Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 87

[Nephrite]

"Hmm... Let's see if I can change things up a little bit and make things more interesting!"


Link to the Dungeon Wiki!

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**Full Heals reset limit and other types of gauges when teams pass through them.

Team Snowfire | Fang, Vanille, Snow (Firefly), Lightning (Leader), Hope
Floor 3a: A Singlet
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, are single target for this floor and may be targetted regardless of original conditions.
Team Snowfire vs. Atma Weapon and Narshe Kefka
Team Snowfire vs. Evrae and Defender X
Team Snowfire vs. Kunino-Sagiri
**Full Heal
Team Snowfire vs. Adramelk and Velius
Team Snowfire vs. Zog and Sara

Team Magic | Shania, Rydia (Life)+Rosa, Hilda, Jane, Nall
Floor 3a: A Singlet
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, are single target for this floor and may be targetted regardless of original conditions.
Team Magic vs. Atma Weapon and Narshe Kefka
Team Magic vs. Evrae and Defender X
Team Magic vs. Kunino-Sagiri
**Full Heal
Team Magic vs. Adramelk and Velius
Team Magic vs. Zog and Sara

Team Tal | Celes (Speed?) Nel, Lyn, Yukiko, Cray
[Celes: Kirin, Siren]
Floor 2b: Magical Mystery
Team Tal vs. FFT Wizard, FF1 Black Wizard, FF5 Black Mage and Vivi
Team Tal vs. Nina1, Nina2 and Nina3
Team Tal vs. Lemina, Mia, Ronfar, Jessica and Luna
Team Tal vs. Sarah (S3), Cleo and Bernadette
Team Tal vs. Lyon and Nergal

Team Random | Jerin, Eileen, Billy(Neo Speed), Kyra, Raynie
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team Random vs. Hrist (VP1), Evil Gaia, Big Joe, Snowe(S4) and Gorudo
Team Random vs. Bronzog, Galleon, FFT Knight and Kwanda Rossman (S1)
Team Random vs. Blissey, Axem Green, Augst and Lucius
Team Random vs. Mist Dragon, Whelk, Wingraptor (FF5), Garland (FF1) and LORD OCHU (FFX)
Team Random vs. Lich and Kraken

Firefly - The first attack of each enemy will be redirected at the bearer of this sealstone. Multitarget  moves are not affected. If a status is used that prevents the target from acting (Petrify, Sleep, etc.) then the effect is nullified until the status is removed.

Life - One character's healing effects now also allows for revival, but reduces the final effect of any healing to 75%. (This means full healing is always 75%) The healing also only revives characters with 1 HP. The healing received from spells that hit more than one target may be used as revival once per battle.

Speed? - The effective speed of one character is set to 120% (1.2x) average speed. This number may be further increased by speed-increasind effects.

Neo Speed - The effective speed of one character is increased by 20% and increases 20% each time that character takes a turn, this effect caps at 200% base speed. The speed of this character cannot be increased in any way, nor can this character grant or be granted turns via any manner. If the character dies the speed is removed and cannot be regained.

[SnowFire]

Talaysen passes.  Celes speedily summons Siren and Mutes most of the opposing team, not really in the mood for researching who exactly immunes it, but I'm sure it's enough to put a giant dent in all these fights.  (Because we all know that alluring music renders enemies speechless somehow.)  There is one problem fight, and it's the final, as I assume Lyon & Nergal are status immune and have solid Resistance anyway, so no Silence hax here, and also knock the stuffing out of anyone who tries to damage them with counters, and Team Tal's healing is kind of shoddy.  However, I assume that he can struggle through, possibly with some well-timed Runics to absorb a counter magic blast.

I pass, it's Singlet vs. Firefly.  I don't think any of these enemies can KO Snow, and while they do have status as a threat, I've got 3 Medics who can cast Esuna.

Random passes, Billy starts with solid healing and presumably so does Jerin.

[Random Consonant]

I pass, abstain on everyone else.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Team Magic | Shania, Rydia (Life)+Rosa, Hilda, Jane, Nall
Floor 3a: A Singlet
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, are single target for this floor and may be targetted regardless of original conditions.
Team Magic vs. Atma Weapon and Narshe Kefka - This now! Jane using Sucker is kind of a trap here: Kefka instantly OHKOs her (look at Ice 2's damage and tell me what happens) and lolololol, and that's assuming she doesn't -miss- (both bosses with higher levels than the average party, say hi) and it's ST now! Fail. On the other hand, she probably -wants- to do it on Kefka anyway because Atma and Kefka are both faster than everybody not named Jane in this team and Kefka OHKOs -everybody here-. Kefka HP... well, let's say he's roughly PC HP, he's facing PCs at least four levels higher than Lee River Ultros (who has the same HP) with better general equipment and whatnot. And he takes 1.55x damage from physicals. At least this is easy. So, I think Hilda wants Pink Bat here even though she gets revival this floor. If Atma is intelligent (and he -is- faster), he'll Rasp Jane so she gets less chances to Sucker this fight and the following ones, since Kefka overkills her as is and he can't OHKO her without his physical (lulz). Meanwhile, Shania/Hilda bumrush Kefka and Rosa revives Janes. Afterwards, they can slowly handle Atma, I think, even though he OHKOs non-Shania people, but I can't see why wouldn't he just drain Jane dry of all her MP before dying instead, since this is so much more efficient for the floor to break this team (and considering Nyarlie himself, I'd see them making the strategic team effort there <_<). Atma should shave off about 60% of Jane's MP at worst assuming Team Magic can two-round him, which feels a -bit- generous, but not unreasonable by any stretch - Atma has above 2x PC raw HP, but sketchy MDef and Shania now has La Sirene and Rydia is Rydia (don't think it's unreasonable for her to have L2s now). So, the team makes this fight alive.
Team Magic vs. Evrae and Defender X - More of that "hey people get OHKOed left and right here" problem in this fight, only with the added insult that Evrae's status is -brutal-. Shania and Hilda even immune it, but they can't heal it (La Sirene doesn't get status healing, at least, Hilda doesn't get any of it period), and they're not soloing Evrae and Defender with only ST healing. Jane probably wants to Sucker Evrae anyway, and Hilda goes Curvy for revival and avoiding OHKOs from Defender X. At least Shania is faster than Defender and should survive his damage once she goes into La Sirene/T'atanka, so. This fight is basically Jane Suckering Evrae and hoping it hits, getting statused and Rosa status healing her if she lives (which isn't entirely solid: if La Sirene doesn't start with Arc Shield, this isn't happening, and I certainly don't think -any- Arc spells are this early, let alone for the fusion you -get- at floor 3 as is). And Rydia lost the healing to me this floor -anyway-, which means :garcia:. Yeeaaaaaaaaaaaaah, not seeing this happen, choosing the ST floor was a bad move. If Jane misses even a single Sucker here, to boot, the team gets brutalized anyway: Slow'd Hilda is going to be completely useless statused, and Rosa getting petrified alone means game over because they have no more status healing and they can't blitz both the bosses before making such a number that they're completely screwed for Kunino-Sagiri. Seriously, Jane on the ST floor was an -awful- idea. At least on the MT floor, you could hype turn two ID on some people here and there and Hilda's ID MT would be pretty useful. Not even bothering with the rest of the floor. Although... maybe if Hilda and Shania start with two stocks, maybe they could blitz one of the bosses, but I have my doubts considering Curvy Hilda offense. EDIT: Hmm, Entrance. Let's assume things go as expected for Jane/Evrae turn one. Sucker, Stone Gaze. I think... I -think- they can kill Evrae this way, Hilda Entrancing Rydia. Thing is, if they do, Rosa -does- die that turn and both Hilda and Shania get lapped by Defender (Hilda -needs- to attack at least once for Evrae to die, so she -has- to double), which means Defender both kills Rosa and Rydia. And if they -barely- can one-turn Evrae, Defender of the 2.3x PC HP won't fold. And... wait, nevermind. Evrae halves all the elements Rydia has that deal damage in this fight. He can't be one-rounded, the end. EDIT: Man, and now I'm even thinking Magic might make it if he just got through this fight - Shania nearly solos Kunino-Sagiri and the team'd probably juuuuuuuust squeak by the Zodiac fight's status whoring, and Zog+Sara are a big slog, but unable to kill two people a turn, giving him a pass. But no, he can't deal with Evrae+Defender X -at all- because they both spoil his very limited blitzing either through defenses or elemental walling.

Team Tal | Celes (Speed?) Nel, Lyn, Yukiko, Cray
[Celes: Kirin, Siren]
Floor 2b: Magical Mystery
Team Tal vs. FFT Wizard, FF1 Black Wizard, FF5 Black Mage and Vivi
Team Tal vs. Nina1, Nina2 and Nina3
Team Tal vs. Lemina, Mia, Ronfar, Jessica and Luna
Team Tal vs. Sarah (S3), Cleo and Bernadette
Team Tal vs. Lyon and Nergal - Yeah sure. Lyn and Nel are very good to handle the Suikomage fight and Lyn probably one-rounds Nergal as well (<______________<). Not to mention half the fights get manhandled by Siren cheese (holy -crap- does Siren make the Lunar mages fail).

Team Random | Jerin, Eileen, Billy(Neo Speed), Kyra, Raynie
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team Random vs. Hrist (VP1), Evil Gaia, Big Joe, Snowe(S4) and Gorudo
Team Random vs. Bronzog, Galleon, FFT Knight and Kwanda Rossman (S1)
Team Random vs. Blissey, Axem Green, Augst and Lucius
Team Random vs. Mist Dragon, Whelk, Wingraptor (FF5), Garland (FF1) and LORD OCHU (FFX)
Team Random vs. Lich and Kraken - Christ, Jerin and Kyra literally fry Lich.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Nobody going to vote on Nyarlie anymore? =(

[Clear Tranquil]

Yeth. Teams Magic, SnowFire, Tal and random vs Dungeon~

[Magic Fanatic]

All Teams vs. Dungeon

I have Entrance and Entrance can be Combo'd out of, Snow has Firefly, and Tal/Random are still on the early floors.

[dude789]

Tal and Random pass, abstain on Snowfire for now.

Magic fails. As Jo'ou mentioned Jane's mp  is getting blasted in the first fight which compounds problems in the second. He probably taps Hilda with one as well to steal a shot of Entrance. Rosa is the only one who can heal status so she gets hit with petrify immediately and Rydia gets OHKOed by a basic Defender physical if someone doesn't intervene. I don't think they can take out either of the bosses before a Haymaker turn+Evrae turn take out one of the SH3 girls and if they even make it to the Kunino fight they'll be in terrible shape.   

[SnowFire]

dude: For what it's worth in case you drop a vote later, Snow is at Sentinel role level 2-3 right now, which means 37-40% damage reduction.  Off 1.25 PCHP, that's 2.08 effective PCHP short of badass ITD that even bypasses FF13 resistances.  Once Snow gets a turn for longer fights (like Kunino-Sagiri), Challenge -> Steelguard makes Snow even more stupidly durable.  FF13 Esuna is explicitly "get rid of the last negative status placed" so shouldn't have a problem with ailments not in FF13.

Team Magic.  Hmm, should probably look at that more closely.  I should add that Evrae really fails to me at least because of the long range issue.  After turn 1, assuming a turn can be spared to order the airship back, Evrae becomes a 5HKO machine with no more status.  Fear.  Also to Team Magic's credit, I'll add that Sucker's hit rate against the higher level hardly sounds bad - level 18 boss vs. a lvl. 14 Jane would be a ~78% chance of hitting, and later on a lvl. 54 boss vs. a lvl. 50 party would be ~92%.  Although in fairness it needing to be reapplied every turn means there's more chance for failure.  I'm going to assume that if Life is still on Rydia that we're still assuming Child Rydia, for all that Child Rydia has her own perils.  (Not really clear when she should switch anyway since it's a F1-late F4 or so.)

Jo'ou's analysis is basically on for the first fight, Atma Rasps a bunch of MP.  No idea how to take Atma's durability but he surely gets off 2 Rasps, possibly 3.
Team Magic vs. Evrae and Defender X
Okay, Jane Suckers Evrae.  Evrae Stone/Slows Jane.  Shania...  checking a FAQ, she gets Arc Shield at 120 Soul.  No idea if that's reasonable yet.  If it is, Hilda moves the airship out of range, Shania casts Arc Shield, and Defender X is forced to kill Child Rydia which is irrelevant, and the team can probably just heal their way through Defender X's beatings.
Let's say Shania doesn't have Arc Shield.  Okay, this is MF Entrance hype then.  I'm going to wildly guess Shania as doing .50 PCHP damage at this point pre Floor 7 Shania damage surge nonsense.  So she does 1.25 PCHP damage.  That isn't enough to kill anyone.  Right, Plan B.  Hilda moves the airship back, Shania does something, then Rosa dies, but I'm not sure it matters.  Rydia drops a Chocobo on Defender X, Evrae now fails forever except for killing targets Rydia revived, Shania keeps the damage flowing, and Curvy Hilda revives Rosa every turn.  Her revival apparently costs 36 MP, which isn't too bad so long as she doesn't use Entrance, but Atma definitely would have wanted to Rasp Hilda, not Jane, so....  that's 6-8 shots at this point int he game?  Which thanks to Atma is more like 3 shots.  Still, Chocobos & Shania should be emitting PCHP damage a turn or so, so Defender should die just as Hilda runs out of MP.  Which is a bit sticky in that with Stone Statue Jane, the mildly fast Evrae can deny a Rydia 1HP revival of Rosa, so Hilda wants Defender dead before he can kill Rosa one last time.  That said, if Curvy Hilda has the last word on the revival, then Rosa can cure Jane, and then the team will be in moderately okay shape for fight 3 except that Hilda will have no MP.

Team Magic vs. Kunino-Sagiri
Aside from having built some stock from the previous fight, well-timed Sucker spam should deal with him.  Apparently his Quad Converge phase is only from 75-50% HP so a SH3 double should smash through it easily enough.  Charming Jane isn't very helpful.  Hilda shouldn't really need MP for this.
*Full Heal*
Team Magic vs. Adramelk and Velius
Oh boy FFT speed hype.  The Fear skillset they never use in-game doesn't have chargetimes and while Adramelk can be compared to endgame speed averages, I think 8 Speed for Velius sounds about average - I know I've faced him with 7 Speed Ramza before and not been notably underlevel.  Anyway both of them being average speed is bad because they outrace any Entrance games.  One of them turns Jane into a statue, the other turns Rosa into a statue.  One of them dies horribly to Entrance'd Shania.  The other lives to the next turn and makes Rydia a statue.  So...  did FFT petrify wear off with time?  Not sure it really matters even if it does, they have to leave the last Zodiac alive until it starts to wear off, and he can possibly re-inflict / confuse Shania / generally be annoying.  So most likely the team goes into the next fight with 3 stone statues...
Team Magic vs. Zog and Sara
Well, see above question.  Shania & Hilda don't have the resources to do this by themselves, they need to have Rosa's petrification wear off.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Petrify in FFT is permanent unless cured. Also, at floor 3, level 2 spells kick in (arguably, Tellah L3s as well, but I didn't even really consider that, just Palom and Tellah L2s). Also, regarding the Evrae/Defender fight, Chocobo damage scales up really poorly, it's probably only better than Porom offense by that point.

[dude789]

I'm not sure how much use the arc spells are since on this floor they'd be ST. As for Entrance hype, Shania's magic damage is probably underwhelming at this point. I recall physicals almost always being a better option than her non Tirawa skills.   

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

The Arc spells at least would allow Rosa to not get OHKOed hardcore by Defender. Hilda could even try to go Slim to outspeed Evrae and keep Rosa from them OHKOs, but then she gets no revival that way and -she- gets OHKOed instead. I think it's also worth mentioning Defender's delay counters could spell trouble too.

BY THE WAY: If Jane's healed, she's now 70%something average speed after Stone Gaze. Immunity-ignoring Slow that doesn't get cured by Esuna is cool like that and Gale only brings her back up to average speed to boot.

[dude789]

Are we assuming that Hilda can swap forms between fights? I was under the impression that she picked one for the floor and stuck with it.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I allow her to swap once per floor, at least. If she can't swap, things get uglier for Magic's team because he kinda needs Pink Bat to properly blitz Narshe Kefka.

[dude789]

If she wants to start in pink bat it hurts her mp for the later fights. Pink bat has around 60% of the max MP of the other forms.

[SnowFire]

Nobody expects the Zodiac Demon petrification blitz into long resource-intensive slog...

Actually waitaminute.  Shania has Mind Assault, and also Howling to not go crazy.  She might well solo the BoF1 bosses after all....  but yeesh that will be a loooong slog with lots of healing and waiting for doubles and careful SP management.  Shania might well miss a ring or something and randomly lose, which does get added to the chance of Sucker randomly derping up in fight 1 or the like.  Well, not going to vote a fail for Team MF, but think I'll maintain my abstain for now.  Kind of interesting, though, it is cool when it's at least theoretically plausible to limp into a fight with 2 people alive and still have an argument to win it.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Shania is kinda cool like that. I think she'd end up losing anyway because she makes so little leeway and Zog Char+Sara critical = the end, but tough shakes.

[Dhyerwolf]

Magic fails, other teams pass. Man, that floor got a nasty beefup (which it did need to a go degree, but the FF6/FF10 fights back to back are brutal.

[dude789]

Does Shania have Cure Plus or some other better than normal healing? SH3's basic cure spell is kind of bad and will probably be overwhelmed by Zog+Sara.

[Dark Holy Elf]

La Sirene starts with Cure Plus, yes, and her version is notably better than vanilla Cure Plus for some reason, so it's basically always full healing.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

It's not full at endgame! It's still 80%~ healing at that point, so loo loo loo, and that's when it's at its worst anyhow.

[DjinnAndTonic]

All teams pass.

Snowfire's Snow is fired up as a Sentinel.

Evrae gets no respect from me.

Tal and Random managed to make teams that don't explode on the first two floors.

[Magic Fanatic]

It should probably be noted that Narshe Kefka isn't immune to Stop, so Rydia casting Stop means that Narshe Kefka gets one turn before he's nullified, and I doubt Atma Weapon alone can kill Rydia before she gets a turn - she learns it at level 15.  After that, Atma weapon can be safely dealt with, and I can do something of a refill on Kefka (Shania uses Mind Assault/Cure Plus, Rydia keeps him locked down).

Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPjkHXKuKQM Gau's first action in this battle.  Further research revealed that Numblade inflicts Stop, so.

Also, Neph did give me a ruling when I was making the team - the Stellar Chart can be upgraded.  As such, Entrance only takes 1/8 of Hilda's MP instead of 1/4, letting her do more other things.  On top of this, it's entirely reasonable that Thunderbird has Arc Gale at this point, which is VERY potent, even on slower characters.

[Dark Holy Elf]

If there's any question about Shania's Arc spells, then yeah, she has any ones she wants at this point. You probably get around ~4500 soul over a non-sidequest SH3 playthrough (4140 needed to max the first three fusions, which is needed for the Tirawa quest), and although this is backended somewhat, it is not by as much as you might expect (as the soul gain from randoms doesn't change much over the game).

It costs 120 to unlock any given pair of Arc spells, so 360 to get all of them if that's Magic's goal. Very easy to do by F3... I typically pick up my first ones in Alcatraz, which, as you'll see shortly, is around halfway through F2 in my estimation. The real question is as to whether La Sirene itself is F3, really. Thinking on it I probably see it about midway through. Trying to break down the game into somewhat evenly-sized chunks...

F1: New York, Arkham, Grand Canyon
F2: Chicago, Alcatraz, Roswell
F3: Caribbean, Las Vegas
F4: Chichen Itza, Macchu Pichu
F5: Vilcabamba, Aito Cave
F6: Uyuni Salt Lake, Garland Residence
F7: Gate, maybe a sidequest or two
F8: Further sidequests
F9: Purgatory
F10: Victory lap

Or something like that. Note that you can definitely give La Sirene the 120 soul she needs for Arc Shield/Barrier the very instant she joins, though... you just have to have it saved up, and I see no reason Magic shouldn't be allowed to do that.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

It should probably be noted that Narshe Kefka isn't immune to Stop, so Rydia casting Stop means that Narshe Kefka gets one turn before he's nullified, and I doubt Atma Weapon alone can kill Rydia before she gets a turn

Atma Weapon actually only can't kill Rydia before she gets a turn if Jane Suckers him and hits, and if she does that, Kefka kills her instead. Atma's physical is OHKO to average durability-level damage. Rydia isn't far from being OHKOed by average physical -damage-.