Parties & Rivals 2 - Round 1

[SnowFire]

...now with far fewer competitors from a Final Fantasy game.  We get to see which Frontier is Frontierier and also determine if a cheerful young dancer, emo swordsman, and old dude can capture themselves some Pokemon.  For our bonus match we invoke the power of time travel to watch as Ceodore attempts to prove himself against the foe his parents (temporarily) vanquished.  Well against one version of said foe, at least.

Rules are the same as usual.  In-game rules should be enforced as far as is sane on PC sets (so party size limitations count for Mana Khemia 2 / Pokemon), combination techs are legal, etc.  Boss HP is unscaled, and bosses generally get any extra "parts" (e.g. Melfice), although as usual any interp details are up to you the voter.
-

Godlike
Orphan (Final Fantasy 13) vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4)
Haken Browning, Kaguya Nanbu, KOS-MOS, Xiaomu (SRWOG:Endless Frontier) vs. Asellus, WhiteRose, Mesarthim, Meilin, Riki (Saga Frontier)
Belial (Wild Arms 4) vs. Chris, Geddoe, Hugo, Sasarai, Luc, Emily (Suikoden 3)
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) vs. Razeluxe Meitzen, Etward Dysler, Lilianne Valendorf, Puniyo, Yun (Mana Khemia 2)

Heavy
White Mage, Summoner, Ninja, Samurai (Final Fantasy 5) vs. Yuri, Kurando, Joachim, and Anastasia (Shadow Hearts 2)
Ghaleon (Lunar:SSSC) vs. Myria (Breath of Fire 3)
The Dark One (Arc the Lad 2) vs. Kornell 3 + Violetta 1 (Grandia 3)
Yuri, Karol, Rita, Estelle (Tales of Vesperia) vs. Ramza, Agrias, Mustadio, Orlandu, Meliadoul (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Middle
Ness, Paula, Jeff, Poo (Earthbound) vs. Loki (Valkyrie Profile)
Apocryapha (Radiant Historia) vs. Dorothy, Strawman, Lion and Tin Man (Wizard of Oz)
Cthulhu, Umi, Dacre, October (Cthulhu Saves The World) vs. Exor (Super Mario RPG)
Melfice (Grandia 2) vs. Stocke, Aht, Eruca (Radiant Historia)

Light
Zed, Jane, Emma (WA:ACF) vs. Edna (Shadow Hearts 3)
Luca Blight (Suikoden 2) vs. Zalera (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Serge, Glenn, Irenes (Chrono Cross) vs. Marcello (Dragon Quest 8)
Pikachu, Blastoise, Charizard, Venusaur, Snorlax, Lapras (Pokemon) vs. Peppita, Albel, Adray (Star Ocean 3)

Bonus match
Ceodore, Ursula, Edge, Palom, Edward (Final Fantasy 4: The After Years) vs. Zeromus (Final Fantasy 4 DS)

[SnowFire]

Orphan (Final Fantasy 13) vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4)
Uhhhh no vote but this is an uphill climb for Orphan.  The good news is that Orphan's stat bust game unquestionably can work against Persona bosses, and all Orphan's attacks are ITE so Sukukaja / Masakunda is worthless.  The bad news is Ameno gets Bewildering Fog &, at very low health, Dekunda to blow said stat buffs away, leaving Orphan's damage looking kind of sad.  Orphan is really relying on their absurd durability here to have a chance at this one.
Belial (Wild Arms 4) vs. Chris, Geddoe, Hugo, Sasarai, Luc, Emily (Suikoden 3)
Well since Belial was nommed for Godlike, I assume that 4D Pocket spam was baked into the equation, but even giving Belial a lot of leeway to spam 4D in a way she doesn't in-game, I think this is too many bodies to deal with before she drops.

Heavy
White Mage, Summoner, Ninja, Samurai (Final Fantasy 5) vs. Yuri, Kurando, Joachim, and Anastasia (Shadow Hearts 2)
Okay, Ninja & Samurai kill Yuri.  Kurando goes Tsukiyomi and full-revives Yuri.  Joachim...  this is a coinflip speedoff, but looks like he's mildly faster than WM / Summoner (97% / 95% / 93% respectively), so he Instant Deaths WM.  Anastasia HP-1s Summoner.  Summoner's status cheese game is largely immuned (all of Stone/ Paralysis=Stop/Instant-Death) so she can go either Golem or Carbuncle... or Phoenix too I guess, but that's asking for trouble since WM won't revive with enough HP.  Let's say Golem (Carbuncle is met with an Anastaisa tap).  Ninja & Sam kill Yuri again, but Kurando is gaining turns even as Tsukiyomi with the AGI boost and just revives him again.  Joachim or Anastaisa use some magic to off Summoner, and it's all downhill from there.  I think.

Note that if WM beats Joachim to the punch it's totally possible this fight ends up entirely different!  EDIT: And apparently Joachim's ID rate is shoddy, so if Joachim's ID misses team SH2 kind of goes down in flames.  Vote changed.

Middle
Melfice (Grandia 2) vs. Stocke, Aht, Eruca (Radiant Historia)
I'd probably see traps as nailing all of Melfice's parts, similar to pushing multiple enemies into a trap at once.  Anyway, the Regenerator apparently can be Slept according to Tide, so Aht could open with Sleep Trap, except the Regenerator doesn't really matter (no Silence because of Sky Drops).  Hilariously enough against the with-books average Demon Horde Slash somehow doesn't OHKO defense-twinked Eruca, so when does the sword's turn come?  According to Tide's LLG ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu1AezHaopE&list=PL79FCE6DEE444BBF2&index=7&feature=plpp_video ), the sword's turn 1 is really slow, actually (Melfice & Regenerator are fast).  So...   DHS-> Sword to kill Eruca doesn't work (Eruca would throw up her block-2-attacks spell).  Hmm.  Okay, so Melfice opens with Wailing Soul Slash instead to kill Eruca, Regenerator drops Speedy, Aht Volt Star Trap, Stocke Push/Left/Right Assault, Sword hits Aht.  Eruca is dead, Melfice & his parts are under assault.   However...  another WSS should kill Aht.  Let's say Stocke can still knock Melfice into the other trap set by Aht.  That's ~2 PCHP damage, which is probably enough to kill Melfice's parts (they're 11000 / 13000, so a bit more than half Melfice's HP, so roughly 2 PCHP for parts -> 3.5 PCHP for Melfice).  But even if the Sword does die, Melfice got at least one speedy in, and despite Melfice failing magnificently at getting damage in on Stocke, I think Stocke is revive-locked too long on Aht to get a Mana Break or anything.  So tough luck.

Light
Luca Blight (Suikoden 2) vs. Zalera (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Yeaaaaaaaaah.
Serge, Glenn, Irenes (Chrono Cross) vs. Marcello (Dragon Quest 8)
One shot of healing (maybe 2 shots of healing?) is really not going to cut it here unless X-Strike is insane on damage or something.

[Magic Fanatic]

Godlike
Belial (Wild Arms 4) vs. Chris, Geddoe, Hugo, Sasarai, Luc, Emily (Suikoden 3) - Despite Belial's speed, too much damage too fast.

Heavy
White Mage, Summoner, Ninja, Samurai (Final Fantasy 5) vs. Yuri, Kurando, Joachim, and Anastasia (Shadow Hearts 2) - SH2 can open with too many threats all at the same time.  FF5 can't keep up, and if Anastasia gets a turn, she can cast Entrance on Yuri.  Yuri then blows everyone up.

Middle
Ness, Paula, Jeff, Poo (Earthbound) vs. Loki (Valkyrie Profile) - I enforce the rolling HP meters, and Loki can't kill anyone in time before Ness can get off a Life-up Ω to save everyone's asses, and then Paula follows up with PSI Shield Ω.  Loki goes sadface after that and explodes.

Light
Zed, Jane, Emma (WA:ACF) vs. Edna (Shadow Hearts 3) - I...  Want to say that Jane Suckers Edna, Zed uses Secret Sword a bunch, and Emma Great Boosters Zed to help with the damage and Renovation on Jane to help keep her alive, until it's time for a Great Booster -> Full Power Star Blast.  Edna may screw this up with Mental Break being MT and eating through Emma's already small MP pool, but...  She may die first?  I'm not sure. EDIT: Yeah, forgot about the quick recharge on stuff Edna has.  Too much for the team to try to drive through.
Luca Blight (Suikoden 2) vs. Zalera (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Serge, Glenn, Irenes (Chrono Cross) vs. Marcello (Dragon Quest 8)
Pikachu, Blastoise, Charizard, Venusaur, Snorlax, Lapras (Pokemon) vs. Peppita, Albel, Adray (Star Ocean 3) - It's basically 1 vs. 3 six times over.  Pokemon does not like this format.

[Cmdr_King]

Godlike
Orphan (Final Fantasy 13) vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4)- Will wait for ... someone, anyway.
Haken Browning, Kaguya Nanbu, KOS-MOS, Xiaomu (SRWOG:Endless Frontier) vs. Asellus, WhiteRose, Mesarthim, Meilin, Riki (Saga Frontier)- No vote.
Belial (Wild Arms 4) vs. Chris, Geddoe, Hugo, Sasarai, Luc, Emily (Suikoden 3)-  Distortion is a lost cause here; Geddoe, Sasarai, and Luc all have true MT, and Hellfire's AoE is so extensive it's quite reasonable to suppose Hugo can get in on that too.  Using it lets her block a round of attacks from Hugo/Emily, but that leaves her able to kill only one mage, and regardless of who the remaining two will kill the distortion and leave her with basically the same options the next round.
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) vs. Razeluxe Meitzen, Etward Dysler, Lilianne Valendorf, Puniyo, Yun (Mana Khemia 2)- Jenna 2.  If at any time Jenna kills Puniyo, she wins the battle because she's got the raw HP to live through some Raze/Et offense (especially since they have to take out her support before they can even deal damage) and only Puniyo on this team has any sort of healing/revival.

Heavy
White Mage, Summoner, Ninja, Samurai (Final Fantasy 5) vs. Yuri, Kurando, Joachim, and Anastasia (Shadow Hearts 2)
Ghaleon (Lunar:SSSC) vs. Myria (Breath of Fire 3)- Ahh, a classic battle.  Myria can't really OHKO a Chaos Shield, so that limits her speed advantage sharply.  She'd have to triple turn to mount serious offense, and even then Ghaleon has a slight edge in durability and damage (I mean, assuming he's doing Chaos Shield/Whatever each round) if memory serves.
The Dark One (Arc the Lad 2) vs. Kornell 3 + Violetta 1 (Grandia 3)- No vote.
Yuri, Karol, Rita, Estelle (Tales of Vesperia) vs. Ramza, Agrias, Mustadio, Orlandu, Meliadoul (Final Fantasy Tactics)- Orlandu breaks Yuri's weapon as the first action of the battle.  It's all downhill form there for Brave Vesperia.

Middle
Ness, Paula, Jeff, Poo (Earthbound) vs. Loki (Valkyrie Profile)- No vote.
Apocryapha (Radiant Historia) vs. Dorothy, Strawman, Lion and Tin Man (Wizard of Oz)- I think at least.  Apocrypha is more about status than anything else, Oz cast can manipulate who's exposed to it.
Cthulhu, Umi, Dacre, October (Cthulhu Saves The World) vs. Exor (Super Mario RPG)
Melfice (Grandia 2) vs. Stocke, Aht, Eruca (Radiant Historia)- In this format I'd definitely assume turn swapping.  Mmm.  Trouble is, RH team can't use it.  Demon Hoard Slash should OHKO Euruca, and any turn swapping would give Melfice two turns in a row, letting him kill Aht too.  Well, hm.  Revive Euruca, swap to her turn, invincibility.  That lasts two hits, and Melfice has sword and regenerator here... yeah.  They just can't get enough turns in a row to really build momentum, and that's their whole game.

Light
Zed, Jane, Emma (WA:ACF) vs. Edna (Shadow Hearts 3)
Luca Blight (Suikoden 2) vs. Zalera (Final Fantasy Tactics)- Well that's straightforward.
Serge, Glenn, Irenes (Chrono Cross) vs. Marcello (Dragon Quest 8)- Kneejerk.  Serge pumps out OHKO damage, and can repeat that trick in a prolonged fight which I don't think Marcello can stop.  Glenn's no slouch and actually resists Marcello's good (read: mt) damage too.
Pikachu, Blastoise, Charizard, Venusaur, Snorlax, Lapras (Pokemon) vs. Peppita, Albel, Adray (Star Ocean 3)- I'm not sure how the pokemon team can realistically beat ANY other team.  Bosses sure but teams?  Maybe run them out of resources I guess, but not this team.

Bonus match
Ceodore, Ursula, Edge, Palom, Edward (Final Fantasy 4: The After Years) vs. Zeromus (Final Fantasy 4 DS)

[Clear Tranquil]

Awaiting Yoshis~

Going to assume offhand though the Pokes are status baits so Peppita Panic Dances the group of them right off for chaos lock. Panic Dance is ridiculous vs those with no status resistance - 

<fruitbean>MGSB's status info (SA = status resistance) -

" Not very precise, just estimations from using the attacks a bunch of times against 16 SA Lesser Devils. % are rated on a per hit basis, not the entire move.
<fruitbean> Dimension Door- 20% paralysis
<fruitbean> Aiming Device- 60% chaos
<fruitbean> Magnetic Field- 30% paralysis
<fruitbean> Energy Burst- 10% paralysis
<fruitbean> Poison Cloud- 84% poison
<fruitbean> Ice Daggers- 30% freeze
<fruitbean> Albel's short major- 60% chaos
<fruitbean> Aura Wall- 30% chaos
<fruitbean> Peppita's counter X and counter O- 50% chaos
<fruitbean> Frozen Daggers- 20% freeze
<fruitbean> Panic Dance- 84% chaos (I'm guessing, like Healing and Magical Dance, at L10 it has a total of 38 "ticks", or chances, of inflicting chaos)
<fruitbean> Land Mines- 10% chaos
<fruitbean> Whirling Heat- 20% chaos
<fruitbean> Titan Fist- 50% chaos, 10% paralysis, 1-2% petrification"

The way Panic Dance works is Peppita dances to generate ever expanding waves/rings of chaos flowing outward from her and she can chain into another one at the end and so on to keep a chaos lock going. Like Power Dance the effect starts going in effect straight away and has a sort of invisible range right to the very outer range of the circle basically having an outer edge just outside the trace design of the dance where the effect still works. So in other words the AoE/crowd control is pretty ridiculous at least as far as SO3 goes >_> Anyway SO3 chaos it's five ticks of enemy can't act (unless for ARPGs they were already in the middle of a move then they get to finish it but can't act after <_<) and enemy takes HP/MP damage % in the process.  (it also ignores damage caps though I don't think that's relevent here) However pure damage moves have a chance of knocking the target out of chaos (not sure about spells though) so Albel and Adray probably just want to contribute to the status game with Aura Wall and Ice Needles/Deep Freeze or Titan Fist but I dunno.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Godlike

Haken Browning, Kaguya Nanbu, KOS-MOS, Xiaomu (SRWOG:Endless Frontier) vs. Asellus, WhiteRose, Mesarthim, Meilin, Riki (Saga Frontier) - Mesarthim goes first, StasisRunes Haken and the battle goes downhill fast. Asellus+White Rose 100% MT ID comboing goes before everybody left in this party and the end, unless you can argue me Haken somehow outlasts through Snipe spam a full SaGa party with this much revival and cheese (answer: you can't). Hilariously, if I actually decided for Suzuka in this, the fight might've gone differently with ENCHAIN HYPE. So strange. -Regardless-, there are multiple ways the SaGa entourage can win this fight (many of them including Riki's rings: just the status immunity ring utterly mangles the Snipe => Glare strategy the EF party needs to win), but this one is elegantly foolproof. EDIT: Ahahaha, rings are initiative, the EF party would be screwed regardless forever.
Belial (Wild Arms 4) vs. Chris, Geddoe, Hugo, Sasarai, Luc, Emily (Suikoden 3) - Belial's 2.88x PC HP unscaled, her shield is 1.53x PC HP (!!!) unscaled -before- the damage halving - i.e. it takes hits better than Belial herself when not facing MT. Meanwhile, only Sasarai, Luc and Geddoe can break through it via MT. -However, she needs to open with Distortion to avoid Emily 3HKOing her ass. So, Distortion, Emily rams into Distortion, 4D Pocket Geddoe, Hugo and Chris ram into Distortion. At this point, the shield took about 2x PC HP worth of damage and can still take 1x PC HP more and nobody damaged Beli yet. If Sasarai Earthquakes instead of LoE, he gets to deal some damage to both shield and Belial, but this is barely enough to take the shield out and she's about to get another turn, with which she can 4D Luc... actually, I'm not sure, she's liable to be overwhelmed anyway because there are -three- PCs with nasty MT and any turn she spends unshielded means she gets brutally bumrushed. If 4D Pocket didn't run out, maybe I'd see her winning. Eh.
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) vs. Razeluxe Meitzen, Etward Dysler, Lilianne Valendorf, Puniyo, Yun (Mana Khemia 2) - I dunno. Every trick Jenna can pull feels like it gets answered by "I'm Puniyo and I MT heal+revive+statusheal on command" swap-in-out cheese. Past that, the team has enough elemental variety to mostly deal with Jenna's orbs and can cheese all her other options while having tons of offense. EDIT: Oh dear, Glaceration has an argument to break past Jenna's shield immunity too, bypassing the orbs. That's just weird, for all that it turns Lily into a walking kick me sign.

Heavy
White Mage, Summoner, Ninja, Samurai (Final Fantasy 5) vs. Yuri, Kurando, Joachim, and Anastasia (Shadow Hearts 2) - Samurai+Ninja get Yuri killed before he gets a turn and then it's all downhill for the SH team. Without Yuri, they can't even outpace the opening offense dealt by Gil Toss...
Ghaleon (Lunar:SSSC) vs. Myria (Breath of Fire 3) - I want to say that the speed difference at least cancels out the damage edge Ghaleon has... but his durability edge -is- significant. Chaos Shield's still useless, at least, because lololol sanctuary, so Ghal ain't even touching that. But I don't think Myria3 can -quite- handle the roughly 4x extra PC HP Ghaleon likely has here, even though it's close. If she actually managed a 3-1 split, I'd probably vote her way, but don't think she's -quite- that good, low 2HKO isn't what you want against Ghaleon unless you're running off above 2x average speed.
The Dark One (Arc the Lad 2) vs. Kornell 3 + Violetta 1 (Grandia 3) - You more or less don't outslug the Dark One in a fair, straight slugfest in this setting. He probably has multiple times the HP of both these guys combined -before- any damage reduction from defenses comes to play.

Middle

Ness, Paula, Jeff, Poo (Earthbound) vs. Loki (Valkyrie Profile) - Loki instantly OHKOs Paula with unreflectable magic or physicals that are MT - by the way, this easily 2HKOs everybody but Ness. If you see average HP as below 45k in VP, he also OHKOs Jeff, but Jeff is worthless anyway. So, this is basically Ness and Poo vs. MT damage of both flavors they can't entirely wall and the minute Poo dies Ness is eating an Indiscriminate OHKO. Not to mention that, without Paula, they have zilch chance of outslugging Loki ever: assuming a 40k damage average against Loki (and that may sound pretty goddamn high for a lot of people), he has 4x PC HP roughly. If Ness and Poo -both- devote all their PP to offense, they manage... 3.2x PC HP, and their physicals are egregious failure against everything not named Axem Green, let alone Loki. If they can't outslug him even without spending a penny on healing (which is asking for immediate death), I suspect that even allowing shit like rolling meters, they run out of resources before even making any appreciable leeway. The only person who can actually devote offense (and bad offense at that. People, Paula freaking -4HKOs- average with Freeze Omega) against Loki gets overkilled by everything he does and everybody else is utterly tied up. EDIT: PAULA ENDS UP ON THE WRONG SIDE OF AVERAGE SPEED WHAT THE FLYING FUCK. Paula keeps finding new ways to fail harder than Kevin Winnicot in a tutu.
Apocrypha (Radiant Historia) vs. Dorothy, Strawman, Lion and Tin Man (Wizard of Oz) - You know what? If I allow Mirror Skin to block Apocrypha's status spells, Dorothy isn't that far from soloing Apocrypha as is -unscaled-. In doubt, kneejerking against Apocrypha who can cry me a river over being amazingly inflated in the DL setting feels okay enough. Since he can't OHKO Dorothy with anything to me -either-...
Cthulhu, Umi, Dacre, October (Cthulhu Saves The World) vs. Exor (Super Mario RPG) - EDIT: Right, Exor is a lategame SMRPG boss and MT match-winning status looooooooooooool.
Melfice (Grandia 2) vs. Stocke, Aht, Eruca (Radiant Historia) - Holy crap Melfice gets parts and mangles Aht and Eruca so bad.

Light

Zed, Jane, Emma (WA:ACF) vs. Edna (Shadow Hearts 3) - Follow Me+Great Booster = not enough, Zed is the only one dealing damage here. Edna certainly one-rounds Emma and Zed is likely to run out of really safe damage before he can kill Eddie.
Luca Blight (Suikoden 2) vs. Zalera (Final Fantasy Tactics) - EDIT: nvm
Serge, Glenn, Irenes (Chrono Cross) vs. Marcello (Dragon Quest 8) - um no.
Pikachu, Blastoise, Charizard, Venusaur, Snorlax, Lapras (Pokemon) vs. Peppita, Albel, Adray (Star Ocean 3) - EDIT: the outnumbering actually goes the other way. Nevermind, Poké in this setting can't win against teams ever unless they're made of BoF1 scrubs.

[dude789]

Godlike
Orphan (Final Fantasy 13) vs. Ameno-sagiri (Persona 4)
Belial (Wild Arms 4) vs. Chris, Geddoe, Hugo, Sasarai, Luc, Emily (Suikoden 3)

Heavy
White Mage, Summoner, Ninja, Samurai (Final Fantasy 5) vs. Yuri, Kurando, Joachim, and Anastasia (Shadow Hearts 2)
Ghaleon (Lunar:SSSC) vs. Myria (Breath of Fire 3)
The Dark One (Arc the Lad 2) vs. Kornell 3 + Violetta 1 (Grandia 3) To give an idea of how stupidly durable TDO is, I did a quick calculation to see how much damage TDO takes before he kills off one of the two. It takes him 8 turns to off Kornell and in this time using their best attacks, Kornell and Violetta can deal over 11 PCHP. Which TDO then halves with his defenses. Unscaled TDO has 24 PCHP.
Yuri, Karol, Rita, Estelle (Tales of Vesperia) vs. Ramza, Agrias, Mustadio, Orlandu, Meliadoul (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Middle
Ness, Paula, Jeff, Poo (Earthbound) vs. Loki (Valkyrie Profile)
Cthulhu, Umi, Dacre, October (Cthulhu Saves The World) vs. Exor (Super Mario RPG)

Light
Zed, Jane, Emma (WA:ACF) vs. Edna (Shadow Hearts 3)
Luca Blight (Suikoden 2) vs. Zalera (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Serge, Glenn, Irenes (Chrono Cross) vs. Marcello (Dragon Quest 8)
Pikachu, Blastoise, Charizard, Venusaur, Snorlax, Lapras (Pokemon) vs. Peppita, Albel, Adray (Star Ocean 3)

Bonus match
Ceodore, Ursula, Edge, Palom, Edward (Final Fantasy 4: The After Years) vs. Zeromus (Final Fantasy 4 DS)

[Clear Tranquil]

Umm ... Blastoise, Snorlax and Lapras are all slower than Venusaur >_> Also according to the stat topic Light Screen halfs magic damage which ... I'm not sure how it's helping <_<

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Venusaur is the most dangerous team member because Sleep utterly owns any PC he decides to target. Also, I couldn't remember which of Light Screen/Reflect halved physicals, and just noticed Pika doesn't even have the latter. >_> That's my bad (and means Pika is utterly useless). Although argh, Charizard is probably faster than Albel (120% average speed on Char), Fire Spin ties up Albel for at least one turn and frees everybody else to bumrush peeps (probably Adray, since he's the reviver). With 2/3s of SO3 team inactive before they even move, they're just complete bait. If they leave Albel be, it's probably even easier, his status isn't turn one. Sheesh.

[SnowFire]

Well, except Pokemon party size limits are enforced...  that's why CK is boggling about how Pokemon can win anywhere.  (Incidentally, it was explicitly double battle rules last time, but Yoshiken indicated it should be more single battle style this time I believe.  So.)

Also, 8x PCHP unscaled sounds a bit much for Loki.  IIRC he's 1 PCHP but with good defense, which would imply he's 4 PCHP...  granted, if the max magical offense Ness & Poo can emit is <4 PCHP ignoring healing, that's still pretty grim for Team EB.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Oh, the party sizes are enforced? That changes things, but then Pokémon are utterly -useless- in this setting and shouldn't ever be used (not to mention that fuck, they're forced to single PCs while the other side gets full party benefits? Yeah, forget that ). If that's the case, a vote change is in order, they get overwhelmed forever by the SO3 PCs.

EDIT: Also, 1x PC HP for Loki would require, under my scaling (which is basically the harshest I know, since it divides amount of hits taken by ten)... an average damage of 40k per PC. I think you reach or outdo this only by scaling him against a Dinosaur Lawfer+best weapon Arngrim+Apocalypse mage+GR Lenneth -post-Might Reinforce party and ignoring any other PCs ever. Iunno, I thought the 50k damage average was high as fuck as it stood anyway. I'm perfectly fine with scaling Loki against the obscure missable endgame weapons and shit, but I'd consider -all- the PCs rather than just the one optimal party, at least in a game where there are so many high-tier choices to go for (I used to think otherwise, too! But yeah).

EDIT2: I just noticed I was horrendously off on my math. Adjusted accordingly. Also, for the record, I'd see Loki as closer to 1.5x PC HP, which leads to a 6x PC HP figure! Welp.

EDIT #I'mGrefter: The fundamental problem being how Loki pretty much brutalizes half the party any time he wants. The EB team is way too lopsided in durability to survive blitzes properly. Everybody but Ness is below average at taking hits, Paula and Jeff downright sucking at it: Jeff's 77% PC HP and Paula is a mindboggling 58% PC HP, and EB defense stats are utterly irrelevant across the board. Add up Ness being on the wrong side of average for speed and Poo's resources being a pile of crap and you have a pretty good recipe for getting the revivers locked into a loop without ever making any headway.

[Nephrite]

I'd let the Pokemon team field as many Pokemon as there are opponents, just like in-game.

[Random Consonant]

Godlike
Haken Browning, Kaguya Nanbu, KOS-MOS, Xiaomu (SRWOG:Endless Frontier) vs. Asellus, WhiteRose, Mesarthim, Meilin, Riki (Saga Frontier) - While Xiaomu does have that MT status immunity spirit command, she's also below average speed.  Workin' out so well there, that.

Middle
Ness, Paula, Jeff, Poo (Earthbound) vs. Loki (Valkyrie Profile) - Holy crap the issues here
Apocryapha (Radiant Historia) vs. Dorothy, Strawman, Lion and Tin Man (Wizard of Oz) - aaaaaaa
Cthulhu, Umi, Dacre, October (Cthulhu Saves The World) vs. Exor (Super Mario RPG) - Probably. edit: right, MT match winning status
Melfice (Grandia 2) vs. Stocke, Aht, Eruca (Radiant Historia) - Yikes.

Light
Luca Blight (Suikoden 2) vs. Zalera (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Not sure if Slow does enough and FFT Blind doing anything here would require Zalera to actually have evasion (he doesn't).  That said, I don't really care to look up durability on these two right now.  Edit: Or I could just go with my initial reaction.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Oh right, Zalera has zero evade. Probably enough to make Zalera lose, unless you see CONFUSE hitting Luca.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Godlike
Haken Browning, Kaguya Nanbu, KOS-MOS, Xiaomu (SRWOG:Endless Frontier) vs. Asellus, WhiteRose, Mesarthim, Meilin, Riki (Saga Frontier): Sure, StasisRune the only fast opponent then unleash Megawindblasts.
Belial (Wild Arms 4) vs. Chris, Geddoe, Hugo, Sasarai, Luc, Emily (Suikoden 3): I'll join the prevailing opinion here.
Jenna Angel (Digital Devil Saga) vs. Razeluxe Meitzen, Etward Dysler, Lilianne Valendorf, Puniyo, Yun (Mana Khemia 2): Blah MK2 headaches.

Heavy
White Mage, Summoner, Ninja, Samurai (Final Fantasy 5) vs. Yuri, Kurando, Joachim, and Anastasia (Shadow Hearts 2): So Ninja/Samurai kill Yuri and 2HKO everyone else. Kurando revives Yuri as noted... Summoner uses Bahamut, everyone dies except Yuri, White Mage hits the dark-innate Yuri with Holy, um yeah ow. Snowfire's analysis has one fatal flaw: Joachim's ID isn't turn 1.
Ghaleon (Lunar:SSSC) vs. Myria (Breath of Fire 3): Myria has roughly constant doubles, so they trade single attacks. I don't see their durability as that different so Myria getting in the first two attacks should probably tilt things?

Middle
Apocryapha (Radiant Historia) vs. Dorothy, Strawman, Lion and Tin Man (Wizard of Oz): Eh sure, Apocrypha's not that great.
Cthulhu, Umi, Dacre, October (Cthulhu Saves The World) vs. Exor (Super Mario RPG): I think the kneejerk votes are underrating Exor somewhat. Neosquid has average speed and 100% MT sleep which is pretty much game. Umi MUST Siren's Call this but it only buys one turn, and Exor's eyes promptly statuses out one with silence and OHKOs another with Dark Star (Dacre obviously will be one). Even if Cthulhu x2 + Umi can then blitz Neosquid the OHKOs/status continues and they haven't even started on the eyes or Exor's main body yet.
Melfice (Grandia 2) vs. Stocke, Aht, Eruca (Radiant Historia): Can't push what you can't hit, so yeah, this is problematic. Melfice offs Eruca and largely trolls (Stocke's res doesn't give her enough HP to not die to MT) from there with extra attacks and silence (or if the team blocks that, their lower stats make this even harder).

Light
Zed, Jane, Emma (WA:ACF) vs. Edna (Shadow Hearts 3): Edna offs Emma immediately (though Follow Me lets her get off a Great Booster) and probably just outslugs from there. Zed's damage being limited against ~5PCHP or so is bad.
Luca Blight (Suikoden 2) vs. Zalera (Final Fantasy Tactics): Zalera's only like 2.5-3PCHP whereas Luca is more even before damage halving, AND has more damage.
Serge, Glenn, Irenes (Chrono Cross) vs. Marcello (Dragon Quest 8): Not thinking too hard about Chrono Cross.
Pikachu, Blastoise, Charizard, Venusaur, Snorlax, Lapras (Pokemon) vs. Peppita, Albel, Adray (Star Ocean 3): Well if the pokemon team is one at a time they're pretty bad. Both Venusaur/Charizard and the SO3ers rely on shaky status which will miss rather than sweep teams so this is a weird fight.

Bonus match
Ceodore, Ursula, Edge, Palom, Edward (Final Fantasy 4: The After Years) vs. Zeromus (Final Fantasy 4 DS): Congratulations Snowfire, you may have concocted a match that only Super can vote on. (now someone will prove me wrong, my stalk fu is weak)

[superaielman]

I haven't played FF4DS.

[Magic Fanatic]

Light
Zed, Jane, Emma (WA:ACF) vs. Edna (Shadow Hearts 3): Edna offs Emma immediately (though Follow Me lets her get off a Great Booster) and probably just outslugs from there. Zed's damage being limited against ~5PCHP or so is bad.

Jane using Sucker means that Edna has to go after her first instead of Emma, letting Emma do more than just one Great Booster.

[Yoshiken]

Can't vote on anything, but Pokemon can be in teams of 1-3 now, which means they can at least tie for numbers. That said, status is and always has been the bane of Pokemon in the DL, so it's probably a losing match anyways.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Light
Zed, Jane, Emma (WA:ACF) vs. Edna (Shadow Hearts 3): Edna offs Emma immediately (though Follow Me lets her get off a Great Booster) and probably just outslugs from there. Zed's damage being limited against ~5PCHP or so is bad.

Jane using Sucker means that Edna has to go after her first instead of Emma, letting Emma do more than just one Great Booster.

And Emma does what? Great Booster doesn't stack and everything else she does pretty much fails. Emma getting one or two turns makes utterly no difference because Edna can one-round her (or anyone in the team, really) seven different ways from Sunday. Not to mention a turn Jane Suckers is a turn she doesn't Follow Me.

[Clear Tranquil]

Thanks for the input Yoshi =)

* Clear Tranquil gnaws on Snow.

No worries.

Fun discussions are fun~

If they leave Albel be, it's probably even easier, his status isn't turn one.

Mmm it isn't? ;o I thought it was w/th Aura Wall chains/Berserk. Here vs no/low status res one use of Aura Wall is 30% x 26 hits. Or if you prefer to stick to end game/final dungeon rate 5% x 26, and then chains/Berserk are factored in after. Unless I'm missing something here. Mmm though if it isn't ... Albel isn't very good to say the least >_> He ... can hit Char's Fire weakness w/th Aura Wall's Earth weakness but I don't see a way of this helping offhand.

I'd let the Pokemon team field as many Pokemon as there are opponents, just like in-game.

I think this is fair. I should also throw out that Peppita can equip the Spike Shoes to hit ice/water weakness and for peeps who allow it Adray has that sword which immunes fire. Adray and Peppita can equip Elven Cloak to absorb wind/thunder/lightning damage which is why Pika is so bad in addition to the SO3 team all blocking paralysis, and Albel has the Elmental Leather for halving all elemental damage. Hmmm ... since Pika seems so redundant though the Pokes should probably send out Charizard, Venusaur and ... uhh Blastoise? I dunno~

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I already changed my vote assuming the Pokémon completely fail and holy crap solo vs. team is horrible.

[Yoshiken]

Fun thought on the Pokemon/SO3 fight: Can they prevent Lapras getting a turn? Because Perish Song is hilarious in this kind of format. (Given that it ignores Damp, which prevents OHKO moves, I'd see it as ID that ignores immunities, but takes 3 turns. Against a relatively weak status-reliant team, that's not that much of an issue, especially with a tank like Snorlax to come in afterwards.)

[SnowFire]

And Emma does what? Great Booster doesn't stack and everything else she does pretty much fails. Emma getting one or two turns makes utterly no difference because Edna can one-round her (or anyone in the team, really) seven different ways from Sunday. Not to mention a turn Jane Suckers is a turn she doesn't Follow Me.

So?  Follow Me does zilch anyway so who cares, it's a total red herring.  (Okay I know that you & Tal & some others let turn-based initiative generate more turns/doubles, but that effect is still somewhat subtle.)  I'm not sure why you think Edna one-rounds everyone so easily unless there's some hidden Chain effect I'm missing - off a laggy double, she can emit .88 PCHP according to the stat topic, which barely kills Jane (.85 PCHP).  Her first turn is allegedly slower than Frank as well, so there's an argument she might be slower than Emma (on turn 1).

Anyway, as best I can tell, Jane constantly spams Sucker.  Let's say Edna goes first.  She attacks Jane, but you (or someone else?) said that ACF evade is actually worth hype and can evade anything, so she misses most of the time.  When she hits, sure, she can double-> kill.  If she misses, Emma tosses a Great Booster onto Jane, and now Jane doesn't die to a single Double and is 3HKOed.  Same if Emma goes before Edna.  After that, Emma can heal off single taps to Jane, and can afford to Great Booster Zed whenever Edna misses.  I think Edna requires too many interp calls here unless I'm missing something - she needs to hustle out Emma turn 1, and she needs to hit through 63% evasion on turn 1.  Backup plan is something like get a natural double due to the SH3 boss speed-up against Emma in time, hit Jane, then hit Jane->Double which isn't TOO common and requires passing 2 evasion checks.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Doubles have a chain effect attached (in fact, Chain status basically serves to apply the combo damage bonuses -without- usage of doubles/combos). They deal more damage than the numbers indicate, and Edna -always opens with magic- to bypass Jane's evasion, it only applies to physicals. Great Booster also blows as a durability buffer (25% boost to endgame ACF defenses oh boy), its relevance is mainly for its gross damage boost (the speed boost honestly isn't too relevant due to the horrible duration, and Emma -hardly- benefits from it at all. Woohoo, she goes from sensibly sub-Rudy to sensibly sub-Cecilia speed, I'm so impressed. Jane just rams a cap hardcore and Zed... well, he's now better than base Jane, but speed boost that lasts two turns and runs off -your- turn count, amazed forever). Not to mention that Edna's level -should- be higher than the average level of your party, hurting Sucker chances -as well-. Also wonder if Mental Break won't cause problems as well - Jane runs off MP, so does Emma, and Zed runs out of his skill charges well before killing Edna.

EDIT: Annnnnnnd Black Hole is AoE. Totally not giving Sucker any credit to any non-pure ST move.

[SnowFire]

Okay, fair enough.  It wasn't clear from the stat topic that it was "+25% crappy Defense stat" not "-25% damage."

That said, disagree re: Black Hole.  It being AoE doesn't mean Edna is off the hook, she has to target Jane (and MAYBE get somebody, not of her choice, stuck in the AoE as well.)  From chatting with Elf back when you nommed Edna, the AoE is pretty crappy and *might* get 2 people in a team of 4.