Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 90

[Nephrite]

"Again!? Hahah, very well. Let us see what you can do, then."


Link to the Dungeon Wiki!

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**Full Heals reset limit and other types of gauges when teams pass through them.
Team Snowfire | Fang, Vanille, Snow (Firefly), Lightning (Leader), Hope
Floor 6a: Underachievers
Team Snowfire vs. Largo, Sync, Legretta and Asch
Team Snowfire vs. Marsilio, Decus and Vesper
Team Snowfire vs. Dheginsea and FE7 Dragon
*Full Heal
Team Snowfire vs. Hugo (RH), Palomides (RH) and Viola (RH)
Team Snowfire vs. Piedras Blancas (XF) and Rupert (XF)


Team Tal | Celes (Speed?) Nel, Lyn, Yukiko, Cray
[Celes: Kirin(M), Siren(M), Stray(M), Shoat(M), Zone Seeker((M), Seraphim(M), Fenrir] Celes' Espers
Floor 5a: Ceaseheal
*On this floor, restoration of HP and MP are reduced to 10% (of whatever they normally were (ANY healing is 10%, even if it was overkill full healing)) and revival may not be used by the player team.
Team Tal vs. Ryu1, Guv (No Call Team) and Yuri2
*Full Heal
Team Tal vs. Yulie, Nina1, Yuna and Yukiko
Team Tal vs. Mua, Golem, Steelix and Cecil
*Full Heal
Team Tal vs. Albedo (XS2) and Albedo (XS1)
Team Tal vs. Queen Zeal


Team Random | Jerin, Eileen, Billy(Neo Speed), Kyra, Raynie
[Floor 4: Diff'rent Strokes]
Team Random vs. Hahn, Tia, Gadwin, Luna, Mareg and Shana
Team Random vs. Yumei, Badrach, Aelia, Lorenta and Grey
Team Random vs. Worker 8, FFT Cloud, Beowulf, Olan, Alma and Reis
Team Random vs. Albel, Adray, Roger Huxley, Noel and Chisato
Team Random vs. Palom, Porom, Tellah, Edward, Cid and Yang


Team Trips | Yuri1, Fogel, Cielo, Yukiko, Mime (SSL)
Floor 3b: Multiply
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team Trips vs. Billy, Bart, Rico and Elly
Team Trips vs. Raquel (WA4), Rudy (WA1), Brad (WA2), Gallows (WA3) and RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT (WAXF)
Team Trips vs. Alma, Kresnik, Yulie and Marle
Team Trips vs. Spherimorph, Dalton and Augst
Team Trips vs. Shadow Yukiko and Wendigo (FFX)


Firefly - The first attack of each enemy will be redirected at the bearer of this sealstone. Multitarget  moves are not affected. If a status is used that prevents the target from acting (Petrify, Sleep, etc.) then the effect is nullified until the status is removed.

Speed? - The effective speed of one character is set to 120% (1.2x) average speed. This number may be further increased by speed-increasind effects.

Neo Speed - The effective speed of one character is increased by 20% and increases 20% each time that character takes a turn, this effect caps at 200% base speed. The speed of this character cannot be increased in any way, nor can this character grant or be granted turns via any manner. If the character dies the speed is removed and cannot be regained.

Status Symbol Law - Team is fully status, debuff and ID immune, but has damage done to them increased by 1.1x and damage done by them decreased to .9x.

[SnowFire]

What's Celes's new Esper?  And shouldn't the F4 Espers be mastered?

[Nephrite]

Whoops. It's Fenrir.

[SnowFire]

**Full Heals reset limit and other types of gauges when teams pass through them.
Team Snowfire | Fang, Vanille, Snow (Firefly), Lightning (Leader), Hope
Floor 6a: Underachievers
Team Snowfire vs. Largo, Sync, Legretta and Asch
That's...  a lot of dudes, but they're all limit fighters, and think Snow can still tank his way through it while spamming Provoke to get them all interested in him for round 2.  Hope starts the buff train with Protect / Shell on Snow, Vanille (& Lightning if necessary) heal Snow, and Fang starts unloading the debuffs (and killing Asch because he doesn't have a limit).  They can't break the stall, especially once Snow has his buffs up, and Hope can buff everyone while Fang sets up the Deprotect / Deshell / Slow-if-seen-as-working, maybe toss an Imperil in there from Vanille, then unleash holy hell on them one at a time where they die in a surge of buffed offense against their debuffed defenses.
Team Snowfire vs. Marsilio, Decus and Vesper
Not really a super-expert on forgettable SO2 bosses, but spend round 1 killing the most dangerous one while they wail on Snow (probably Decus, I assume that's MT damage?), then outslug.
Team Snowfire vs. Dheginsea and FE7 Dragon
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.  Dheginsea in the Dungeon, eh.  I seriously don't respect Dheginsea's area-target effect since it is 100% avoidable in-game by characters who don't want to close with Dheggy since he doesn't move and instead spam Physic staffs or whatever from long range, and the damage trails off if you're at the edges of its range.  Anyway, both of these guys pack near-OHKO damage (if Ire doesn't trigger), but luckily Snow has like 2.10 effective PCHP as a Sentinel at the moment, so he won't die short of Ire triggering if he's kept healed.  Also by default I'd see Dheggy as having high Provoke-the-status resistance, except that in-game it is very very easy to control who he hits due to the whole not-moving thing, but this is usually thrown out for the Dungeon, so uh blargh.  He shouldn't be able to OHKO Lightning anyway without Ire triggering, so.

Anyway, let's assume high freedom of action for these two and also lots of Provoke resistance.  That means going on the offense.  Luckily, Bravery'd Fang is pretty terrifying, and Dragon at least goes down reasonably fast with throwing the right kind of offense at him.  Hope can Bravery up someone else for Turn 2, so even if Dheginsea can make a play for Lightning on turn 2, I have a solid argument for just plain one-rounding Dheginsea round 2 with Bravery'd Fang / Snow + all offense.  (And you do kind of need to one-round Dheginsea due to his crazy regen.)  So Dheginsea needs to have Ire kick in on round 2 to win, which is possible, but not real likely.  (Stat topic claims 36% chance of Ire.)

Note that if you take subtractive defense vs. multihit systems totally literally, then I am of course in big trouble as spreading damage out across 5 hits = FF13 / SO2 / SO3 / Tales / etc. characters never break high defense, but yeah I'm ignoring that for sanity's sake.

Anyway, if you have high Dheggy respect, then Lightning blows a summon, Gestalt mode should OHKO both of them even against high subtractive defense hype.  (Fight 1 is pretty stally anyway.)

*Full Heal
Team Snowfire vs. Hugo (RH), Palomides (RH) and Viola (RH)
First off, if they all go spam MT damage 24/7, I'm pretty sure medic spam should counter that strategy, despite Viola's speed, and I win.

That leaves status.   Uh....  RH paralysis doesn't really have an analogue in FF13, but 2 of 3 of its parts do (there's silence resistance in FF13 as well as Deprotect / Deshell resistance, and RH paralysis is basically silence + defense penalty + occasional turn skip).  No idea how you'd adjudicate that (allow FF13 characters to resist the silence part but not the rest?).  For extra fun Lightning & Snow will want to be wearing ID resistance anyway to not instantly die to Palomides...  hmm, unless Palomdies never gets a turn.  (He is slower than average.)

Palomides is hyped as around ~1.65 PCHP from the stat topic, which seems a little high to me, but I brutally double-Volt Star Trap'd him in-game, so.  I suspect it goes something like
Viola: MT 5HKO damage in Frigid Slash.
Hugo: MT 60% Paralysis.  Hugo hopes that he silences Hope & Vanille, so if you let them resist RH Paralysis / Paralysis partially, they're definitely walking in with Fog resistance.
Everyone else: UNLOAD on Palomides.  Non-paralyzed Ravagers get to smash his weakness with Lightning.  By definition, since this is 5/6 of the cast, this is around ~2.0 PCHP damage ST, buffed a bit thanks to the party Commando bonuses, and buffed more in that the Ravagers are hitting an elemental weakness (so more like ~2.4 PCHP.)  Even if somebody skips their turn due to Paralysis, I think that enough damage should be remaining to kill Palomides.  Alternatively, since this is C12 or so, go invest in Commando for Hope & Vanille to get awsum physical attack hype for them that can't be silenced, leaving 60% paralyze -> 25% turn skip the only threat.

If Palomdies dies on turn 1, then I don't need to bother with blocking ID after all and can stick in more psuedo-Paralysis resistance if they'd help.  Anyway, after that, Viola does some more cruddy MT damage, and Hugo unloads more Paralysis.  If Hugo manages to paralyze all 3 Medics, then I am in trouble, but if he didn't, then the Esuna -> healz game comes out and team RH loses.

Anyway, I'm going to give myself a pass, but this is an unstable battle, with good luck Palomides can survive round 1 or Hugo can block off my healing, both of which usually mean a loss.

Team Snowfire vs. Piedras Blancas (XF) and Rupert (XF)
lolno.  I don't let Rupert use Maximum Risk on turn 1, and even if you do it's not a OHKO, let alone a OHKO on Snow.  Kill Rupert - he's a good boss but not really for his durability - then mock 3HKOing terrain-limited Piedras.  (Devour is apparently a 50% HP limit, so don't hype Rupert getting eaten either.)

[Random Consonant]

Tenative pass for myself but it seems kind of swingy based on various respects, FFT fight seems like the most unpleasant off-hand but I'm not too worried about Beowulf/W8 accomplishing much turn 1 and everyone else there either has to cope with charge times or is Reis and thus incompetent, and once W8 is by himself I can more or less handle him even with a team of mages.  FF4 fight can status someone and get nuked, all other fights Confuse/blitzing should get me through at worst.

[Pyro]

Link to the Dungeon Wiki!

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**Full Heals reset limit and other types of gauges when teams pass through them.
Team Snowfire | Fang, Vanille, Snow (Firefly), Lightning (Leader), Hope
Floor 6a: Underachievers
Team Snowfire vs. Largo, Sync, Legretta and Asch: Handle the limit bosses one by one while healing. Revive as need be.
Team Snowfire vs. Marsilio, Decus and Vesper: Let Snow tank it up while going after Decus? Decus should go down easy enough, and buffs flow forth and fix everything else.
Team Snowfire vs. Dheginsea and FE7 Dragon: Dheggy spams MT, dragon attacks Snow... But the team has lots of healing and Thunder Damage does Dheggy in righteously. It'll be fine.
*Full Heal
Team Snowfire vs. Hugo (RH), Palomides (RH) and Viola (RH): Oh right Full Heals reset Limit gauges. Well, there are 3 Esuna'rs, and the ID isn't so much of a threat due to blockers so it should be okay. Viola can't really do anything while her support is alive!
Team Snowfire vs. Piedras Blancas (XF) and Rupert (XF): Kill Rupert and mock Piedras.


Team Tal | Celes (Speed?) Nel, Lyn, Yukiko, Cray
[Celes: Kirin(M), Siren(M), Stray(M), Shoat(M), Zone Seeker((M), Seraphim(M), Fenrir] Celes' Espers
Floor 5a: Ceaseheal
*On this floor, restoration of HP and MP are reduced to 10% (of whatever they normally were (ANY healing is 10%, even if it was overkill full healing)) and revival may not be used by the player team.
Team Tal vs. Ryu1, Guv (No Call Team) and Yuri2: Ryu1 transforms, becoming status immune. Celes statuses out Yuri2, Nel handles Guv... and the team should be able to handle Ryu.
*Full Heal
Team Tal vs. Yulie, Nina1, Yuna and Yukiko: Double the Yukiko for double the pleasure. Celes does MT status, chills?
Team Tal vs. Mua, Golem, Steelix and Cecil: Celes does some kind of MT status, chills?
*Full Heal
Team Tal vs. Albedo (XS2) and Albedo (XS1): There appear to be conflicting opinions on Albedo here. Abstain for now. Albedo II may be a bad fight to use on a CeaseHeal floor.
Team Tal vs. Queen Zeal: MP-1/HP-1... gets Blitzkreig'd.


Team Random | Jerin, Eileen, Billy(Neo Speed), Kyra, Raynie
[Floor 4: Diff'rent Strokes]
Team Random vs. Hahn, Tia, Gadwin, Luna, Mareg and Shana: Jerin/Eileen/Billy/Tia -> Tia can't stop the damage from Eileen and such. Team can prep for the next fight.
Team Random vs. Yumei, Badrach, Aelia, Lorenta and Grey: Should be enough MT to do this. Team can prep for the next fight.
Team Random vs. Worker 8, FFT Cloud, Beowulf, Olan, Alma and Reis: Not enough Earthquake for this. Don't think Raynie has the MP Regen on floor 4? Maybe I'm wrong, but it's small enough where it would have to be someone OTHER than Cloud/W8 left alive to regen enough MP, and it's so tiny that... I don't think that is happening.


Team Trips | Yuri1, Fogel, Cielo, Yukiko, Mime (SSL)
Floor 3b: Multiply
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team Trips vs. Billy, Bart, Rico and Elly: They all die before they see a turn.
Team Trips vs. Raquel (WA4), Rudy (WA1), Brad (WA2), Gallows (WA3) and RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT (WAXF): Yuri and Fogel kill everyone but Raquel. I don't think she'll generate the 25 FP needed to Intrude and win that way. So the team will be fine. Retaliate is a threat, I guess...
Team Trips vs. Alma, Kresnik, Yulie and Marle: They all die before they see a turn.
Team Trips vs. Spherimorph, Dalton and Augst: Not sure how Spherimorph factors into this. It's kind of a trick fight.
Team Trips vs. Shadow Yukiko and Wendigo (FFX): This is just mean. These two have way too much blitzing power on an MT floor. Whoah, wtf.

[dude789]

Snowfire and Tal fail, abstain on Random. Trips passes.

[SnowFire]

I'll just say in my defense that as a reminder, the 60% paralysis does *not* mean that 60% of the team loses their turns.  If you are hit by paralysis, you have a 25% chance to skip your turn, and on average 2-3 people will be hit by the paralysis (more like 2 given a certain amount of status disrespect).  A single turn skip isn't fatal to the "kill Palomides on turn 1" strat, although not letting FF13 characters resist the "silence" part and having the silence hit a Ravager can be problematic.  (It's a tough fight anyway, so fail votes are totally fair.)

Team Tal | Celes (Speed?) Nel, Lyn, Yukiko, Cray
[Celes: Kirin(M), Siren(M), Stray(M), Shoat(M), Zone Seeker((M), Seraphim(M), Fenrir] Celes' Espers
Floor 5a: Ceaseheal
*On this floor, restoration of HP and MP are reduced to 10% (of whatever they normally were (ANY healing is 10%, even if it was overkill full healing)) and revival may not be used by the player team.
Team Tal vs. Ryu1, Guv (No Call Team) and Yuri2
Imp Yuri, Lyn / Nel kill Guv.  Ryu can get off 1 Rudra blast on turn 2 before getting piled on by everyone, and there's a full heal afterward anyway.
*Full Heal
Team Tal vs. Yulie, Nina1, Yuna and Yukiko
Nina has initiative Wall protection to stop Yuna from getting Imp'd, but eh, feels like suicide offense to weaken them up for the next fight is the best shot.  And Ceaseheal screws this team over as well, so let the Holies fly.  Yulie never resolves Sacrifice due to Lyn exploding her, and Nel works on someone else - Ice Daggers vs. Evil Yukiko despite the auto-Sukukava evade?  Evil Yukiko will go resolve her best MT, though...  although I guess Celes could Imp her rather than Nina1.  But then Nina1 might not be able to protect Yuna again and the team could eat another Holy.  That said, Maragidyne sounds pretty bad and likely to finish Celes off, so might be the right call after all.  Actually...  fiery MT 2HKO backed by good dodge is horrible enough....  wait, apparently 2x Ice Daggers will cancel Yukiko's turn.  Okay never mind, Imp Nina1, then Imp Yuna on turn 2 (Celes should win the quickdraw anyway but Holy also has slow recharge).

Good thing too, since this fight could have done serious damage.

Team Tal vs. Mua, Golem, Steelix and Cecil
If Celes is alive, lol Fenrir.  If Celes is dead, this is tricky, but think Celes lives.

*Full Heal
Team Tal vs. Albedo (XS2) and Albedo (XS1)
Ummmmmmmmm.  Albedo2 has .40 PCHP MT damage, Albedo 1 has .30 PCHP MT damage.  Yukiko presumably resists Phoenix Flame, but the team needs to make sure neither Albedo lives to turn 2, and lol at that considering Albedo2's durability even without the arms.  (He can even probably safely go blocking arms -> spam MT for 2+ turns anyway.)  You NEED to Immune Holy / Fire here to have a shot at living.  Maybe I should throw Celes a bone and call Minerva F5 after all.
Team Tal vs. Queen Zeal
Pyro, if Zeal uses her form with Hallation at 100% HP and Tal gets to this fight in moderately good condition, Zeal will just die too quickly.  (I'm assuming Neph did not intend for this to be a fight with formshift hype because she would be practically unbeatable if so.)  Zeal2 is tankier but her Hallation unlocks at 50% HP, as does her MP-0, unless Tal triggers a counter with MT.  That said, Zeal's got dat 3HKO MT damage if somehow Team Tal limped through fight 1.
Assuming I granted Celes Minerva...  she still takes some hits if she can't kill Albedo2 quickly enough once her teammates die.  I think she has problems 2HKOing through Zeal2's limit phase, meaning Hallation -> Skygate poke wins despite Zeal being total damage fail vs. Minerva Celes.

May think later about Team Random.

[Nephrite]

It's definitely intended to be either Zeal1 or Zeal2, depending on which you prefer to vote on.

[Dhyerwolf]

Team Snowfire later.

Team Tal | Celes (Speed?) Nel, Lyn, Yukiko, Cray
[Celes: Kirin(M), Siren(M), Stray(M), Shoat(M), Zone Seeker((M), Seraphim(M), Fenrir] Celes' Espers
Floor 5a: Ceaseheal
*On this floor, restoration of HP and MP are reduced to 10% (of whatever they normally were (ANY healing is 10%, even if it was overkill full healing)) and revival may not be used by the player team.
Team Tal vs. Ryu1, Guv (No Call Team) and Yuri2
*Full Heal
Team Tal vs. Yulie, Nina1, Yuna and Yukiko
Team Tal vs. Mua, Golem, Steelix and Cecil
*Full Heal
Team Tal vs. Albedo (XS2) and Albedo (XS1)- Oh yeah, these two can be quite nasty. Well, Albedo 1 is a limit fighter with bad HP (can contribute some MT Fire damage) but Albedo 2 is a very durable person who can also gain Boost to eventually make killing someone easy. Also yeah, lot of MT coming around. With no healing and no revival and Albedo 2 having that much HP but also being able stall for an extra 20+ turns while gaining boost, people should fall here (Lyn and Nel seem like solid candidates if he had to take two out). Also...MT spam Chains too. If he can use this 3 times in a row and have it be full MT damage, this match doesn't seem doable without a lot of Holy res.
Team Tal vs. Queen Zeal-


Team Random | Jerin, Eileen, Billy(Neo Speed), Kyra, Raynie
Eileen- ~112%ish Speed to me, Level wise safe to say that Eileen has at best 1 L4 which would be extremely nasty, but may have not have any (needs 130 MAG, has 177 endgame. Only needs to lose 20 levels. May gain one at end of floor, but not beginning). Otherwise, maybe averagish MT and Copper Flesh.
Jerin- Let's call 125%ish-130%?, Okay MT Ice MAgic, AoE Fire, AoE Confuse, MP Drain, Healing, perhaps of MT variety (L28 gain of L48 stat topic)
Billy- Starts about 108% turn 1, Holy Physicals, MT Healing, Haste
Kyra- Hair above average speed? (Unless starting with +5 speed equip), Probably has 5 shots of MT Wind Magic, some MT Attack Busting, ST Healing
Raynie- Averagish

[Floor 4: Diff'rent Strokes]
Team Random vs. Hahn, Tia, Gadwin, Luna, Mareg and Shana- Jerin goes for MT, Tia heals Hahn, Eileen can MT, Shana can WSD and heal up everyone else. Uh, with starting SP, wiping out Luna and Hahn seems problematic (also having taken WSD damage doesn't help). Hahn especially as the team has one reviver. They go for him, but Luna sleeps everyone but Billy (assuming he chooses to block Sleep to me) and one other on average. Let's somehow assume this works out okay, but not really convinced even here.
Team Random vs. Yumei, Badrach, Aelia, Lorenta and Grey- Jerin MT, Eileen MT, Kyra MT.
Team Random vs. Worker 8, FFT Cloud, Beowulf, Olan, Alma and Reis- So team is not good at taking down Worker 8 (non-Billy physicals). Beowulf is mostly just physicals too with his chosen MEvade. Cloud won't be gotten by Eileen's MT. No clue what Olan's default equips are. Billy is the only one worth anything at healing status. Team needs to wipe out Cloud and Olan ASAP then. Olan probably goes after the first three, so Eileen, Jerin and Billy focus there. Questions are if Jerin can double Cloud, otherwise it doesn't seem greatly likely that he will be killed. Otherwise, Worker 8 physical+Ultima+Reis. Goes off at decent times, can replace with Crush if needed (actually, Crush+Reis or Ultima will do it. Hell, Crush+Beowulf physical as we know that neither will be dieing soon and that no way to interrupt them going together)
Team Random vs. Albel, Adray, Roger Huxley, Noel and Chisato
Team Random vs. Palom, Porom, Tellah, Edward, Cid and Yang- Only effective reviver and status-removing falling in floor 3 at best. Mass of status yet to come will prove too much.


Team Trips | Yuri1, Fogel, Cielo, Yukiko, Mime (SSL)
Floor 3b: Multiply
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team Trips vs. Billy, Bart, Rico and Elly
Team Trips vs. Raquel (WA4), Rudy (WA1), Brad (WA2), Gallows (WA3) and RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT (WAXF)- Have a few potential more worries than others here I guess. Yuri 1 we will call 45% damage (SSL), Fogel 65% and Cielo 35%. No clue how OB accuracy works, so don't know how much of an extra boost Fogel is getting on Accuracy. Now Raquel might effectively quarter Fogel's damage (we'll say 15%). Okay, 45+35+15 is 95, but that should just kill Raquel thanks to a little bit worse Mdur. Note that Trips team probably has a 25% chance of retalitate related death, and then another 15% chance (Raquel MT counter). Also they eat about 40% MT (Ragnar). Also, if Raquel evades a lot, Red Zone. So there are a lot of ways that this can go wrong.
Team Trips vs. Alma, Kresnik, Yulie and Marle
Team Trips vs. Spherimorph, Dalton and Augst-
Team Trips vs. Shadow Yukiko and Wendigo (FFX)- Another potential worrisome fight. Wendigo has like 2 PC HP, so...unlocking OHKO MT damage below 75% HP means that the team will see it. Off 104% speed=the team will mostly be dead. Shadow Yukiko contributes by offing Yuri. So Fogel solo vs Wendigo (Taken 110% Damage, needs 2 more Fogel attacks) and Shadow Yukiko (3 PC HP by the stat topic). Fogel hits again, Wendigo hits, Shadow Yukiko summons princes. These princes...the stat topic says that use Diarama immediately after being summoned, but don't remember if that means the same turn. If so, Diarama becomes 1 PC HP MT worth of healing and then they tank Fogel's accuracy while boosting own evasion (And then use ITD drain magic). Assuming Yukiko is more like 2 PC HP...are those Diarama's immediate that turn? Because that will be too much with Fear thrown in. Abstain for now.

[Clear Tranquil]

Well as I mentioned in the last thread Nel has near Faerie Friendesque offence with her Aerial (1125% DM) I think Tal's Nel should also have her Whirlwind now/have Whirlwind built up some and if you allow SO3 characters max hits with their skills like I do, Nel's Whirlwind can hit up to fifty times for a 3250+ % DM, it's actually an even stronger DM than Faerie Friends (not counting Power Dance) Also there's the tech where passive skills like Increase HP damage/Stun can be applied to the Whirlwind for increased damage though that's probably Turn 2 >_> Again not really sure if any of this actually helps Tal or not, just throwing it out there (I think he at least has enough offence to deal with one Albedo, dunno about two)~

[Nephrite]

I don't know if this matters, but Fogel's Agility is pretty high, so his accuracy should be too.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Snowfire passes, other teams fail.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Team Tal | Celes (Speed?) Nel, Lyn, Yukiko, Cray
[Celes: Kirin(M), Siren(M), Stray(M), Shoat(M), Zone Seeker((M), Seraphim(M), Fenrir] Celes' Espers
Floor 5a: Ceaseheal
*On this floor, restoration of HP and MP are reduced to 10% (of whatever they normally were (ANY healing is 10%, even if it was overkill full healing)) and revival may not be used by the player team.
Team Tal vs. Ryu1, Guv (No Call Team) and Yuri2 - Celes statuses Yuri2 out, Nel and Lyn ruthlessly slaughter Guv and Celes finishes off Ryu1 with Doom turn two. Yeah, Stray is irrelevant.
*Full Heal
Team Tal vs. Yulie, Nina1, Yuna and Yukiko - Nel is faster than Yukiko and Ice Daggers hitting weakness guarantees she doesn't live to see a turn. Lyn one-rounds Yulie and Nina1 -has- to open with Wall on Yuna or herself if she doesn't want to eat status whoring from Celes. To boot, RUNIC HYPE manhandles Yuna's Holy.
Team Tal vs. Mua, Golem, Steelix and Cecil - Since Celes lives, Fenrir trivializes this fight.
*Full Heal
Team Tal vs. Albedo (XS2) and Albedo (XS1) - EDIT: 20% LIMIT ON SOUL BLAST AHAHAHAHAHAHA FAIL. Albedo 1 is even scary, honestly, but Tally-chu totes 2HKOs him with Nel and Lyn at -worst-. Meanwhile, Yukiko (who -immunes- Albedo1's full HP MT damage by now, guyze) spams Diarama, Celes spams MT Cure 2 and Cray probably does some buffing on Nel and Lyn to augment their offense against Albedo, thus negating that first MT 3HKO shot long-term. Lyn and Nel both spoil Albedo2's defensive gimmick to boot. I think I see HP averages closer to 1200 than 1000 in the Albedo fight to boot, so yeah, the 7HKO MT is so so fearsome even under Ceaseheal. He could try to play off hitting weakness on Yukiko, but his ice damage is ST and hurp durp that gets arguably Runic-owned anyway, and I don't think he even outpaces the healing very well -anyway-. <_<
Team Tal vs. Queen Zeal - I think I see Zeal getting doubled by Lyn and she's roughly 1.75x PC HP to me. Celes honestly just condemns Yukiko to death (YES. I'M SERIOUS. Otherwise, hitting weakness on her means Zeal overwhelms the team pretty bad) with Doom or Break or something, then dogpiles happen.

Team Random | Jerin, Eileen, Billy(Neo Speed), Kyra, Raynie
[Floor 4: Diff'rent Strokes]
Team Random vs. Hahn, Tia, Gadwin, Luna, Mareg and Shana - Explosions. Eileen+Jerin = dead Tia before she gets anything going, Kyra and Raynie mop up.
Team Random vs. Yumei, Badrach, Aelia, Lorenta and Grey - And again.
Team Random vs. Worker 8, FFT Cloud, Beowulf, Olan, Alma and Reis - And now, this gets dicy. I don't allow Alma and Olan to switch equipment, but Cloud immunes Earthquake and everybody else is hitting the Confusion immunity besides Olan here (and Reis has such low Faith that Confuse isn't easily hitting her). But... wait, does Kyra start with BINDWA? If she does, the team cannot block both Confuse and Sleep at the same time outside Alma... but then, team Random's offense without Earthquake sucks and, without Billy, the team has no status healing worth noting (Jerin misses Stone and most of Beo's status, for instance). I -will- note that Billy himself doesn't get revival until floor 5 at the earliest, though, and Jerin already has it. On the other hand, I give Aegis less credit than Dhyer does. Abstain on this fight.


Team Trips | Yuri1, Fogel, Cielo, Yukiko, Mime (SSL)
Floor 3b: Multiply
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team Trips vs. Billy, Bart, Rico and Elly - Fogel+Yuri one-round the most relevant people.
Team Trips vs. Raquel (WA4), Rudy (WA1), Brad (WA2), Gallows (WA3) and RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT (WAXF) - Ew. Fogel probably doesn't deal even 30% of Raquel's HP in damage and the rest of the team is really bad at killing her too - more importantly, they're -incapable- of keeping her out of Red Zone danger range. In practice, she's getting 25 FP, a turn and kills everything. Ragnar is also bad news if you allow him to use Ravaging Rave -at all-, because that's KOing Cielo and Yukiko stat.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Soul Blast is indeed a limit, and a 20% one at that, as per my notes here. Albedo's full-HP offence is horrible.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

It -is-? Okay, I can rest in peace now.

[Dhyerwolf]

So it sounds like Albedo's EVA stat is only good for blocking while his arms exist (Which...I'm not sure why? He already takes such minimal damage then).

What I am assuming is that Albedo can still combo other moves however? 2 Stock lets him solidly OHKO (albeit with Thunder, so if anyone resists, not so effective) or 60% MT with some probably shitty status? Release of Desire II being below 20% also instead of 50% would be horrible for him.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I think it takes him four turns to even build half that much stock. Don't feel the love for the idea of stealing stock from people who don't have that mechanic at all if you're hyping that.

[SnowFire]

Team Random's fights appear to be a speed-off trainwreck, think I will abstain on that.  Lots of moving parts.

Team Tal: Well, I asked Elf in chat if Albedo had any HP limits, and didn't get a response!  Anyway...  Albedo2 is still a problem, but think the Lyn-Nel combo pretty well spoils Albedo's defensive game, so he only gets one Soul Blast off.  And...  Jo'ou has a good point about just executing Yukiko before Zeal.  That said, does anyone know if counterboost costs a boost gauge?  If it does, then no big deal, Team Tal eats Soul Blast then finishes smashing.  If it doesn't, and Albedo has built up a natural boost, he can presumably do Soul Blast x2 on his counterboost, which would be unpleasant once Zeal gets a single turn to finish the MT KO.

Not too important since I think Tal passes the first two battles anyway, but since it would be quite relevant later, on Jo'ou's comments on them:

I'm allowing Tally-chu a second already mastered Esper here, I noted to Neph before that not allowing to equip two in this floor when they were equipping two the whole game is kinda stupid. So, Stray owns the hell out of this fight, none of them can even resist that status besides Ryu1 with dragoning and that eats ID from Celes before he can attack.

I strongly disagree with this, FWIW.  Celes only gets 2 Espers on 2 specific floors out of 10, not the "entire game."  She originally got just 1 Esper per floor starting on Floor 3, and she was given more as basically a gift to make her more usable.  I don't see why throwing a bone to Celes in 2 extra espers means she gets a MAJOR extra advantage given to her that's explicitly disallowed in the Celes rules.  Again, I re-used an Esper on Floor 9 just for the Esper summon; the Esper summons can be quite relevant and themselves a reason to pick an Esper on a floor.  Celes's power level dramatically goes up if she gets to keep learning spells on the later floors with a new Esper while having Stray / ZoneSeek / Golem / Fenrir etc. in her back pocket to bring out when she wants.  If the rules said she could summon any Esper she previously learned and this was priced in, then fine, but this case is quite open & shut: one-Esper-per-floor is a specific arbitrary restriction to make the Dungeon character interesting and also reflect that there's a cost in-game for keeping an Esper on that you already know all the spells to.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Celes is a 4 as -is- (so, I don't see how learning rate will make her somehow cheap for her cost). I argued about the whole growth flow as well with you: I find the arbitrarily up-down swinging on Esper learning and using weirder than simply keeping a consistent flow (why isn't Celes getting two Espers on floor 6 and onwards, then, since the AP starts flowing like wine? And is the early early WoR -really- one whole floor long anyway? Hell, I find the early levels handing you more Esper learning than the later ones sorta baffling, since AP flow is lower then unless you're doing something like farming Intangirs. It's more that you get a boatload of espers with very low-maintenance AP mults at that point than you getting more AP period). I'd personally prefer if the rules simply went "one esper for learning, one for normal usage", since in-game you can swap Espers in-between fights depending on your whim just fine and doing so with only an Esper or two is unlikely to swing back on your learning rate much. Neph didn't seem to have a problem with my view when I talked to him either, so I'm sticking with it for now.

EDIT: Though, hmmm, I guess I -am- bending rules. Lemme check how the fight pans out with only Fenrir. EDIT #GrefterCollective: Annnnnnnnnd that was useless.

EDIT #Grefter: I'm pretty sure counterboosting spends a boost gauge, at the very least for most enemies. I remember randoms counterboosting me and spending that boost level with it, but there could be bosses who bend the rules. Regardless, I doubt Albedo of all people would have -that- caveat.

[Dhyerwolf]

Albedo fights probably need at least a little alteration for future fights (Albedo 2 has a cool defensive gimmick, but both of them being limit fighters and Albedo kind of being a bit horrible on the durability otherwise makes it pretty much "Can you hit Albedo 2's gimmick likely)

For Zeal and knocking Yukiko out first, Zeal should be the fastest turn 1 right (I mean...I would think Yukiko and Auto-Sukukaja make it on average not an issue. Don't remember when exactly that had the ability to pop up)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Zeal going first depends on how many speed tabs you consider against her. I don't think a 12.something average is very unreasonable for her (DL average is practically 11, after all!), which would put her below Celes in the turn gauge. CT enemies -are- a bit faster than their numbers indicate due to ATB quirks, but dunno -how much- would that factor in, reasonably speaking (as in I'm not sure I'd see the difference being higher than, say, 7.5%).

[SnowFire]

If Counterboost costs a boost gauge, then Team Tal gets a pass.  Albedo wants to resolve 2x Soul Blast to set up for Zeal, but with only 1, Zeal can get rushdowned first.

Re Celes...  well, as noted yourself on "low-maintenace Espers", Magic Point gain isn't everything.  It goes up some in the WoR, sure, but doesn't exactly flow like wine unless you hunt Cactrots.  Early Espers like Siren have a smallest spell growth rate of x6; you'll master them far faster while getting 1-2 Magic Points per WoB battle than something like Ragnarok or Raiden's x1 growth rate while you're getting 3-4 Magic Points per WoR battle.  So it's not irrational to have the Esper mastery rate slow down.

But that shouldn't even really matter.  This is the dungeon, not FF6, hence the unrealistic Espers on Floor 1 & 2.  If Neph wants to change the rules and have it be "pick an Esper for learning / pick an extra Esper for use", then fine, although this is an increase in power, especially on the later floors (woo MT status options she normally only has ST / MT Shell / MT revival + damage / etc.).  The reason I'm complaining is because it inserts a really weird votesplit.  Neph has said before, specifically, that Celes can only use the Espers she has equipped for a floor, and people base their Esper choice around that.  If somebody picks, say, a statusy Esper on a floor to get through it, they're being a chump if actually they already had the MT status if they wanted it from the earlier Stray, and could have picked a less-useful Esper with better spells instead.  Also, repeating an Esper pick becomes stupid under your view, but potentially necessary under the baseline rules, so blargh.

[Dhyerwolf]

Zeal going first depends on how many speed tabs you consider against her. I don't think a 12.something average is very unreasonable for her (DL average is practically 11, after all!), which would put her below Celes in the turn gauge. CT enemies -are- a bit faster than their numbers indicate due to ATB quirks, but dunno -how much- would that factor in, reasonably speaking (as in I'm not sure I'd see the difference being higher than, say, 7.5%).

Zeal 2 is 14 speed...but also skips her first turn, but I can only assume that is not being considered, because uh...wow, that would be extremely horrible.

[Dhyerwolf]

Actually, solo boss=no scaling, meaning Zeal has a bit over 5 PC HP or something now, so skipping her first turn is not so bad since that HP busting threat level is now below 2.5 PC HP and MT can't be used. The team does have some high damage fighters, but needing to take out a PC yourself hurts.