Author Topic: Diversionary Twink League Week 4: Apparently All the Spells is a good twink! (Read 2486 times)

Cmdr_King · « **on:** October 23, 2012, 10:01:38 AM »

Bluelike- Finals, even!

Gawn Brawdia (Wild ARMs 4) vs Brahman (Digital Devil Saga 2)

Godlike

Cait Sith (Final Fantasy VII)- Sneak Attack+Shield, Master Magic+Counter, MP Up. Mystile, Ribbon. vs Virginia Maxwell (Wild ARMs 3)- All mediums. May not alter mediums mid-battle.
Blue (SaGa Frontier)- Raised as a Gunner (see Emelia for rough stats). May not set Tower, Overdrive, or Stasis Rune. vs Fou-Lu (Breath of Fire IV)

Short Form

Bluelike Finals

Gawn (WA4) vs Brahman (DDS2)

Godlike

Cait (FFVII) vs Ginny (WA3)
Blue (SaGa) vs Fou (BoFIV)

Pyro · « **Reply #1 on:** October 23, 2012, 12:00:32 PM »

Gawn (WA4) vs Brahman (DDS2): Quinta-acting and multiple forms owns what Gawn does so hard.

Godlike

Cait (FFVII) vs Ginny (WA3)
Blue (SaGa) vs Fou (BoFIV): Thou hast no hope.

superaielman · « **Reply #2 on:** October 23, 2012, 12:09:44 PM »

Bluelike Finals

Gawn (WA4) vs Brahman (DDS2)- FUCK OFF GAWN

Godlike

Cait (FFVII) vs Ginny (WA3)- Strong kneejerk.
Blue (SaGa) vs Fou (BoFIV)- Blue spends too much time on the defensive here.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #3 on:** October 23, 2012, 12:43:24 PM »

Gawn (WA4) vs Brahman (DDS2) - super cries.

Godlike

Cait (FFVII) vs Ginny (WA3) - I'm really not sure what saves Ginny from eating Dispel => Froggie here even if she goes for Status Lock (she risks not even having enough FP off the cusp to use it straight off! In which case this just fails forever, she has to open with Dispel to even damage Cait with anything worth using). WA3 cheese has finally met its match.
Blue (SaGa) vs Fou (BoFIV) - BoundShot is -wonderful- when it works. When it doesn't... >_> Meanwhile, Blue just spends too damned much time in the defensive.

EDIT: And now I noticed CK's title. All The Spells indeed.

Laggy · « **Reply #4 on:** October 23, 2012, 05:09:51 PM »

Cait (FFVII) vs Ginny (WA3) - I think he just stalls and walls Ginny way too well.
Blue (SaGa) vs Fou (BoFIV) - For all his bag of tricks, there's not much he can do about getting hit by Soul Rend every turn and being threatened with a kill (it's MT to boot).

Random Consonant · « **Reply #5 on:** October 23, 2012, 05:44:40 PM »

Quote from: Laggy on October 23, 2012, 05:09:51 PM

Cait (FFVII) vs Ginny (WA3) - I think he just stalls and walls Ginny way too well.
Blue (SaGa) vs Fou (BoFIV) - For all his bag of tricks, there's not much he can do about getting hit by Soul Rend every turn and being threatened with a kill (it's MT to boot).

Works for me.

Glen Veil · « **Reply #6 on:** October 24, 2012, 12:58:42 PM »

Cait (FFVII) vs Ginny (WA3) Uh, ribbon doesn't catch death iirc? Ginny just equips Justine Raftina Zephyr and guards for 1-2 turns then Id's Cait with 100% fp Justine. Justine + Raftina are also blanket status immunity to everything.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #7 on:** October 24, 2012, 02:00:15 PM »

Unless I'm horribly mistaken, FF7 Ribbon -does- catch death.

EDIT: Also, keep in mind I don't (at least, not any longer) allow full status immunity to cover statuses that either don't exist in the game or don't have a sensible analog to apply. And for all its comprehensiveness, WA3 misses transform-like status such as Frog and Mini. FF7 just happens to cover just about every relevant status ever under the sun in one way or another. >_>

superaielman · « **Reply #8 on:** October 24, 2012, 04:04:51 PM »

I don't think it does offhand actually. You had to set added effect/Odin for that.

Nephrite · « **Reply #9 on:** October 24, 2012, 04:06:46 PM »

According to the Battle Mechanics guide, Death is: Protected by: 'Petrify', 'Peerless', 'Resist', Safety Bit, Destruct+Added Effect, Odin+Added Effect, Death Force

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #10 on:** October 24, 2012, 04:07:15 PM »

I see! Regardless, the above mentioned applies anyway. If she's relying on stalling for a couple turns to get where she wants, Frogfaces.

EDIT: NOT TO MENTION Cait has Resist to cast on himself! Hi Master Magic materia. Although a funny question is whether dispelling faces counters. >__________>

Glen Veil · « **Reply #11 on:** October 24, 2012, 06:18:31 PM »

Hmm, forgot about Resist, though I still think Ginny takes it since she's faster and the ID is still technically turn 1 for me, only reason I mentioned the defending for fp charge was for people who don't take the base ~65% chance to hit as turn 1. Alternatively since you don't see blanket status immunity catching everything Ginny just Exploders Cait since FF7 didn't have a status that turned people into self exploding bombs.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #12 on:** October 24, 2012, 06:45:56 PM »

Quote from: Glen Veil on October 24, 2012, 06:18:31 PM

Alternatively since you don't see blanket status immunity catching everything Ginny just Exploders Cait since FF7 didn't have a status that turned people into self exploding bombs.

Arguably covered by Transform statuses if you mean that literally. <_< Otherwise, that faces Mystile evade and Metronome counters.

EDIT: Actually, Mystile evade could arguably hit even summons, considering how amazingly inclusive FF7 evasion is. The argument against due to summons being summons is viable, though. On the other hand, I -swear- I've seen summons in FF7 miss before (disclaimer: memory could be messing with me, hihi haven't played game in over a decade), which can weaken this line of thought to a degree. This could go back and forth all week.

EDIT #TwitterPersonality: Which is fun!

Cmdr_King · « **Reply #13 on:** October 24, 2012, 07:22:00 PM »

*FAQ'd*

Well, all FFVII summons do have 255% hit rates.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #14 on:** October 24, 2012, 07:38:36 PM »

Quote from: Cmdr_King on October 24, 2012, 07:22:00 PM

*FAQ'd*

Well, all FFVII summons do have 255% hit rates.

Which doesn't invalidate my memory necessarily (ENEMIES IN FF7 WITH FIXED EVADE RATES THAT IGNORE ACCURACY LUL)! But this is an argument to say Mystile isn't much of a factor in this fight, certainly.

Tide · « **Reply #15 on:** October 25, 2012, 05:58:19 AM »

Godlike

Cait (FFVII) vs Ginny (WA3) - This is a really weird fight. Comes down to a few questions for me;

1) Who's faster? If Cait outspeeds Ginny (unlikely but he could spend turn 1 with Haste/Slow), he wins 100% of the time. This is only way I would even consider a definitive Cait win because Reset is really really stupid.

2) Transform is not an instant win because Focus arguably blocks it, and Ginny could also cast Reflect to bounce it back. And yeah, Ribbon doesn't block Death, which is a massive issue since Ginny doesn't even have to wait for a full 100 FP to attempt ID here

3) The exact mechanics of Shield. What does it block? Does it auto set damage to 0? What about added effects or added bonus damage (like Valiant).

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #16 on:** October 25, 2012, 02:26:28 PM »

Shield blocks all physical and elemental damage - you just don't take damage. Virginia isn't winning with damage unless it's stuff like Devastate/Arc Impulse/Phantasmic Heart - and she needs to chip perfectly to avoid Cait's limit hax instant turn full healing+MP healing stupid and every time she's even attempting to do anything straight to Cait is a turn where counter Metronome gets to play (it could suck, but it could also end the match instantly), and -that- is also assuming it doesn't ram Mystile evade. Cait is also faster than Ginny post-Haste, but not sure how much it helps, honestly... I don't think mutual buffing in this fight is very helpful, both sport Dispel.

Tide · « **Reply #17 on:** October 26, 2012, 05:14:15 AM »

Mm yeah, I just checked some facts. I think Ginny's only shot outside of IDing is requiring to be a specific HP range and hope she gets knocked right into crisis to trigger SOS effects. But that has way too many variables for it to go wrong since she also needs to keep Reflect up if you don't see Focus catching transform type status on top of needing to chip around Slots.

Also note for self and future twink league battles: Reset is 100 FP. FF7 Despell is 20 MP in cost. That puts a wrench into Reset focused strats.

Still ID may do it for me; I'll need to think on it.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #18 on:** October 26, 2012, 05:20:59 AM »

DeBarrier (which also kills reflect if that's the only relevant status, obviously wouldn't get Valiant though) is only 12 MP if that means anything.

Bluelike Finals

Gawn (WA4) vs Brahman (DDS2): Yeah, surely. Gawn would have trouble winning this even if I set Brahman's HP buffer to zero, and I definitely don't do that.

Godlike

Cait (FFVII) vs Ginny (WA3): Ginny has a chance but... odds really don't feel good. I feel like a hasted Cait can more or less completely control the fight.
Blue (SaGa) vs Fou (BoFIV): Blue might be able to pull off something with Reviva or whatever (he has the right damage type in MegaWindblast, and is way faster, and should avoid a OHKO?) but probably not.

Laggy · « **Reply #19 on:** October 26, 2012, 09:11:51 AM »

Reviva being 9 JP puts a bit of a crimp in that plan. I guess he can Reviva -> not get OHKO'd -> MWB chain until he runs out of JP, but that's 18 JP per cycle. He could also fall back to BoundShot and pray for ITD you see him running out before then I guess... then he has 6 revives to go through, limited by his LP (64 JP, leaving him with 1-3 MWBs depending on how generous you feel). Yeah, don't think it's enough, but you could math it out I guess.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #20 on:** October 26, 2012, 12:21:05 PM »

Bluelike Finals

Gawn (WA4) vs Brahman (DDS2)

Godlike

Cait (FFVII) vs Ginny (WA3) - I'm feeling the ID hype and I always let a PC with full status immunity in their home game get status immunity against statuses that don't exist in their game, like Frog here, so this is more Ginny's fight to me. She can even Defend the first round to boost her ID chances and if Cait uses Resist, she can Dispel chain him until he runs out of MP for casting Resist. Long fight, but a solid enough strategy.
Blue (SaGa) vs Fou (BoFIV) - I hyped Reviva chaining before, I feel like I should stick to my view on it being awesome here, too.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #21 on:** October 26, 2012, 04:59:51 PM »

Reviva is kinda useless there in practice. Fou just dispels it with Sanctuary (this is much worse than what happened in the Isolde fight, since it's pretty much a wasted turn outside of doubles, which aren't -that- common - I suspect non-Quick Draw Blue runs a 4-3 on Fou) and Blue runs out of gas kind of fast in this setup if he's spamming Reviva. Laggy's math feels pretty spot-on there. With 64 JP, Blue is getting like two shots of magical damage before he runs out of useful resources to work with (Bound Shot's odds of ITD are nice, but I've been inclined to respect Fou HP more lately, giving me the gut feeling that he needs three ITD Boundshots minimum to off Fou, and even at maxed Will/Int, the odds on a crit are only 66%. I think mixing with MegaWindBlast, that reduces it to two MWBs and two BSes. Obviously, whenever one doesn't crit, Blue just cries himself to sleep. Too much can go wrong there).

EDIT: Reviva is initiative too! So, replace that with constant 3-2s, but still, Laggy's point is pretty good regardless. Sanctuary shuts down them cheese pretty hard.

Laggy · « **Reply #22 on:** October 26, 2012, 05:45:09 PM »

Actually, Sanctuary just kind of screws Blue, I forgot it existed. Fou responds to Reviva by using Soul Rend, then countering Reviva with Sanctuary afterwards, threatening a perma kill. Blue has no other spells that actually fully heal, which keeps him in a Reviva lock except for doubles (without dispel, he could alternate turns between Reviva and attacking due to Reviva's pre-emptive nature). So yeah, that pretty much seals the deal.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #23 on:** October 27, 2012, 12:45:02 AM »

MindHeal is full, for what it's worth. I don't think it ultimately changes much though... I hadn't realised Reviva was that expensive. GlassShield may be somewhat more cost-efficient unless you think Fou-Lu has something that gets around it (it gets most magic, physicals, and HP-based damage but you could maybe see something weird like Power Flux or Dark Wave doing it) though it lacks any initiative hype for however much you respect that.

Quote

I'm feeling the ID hype and I always let a PC with full status immunity in their home game get status immunity against statuses that don't exist in their game, like Frog here, so this is more Ginny's fight to me. She can even Defend the first round to boost her ID chances and if Cait uses Resist, she can Dispel chain him until he runs out of MP for casting Resist. Long fight, but a solid enough strategy.

This doesn't work, because Cait Sith will use Slow on Virginia, which she doesn't immune explicitly. Since Virginia's mediums are already locked into Justine + Raftina (for status immunity) and Celesdue (for dispel), she has only her ordinary respectable speed and lacks either Decelerate or Quicken, so after slow Cait will have a definite speed advantage, and can avoid dispel-locks with doubleturns. Resist is 120 MP though, so Virginia might be able to run Cait Sith out of resources anyway. However, Virginia lacks healing (besides a match-losing summon of Raftina as that drains her MP) and Cait just needs one doubleturn to get into a winning position by using Demi3 + some finishing move or other.

I should also note that I don't buy Justine ignoring Mystile (ID is a shitty status in WA3 due to rampant enemy immunity, and there's no magic evade you can prove it ignores, so not feeling a random respect check for it against FF7 magic evade which is very all-encompassing). I also don't see Focus + Inoculation (which don't even cover all status in WA3) shutting down all non-slow FF7 status but I'm a bit more understanding of that one.

Laggy · « **Reply #24 on:** October 27, 2012, 01:38:37 AM »

NEB: I don't allow either. They're from schools that Blue never gets or otherwise has the capability to learn without purchasing, nor are they required for his quest! Life is particularly egregious since Blue specifically cannot learn it until after the duel with Rouge, and Mystic requires you to give up Realm before the duel (and obviously isn't Gift-available).

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Author Topic: Diversionary Twink League Week 4: Apparently All the Spells is a good twink! (Read 2486 times)