.

The main framework of the story starts with Noemi's quest to find a way to control/eliminate the Disquiet. This, takes her to a series of locations around the world as she uncovers the mystery of the origin of magic. Worse, as her search begins to yield shocking results, both the Empire and the remaining Guardians take a keen interest in her and her companions.

Caught in the middle of the two factions, Noemi and her companions unlock the secrets, unwittingly unleashing the return of the one of the original practitioners on the world. Managing to narrowly avert disaster, Noemi and her companions are in for one final surprise as the mastermind behind everything is revealed.

Gameplay Concept: Something of throwback to old school RPGs, but with better writing and modern refinement techniques to make the gameplay engaging. CTB combat seems like the best bet (it is quite a wonderful system), as you can set-up more interesting combats, better gimmicks, more unique PC skillsets, etc. Although I prefer side-facing combat styles, given some general limitations we have, I'm perfectly okay with the old DQ orientation.

Unsure of how I want to handle random battles. Tempted to opt for on-screen enemies, but that might be more of a pain in the ass then it is worth.

Some split-pathing options would be nice, but are likely not possible under the current "episodic" concept.

I tend to favor more linear character builds (I feel they develop better), but would not object to us using equip options, etc to create multible "right" ways to use characters to give players more variety in what they're doing and how they're playing characters. This sort of stuff has to be built in with equipment due to the above episodic issue.

Project Concept: Honestly, what I'm looking to do here is a very modern throwback game. The basic stuff that people loved about old school RPGs with the modern flair of more engaging battles and competent, character oriented writing.

AndrewRogue

  • Infinite
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3079
  • Sadness
    • View Profile
DJ-

1. Honestly, I'm more fond of Dissonance based "magi-tech" to drive home how important the magic is to the world/how ingrained it is, but if you can sell me on a design and a reason (I suppose nearby island hopping travel, thus not needing enhanced boats, is good enough), then I'm on board (ho, ho, nautical humor). And I'm sure we can work pirates in somehow. It'd certainly make sense, at the very least, that whoever ends up as the group's boatsman is certainly not your average sailor.

2. We actually discussed that last night. Intent is to even up the gender numbers a bit, yeah. We're not overly concerned, but 3M - 9F is about as silly as the reverse. And sure, we can add Faulheit to the tentatively in list. The main important deal right now is to make sure characters are either connected to PCs or core plot needs. I think that's part of why the bloat got so silly in the IAQ.

3. Less convinced on the stereotype thing? I'm honestly kind of strapped to think of an actual Noemi analogue. Role wise, you've got a little ground, but even that's a little iffy (unrevised, Mirek was a crit/evade whore which isn't too common for male leads). A little explication on where the stereotype lies in the plot would be good too. Easier to attack perceived issues if we know what the concerns are :p

Unrelated to DJ-

By the by, who that wants to be involved would be capable of grabbing/using Skype? Talking tends to be a bit more efficient than typing for a lot of general discussion.

Similarly, we should also probably start looking towards scheduling out dedicated meeting/work times in the future.

074

  • Suggests the birth of an abomination
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 921
    • View Profile
Last I tried, my headset wouldn't work with Skype.  I could try again now that my computer has a non-malfunctioning HD, but I feel it'll have the same results--able to talk, but not listen.

I'll have to see, though.


Anyway!  Some brainstorming ideas I've been getting in my sleep deprivation and my current inability to self-filter.  It's not quite ZUNmode, but I guess it'll have to do.

-Clearly, it's all but implied by the short blurb for Isolde and Katarine that they're basically working for Imperial Black Ops--Isolde for being effective, but also having done something vastly unpopular (thus, was pushed under the radar), and Katarine for reasons currently unknown.  So I'd like to offer some possible backstory stuff here.
--Isolde is pragmatic as hell.  Perhaps we could use this to display the unpleasant side of this; During some major conflict where she was stationed at a city, she took a huge risk in going on the offensive at a specific point in time (and possibly taking her unit with her)--with a calculated risk that while there would be some casualties--up to and including nobles--she'd be able to take out one of the higher-ranking Guardian commanders, and end the long-term conflict that much faster.  It worked--insofar that said commander was indeed killed.  But the risk in question was also realized, and one or more popular nobles, among other people, were killed.  To prevent a massive scandal from causing further PR problems, and to get Isolde out of the public eye, she was officially discharged, unofficially moved to this Black Ops position.

--Now...Katarine.  We didn't go too much into background with her last time largely because she was a C-Lister, albeit a popular one.  Going with the bits I remember seeing of her personality overview courtesy of Soppy and Andy, I'd say that her perfectionism or whatnot got her -damn- far when it comes to military academy.  High grades on a lot of stuff--but the antithesis to commander material, as anyone who had to deal with her learned the hard way; people really do not like being micromanaged or whatnot.  Dunno, possibly out of a desire to get use out of her effectiveness despite the problems with a command position, she got shifted to Intelligence?  Or  maybe their black-ops deal is the closest thing to there, not sure here.

--Putting them together, it's easy enough to say that those two work together.  If particularly desired, it is possible to possibly have them be old acquaintances from whatever academy or whatnot, but that's only if you want them to know each other beyond that.

--if Faulheit's in...hn.  Not sure if he'd still be on Team Isolde or not.  I guess he'd fit there the most (if only due to the original dynamic), but we'd need to think this out.  He's tentative anyway, and might be punted since Isolde already has someone helping her starting out anyway.

--regarding battles: this is arguably one way in which Ace has better scripts to handle it; there's a script to call a random battle, and one to reset an event's self-switches.  As such, it would be possible to populate one or more given maps with wandering generic enemy sprites that start a random encounter, disappear when defeated, and then respawn upon leaving the room or the dungeon or whatnot.

--Split-pathing the way you imagine it...no, not possible.  The lack of Old Save Import support means that you'd have to find some other means of keeping things left over, if possible.  If not, we'll have to vote on a path, and/or figure out a way to merge the third and fourth acts, at the very least.  At the very least, there'd be a possibility for a compilation at some point.

[Sidenote: Definitely in favor of Imperial path, for obvious reasons relating to boss variety/gimmicks/so on]
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 06:54:30 PM by Namagomi »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

Lady Door

  • Coming up with words is, like...
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1998
  • ... really hard.
    • View Profile
Posting here to mark my interest. Andy is making me.

I have no expertise whatsoever, and passing recollection of the original IAQ. I have no clue what I'll be doing here, but it's SOMETHING, damnit.

Probably project managing. In which case I will probably have some just cause for murder on each and every one of you. Fair warning.
<Demedais> Humans look like cars to me.
<AndrewRogue> That must be confusing in parking lots

AndrewRogue

  • Infinite
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3079
  • Sadness
    • View Profile
As a thing while we attempt to sort out the cast and other things, I think it might be good to keep a running tab of the role a character has in the plot. Not everyone needs a major role, but it is good to keep it in perspective as we track who we have and why! This should also apply to NPCs with major roles as we develop things.

-Noemi: Driving force behind the plot and what happens.

-Mirek: Provides an emotional anchor to the situation to contrast with Noemi’s academic/scientific/raw obsessive drive. Cares about the people involved, rather than just achieving the ends. Insight into the Guardians and plantation life.

-Isolde: Authority. When things start to fall apart, Isolde provides a reason for the PCs to have power to interact with the government. Brings gravity and stability to the group by being no nonsense/pragmatic/fully matured. Insight into the Empire.

-Erastus: Mentor figure. Helps deal with backstory/exposition. Comic relief. Final nemesis and a dark foil to Noemi (obsessiveness and research), Mirek (emotional connections), and Isolde (pragmatism and sacrifice). Reveals the secrets of the Betrayal.

-Kasia: Connection/support for Noemi. Serves to demonstrate how unintentionally callous she can be at times.

~Katarine: Support for Isolde. Illustrates that she is more than just a cold, uncaring commander. Insight into the Empire. Contrast to Noemi who has had to burn herself out to achieve even a fraction of what Noemi has.

~Eirwen: Connection/Support for Mirek. Provides him the impetuous to help Noemi and grow to be able to fit the shoes of a main character. Most normal (least abnormal?) character, provides perspective regarding what being normal amidst giants does.

~Faulheit: (Support for Isolde. Illustrates that she is more than just a cold, uncaring commander. Insight into the Empire.)?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 10:05:22 PM by AndrewRogue »

DjinnAndTonic

  • Genie and Potion with Alcoholic Undertones
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6942
  • "When you wish upon a bar~"
    • View Profile
    • RPGDL Wiki
I was thinking Faulheit could be a Pirate-turned-Black Ops (or vice-versa? He's former Black Ops who became a Pirate and is Isolde's contact)

He is primarily comic relief and could serve as another foil for Noemi - he's innately talented at what he does, but doesn't have any of Noemi's drive or accomplishments - he's good at everything, but has never achieved anything. Possibly consider combining him with Artur?

Otherwise, I like the character notes you have there.

I also really like the idea of having a dedicated Manager. Lady Door, I salute you.



Note on graphics: I am 100% behind recycling as many graphics from online sources as possible. In particular, I like the idea of using FaceMaker for Portraits (like the ones I used before? The non-pixelated ones are pretty nice, Andy remembers them). And I'd be willing to draw the sprites for the PCs (and maybe a select number of NPCs), but I'm calling it at 10 unique sprites (assuming no more than 16 frames per character). Everything else, find something online that fits. Limitations! Creativity! Yay!

AndrewRogue

  • Infinite
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3079
  • Sadness
    • View Profile
Minor things:

Join #RPGDLGame if you are interested in joining the discussion.

Current spreadsheets related to the project can be found at This Google Doc. PM with a gmail account and we can see about getting you added to the list of people who can edit it.

AndrewRogue

  • Infinite
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3079
  • Sadness
    • View Profile
Functional agenda for pre-production (Currently no time table due to wanting DLCon to end before really diving in headfirst).

1. Develop functional plot and gameflow outlines for the entire project (should be able to touch all the major highlights), as well as determine how/if to divide it into episodic releases.

2. Develop functional character skeletons (plot + mechanics).

3. Establish base mechanics for game (stats to be used, combat system, common formulas, encounter types, unusual mechanics we would like to include), as well as make sure said concepts can be feasible to script/workaround/etc.

4. Based on 3, determine the best program for us to use.

5. Determine what we want out of the project in general so we know what to prioritize.

6. Roughly define roles within the project and establish workloads.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 05:13:23 PM by AndrewRogue »

TranceHime

  • Let's have a freaking kid!
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 935
  • That'll solve ALL our problems!
    • View Profile
I am just posting to say that I'm always on Skype whenever I'm at home (despite what my DnD status might tell you) so I can pretty much do that thing where I talk and suggest stuff.
19:35:58 (trancehime) there's a specific spot in the game that's for item duping
19:36:14 (Sanae) o.o
19:39:11 (Sanae) I'd love to dupe a second trancehime.

074

  • Suggests the birth of an abomination
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 921
    • View Profile
Character roles, in more than a single sentence.

Noemi Seredova

Yeah, she's going to be the jack of all trades.  I presume this'd equate to a well-rounded mix of magic and physical as far as abilities go, as well as being generally above-average as far as stats go.  So kind of a Red Mage.  Yeah, it's kind of the trend to have mains who are jack+ in terms of ability setups, but I guess it works.

Suggested Signature Ability:Prodigy--preferably not usable first thing in battle, this would result in Noemi basically taking an ally's spell for the battle.  It'd end up running off of her stats, naturally, but this could lead to some interesting strategies if used right.  ...at the very least, it'd bump up her versatility; with cast size getting smaller, we'd be better off not having the three viewpoint characters being largely better than the rest, so I'd rather focus more on the versatility.


Mirek Sebrle

Not really much I can say on him that Andy hasn't.  Evasive, magic tank, hits hard, not sure if you want this to be through raw MDEF (and thus have him vulnerable to ITD magic alongside ITE physicals), or through some sort of passive magic damage reduction.  I guess having party support abilities would round him out a bit, compared to how he was in the old IAQ.

...admittedly never was too familiar with Guardian stuff.  Pretend I put something really awesome-sounding for a signature ability.


Isolde Stolz

Okay, same general idea as before, really.  Offense-oriented heavy, or as Andy would call, a "Bruiser".  Not the fastest, and only above-average at durability at best, but she can bring the pain.  To keep her from being too one-dimensional, particularly given the shift from SRPG to RPG, I'm suggesting that her other general specialty be in debilitating enemies' defenses.  May have either some offensive magic or composite abilities, but that's neither here nor there.

Suggested Signature Ability: Oversurge--Yeah, it's back.  In a different form; instant-cast ability that costs HP but provides an immediate boost to the next attack Isolde uses.


Kasia Jandova

I admit, I'm never a fan of pure support characters, especially when done poorly.  Honestly, look at any FE or ShF1 healer to see why.  Problem is that unless you plan on WA4-style "heal after every encounter" (which cuts down on the resource management to a degree), you'll need healing of some sort.  Add to that the fact that I'd like to keep items at a serious premium, and there's thusly the need for some sort of healer.  So giving her some healing ability might not be bad.  ...she just needs something other than that in addition to keep her relevant when healing isn't needed, and giving her buffs isn't quite what I'd be thinking of.


Erastus Sebrle

Erastus was one of the real problem characters of the old IAQ.  He had no less than three different skill categories, one of which was usable at any point, another of which became regularly usable, and the third was a summoning set.  Yeah, uh, no.  Honestly, he's known in-universe for being one of the, if not the greatest mage.  Let's focus on him being just that--a damn powerful magic-user--probably the general "nuker" archetype.  Also the idea of him having poor defense but good HP appeals to me for some reason.


Eirwen Glass

She's getting changed, that much is for sure.  In the original, pure support.  Everything about her changed writeup here makes me want to put her as a well-rounded fighter.  I guess the closest statistical comparison I can think of would be along the lines of FE Mercenary/Hero classed characters.  Above-average in everything physical, but not too much so, and poor magic durability, alongside a general lack of magic.


Katarine Lebendslust

Minor change in her setup--while she used to be a support character with a focus on fast attacks and evasion on the side, her general archetype is going more towards ninja or assassin--largely the same general physical setup, up to and including evasion and frailty, just that her spellset is more focused on offensive and status magic than buffing.

Faulheit Aufgeweckt

Faulheit was...unusual in his original version.  Above-average but not great magic, bad speed, and enough resist to tank magic, while at the same time wielding weapons that mean he'd never have to move from his spot to actually hit the enemy.  Unfortunately, most of his advantages aren't applicable given the format change.  As-is, I'm tempted to change him towards more of a glass cannon--strong physical and magic damage, but less than stellar durability, and possibly low resources as well.  Not sure on that, though, and it's just an idea.

That aside, I think there is a need, as evident here, for someone who's properly tanky.  We're kind of lacking in characters who really scream that, to me.  I know Djinn's opposed to it on the basis of spriting, but there may be a mechanical need for someone who's capable of taking physical hits better than Isolde and Eirwen (the way I'm predicting it, anyway).


I'll post my ideas for plottish stuff later today.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

AndrewRogue

  • Infinite
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3079
  • Sadness
    • View Profile
I'm pretty flexible here. Honestly, my main concern is actually generating skillsets that feel like they belong to the PCs.

Noemi Seredova

Yeah, she's going to be the jack of all trades.  I presume this'd equate to a well-rounded mix of magic and physical as far as abilities go, as well as being generally above-average as far as stats go.  So kind of a Red Mage.  Yeah, it's kind of the trend to have mains who are jack+ in terms of ability setups, but I guess it works.

Suggested Signature Ability:Prodigy--preferably not usable first thing in battle, this would result in Noemi basically taking an ally's spell for the battle.  It'd end up running off of her stats, naturally, but this could lead to some interesting strategies if used right.  ...at the very least, it'd bump up her versatility; with cast size getting smaller, we'd be better off not having the three viewpoint characters being largely better than the rest, so I'd rather focus more on the versatility.

If we wanted to avoid following the Jack+ trend, we could angle for something else. Part of it is just making sure we actually capture the sensation that she is a beast whose skills come from being very quick on the learn. Going the Jack+ route is just a solid way to represent it, especially if she can emulate other people.

I can sort of gather from context what it is, but could you further explain what Warm-Up is?

Finally, how would you script out an ability like Prodigy?

Quote
Mirek Sebrle

Not really much I can say on him that Andy hasn't.  Evasive, magic tank, hits hard, not sure if you want this to be through raw MDEF (and thus have him vulnerable to ITD magic alongside ITE physicals), or through some sort of passive magic damage reduction.  I guess having party support abilities would round him out a bit, compared to how he was in the old IAQ.

...admittedly never was too familiar with Guardian stuff.  Pretend I put something really awesome-sounding for a signature ability.

Mirek's signature is probably some very high damage nuke that requires building TP for, as the basic model for Guardians is Iaijutsu. To that end, it might be more worthwhile to build him something like a limit fighter (especially since we are ending up with a number of damagey PCs based on initial estimations), give him a few tricks that turn into severe damage late fight if he's not KO'd?

Quote
Isolde Stolz

Okay, same general idea as before, really.  Offense-oriented heavy, or as Andy would call, a "Bruiser".  Not the fastest, and only above-average at durability at best, but she can bring the pain.  To keep her from being too one-dimensional, particularly given the shift from SRPG to RPG, I'm suggesting that her other general specialty be in debilitating enemies' defenses.  May have either some offensive magic or composite abilities, but that's neither here nor there.

Suggested Signature Ability: Oversurge--Yeah, it's back.  In a different form; instant-cast ability that costs HP but provides an immediate boost to the next attack Isolde uses.

Defense buster bruiser is an interesting idea. She has slightly lower damage starting, but after a turn or three with an enemy, it is really battered. Definitely agree she should be mixed damage (physical + magical abilities).

Quote
Kasia Jandova

I admit, I'm never a fan of pure support characters, especially when done poorly.  Honestly, look at any FE or ShF1 healer to see why.  Problem is that unless you plan on WA4-style "heal after every encounter" (which cuts down on the resource management to a degree), you'll need healing of some sort.  Add to that the fact that I'd like to keep items at a serious premium, and there's thusly the need for some sort of healer.  So giving her some healing ability might not be bad.  ...she just needs something other than that in addition to keep her relevant when healing isn't needed, and giving her buffs isn't quite what I'd be thinking of.

Definitely feel we need a healer (plus, with Disquieted healing, we can do a fun give/take system to serious healing).

Quote
Erastus Sebrle

Erastus was one of the real problem characters of the old IAQ.  He had no less than three different skill categories, one of which was usable at any point, another of which became regularly usable, and the third was a summoning set.  Yeah, uh, no.  Honestly, he's known in-universe for being one of the, if not the greatest mage.  Let's focus on him being just that--a damn powerful magic-user--probably the general "nuker" archetype.  Also the idea of him having poor defense but good HP appeals to me for some reason.

I generally liked the fire motif and think that should probably hang on (it is a pretty powerful force). I'd go with making him reasonably shallow resource (age having weakened him), high power type mage. And yeah, I don't know why, but the high HP thing seems to mentally click. Just a generally resistant guy. Can always add some stuff about why.

Quote
Eirwen Glass

She's getting changed, that much is for sure.  In the original, pure support.  Everything about her changed writeup here makes me want to put her as a well-rounded fighter.  I guess the closest statistical comparison I can think of would be along the lines of FE Mercenary/Hero classed characters.  Above-average in everything physical, but not too much so, and poor magic durability, alongside a general lack of magic.

Sounds more or less decent. I'd keep her a little closer to average (reinforce that she's not as much as an abnormal as the rest of the cast), and give her a few physical based status tricks, as well as a First-Aid regen type heal.

Quote
Katarine Lebendslust

Minor change in her setup--while she used to be a support character with a focus on fast attacks and evasion on the side, her general archetype is going more towards ninja or assassin--largely the same general physical setup, up to and including evasion and frailty, just that her spellset is more focused on offensive and status magic than buffing.

Unsure.

Quote
Faulheit Aufgeweckt

Faulheit was...unusual in his original version.  Above-average but not great magic, bad speed, and enough resist to tank magic, while at the same time wielding weapons that mean he'd never have to move from his spot to actually hit the enemy.  Unfortunately, most of his advantages aren't applicable given the format change.  As-is, I'm tempted to change him towards more of a glass cannon--strong physical and magic damage, but less than stellar durability, and possibly low resources as well.  Not sure on that, though, and it's just an idea.

Unsure.

Quote
That aside, I think there is a need, as evident here, for someone who's properly tanky.  We're kind of lacking in characters who really scream that, to me.  I know Djinn's opposed to it on the basis of spriting, but there may be a mechanical need for someone who's capable of taking physical hits better than Isolde and Eirwen (the way I'm predicting it, anyway).

Unsure at this moment. We could probably do a little bit of stat shuffling and just angle off the concept that we keep the truly fragile PCs (especially considering I want to work around in-battle healing being limited still) to a minimum.

AndrewRogue

  • Infinite
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3079
  • Sadness
    • View Profile
While I mull this concept, could other people consider how other games flowed around their opening? Especially newer RPGs. Trying to get an idea of the right balance of things. Disadvantage of being a writer first, here.

Just a little conceptualizing for opening the game and diving into the first arc.

Plot
Gameplay

Opening Party: Noemi, Kasia; Guest: Erastus

We open on a brief "cinematic" type flashback that quickly outlines the concept of Dissonance, Disquiet, and the Betrayal. This segues into Noemi wondering what was wrong with her dissertation (venturing to the central island to research what caused things), why it was rejected. Kasia offers comfort, but Erastus is a little more blunt about the reason for disinterest.

He inquires if Noemi is sure she wants to pursue this without official support. She says she does. So he poses a challenge to her. This is an area of minor Disquiet. He's hidden an item there and he wants her to retrieve so it so she understands what exactly she is up against, and so she can plan her expedition.


Newbie Dungeon: Disquieted Forest

Inside the forest, Noemi and Kasia begin to suffer ill effects almost immediately from the Disquiet. Despite this being a small and what Noemi thought would work, wears them down immensely and starts having serious negative repercussions.

The item is retrieved, but they are attacked by a hideous abomination! Newbie boss.

Escaping the area, they meet back up with Erastus and Noemi reaffirms her intentions. Kasia is shaken but agrees to help. The item in question is revealed to be a picture of everyone as kids, a precious treasure of Erastus' that he was sure she would recover. He wants to come along as well, not just support her. They determine that, for this expedition, they will supplies (simple enough), a ship (more difficult), and the help of a Guardian (most difficult).

The ship is first, as Erastus is confident that they could find a willing captain from one of the lesser ports, south of the capital.


Party: Noemi, Kasia, Erastus. Walking down to a nearby port town.

This town, south of the capital, is in much worse condition. Food is rationed, people are poorer, etc.

Thugs outside of town!

Exploring the city, the group hears tell of a sailor named Faulheit. It sounds like he might be the best bet, based on the extraordinary tales they hear. The man they meet seems uninterested but, when pressed, he challenges them to prove that they're worthy of hiring him.

Fight with Sailors, Faulheit's First Mate, then Faulheit

Beaten, he is suitable impressed by them and agrees to help them out - so long as all he has to do is sail. The group agrees to take a breather and discuss the Guardian they are going to recruit, Erastus' nephew and an old friend to Noemi and Kasia, Mirek.

Flashback to time at the Sebrle estate in Noemi's youth?

Scene swap to the modern day estate which appears to be much dirtier and more worn. A couple men are writing something on an outer wall. Mirek emerges and looks to pick a fight with them, but is interrupted by Eirwen. There is some heated conversation, but, while Mirek is willing to back down, the men press it.


Party: Mirek, Eirwen
Fight against a couple thugs.

They are soundly smacked around and retreat.

Swap back to Noemi and Co. Crossing the ocean, they are about to arrive in Zadni, but are attacked by pirates!


Party: Noemi, Kasia, Erastus, Faulheit

Defeating the pirates, they arrive in Zadni! Kasia and Erastus have some interest in sightseeing, but Noemi is eager to convince Mirek to join them. They head to the estate where they are shocked to see it in the state is in. They are greeted by Eirwen who was tending the yard and takes them up to see Mirek.

The reunion seems somewhat normal, until, asked for his help, Mirek becomes livid and throws them out.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 11:27:08 PM by AndrewRogue »