Parties & Rivals Team Tourney 2 - Nominations

[SnowFire]

General idea is the same as last time.  8 slots per division, 4 of which are unscaled bosses, 4 of which are PC teams from a single game, they all get randomly paired then fight it out.

PC teams vs. bosses is what happens quite a lot in normal RPGs, after all.  The conversations on GenocideHeart, and Izanami showing up in Tide's Floor 10 Dungeon opponents, reminded me that this would be fun to do again, since a few bosses normally not safe for the DL get to play as well.  I think I made a mistake with the earlier tourney in that I stuffed it too full of my picks without enough group noms, so I'm leaving the floor much more open this time.  The previous tournament was all final-ish bosses, but any boss is eligible this time.  In the same way, any PC team is nommable, although preferably aim to fill out the default cast size of the game - e.g. a Final Fantasy V team should ideally have 4 characters.  This is a more general and vague request, but try not to have swingy teams with 1 killer trick but terrible Plan Bs, since they tend to end up as straight spoilers.

For an idea of what sample teams fit in a divison, see the original list at
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4496.0

Edit: To be clear, part of party size is also that general in-game rules apply.  Bosses get all their parts, Mana Khemia characters can switch in & out of the Vanguard, etc.

Note I'm just listing all vaguely ready noms up here, but I can't guarantee these will all get in since there's too many PC teams at the moment.  (Can expand the tourney at worst, though.)

Godlike
Razeluxe Meitzen, Etward Dysler, Lilianne Valendorf, Puniyo, Yun (MK2)
Haken Browning, Kaguya Nanbu, KOS-MOS, Xiaomu (SRWOG:EF)
Asellus, WhiteRose, Mesarthim, Meilin, Riki? (Saga Frontier)
Chris, Geddoe, Hugo, Sasarai, Luc, Emily (S3)

Belial? (Wild Arms 4)
Zophar? (Lunar 2)
Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4)
Melc Crystal? (Grandia 3) (No stat topic, so maybe not.)
Orphan? (Final Fantasy 13)
Jenna Angel (DDS)

Heavy
Ramza, Agrias, Mustadio, Orlandu, Meliadoul (Final Fantasy Tactics) (Middle champion of tourney 1)
Yuri Lowell, Karol Capel, Rita Mordio, Estellise Sidos Heurassin (ToV)
White Mage / Summoner / Ninja / Samurai (FF5)
Yuri, Kurando, Joachim and Anastasia? (Shadow Hearts 2)

The Dark One (AtL2)
Ghaleon (Lunar:SSSC)
Myria? (Breath of Fire 3)
Kornell 3 + Violetta 1? (Grandia 3)

Middle
Dorothy, Strawman, Lion and Tin Man (WoO)
Cthulhu, Umi, Dacre, October (CSTW)
Extremist, High Cavalier, Sacred Slayer, Enigmancer, Strider, Fantastica (WAXF)
Stocke / Aht / Eruca (RH)
Ness/Paula/Jeff/Poo (EB)

Loki (VP) (Light champion of tourney 1)
Melfice (G2)
Exor (SMRPG)
Apocryapha (RH)

Light
Jr., MOMO and Allen Ridgeley (XS3)
Pikachu, Blastoise, Charizard, Venusaur, Snorlax, Lapras (Pokemon)
Zed/ Jane/Emma (WA:ACF)
Serge/Glenn/Irenes (CC)
Peppita, Albel, Adray (SO3)

Luca Blight? (S2)
King Khalamari? (DQ8)
Edna (Shadow Hearts 3)
Zalera (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Kuwadora (BoF2)
Marcello (DQ8)

Unknown:
Reyva?
FF4DS Zeromus?
Ceodore, Ursula, Edge, Palom, Edward? (FF4-2)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Some options:

Team We're Off To See The Wizard~

Dorothy, Strawman, Lion and Tin Man (WAoO), with rows allowed.

Team WE'RE OFFENSIVE TO GOD

Jr., MOMO and Allen Ridgeley (XS3)

Team Flay's Business Mobsters

Razeluxe Meitzen, Etward Dysler, Lilianne Valendorf, Puniyo and Yun (MK2) (With Vanguard allowed)

Team Cthulhu's Entourage

Cthulhu, Umi, Dacre, October (CSTW)

Team They Don't Care If The Wind's At Their Face!

Extremist, High Cavalier, Sacred Slayer, Enigmancer, Strider, Fantastica (WAXF)

Team I Yearn For Your Suffering

Haken Browning, Kaguya Nanbu, Reiji Arisu, Xiaomu (SRWOG:EF)


Only team assessments I can make fairly are Godlike for the MK2 and EF teams (MK2 probably scrapes Godlike due to Puniyo's egregious MT healing+revival+Vanguard, and Raze's team generally sports stronger offense than Ulrika's. EF... yeah, SRW spirits, have broke will cheese)

[DjinnAndTonic]

Team Reinforcements
Revya (On her first turn, she can summon Danette, Vitali, Juno, Grunzford, Odie, Tricia, and Layna)

What? The max Soul Nomad team size is 9. It makes sense and even comes with a built-in first round handicap. Still probably Godlike due to Team size.

Team The After Years
Ceodore, Ursula, Edge, Palom, Edward

FF4-2 forms FTW. Probably Heavy based on Edward's broken item-healing alone. If you allow Palom Doublecast, it might swing Godlike, but otherwise, probably just Heavy.

Team SaGaDL
Asellus, WhiteRose, Mesarthim, Meilin, Riki

Intentionally kind of a weak team so that it might swing Heavy instead of Godlike.

[Yoshiken]

I'd totally nominate Team P4 for Light, on the condition that Souji death = team loses. >.>;
(Alternatively, team P4 for Godlike or whatever.)

Also, a Pokemon team: 6 duelists, but they only battle one by one. Almost certain to be Light/Middle, even with the best available~
(For this, I would totally choose Pikachu, Blastoise, Charizard, Venusaur, Snorlax, Lapras. >.>; )

As for fun bosses.. uh.. I got nothing.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Team Reinforcements
Revya (On her first turn, she can summon Danette, Vitali, Juno, Grunzford, Odie, Tricia, and Layna)

What? The max Soul Nomad team size is 9. It makes sense and even comes with a built-in first round handicap. Still probably Godlike due to Team size.

The turn-getting handicap is pretty cosmetic since summoning doesn't take Revya's turn and she has initiative. Whether the team makes Godlike... hmmm. The FE swarm team had about as many people and made Heavy. The individual team members are stronger, though. Interesting to think about, since crowd control's still ridiculously important in this kind of setup (for instance, this team gets maimed by any team with Tir if Revya fails to OHKO him!), but the offensive potential is pretty huge (Grunzford, Layna, Odie and Revya all deal tons of damage).

Incidentally, SaGa DL team is honestly more of a Godlike effort too, Mes/WR/Mei-ling team up for OHKO-level MT off good speed and LifeRain is so much -hax- in this format, running off a durable, fast PC. Not to mention LightSword is even better in team matches due to the parry affecting the whole party. Riki's rings are also neat.

[Talaysen]

Team Cthulhu's Entourage

Cthulhu, Sharpe, Umi, Dacre, October (CSTW)

Wasn't CStW's party size 4?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Team Cthulhu's Entourage

Cthulhu, Sharpe, Umi, Dacre, October (CSTW)

Wasn't CStW's party size 4?

Right, lemme correct that.

[SnowFire]

Hmm, so nobody has nominated any bosses yet I'll point out.  (Admittedly bosses are tricky since plenty of Godlike DL bosses are Light in this format!)

Jo'ou: The Fire Emblem swarm last time was actually Middle, but they did okay in Middle.  As for your noms...
* I don't know WoO well enough for sure, but I assume that team is Light since they're only getting 4 impulses worth of turns, meaning their team damage isn't much better than their individual DL average?  Unless they've got a good defensive/stalling game, in which case they're Middle.  Please advise.
* Team CSTW is tricky.  Inclined to say Middle.  Dacre's buffs gives 'em a pretty good anti-boss game but they only have one shot of revival and it's on Umi which will bite them horribly.  (Unless there's some Unite I'm forgetting that upgrades them to Heavy.)
* Team XS3 is obviously Light.  MOMO is not really a threat in this format.
* Raze's MK2 team is Godlike, yeah, that came up in the previous nomination packet.  Ulrika's team 3-way tied for a Heavy Championship anyway.
* WAXF team... uh...  yeah not really sure.  That's a lot of people and Strider + Extremist is some annoying spoiling against non-ITE but Sacred Slayer's healing is kind of terrible.  Wacky spoiler Middle?
* EF I'll take your word on as Godlike.

Djinn: I'll let the SagaDL people chime in, but feel free to throw out suggestions to make it either firmly Godlike or firmly Heavy.  (Maybe it already is.)

Yoshi: We had that last time!  6 Pokemon but 2 at a time, which nerfs them somewhat less, still in Light but a decent Light.  Feel free to provide a new list of 6.
As for Persona 4 w/Souji, that was in the final uberGodlike bonus match vs. a slightly nerfed Team FFX, where Souji crushed everything.  He's got some pretty serious spoiling going on (phys immunity means even switching out initiative Auron for Wakka -> Triple Foul still does nothing!).

[Pyro]

Team Suiko3:
Chris (TWater), Geddoe (TLightning), Hugo (TFire), Sasarai (TEarth), Luc (TWind), Emily (TSMASH)
Not going for synergy or anything like that. Probably Godlike on account of # PCs and there being way too many True Runes here. I can sub out Luc for someone if anybody objects, but come on! 5 True Runes!

Boss: The Dark One, AtL2.
Dude is a straight up grind-test, but probably a Heavy or Middle in this environment!

Boss: Ghaleon, Lunar 1
Another resource grind, but with more threatening offense to boot. Heavy/Godlike.

Team Brave Vesperia:
Yuri Lowell, Karol Capel, Rita Mordio, Estellise Sidos Heurassin
Heavy? Only one rezzer and she's.... well she's actually pretty durable but still a weak-link. Yuri and Rita can tear some shit up. Taunting into Overlimit Astion'd BlahBlahBlah Rocks Fall Everybody Dies is a potentially viable (and horrifically effective) strategy.

Boss: Luca Blight
HAHAHAHA DIE PIGGIES! Triple-acted Flame Slashes are wallable. Middle?

Team Alchemy: (Atelier Totori). Totori, Rorona, Mimi
Godlike. It's basically "OHKO Totori and Rorona before they get a turn or else" Other teams won't have a problem with that though, and some bosses will MT-wipe em. Mimi's just there to look pretty.

Boss: Belial (WA4):
Godlike. I don't think this lady requires any justification. Will slaughter teams in ways too horrible to speak of.

Boss: Zophar (Lunar 2)
Godlike: Zophar with his three parts is a nasty mother.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Jo'ou: The Fire Emblem swarm last time was actually Middle, but they did okay in Middle.  As for your noms...
* I don't know WoO well enough for sure, but I assume that team is Light since they're only getting 4 impulses worth of turns, meaning their team damage isn't much better than their individual DL average?  Unless they've got a good defensive/stalling game, in which case they're Middle.  Please advise.

I'm entirely unsure. The format entirely changes the damage averages (it actually may go down considerably since you have to factor ratio-to-damage efficiency and all that jazz) and the existence of back row means that there's some cheese to be had (stuff like Strawman First Wind on Tin Man => Dorothy Power Boost on Tin Man => whatever => Tin Man unleashes initiative MT cheese damage that gets crazier the lower his HP), but it's very hard to assess just how effective this can be (there are defensive games too, the team is oddly versatile). Depending on how you factor damage, Light is pretty much out of the question. Of course, Dorothy herself could solo sleep-vulnerable teams and Strawman can cause serious grief to confuse-vulnerable teams himself. It's just not an easy team to pin down in terms of ranking. I think, depending on how damage curves pan out, this team could -possibly- make Heavy, even (it just hit me that Dorothy could Overclock first turn, spam healing on herself and then Melt Down x4 for MT OHKO turn two, among other things. There's just so much strange shit this party can do with Ratio system shenanigans, yet it can bring the party down in other strange ways too), but I'm not sure. Eh, slap it on Middle and see what happens.

* WAXF team... uh...  yeah not really sure.  That's a lot of people and Strider + Extremist is some annoying spoiling against non-ITE but Sacred Slayer's healing is kind of terrible.  Wacky spoiler Middle?

Turn Shift, mang. Probably pretty wacky in Middle indeed.

Djinn: I'll let the SagaDL people chime in, but feel free to throw out suggestions to make it either firmly Godlike or firmly Heavy.  (Maybe it already is.)

The team is probably Godlike to me as well. Mesarthim has a cheesy skillset and LifeRain is full MT healing+revival on everyone but herself, and the team sports two other healers (possibly three if Riki's healing is targettable, and healing+revive on the same move, all that jazz). Also, OHKO-level combined MT damage off similar speed ranges that are on the side of good. Durability woes keep them in check, but that's some pretty good team synergy and crowd control.

[Clear Tranquil]

Onward! Defrosted Tuna Team~ (SO3) Peppita, Albel, Adray (Middle?)

Middle? - Durablity and speed isn't hot, unless you allow Peppita and Albel to utilise their counters to an extent i.e vs base physicals 'n stuff and I think Dhyer and I are the only ones who take Peppita on the faster side of average (or also in my case base her starting speed on whichever skill she's opening with something like dances being fast because their effect start taking place immediately) Adray is definitely a tad on the slow side in general (though his menu casting spells is faster than Sophia's which is why I picked him instead) Raw power isn't great either apart from Peppita. Status options are scary evil though with Albel and Peppita in particular being chaos fiends. Also plenty of MP damage too (though Adray doesn't do 19'000~ MP damage with Sirocco, the GFaqs battle skill FAQ is wrong, it's only a 4.5% per hit modifier not 45% >_>)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

That team is Light. Damage and healing (Adray's healing certainly won't be as good as Nel's with having considerably less time to build it up, and it's ST. Peppita's healing takes some time to build up properly midbattle and gets in the way of her other skillset options) needs serious work and there's only one reviver, not to mention they're frail and slow outside Albel and not numerous. Peppita support can do pretty mean things, but she needs to pick and choose -what- she needs to do due to CP concerns (if she's healing and buffing damage, her only offensive options are BASIC PHYSICALS, for an instance. That's well sub-Mint damage and the rest of the team sucks at offense too), and she's a walking "kick me" sign to boot who sports subpar speed and durability if she's going that route - in fact, I suspect the prime strategy for most teams going against yours will be "bumrush the hell out of Peppita and watch everything fall apart", because Adray speed and revival not being full will just keep hands busy all around. Bad crowd control doesn't do them favors either.

[Clear Tranquil]

*nod nods*~

Thanks for the input Snow. Light works.

How would Nel be instead of Albel by the way? I was thinking Adray has Fairy Light for MT healing and Albel has Vampiric Flash to keep himself going so Peppita wouldn't need to be entirely dedicated to support so much but if Nel's Healing would be better and take support pressure of Peppita hnn I dunno. Peppita can set Power Dance (6 CP), Healing/Magical Dance (6 CP) , Magic Hook (2 CP, chaos)/ Frozen Daggers (3 CP, freeze) ... she wants to chain the healing to build it up, she could do Healing Dance > Frozen Daggers or Healing Dance > Power Dance, with the third skill being unchainable or range shifting w/th Power Dance > Magic Hook > Healing Dance hnn ... but using Nel might give her the option to set Power Dance > Faerie Friend instead if she gets some non support breathing space in. Though running Peppita/Albel/Adray in Light might still be interesting.

Edit - Oh they're fighting Bosses not any other potential status bait PC teams? >_> Whoops *read the fine print CT, bad* <_< I must have been thinking of something else/some similar team based tournament from before or something~

[SnowFire]

They're (potentially) fighting both, CT.  There will be 4 bosses + 4 PC teams by default per division, then randomly paired, so PC vs. PC, Boss vs. PC, and Unscaled Boss vs. Unscaled Boss all show up.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

*nod nods*~

Thanks for the input Snow. Light works.

How would Nel be instead of Albel by the way? I was thinking Adray has Fairy Light for MT healing and Albel has Vampiric Flash to keep himself going so Peppita wouldn't need to be entirely dedicated to support so much

At what level does Adray get Fairy Light and what is its base? I wasn't even thinking of that, honestly, but it'd probably be considerably -worse- than Healing if it needs the proficiency as well... and, well, Vampiric Flash, you see, is -horrible- at dealing damage. If Albel's draingaming, he's stuck with amazing 15HKO damage. Granted, his offense hovers around 4HKO at its -best-... but yeah. The main problem there is pressure - the team just doesn't do it that well. I guess it's a winning Light team due to variety, but mang, they'd get mangled by like the FE team.

EDIT: Also, Magic Hook is horrible damage. >_> If Peppita wants to do real DL offense, she's Fairy Friending or just giving up in despair.

EDIT2: Although, with the options, maybe they're Middle after all. SO3 teams, headaches. Have to keep in mind that Light's really floundered with the dregs of Giga City.

[Nephrite]

Not sure where to put these, so please feel free to use your own judgment.


Shadow Hearts 2:

Yuri, Kurando, Joachim and Anastasia (Guessing Godlike? No idea.)



Radiant Historia

Stocke, Raynie and Marco (Middle...?)  (Maybe Stocke, Aht and Eruca would be more interesting?)



If someone hadn't already nommed a Saga Team I'd nominate an all Mec team.

As for bosses... hmm.


*Lete River Ultros (Go to Light, you fucker)
*Melfice (Probably Heavy?)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Anyhow, some bosses!

Ameno-Sagiri (Persona 4) - Godlike. Ameno has the exactly right damage mix (strong 2HKO of both types) for dealing with teams and sports a fair deal of variety. The fog gimmick also puts pressure on many teams as well. He's no Brahman, but he's quite alright. I'm kind of an eyeball fangirl anyway.

King Khalamari (Dragon Quest 8) - Light. MT 3HKO! ... hope you don't have MT healing, boys.

Deus (Xenogears) - Light. Um yeah. >_> Do you have healing y/n litmus test.

Melc Crystal (Grandia 3) - Godlike. That pressure unscaled -has- to be tons of fun.

Exor (SMRPG) - Heavy. Okay, the parts summed up really do a lot of damage... but they're horrendously frail and not a lot of it is MT. Iunno, I suspect Heavy teams can handle the pressure just fine.

Malice Edna (SH3) - Middle. Durability probably could still use work, but I generally feel the typical SH3 boss package is pretty mean for Light teams to handle.

Also, Lete River Ultros is probably a Heavy. People, MT borderline OHKO with Tentacle doubleacting off solid speed and reasonable enough durability. And unscaled Melfice gets the parts too, right? That's... probably a bit good for Heavy.

[Nephrite]

Oh, I thought unscaled meant that you were supposed to take endgame stats against them.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Yeah, unscaled, from what I can gather at least, is just not scaling boss HP down.

[SnowFire]

Yeah, that's what unscaled means, no scaling vs. party size, they should only care about how many hits it takes to kill them.  (Yes this favors bosses that face large casts in-game in this setting.)

Melfice is probably Low Middle.  His MT 2HKO is not strong, and getting a OHKO requires a Sword turn + his big ST tech lining up, and is just barely a OHKO.  Durability is okay but nothing special.

Khalamari doesn't register even in Light.  Remember, Kuja's got an MT 2HKO + Reflect tricks and got nowhere in Light.

Ameno-Sagiri I'd kneejerk as a Heavy, but I could be forgetting something, not really a P4 expert.

I'll think on the RH teams, they feel a bit good for Light but will get owned in Middle.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Ameno has borderline MT OHKO straight off along with debuffs and status and two limit phases where he becomes invincible to build up to undispellable MT overkill.

EDIT: Also, I don't mind Khalamari being a Puny. He'll probably own the inevitable S3 dog teams of the world or something. <_< >_>

[SnowFire]

Can someone who knows The After Years verify if that team is in fact Heavy?  If unsure, pretend they fought some Heavies from the last tournament and see who'd win.

Jo'ou: Oh yeah double-acting never mind, Ameno is Godlike, sure.

Deus is boring and doesn't have a stat topic, so no.

Edna is probably Light, if a good Light.  Sudden Stock-based surges fail it a lot more in boss vs. boss confrontations as they just get tanked, and healing her damage keeps her double from even being a OHKO.  Mental Break is actually probably what can sell her, as there's definitely a time limit to beat her.

Anyway, as a certain nomination of my own...

Orphan (FF13), Godlike.  I'd actually be inclined to think of Orphan as a Heavy, since their offense is not particularly amazing for a long time.  But that durability is just so amazing that I think it's better to stick them in Godlike and let them face broken, since a decent number of PC teams just can't muscle through that HP before they end up statused to hell & back, and bosses just fail to outslug the HP.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Iunno, Snowfire. She -does- have that fast recharge crap that makes her pressure more impressive. I think that alone makes her a bit problematic for Lights to handle - I mean, look at what happens to that XS3 team (which shouldn't even be -that- bad for Light! Two healers! Jr.'s Overtaker is actually pretty neat!) against her.

EDIT!:

Deus is boring and doesn't have a stat topic, so no.

You're no fun. ;_;

[Magic Fanatic]

PC Teams:

Wild Arms: Alter Code F Extras - Zed/ Jane/Emma for Light.
Chrono Cross - Serge/Glenn/Irenes for...  Middle?  Light?  One of the two, I'm not sure.
Mother 3 - Lucas/Kumatora/Duster/Boney for possibly Middle?
Earthbound - Ness/Paula/Jeff/Poo for Heavy - Ness and Poo have actually passable status options.

Bosses:

SMRPG:  PUNCHINELLO - Middle?  Also for the "NEB will kill me" factor.
FF4DS:  Zeromus - Where does he go?
FFT: Zalera - Middle.
BoF2: Kuwadora - Middle of some Flavor?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

The EB team is probably Middle at best. Paula is almost a complete non-factor (4HKO damage and Nina3-level durability? Winning combo) and Jeff himself is completely useless. Poo's status options also honestly suck. Ness being below average speed is also kinda bleh due to him being so status-vulnerable and he's the only really impressive team member otherwise. They can MT one-round, which is nice, but the finishing blow is below average speed too and the speed spread between them means they're easy to heal off. Two revivers, at least, but one of them has shit resources.

EDIT: The power level in this tournament is kind of unbalanced in terms of scale. Godlike has shit like -Brahman- flying around impunely, so that gives you an idea. I also suspect Punchinello is total Light-bait, his only good offense comes from Bob-ombs who risk getting 2HKOed by MT in-game. That's not working out when even Light teams tend to have some degree MT and revival. Kuwadora, similarly, could end up in Light, since he's entirely ST and I think he even has status vulnerabilities to exploit. CC team is condemned to Light as well.