Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 74

[Dhyerwolf]

Of note, I don't believe Alicia would not have Invoke Feather by now. Status healing would be a go though. Control effectively being 2 PC battle and Ephraim getting past Armored is good (I already factor doubling into the average, and Ephraim will be basically hitting the cap there, so no help). Defender X is still about 3 PC HP (3.5 Pdur after defense), so there's still a bit of slog (I wouldn't see Ephraim both ignoring Armored and hitting an additional weakness).

Assuming stat topic is right about Kunino, it's a pretty hard to limit to hard though. He's...very durable, and solo enemy means that I would not even see him scaled down HP wise thinking on it (FYI, if Eph wants to counter, he's using Javelin since Kunino will be using magic. It will get pretty close, and I'll need to analyze later. But yeah...if I'd see Kunino as 5 PC HP durability normally, he's 20 unscaled.

Rikku is 144% turn 1 speed at endgame, so easily beating out Clarissa.

[Talaysen]

The Persona 4 boss topic used fairly low levels, and levels matter a lot in that game.  Take all values with a mountain of salt.

[SnowFire]

Pass to Team Yoshiken.  Gilder is kinda meh in the Dungeon due to not getting 3 SP until Floor 5, but in one of those Dungeon-is-not-the-game things, he's a passable Ice Mage (!!) at the moment so gets decent damage to compensate.  Also, Kunino-Sagiri can't Control Souji, correct?  Ephraim & Alicia are both leads who tend to be required party members so I'd see at the very minimum Yoshiken picking one of them to be the leader and be immune, and quite possibly for both to be immune anyway.

dude still has the FF / Worker 8 thing, so yeah, pass.

Don't know Team Glen well enough to comment, abstaining, and too lazy too look up / verify the Rikku item use hype and if any of the fights could possibly challenge it.

[Dhyerwolf]

Still need to math out the floor 3 fight, but if you wanted to say Eph was control immune, I would stiuplate that the mechanical balance is that if Eph dies the team dies (Since...mechanically that's probably why Souji was immune. Without that trick, Kunino is a bit dungeon pointless).

[Magic Fanatic]

But it's also on 3a, so unless Kunino uses Control 3 seperate times in-game, then it's still forced to only one character on the enemy team.

Pass to Yoshi.

I want to say...  Pass to Glen?  Even if Emma can't use Great Booster too much, she still has the elemental Zones to dampen the effect of enemy magic.

Abstain on Monkey - that SH2 fight scares me a bit, but I don't know enough about Monkey's three to see how he gets through it.

Abstain on dude.

[Dhyerwolf]

He's still be controlling the tanky character who likely OHKOs most of the rest of his team.

Elemental Zones may help to some degree. Looking at it, GB is probably still the desired action round 1 (Halving Sasarai would be cute, but then he would just MT heal if he wasn't dead and kind of null the first turn). Round 2...Luc is faster. Round 3...it might help, although this fight is less about damage. Round 4...could apply anti Dark, although there is then the flaw that Lenus's back up element isn't too bad (Not as great, and if Elemental Zones are in play, there's no GB. In that case, most of the other Water based people are getting turns). Final fight has to be Great Booster as Ashera is NE, and without that boosted damage, Ashera probably isn't going down fast enough with her Mevade and Mdef. Not sure these really help enough here, but at least give some options.

[Nephrite]

Try and finalize your votes today or tomorrow!

[Dhyerwolf]

Evrae is 2.32 PC HP, has 100% Petrify and 100% Slow (Slow not curable by Status curing, so even if someone is stoned, that's still an issue) and average physical damage
Defender X is 3 PC HP, 3.5 Pdur, can use 114% ITE damage every 4 turns (and assuming he can immediately. 60% Damage otherwise that's crazed accuracy anyways) and counters every third attack with 50% MHP and 50% delay.

Ephraim hits Evrae, Evrae stones Ephraim, 1 of Jessica/Alicia/Eiko can status heal (but now he is Slow. I...don't believe the team has a counter to this really?) 2 can attack.

Gilder can attack and then perhaps can get the jump and use Aura of Denial next turn (on Ephraim, since it's ST now). Evrae can get another status on say...whichever of Jessica or Alicia is slower is the obvious answer. Defender X is will attack the other one. The next Ephraim attack should get Evrae out of the way (Ephraim x2+Eiko+Jessica x2+Gilder so that should be fine, unless you see slow meaning Eph only gets 1 attack instead of 2 due to AS dropping). Team status...Ephraim is slowed and taken minor damage, Jessica is at 35% (Taken 1 attack from Defender X this round), Gilder is at full, Alicia is stoned (If Alicia can block now, switch her and Jessica). Defender X is at full. Next round...if Jessica status heals Alicia, she'll still be slow and Jessica will be killed by Defender X. So...there's some diceyness at this point. The key is that Eph can't ever take the counter (And Defender X's big attack and normal attack may get him too). It's quite possible to come out okay here.

Team Yoshiken vs. Kunino-Sagiri- We'll call Kunino 20 PC HP (32 unscaled by the topic). Let's assume everyone can heal up to full. He has time to kill Eiko and Jessica's MP pretty dead (Throw in Gilder for good measure?). He'll also get the 6 turns to control Ephraim. Kill Eiko, kill Alicia, kill Jessica. Hit Gilder, Hit Gilder, ? (Have Ephraim hit himself). Now if you scale Kunino's HP here, obviously they are fine. Otherwise, Ephraim is needing to hit a lot. This gets better if you don't see Ephraim killing the girls in one hit (Although they makes the last fight worse). Gut is that they get worn down here. The key to this fight is not running out of MP if you have a PC that can disable everyone else.

If Yoshi gets past this floor, I think next floor is probably the end anyways. He gains no revival (Jessica and Alicia are probably floor 5 at least), doesn't have AoD turn 1, and...next floor is where status starts coming into play.

[Dhyerwolf]

Oh wow, this also won't apply to many but Sasarai has some a normally worthless option that doesn't fully suck here

Lv1- Guardian Earth- Field Dispel and Status Curing [26 Charge]

This is 1.1 SD faster than average, meaning that at 15% SD, it's below 120% but above Virginia (Aka: Anything Emma does buffing wise is cancelled thanks to field dispel). This would be really bad, and seals my vote even more (But yeah, this would mean Land Umber would get a turn regardless and can start tying up the team with Sleep and OHKOs).

[Magic Fanatic]

To be fair, on that first fight, summoning Justine has a decent chance of IDing Sasarai and Scarmiglione.  She could arguably try using that until it kills both, leaving just Land Umber left to beat down...  Possibly, anyway.  Going by what you're saying, though, that's just as bad.  Would Sasarai's Guardian Earth work on field effects, or is that just a fancy way of saying it hits all enemies and allies at the same time?

Side note, would Dark Zone + Lust Jaw summon deal more damage than a raw Hope Shard summon?  EDIT: Nope.  Just asked in chat, got told Phantasmal Heart deals 2x all the elemental summons, so that'd basically be the difference between 1.5x dark damage vs. 2x non-elemental damage, though Hope Shard CAN at least by buffed by Magic Zone.

[Dhyerwolf]

The only S3 field effect I believe is Silent Lake, so it can't be tested. But given the thoroughness of Guardian Earth (aka: even getting your own PCs rare enough buffs), it feels like it pretty thoroughly gets everything.

[Dark Holy Elf]

There's another one, Battlefield.

Also, Scarmiglione is vulnerable to ID?

[Magic Fanatic]

Also, Scarmiglione is vulnerable to ID?

I'm...  Not actually sure on that.  I just read that Justine could ID undead, so I suppose I jumped to conclusions.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Well Wild Arms doesn't give its undead blanket ID immunity unlike some games, so I guess you just read someone's reaction who was surprised by this. I haven't seen anything that suggests Justine ignores ID immunity on undead, which is what it would have to do here.

[Yoshiken]

Evrae is 2.32 PC HP, has 100% Petrify and 100% Slow (Slow not curable by Status curing, so even if someone is stoned, that's still an issue)

Status healing is determined by the attacking status now? FFIX Esuna hits Slow.
If you're arguing that Esuna won't catch that because FFX Slow can't be healed, then I suppose you also don't have any attacks as ITE?
Also, as I said before, there is no way in hell that Eph is OHKOing anyone on the team. Eph is dealing, at endgame, 0.8 PCHP. At this stage, he doesn't have ridiculous weapons, and endgame damage from others isn't enough to push him higher. If anything, his damage is less than 0.8 PCHP, possibly about the same.

And yeah, next floor is always going to be the problematic one. If I can make it past that, things get a LOT easier. ;o

Edit: Edited my analysis for Team Glen into my analysis post. Takes a few interp calls, which I don't think I'm in a position to make, so I'll leave that to the dungeon master. ;)

[Dhyerwolf]

Isn't one of Ephraim's advantages supposed to be great starting stats and growths? This includes speed (and everyone doubling every isn't as much a thing as endgame, I think) and strength. I thought that would balance out to a large degree since he doesn't have the cap issue yet?

Hmm, if FF IX Esuna gets Slow, that helps (Note that most things are evadable by Eph to me, but certain not an ST attack getting past FF X E&C). But if I'm notably overrated Eph's damage (especially if he's not even killing Eiko), that hurts in the previous fight in terms of rushing. They will be better off. So...lots of trades off. Say Eph's damage is 70%. What if...Evrae status's Gilder. Eiko can protect herself, attack or status heal Gilder (Although...Gilder will be KOed by Defender X now if his HP is basically not at full, as Defender X does like 96-97% to him with the big move). So, there's a catch no matter what. Rush Evrae and both Eiko and Gilder are left disabled, and one attack from each girl and two from Ephraim may not KO Evrae (The girls will need to rip off 0.9 PC HP, which they may do. They may not). Esuna may be a f4 pickup for Eiko (She doesn't start with it and joins floor 4ish kind of). If Evrae gets off two attacks, seems like it's over. So many pieces, and there's a lot of way it can fall against your team.

[SnowFire]

This is BC Ephraim so yes, he does annihilate everyone else on Yoshi's team (except for maaaaaaaaaybe Gilder but I doubt it).  Moot since I'd let Eph immune the charm anyway, but.