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Author Topic: Disquiet (Working Title) - System Design (formerly concepting)  (Read 20828 times)

AndrewRogue

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2012, 11:30:53 PM »
For purposes:

HP
Isolde (490) > Erastus (475) > Batojernej (430) > Kasia (415) > Noemi (400) > Mirek (385) > Kat (370) > Djai (355) > Eirwen (325)

Anything weird?: Erastus is technically odd, but flavoring it as him just being ancient and tough works out. Guy is tight as cord... and wouldn't die if you killed him, because it'd just annoy him.

Mirek's low HP is a little odd sitting below the Kasia/Noemi (neither trained combatants, and Guardian melee fighters would likely need to focus on deadly attacks and survivability), but can be justified fairly easy with his being a bit more fragile after nearly getting ganked in the Betrayal.

Djai is similarly weird and might need to be moved up a little, or plot justified a bit more.

MP
Erastus (320) > Noemi (280) > Kasia (260) > Kat (220) > Isolde (200) > Batojernej (160) > Djai (140) > Mirek (80) > Eirwen (0)

Anything weird?: Not hugely. For plot purposes, should probably give the Guardians bigger numbers (they could have been powerful mages) but counterbalance with expensive MP costs.

STR
Bartojernej (102) > Isolde (96) > Djai (78) > Kasia (72) > Mirek (60) > Noemi (52) > Eirwen (42) > Erastus (30) > Katarine (24)

Anything Weird?: Holy shit, Kasia is a baws. Seriously, she is weirdly strong.

Mirek is a little on the low side (falling below both Djai, an archer, and Kasia). No real issue with Djai being stronger on the whole though, as Mirek's shit can be justified in that he has singular powerhouse blows. Kasia though...

Eirwen also feels a bit weird being that low in theory, but can be balanced by the fact that she is naturally slight.

DEX
Eirwen (74) > Mirek (67) > Katarine (65) > Noemi (62) > Djai (60) > Bartojernej (58) > Kasia (55) > Isolde (53) > Erastus (48)

Anything Weird?: Not really.

MAG
Erastus (94) > Isolde (89) > Katarine (84) > Noemi (74) > Mirek (65) > Kasia (60) > Bartojernej (55) > Djai (50) >>> Eirwen (22)

Anything Weird?: Maybe. Plot wise, might serve to give the Guardians arbitrarily highish Magic scores (Guardians having been those with potential as practitioners), but at the same time you could just consider those scores their raw, untrained capability which makes them fairly impressive next to the highly trained individuals.

SPR
Mirek (78) > Kasia (69) > Isolde (66) > Djai (63) > Erastus (60) > Noemi (57) > Katarine (54) > Bartojernej (51) > Eirwen (39)

Anything Weird?: Not really.

SPD
Eirwen (78) > Noemi (72) > Katarine (69) > Djai (63) > Bartojernej (60) > Kasia (57) > Isolde (51) > Erastus (45) > Mirek (42)

Anything Weird?: Not really.

EVA
Eirwen (35) > Mirek (30) = Djai (30) > Noemi (25) > Kasia (20) = Erastus (20) > Katarine (15) > Isolde (10) > Bartojernej (0)

Anything Weird?: Not really.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 05:47:47 PM by AndrewRogue »

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2012, 05:56:49 AM »
Stat rankings, as of current:

HP:
Isolde (368) > Erastus (356) > Bartol (323) > Kasia (311) > Noemi (300) > Mirek (289) > Kat (278) > Djai (266) > Eirwen (244)

MP:
Erastus (320) > Djai(300) > Noemi (280) > Kasia (260) > Mirek(240) > Kat (220) > Isolde (200) > Bartol (160) > Eirwen (0)

STR:
Bartol (102) > Isolde (96) > Djai (78) > Kasia (72) > Mirek (60) > Noemi (52) > Eirwen (42) > Erastus (30) > Katarine (24)

DEX:
Eirwen (81) > Mirek (71) > Katarine (67) > Djai(65) > Noemi (64) > Kasia (53) > Bartol (52) > Isolde (50) > Erastus (43)

VIT:
Bartojernej (84) > Isolde (72) > Kasia (66) > Noemi (60) > Katarine (57) >  Djai (54) > Eirwen (51) > Mirek (45) > Erastus (42)

MAG:
Erastus (94) > Isolde (89) > Katarine (84) > Noemi (74) > Mirek (65) > Kasia (60) > Bartojernej (55) > Djai (50) >>> Eirwen (22)

SPR:
Mirek (78) > Kasia (69) > Isolde (66) > Djai (63) > Erastus (60) > Noemi (57) > Katarine (54) > Bartol (51) > Eirwen (39)

SPD:
Eirwen (78) > Noemi (72) > Katarine (69) > Djai (66) > Kasia (57) > Bartol(54) >  Isolde (51) > Erastus (45) > Mirek (42)

Effective Speed:
Eirwen (130%) > Noemi (120%) > Katarine (115%) > Djai (110%) > Kasia (95%) > Bartol (90%) > Isolde (85%) > Erastus (75%) > Mirek (70%)

EVA:
Eirwen (35) > Mirek (30) = Djai (30) > Noemi (25) > Kasia (20) = Erastus (20) > Katarine (15) > Isolde (10) > Bartol (0)


Edits:
*Moved Bartol down two ranks in SPD.
*Moved Djai up one. 
*Conversely, added altered DEX values.  Wider spread now exists.  Some people really hate this.  Eirwen and Mirek are happy. 
*Cut cast HP to 3/4 across the board.  Still debating changing to 1/2 instead.
*Finally changed Guardian MP values to what is hopefully something Andy approves of.
*Swapped Noemi/Katarine VIT values as per Andy's request.
*Preparing to calculate damage outputs and recalculate durabilities.  Bartol may need to be shifted around as far as HP goes.
*Rearranged DEX values; -5 to Bartol's, +5 to Djai's
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 05:10:28 PM by Namagomi »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2012, 03:38:58 AM »
PC damage values!  Assuming DEF of 15 (tried 30, it does funny things to attack centered around 60, namely skewing it toward the heavy weapons.) and DEX/VIT of 60.  Taking assumptions that Katarine's weapons just substitute MAG for STR.  Knives have been bumped to 48 ATK, notably.

A + next to swingcount (right number) implies being within 0.25 of gaining another swing.  A - similarly implies being within 0.25 of losing a swing.

Noemi:
*Knives--125/3
*Swords--128/2
Kasia:
*Swords--108/1+
*Bows--127/1
Erastus:
*Swords--45/1
*Staves--45/1
Mirek:
*Guardian Blade--152/3
Eirwen:
*Knives--115/4
*Staves--126/3
*Polearms--162/3-
Bartol:
*Knives-168/2
*Heavy Weapons--221/1
Isolde:
*Polearms--185/1
*Heavy Weapons--208/1
Katarine:
Spread Formation(Full TP)--138/2
Spread Formation(Empty TP)--37/2
Focus Formation(Full TP)--176/1
Focus Formation(Empty TP)--67/1
Djai:
*Bows--206/2-
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 08:11:54 PM by Namagomi »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2012, 04:49:11 AM »
PC Durabilities:

Due to the number of ways this can get taken, I'm going to end up calculating PC durability two ways: one with a single-hit method that would be the normal assumption for games in the DL, and a multi-hit method.  Both are assuming an attack that would 2.5HKO an average person with average...everything, just about.  Because I'm a masochist.  Heaviest equippable armor is assumed.

Physical Durability(Single-Hit)

Bartol (1.597)
Isolde[Raw] (1.563)
Isolde[Practical] (1.274)
Kasia (1.142)
Noemi(1)
Katarine (0.838)
Erastus (0.809)
Djai (0.796)
Mirek (0.721)
Eirwen (0.658)

Okay, so yeah, frail cast against big single hits.  140 power is jacked up to WTF anyway and would hurt like hell in-game, but it gives a decent sample anyway.

Multi-hit method is going to be put on hold for a second, on the basis of the fact that determining a DEX value makes me want to punch kittens.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 05:18:52 AM by Namagomi »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #54 on: July 31, 2012, 06:22:49 AM »
Are you working these numbers in spreadsheets?  If so you could construct the formulas there and fairly easily manipulate the raw data there and maybe even output to graphs if it helps you (or other less mathy people) visualise the scales here?  Might help with making points and just showing stuffs.

Also you know as a DPS that the answer is either a sim or a good spreadsheet.
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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #55 on: July 31, 2012, 06:43:17 AM »
Actually, I've just been doing it manually.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2012, 09:57:47 PM »
Noemi

All right, I think I am 100% happy with her Focus methodology and mostly happy with her skillset.  For plot purposes, I would like to add two more attacks to her arsenal: one designed to deal Disquiet damage, and one designed to function against Disquieted enemies. Both should probably require Focus in general.

So something like:

Contaminate (MP + Focus): Inflicts the Disquieted status on an enemy, dealing intense periodic damage and preventing them from healing for a time.

Disquiet Break (MP + Focus): Disperses Disquiet, stunning a Disquieted target and reducing their stats.

Mirek

Lessee. Might want to merge Essence Flare and Layered Soul (or have one upgrade the other), as he has a fair number of exclusive skills. Soul skills in general (for both him and Djai) should have fairly high costs and last indefinitely until the next skill is used. Allows you to be a little flexible, but prevents weaving them too much.

May want to consider allowing Mirek to maintain his Focus once it builds (or detailing how focus affects his base abilities), as his base damage is low and he is fairly slow. Unless Extremely high is EXTREMELY high (or we've got counter rates in mind or something), he is looking kind of mediocre at the moment. Other possibilities (Increase Weapon Dex Mod, Improved Counter Rate, Silly Damage, Lower Draw Cost, Passives, Maintain Focus, Regen Focus on skill use)

Revenger should likely last more then one turn on increase his chances of being attacked substantially.
 
Isolde

Aura Scythe and Barrier Crush should likely have HP costs added for story flavor. Might want to lose Heavy Cutter (she already hits pretty damn hard from what I've seen, plus between that and Barrier Crush, she and Mirek overlap a surprising amount).

Erastus

Need to reevaluate Focus on his skills if it is going to be concentrated into his Plasma Storm. Also need to determine how his Focus influences him (raw damage, or something sillier? We have a lot of people who scale offensively with Focus, maybe give him some sort of regen with Focus or something. Representing the sheer tenacity of ANGER RAWR)

Kasia

Don't think I had trouble here.

Eirwen

Still think I'd like to see some sort of minor MP restoration and Focus alteration trick on a very limited charge count. Something like...

Encourage (Charge): Restores X MP.
Motivate (Charge): Increase Focus gain by 5 for a short time.

Should probably also run Resuscitate off an item as well.

Katarine

All right, this can of worms. Let's rock.

Katarine starts with a full Focus Gauge, which will lower when using Basic Attacks, Skills, or swapping weapons. This Focus Gauge increases her basic physical damage substantially, the bonus decreasing as the gauge lowers.

Lose the two sets of formation based specials or swap them up to be offensive utility techniques (possibly moving the Spark Cluster capabilities/Magnetize abilities to simulate elemental "weapon attacks"?). Possibly include a damage shield type skill for her if possible.

I think that's where I stand with this one right now.

Bartol

Stand by my earlier comments. Lose Covering Strike, Arrogant Gambit either needs to increase his Odds further or last multiple turns.

Djai

Same Soul deal as Mirek.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2012, 05:13:59 AM by AndrewRogue »

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #57 on: August 03, 2012, 01:36:07 AM »
Erastus

Need to reevaluate Focus on his skills if it is going to be concentrated into his Plasma Storm. Also need to determine how his Focus influences him (raw damage, or something sillier? We have a lot of people who scale offensively with Focus, maybe give him some sort of regen with Focus or something. Representing the sheer tenacity of ANGER RAWR)

How very Darth Sion.
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #58 on: August 09, 2012, 11:48:21 PM »
Noemi: Okay, plotwise, I think that makes me happy. She has a nice set of abilities that represents her lower raw power/highly intellectual/wide reaching style quite effectively. Only real plot flaw I have remaining with her skillset is that Empower should probably have a downside for consistency.

That aside, skill names... eh. Not too happy here. Will think on it, but I feel like it needs to be something more... scholastic/bookish/clinical? Not exceptionally so, but moreso. That, and I like Crescendo: [Skill Name] for the upgraded versions for a number of reasons (most notably it makes it clear that they are improved versions).

Kasia: Looks pretty decent. Her magic is all thematically appropriate to a singular school of study and archery is a fine secondary concept.

Namewise... I don't like Resurrection (I dislike the "Dead" status, and this just feeds into the perception) but technically it works fine. Revive might work better?

Erastus: General shift looks good. May want to shuffle around his Focus costs, however, and move some of them over to his utility skills instead of all being on damage skills (encourage players to need to use it). Focus concept is good, although I feel it may allow his regen to go a little high?

Still would do a "summoner" theme for him name-wise, just 'cause I like it.

Mirek: Looks decent on both fronts, I think? Probably want to change Shock Blade's name (make it more implicative of a hardcore hilt strike or something). Speed increase may be a little too much, but, then again, Mirek does take all day to get moving offensively.

Eirwen: Looks fine.





« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 11:07:05 PM by AndrewRogue »

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2012, 04:35:46 AM »
Character limit on spell names?
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #60 on: August 12, 2012, 06:04:38 AM »
There is one, but it gets pretty high.  Most of the names shouldn't be an issue.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #61 on: August 12, 2012, 07:16:36 AM »
Well just thinking if Andy wants to do Summonish names for Erastus then bumping into a character limit on spell names is a things.  If you don't have room for Amon Mothma, Queen of Flames and Rebellion or something then it could dampen the impact of the theme.
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2012, 02:54:10 PM »
Well just thinking if Andy wants to do Summonish names for Erastus then bumping into a character limit on spell names is a things.  If you don't have room for Amon Mothma, Queen of Flames and Rebellion or something then it could dampen the impact of the theme.

Erastus (Names, filler, etc)

-Scorch
-Incinerate
-Flame Wolves
-Flame Vines
-Ash Elemental
-Flame Snake
-Agni Titan

--Given that this is likely what Andy's going for here, as opposed to stuff with titles and whatnot, I don't think name size will be a big issue.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2012, 03:04:34 PM »
H'okay. If I am recalling right in my current state of fuzzy incomprehension, we discussed character skillsets at the meeting and more or less determined things are cool and my concerns were addressed.

Limitations on Eirwen's item skills will be based off of cost of the item limiting infinite availability.

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #64 on: August 19, 2012, 06:56:30 PM »
Unique Actions: These fill the place of a "Defense" type command on the character's menu.

Noemi: Analyze: Boosts Defense and identifies an enemy's weakness/resistances/etc. 50% CT.
Mirek: Prepare: Boosts Defense and Attack. Increases Focus slightly. 50% CT.
Isolde: Oversurge (relocated from her skills to here).
Erastus: Breather: Defense Boost and decreases Focus. 50% CT.
Eirwen: Evade: Boosts Evade. 50% CT.
Kasia: Rest: Boosts Defense and restores MP, decreases Focus. 100% CT
Katarine: Cage: Grants a Counter Rate for three turns and boosts Defense, decreases Focus a small amount. 50% CT.
Bartol: Taunt (relocated from his skills to here, adds Defense boost).
Djai: Aim (relocated from his skills to here, adds an Acc boost).

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #65 on: August 22, 2012, 09:20:21 AM »
Tentative post for spells.  But for now, largely listing characters with their STR and MAG scores, relevant spells/attacks for C1, and multipliers against standard VIT/SPR.

Assuming standard variance to be 5% unless otherwise noted.

Noemi(54/0.9x Physical, 74/1.23x Magic)

-Gains 15 TP per action.

*Prodigy (15 TP): Copies ally spells.  Ally abilities that can be copied will be marked with a (C) before their name.
*Flare Shot (25 MP) - Power of 42x5.  Assuming level 1 to level 1, Noemi vs. average, she'd be doing 168 a shot.  MDEF-sensitive.
*Flare Shell (25 MP, 40 TP) - 55x5 power.  This results in ~249 damage, with notably improved MDEF penetration.
*Sleeping (20 MP) - Adds sleep to a target, 70% base rate.
*Knockout (20 MP, 40 TP) - Adds sleep to three random targets, repeated "hits" result in repeated rolls, so it does focus in on enemies.
*Empower (17 MP) - Buffs target STR by 25%, lowers target VIT by 20%.
*Energize (17 MP, 30 TP) - Buffs target ATK by 15%.  This is a weird buff insofar that it may arguably increase in effectiveness in a superlinear fashion as the game goes on--and notably increases vastly in effectiveness when against high-DEF opponents.  (Conversely, it is ass against low-DEF opponents)
*Spark Cluster (42 MP) - 160x1 power, 15% critrate, 25% variance.  Averages to 180 damage, but variance easily takes it from 135 to 225 before crits.
*Thunderstrike (42 MP, 35 TP) - 175x1 power, 30% critrate, 25% variance.  Averages ~198 damage, ranges from 148 to 247 before crits.

Kasia(72/1.1x physical, 60/1x magic)

Kasia gains 25 TP per physical attack

*(C) Recovery (22 MP, -30 TP) - 30 power--heals roughly 180 HP, scales up as the game goes on.  Inflicts Healblock for 2 or 3 turns.
*(C) Cleansing (15 MP, -30 TP) - Heals normal physical statuses, such as Paralyze or Bleeding and whatnot.  Lowers VIT by 20%.
*(C) Bolster (17 MP, -30 TP) - Raises target VIT by 25%, lowers target SPR by 20%
*Arterial Shot (40 TP) - standard attack damage, 65% chance of bleed
*Barbed Shot (35 TP) - standard attack damage, lowers target critical rate by 10%, negates target counters.
*Leg Shot (40 TP) - standard attack damage, lowers target EVA by 30

Erastus(30/0.5x physical, 94/1.57x magic)

-Gains 10 TP a turn, plus 10 each time he gets hit by an attack or attack string.

*(C)Flare Shot (25 MP) - 42x5 again.  As testament to his magic score, it does 215 damage.
*(C)Fireball (60 MP) -  38x5 here.  Why so high on the MP, you ask?  MT and it does 183 damage.  To the group.
*(C)Ignition (20 MP) - 45x2.  95 damage here, but this skill isn't so big on damage as it is being a resistance-buster.  He's kind of helpless against fire resist without this spell, so...yeah.
*Searing (35 MP, 20 TP) - 38x5 damage, and reduces a target's STR by 20%.
*Blasting Spread (40 MP, 30 TP) - 38x5 damage, and reduces a target's VIT by 20%.

Eirwen(42/0.7x physical, 22/0.37x magic)

- gains 30 TP a turn.

*First Aid(Item) - Power 20 heal, adds 12% regen for 3 turns.
*Speed Fang(35 TP) - Half swingcount...I'd presume round up, for half recovery time.  Useful move for waiting for a prime turn.
*Bloodletting(25 TP) - Basic attack that inflicts Bleed as well at a 65% rate.
*Vulcan Chain(60 TP) - 1.5x swingcount attack, rounds up.
*Resuscitate(Other Item) - Revives target to 1% HP.

Mirek(60/1x physical, 65/1.08x magic)

-Gains 15 TP a turn

*Essence Flare(24 MP) - Increases self MDEF by 25%, increases self Odds by 25%
*Bunker Soul(40 MP) - Increases party MDEF by 25%, decreases self MDEF by 20%
*Mail Cleaver(40 TP, consumes 20) - Single-swing attack, deals Slashing damage.  Treats enemy DEF as 0.  2.5x STR mult. (266 ITD slashing)
*Banishing Edge(50 TP, consumes 25) - Single-swing attack, deals Anti-Disquiet damage.  Disquiet-type enemies take 5.5x damage from this (380 damage, 76 to non-disquiet)

Bartol(102/1.7x physical, 55/0.91x magic)

*Generates 7 TP every time he's attacked.

*Taunt(No Cost) - Raises Odds stat by 25% flat.  Generates 7 TP.  Takes 0.75x turn
*Fearsome Strike(Req: 35 TP) - Physical attack that reduces target STR by 20% for one turn
*Sonic Boom (32 MP) - Impact-element magic damage.  Delays target's next turn by 40%.  Base power 80x2 (119 damage)
*(C)Kinetic Buffer (22 MP) - Reduces Slash/Pierce/Impact damage by 40% for three turns.  Self-target only.
*Staggering Impact (35 MP) - Physical attack that reduces the damage of the target's next attack by 50%.

Isolde(96/1.6x physical, 89/1.48x magic) 
*(C)Cold Snap (33 MP) - Base power 60x3, delays target's next turn by 15%.  Off of Isolde's notable MAG, we'd be seeing 205 damage.  Assuming Oversurge is a 50% boost on both ends, it'd do 308 damage.
*(C)Shockwave Burst (52 MP) - Base power of 55x3, checks target VIT.  Against average VIT, this spell does 182 damage.  When Oversurged, expect numbers around 274.

Katarine(24/0.4x physical, 84/1.4x magic)
*Spark Cluster (42 MP) - 160 power, 15% critrate, 25% variance.  With Katarine's higher MAG mult, this leads to her averaging 205 damage, ranging from 154-256 at base.

Djai(78/1.3x physical, 50/0.83x magic)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 08:56:00 AM by Namagomi »
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #66 on: September 24, 2012, 01:59:01 AM »
Note to self: Need to reexamine when skills are gained, as well as which skills are gained throughout episode 1. The current list actually feels quite short.

May want to break up Noemi getting base skill/Crescendo skill at separate levels.

AndrewRogue

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #67 on: October 20, 2012, 10:28:37 PM »
Yo! Okay, so with a week of decent testing under our belts, we identified some major issues with the battle system: notably that Focus/M(S)P/etc, as we had them, were just really working the way we wanted them to. At all. Like, to the point of no fun.

So, we talked it out a bit and came to the conclusion that, as built, Focus just wasn't doing what we liked, and we let some weird plot stuff slip in as well.

Allow me to present our new revised concept for Focus (to be renamed?) and Stamina.

Focus will now be a lot closer to Wild Arms FP/Limit Meters/Etc: Builds slowly over the course of the battle (try to keep it character specific) and will be used for very powerful (but only a couple) abilities.

Stamina (SP) will be completely overhauled. It will now be on a much smaller scale (say ~8-13 points to a character, possibly growing a bit over the course of the game) that is consumed on use of attacks (variable costs, like 2-4 ish?). Stamina regenerate by a small bit (1-3) at the start of a character's turn, and can be additionally for some with their "Unique Action". Please note, we are also exploring options to continue to allow secondary cost styles on characters (ala HP, cooldowns, item use, etc).

This system will create an ebb and flow to resources in battle, allowing Stamina to actually function similarly to HP in a way (as the battle progresses, it will get tighter and tighter, giving less room for erroneous choices).

We'll be  experimenting by overlaying this system over our current character builds and rechecking the Test Build. If we like it, then we can take a look at reconceptualizing some of the problem characters/reconceptualizing to better utilize the new system.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 03:38:33 PM by AndrewRogue »

AndrewRogue

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #68 on: October 22, 2012, 10:49:24 PM »
Ho hrm. Some general thoughts. Mostly going off story here, trying to avoid altering things too much so we can test the Stamina system with minimal effort. Some characters really want more severe alterations to their builds then I'm willing to do at this stage.

Also only going to bother with the current Episode 1 skills (we can worry about deeper in later).

Noemi
Stamina: Average Stamina, Average Regen, Low Costs in general. Noemi is a prodigy and should, generally, be able to keep trucking as long as she uses her head.
Skills: Easy enough! Change Crescendo skills to Focus skills, leave all others on Stamina. Voila. Crescendo skills will need a huge boost to make it worthwhile, but hey.

Kasia
Stamina: Above Average, Above Average Regen, Higher Cost Physicals, Lower Cost Magic. We do want to create some dynamic in using her for offense and healing, but, with Heal Block (note: maybe consider Heal Block fucking with Stamina too?), we don't want to make it too hard to do.
Skills: None currently feel worth Focus =(

Erastus
Stamina: Large Stamina Pool, Low Regen, Moderate Costs. Much like his health, this old man can keep going for-freakin'-ever. Hates losing it all, though.
Skills:

Mirek
Stamina: Smaller Pool, Moderate Regen, High Costs on draw skills, Low (attrition?) on others.
Skills:

Eirwen
Stamina:
Skills:

Bartol
Stamina:
Skills:

Grefter

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #69 on: October 23, 2012, 03:22:57 AM »
Made a tab to screw around with concept balance to see how it plays out. 

I would note in its current form as of edits on 23/10/12 (suck it) that the pool sizes are universal without any differentiation made for character and are scaled higher than I expect them to finalise at want to playtest and see how the system feels with excess of resources first just to see how the resource system feels.  This is also done with the assumption that everyone has equal base regen rate (of 1?).  Costing is set at about where I would expect things on that gain per turn, but at about where I expect final stamina scale to sit (of ~= 12ish).

Played with some focus costs and put a couple of comment notes at the end of some stuff.

Edit - Put some more notes on stuff.  Mostly just on Erastus MP pool not to finalised scale.  Lots of babble about Kasia that I will copy paste in here.  Eriwin largely untouched.

Edit 2 - Should transcribe some notes here, but lazy.  Want to hash over with Nama and Andy (and anyone else interested?)

Edit 3 - I should also try to put in words why I like Mirek using standard MP system.  He currently has nothing that justifies the regen, his stuff is costed high.  I like that he has a unique system and it is full of choices that can be made fight to fight because the costing is restrictive.  I think it gives him a unique gameplay niche with that and his primary offense being juggling Prep, basic physicals and Focus skills.  There is some stuff I could think about doing with Prep, but are probably more effort than they are worth, it is neat enough having someone that has a rhythm between Prep and his normal moves.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 10:19:07 PM by Grefter »
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
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Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
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AndrewRogue

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #70 on: October 24, 2012, 04:24:34 PM »
I'd try to cost a little closer to expected values (no super deep thought) just on the basis that the resource system will be a bit tricky to judge without running out of Stamina and a few other factors. Keep in mind, I agree we should change as little as possible to test the new system without investing a ton of work, but I do think we need to make some adjustments for it.

Noemi notes: Cooldown would work decently for Focus abilities on that basis (and it works decently well with the flavor of her Crescendos). The chain idea is interesting, but not sure if there is a good way to implement certain versions of it? Certainly would be a top end ability, though. Might be mixing too many mechanics with that though, especially with Prodigy laying around. Maybe not.

Might be reasonably easy to give her a way to use multiple Crescendos in a row, though. I do find the idea kind of interesting.

Even though you state nothing, I'm debating if Stamina should not be used for FP attacks if we can get multiresources going.

Kasia Notes: I'd almost be inclined to say that Kasia might be borderline too complex to try and maintain in her current form and might benefit from some reorientation more than most. Not sure if I like how she is currently constructed under this system. I need to talk her out more.

As Nama states, her Focus reduction from healing works because it isn't a cost, it just knocks her Focus down that much regardless of how much she has.

Mirek Notes: I think I get where you're going with him? I would actually consider something different and have his Soul skills negate (or later drain) Stamina regen. Creates a dynamic between always being buffed/buffing the party and his own abilities. I do like the idea of Prep -> Focus skill rhythm though. Combat wise it makes sense and all that, too. To be fair, he eats into Djai's unique territory if you do that, but developing similarities in the Guardian style wouldn't be bad. That and Djai might end up on the block eventually.

Eirwen Notes: Would be up there with Kasia for considering a reorientation. I feel like a moron for oversighting that I had been moving away from MP for terminology and flavor, which makes her state now kind of weird. Girl can go all night!
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 11:22:14 PM by AndrewRogue »

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #71 on: October 25, 2012, 02:22:34 PM »
Okay.  Due to a combination of sleep deprivation and actually taking dudes up on the order of "take a damn break", I'm only posting now.  Go figure.

Minor aesthetic detail that is important: Skills in the skill menu are sorted by their position on the database.  Therefore: yay, more fiddly crap (somewhat) to get skill lists to display how desired.

On Noemi: Proposing 10 Focus, 2 Regen.  She's pretty much the baseline here, and I figure 10/2 would definitely be "average" enough to work with.
-By that standard, I'd posit Flare Shot as a cost 3 spell.  I'm never too big of a fan of indefinite casting of offensive spells or whatnot, so yeah.
-Sleeping...it's fairly standard status.  Cost 3.
-Empower I'd be tempted to put as a cost 2.  This technically makes it free for her under most conditions, though it blocks further SP regeneration as long as she's casting it.
-Spark Cluster...okay, going to be an asshole and suggest it'd end up being cost 4 minimum.  Spoiler: Lightning magic costs are going to suck.  Kind of like earth magic costs will.
-Crescendoes...okay.  I think Noemi might be the exception to the rule on number of FP abilities by virtue of this alone.  ALTERNATIVELY: Crescendoes have a "group cooldown" via a status that blocks them being self-applied with the casting of any Crescendo, or something.  So she gets big spells that she can use, but you won't be able to use them for a while.  I'll have to look into how this could be done in YEM, if possible.
Alternatively, a status enables them for one turn, FP skill self-applies it.  Instant cast.  Woo.  She gets both it and Prodigy from the start, or something.


On Kasia: Okay, yeah.  She needs a notable skillset refactor.  To what degree, I'm not sure yet.  I'll look over her at some point, though holding off now until after we can implement and test to see if this stamina thing works.


On Erastus: Ah, Erastus.  You are such a pain to balance around the fact that you have MT, and will be notably the only one of such until C2-C3.  14 Stamina, 1 Regen.  Putting it right here, Erastus is going to have problems with running out of gas if he's too happy with the big spells, but he's got a huge pool to draw from.  This is going to be intentional.  FP skills revolve around making his casting better or being nukes or something.
-Flare Shot still costs 3.
-Fireball costs 8 minimum.  My philosophy on MT spells is that they should be less than efficient to cast on less than three enemies total.  While he can eventually get to the point where he can cast two, it runs him dry.
-Ignition: On second thought, the way I am able to get this skill to work requires either a lot of brute-forcing statuses in the database, or would warrant a major boost in the skill's cost.  Either or.  This could raise the cost notably, though I'm not quite sure yet on which to go for.


On Mirek: Mirek's going to be in a weird position for his stuff.  I'd say he gets 8 Stamina, 1 Regen, though the exact nature of his stuff means we don't have to worry so much about costs.
-Soul abilities in general can work one of a few ways.  Expensive, moderate with them nulling regen--hell, cheap with them nulling regen.  Nulling regen sucks.  This leads me to believe he needs a free self-neutralize, though, just to let him start up again.  Might have a FP ability that gives him some extra stamina in the process, though I'm just spitballing there and it's...meh.
-By that extension, skills would probably have to be reworked to a degree, conceptually speaking.  Either we have it such that he has to balance that with basic physicals, or set up so his skills don't cost much and can use them with notable regularity when neutral.

On Eirwen:  yeah, we totally overlooked Eirwen here for this.  About as much my fault as anyone else's.  asdf.  Off of the top of my head, 8 Stamina, 3 Regen.  She pretty much works best in bursts.  Burns through a ton of stamina in one go, but then gets it back.  Another candidate alongside Kasia for refactoring.  Oh look, the two who need refactoring are the ones who are the healers.  How am I not quite surprised.
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #72 on: November 22, 2012, 11:26:21 PM »
Noemi: Noemi is a very competent practitioner, capable of learning very quickly and having mastered a wide number of Dissonant disciplines. She lacks raw power of other practitioners, but makes up for it with speed, precision, and breadth of knowledge. So how to represent that and allow it to grow?

All right, we've talked Noemi quite a bit in the past, but it never hurts to recheck things. Especially since Prodigy may be on the block due to implementation difficulties.

Utility is the name of the game, and that means a couple of things.

Stamina-wise, she'll need to be pretty steady. After all, utility and variety isn't worth anything if you can't use it. The line needs to be walked carefully: she needs to not have infinite Stamina, but she needs enough to take advantage of her abilities. Of course, even her downtime shouldn't be too bad, with a decent physical available.

The main thing we'll want to look to doing with her skillset is making sure she has something effective to do in every battle. We might want to consider straight out not letting her be elementally walled (some sort of non-type damage?)

Analyze still works as a pretty awesome special skill conceptually and fits her character very nicely.

Focus-wise, I feel the whole Crescendo thing we have set-up is pretty. More expensive skills that take advantage of her setting them up (her Focus gain basically representing preparation) to be more powerful.

Later in the game she should get some interaction with Disquiet (offensively?) as a result of her studies, but that is definitely beyond EP1.

This all means her stat spread is pretty good. Speed is a blessing with utility and options, and everything else hovers a little above average/around average enough to work pretty well as a true jack of all trades.

She doesn't need to do uber damage in every fight, but she should more or less feel like a very solid contributor in every fight she's in.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Kasia: Although not as skilled as those around her, Kasia is trained in the art of medical Dissonance and quite capable in her own right. She has a keen eye, though she tends to get flustered when presented with a lot to do in a short time. Her knowledge of medical Dissonance is solid, although she is still just a bare graduate at this point. It does help her in a pinch when she needs to defend herself though, as she knows just where to hit. She just needs to concentrate on it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Erastus: Erastus is an old and formerly quite powerful practitioner. His skills have deteriorated as a result of a lack of practice and his experiences during the Betrayal, but he still possesses incredible abilities. He has always possessed an affinity for fire and has always used it as the focus of his Dissonant practices. He is a survivor, strong, resolute, and with a temper that simmers slowly and sustains him.

Erastus is all about fire. It matches his somewhat erratic and troubled nature quite well. He is an incredibly (though aged, damaged, and a little mad) practitioner, though, allowing him to use what many consider a simple element with incredible force and precision respectively.

I like the current conception of his Stamina: a large pool that regenerates very slowly. He has deep reserves and incredible control of his abilities, allowing him to work for quite a while, but his age is showing a bit and he can't keep it up as effectively as his comrades.

Skillset-wise, he is also in the right territory, but could use a little tweaking. I'm fine with him mostly being walled by fire defense (although, being who he is, a trump card isn't bad). Having thought about it, expanding his AoE potential (or just making sure it is fairly solidly part of his niche) makes sense. Fire Damage + Stat Downs are pretty good for variety, and we might also want to consider giving him some sort of Fire Defense buff (again, we want to make it clear he is the master of this shit).

His variety should probably be attached to Focus (as it is now). It is tricky to use fire in incredibly special ways.

His unique skill could probably use a little refining? But I like it conceptually. His passive should probably also stay in place, as it is a nicely flavorful thing, I thing.

His stat spread continues to feel right as well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mirek:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Eirwen:
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 10:21:05 PM by AndrewRogue »

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #73 on: November 26, 2012, 05:13:52 AM »
Just placing these notes here so they can be played around with.

Skill Acquisition:

Noemi starts with Flare Shot (and Crescendo) and Sleep. She learns Crescendo Sleep for the Bandit Hideout. Unsure on where to place Spark Cluster, Empower, and the respective Crescendos.

Erastus we are debating starting with all of his skills.

Mirek starts with Mail Cleaver. He gains Bunker Soul before the plantation, Banishing Edge before Legion, and Essence Flare before the Throne of the First (no fights currently).

Eirwen and Kasia we actually failed to discuss in this regard, so we should think about it.

I think Batrol's skill arrangement is fine?

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Re: Disquiet (Working Title) - Character Concepting
« Reply #74 on: November 26, 2012, 06:07:44 AM »
He should start with none and learn them just before the crab.
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.