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Author Topic: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97  (Read 6691 times)

Nephrite

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Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« on: December 02, 2012, 04:47:49 PM »


"Hmph... This is beginning to vex me. Very well, continue on."


Link to the Dungeon Wiki!

----------------
**Full Heals reset limit and other types of gauges when teams pass through them.

Team Djinn | Lenneth, Ivan, Jane, Sacred Slayer (Life), Marco
[Ivan: Gust, Zephyr, Breeze, Smog, Squall, Kite and Hail | Wind Mage] Ivan's Djinni
Floor 7a: The Elemental Ties that Bind
Team Djinn vs. Sasarai, Samurai (FF5), Hellion, Golem (Pokemon) and Scarmiglione-Z (FF4DS)
Team Djinn vs. Barbariccia, Crono, Zalbard (ShF2), Tiamat (FF1) and Kanji
Team Djinn vs. Kary, Cameela (ShF2), Yukiko, Ho-oh and Alen (S1)
Team Djinn vs. Ice Queen Avril, Virgil (XS3), Lenus and Geshp (ShF2)
Team Djinn vs. Profound Darkness, Orgulla (XS2) and Lamington

Team Piggyman | Songstress, Eileen (NeoSpeed), Garnet, Marcus, FFT Priest, Nall
[Floor 5a: Ceaseheal]
*On this floor, restoration of HP and MP are reduced to 10% (of whatever they normally were (ANY healing is 10%, even if it was overkill full healing)) and revival may not be used by the player team.
Team Piggyman vs. EngineerCar and Karin
Team Piggyman vs. Yulie, Nina1, Yuna and Yukiko
Team Piggyman vs. Mua, Golem, Steelix and Cecil
*Full Heal
Team Piggyman vs. Albedo (XS2) and Berle
Team Piggyman vs. Queen Zeal

Team MICHAEL | T260G, Mesarthim, Yulie (Body Charge), Raynie, Marco
[T260G: Type-2 Body [Rabbit]] [Kamikaze-Crush, CombatMastery, ShootingMastery, PluralSlash]
[Floor 4: Buff Enough]
*On this floor, all buffs & debuffs have their effects increased by 50%. Status is not included.
Team MICHAEL vs. Alakazam, Mr. Mime and Charizard
Team MICHAEL vs. Demi and Angelo
Team MICHAEL vs. Yuna and Auron
Team MICHAEL vs. Arnaud, Yulie, Lilka and Emma (AC:F)
Team MICHAEL vs. Adachi, Alexia (XF) and Alma


Team Pyro | Bartz, Hilda, Eiko, Jean, Marco (Body Charge)
[Bartz: Chemist (Ninja) (Monk)]
[Floor 3b: Multiply]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team Pyro vs. Billy, Bart, Rico, Chu-Chu and Elly
Team Pyro vs. Raquel (WA4), Rudy (WA1), Brad (WA2) and RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT (WAXF)
Team Pyro vs. Nina4, Yukari, FFT Chemist and Artea
Team Pyro vs. Spherimorph, Dalton, Galura (FF5) and Augst
Team Pyro vs. Fuse, Cecil (FF4 DS), Crono and Guv (No Call Team)


Life - One character's healing effects now also allows for revival, however the healing also only revives characters with 1 HP. The healing received from spells that hit more than one target may be used as revival once per battle.

Neo Speed - The effective speed of one character is increased by 10% and increases 20% each time that character takes a turn, this effect caps at 2x base speed. The speed of this character cannot be increased in any way, nor can this character grant or be granted turns via any manner. If the character dies the speed is removed and cannot be regained.

Body Charge - Increases damage and effective speed of a character by 1.3x and decreases damage to them to .7x.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 09:18:03 PM by Nephrite »

Pyro

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2012, 05:19:15 PM »
Team Pyro | Bartz, Hilda, Eiko, Jean, Marco (Body Charge)
[Bartz: Chemist (Ninja) (Monk)]
[Floor 3b: Multiply]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.

Marco has Transturn now so the idea of my team is realized. Marco is 130% speed and has access to the skillsets of everyone else via Transturn. Hilda has 100% ID from Grand Slam, Entrance for the zany 2.5x damage buff, Bartz has the nuttiness of FF5 Chemistry which is like HP doubling, Speed doubling, Perfect hit-rate status (evade/resistance-ignoring), Element walling, parasitic healing, MP healing... Throw gives great damage via an Epee (limited to 1-2 a floor which is all he'd need). Eiko has Some tricks up her sleeve, and of course Jean is already fast and her status can be doubled up Via Marco and is MT this floor even early.

Team Pyro vs. Billy, Bart, Rico, Chu-Chu and Elly: 130% speed MT 100% ID. gg
Team Pyro vs. Raquel (WA4), Rudy (WA1), Brad (WA2) and RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT (WAXF): Everyone but Raquel gets ID'd before they move. Raquel is like 63% speed so Marco insta-doubles her in addition to my ENTIRE team getting turns on her. Not a problem.
Team Pyro vs. Nina4, Yukari, FFT Chemist and Artea: MT status off Jean or Bartz busts out the Mix/Drink skillsets to buff up before their turns.
Team Pyro vs. Spherimorph, Dalton, Galura (FF5) and Augst: Protective buffs go up and make this fight easy enough. After that it is a very controlled affair of buffing for huge damage (Hi Entrance) and applying it.
Team Pyro vs. Fuse, Cecil (FF4 DS), Crono and Guv (No Call Team): doubled MT status from Jean or MT ID followed by smashing. That works.

And all of this is just assuming you don't let Trans Turn be MT'd. If you do... well...

Anyway, easy Pass for me this week!
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 05:30:16 PM by Pyro »

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2012, 05:38:36 PM »
Team Piggyman | Songstress, Eileen (NeoSpeed), Garnet, Marcus, FFT Priest, Nall
[Floor 5a: Ceaseheal]
*On this floor, restoration of HP and MP are reduced to 10% (of whatever they normally were (ANY healing is 10%, even if it was overkill full healing)) and revival may not be used by the player team.

Team Piggyman vs. EngineerCar and Karin - Okay, Songstress is useless in this fight outside of boosting mHP (it gives -some- extra buffering for the people, at least). Eileen and Garnet -need- to go on offense lest they want Karin damage to pile up further. I think they can manage this fight before EC gets a second turn, but they take damage inevitably.
Team Piggyman vs. Yulie, Nina1, Yuna and Yukiko - Okay, now Nina NEEDS to cast status immunity to keep Yukiko from getting her party blown up. Eileen has to cast Copper Flesh on Songstress, and I'm pretty sure she'll bite it in this fight (Yuna redirects her efforts to KO Eileen, since she's paramount to a bunch of party strategies). I wouldn't see magic reflection/counters working with summons myself, though, since they're not reflectable in-game, don't seem to interact with straight counters and I'd at least establish -those- limits to Nina1's magic counters. Songstress ultimately mitigates the fight anyway: Silence or Sleep will control the fight when it goes off (Yuna can't resist both at once, needs to and it shuts off her elemental resistances, Yulie, even if you allow both statusblockers at once with no penalty to her stats -will- die before getting a turn anyway because Priest+Marcus physicals+Garnet spell kill her), but I think Eileen will be dead next turn and Yukiko gets a turn too, pushing the party down further. This doesn't look good.
Team Piggyman vs. Mua, Golem, Steelix and Cecil - Argh. Mua gets his swings before Songstress and ends the hopes of the party. Marcus is useless against this many physical tanks and Garnet can't OHKO them all even in her dreams.

Team MICHAEL | T260G, Mesarthim, Yulie (Body Charge), Raynie, Marco
[T260G: Type-2 Body [Rabbit]] [Kamikaze-Crush, CombatMastery, ShootingMastery, PluralSlash]
[Floor 4: Buff Enough]
*On this floor, all buffs & debuffs have their effects increased by 50%. Status is not included.
Team MICHAEL vs. Alakazam, Mr. Mime and Charizard - Rabbit body is criminally fast and PluralSlash should allow Alakazam to be 2HKOed by anything lest he heals, and that's admitting defeat anyway.
Team MICHAEL vs. Demi and Angelo - T2 is immortal under Protect, but Yulie is casting Quicken on her instead for triple-turning PluralSlash action, which eats Angelo alive (Kabuff is a WASTE OF A TURN because DQ8 defense is one of the worst things ever and any other buffing measure is useless long-term). Angelo's ID can knock a head or two here, but with Mesarthim around, that's not really amounting to much of anything.
Team MICHAEL vs. Yuna and Auron - Now, there's a conundrum here: T2 immunes Auron's breaks, and she's really the brunt of the offense, but his ITD damage is very dangerous to her if he stays alive. I think it's reasonable to hand Mes StasisRune (thus, Cockatrice), so both are forced to equip for Petrify immunity. Issue is that Team Neph kinda sucks at staving off the party overall (Yuna makes this fight SUCK getting Reflect off, since Raynie is his best source of damage (and she's getting targetted by Auron's Magic Break -immediately-) and PluralSlash doesn't ignore evade. I'm not sure I see how they can manage this fight without Dispel unless T2 has Magnify here, and I see no indication of such - WAIT Quicken Marco, endless Trans-turn spam. If Yuna casts Reflect, she's still bait to Mes' Maelstrom, which still 4HKOs her pretty flat at worst. If she casts Shell, Marco spams Sleep to at least focus fire on Auron then solo Yuna, with added Quickens -elsewhere-. It's unintuitive, but it works, since the enemies can't kill Marco impunely either (if they focus fire on Marco (and it's absolutely necessary to stop him from getting a turn), Raynie's damage remains unscathed and Team Neph manhandles Yuna, leading Auron to fail endlessly.
Team MICHAEL vs. Arnaud, Yulie, Lilka and Emma (AC:F) - T2 and Mes KO Emma, Yulie Quickens T2 and I suspect the fight goes nuts from this. Arnaud honestly... I want to say he Slow Downs Marco, since his trans-turning is egregiously dangerous... but Quicken can also go to Marco, and then he gets a turn to Trans-turn T2 anyway, and then T2 kills Yulie too (even if she uses MYSTIC POTION BERRY) and Slow Down merely keeps Marco back to his normal speed. Worst part is Raynie gets a turn before Yulie as well. I just have the nagging suspicion the team controls this fight way better than it should in spite of the sketchy offense.
Team MICHAEL vs. Adachi, Alexia (XF) and Alma - I'm not sure I see Alexia's Royal Cheer affecting Adachi's speed first turn (he goes last regardless of his speed in a game where it governs turn order for the vast, vast majority of fights), but let's say it does. I'm not sure how much it changes, because I'm way too inclined to think Neph benefits from the buffing game something fierce, and Alma casting MBarrier is pretty much asking to eat a Mesarthim/T2 knockout, at which point the fight is impossible to lose.


Team Pyro | Bartz, Hilda, Eiko, Jean, Marco (Body Charge)
[Bartz: Chemist (Ninja) (Monk)]
[Floor 3b: Multiply]
**All attacks, regardless of original ability, hit either all enemies or all allies for this floor.
Team Pyro vs. Billy, Bart, Rico, Chu-Chu and Elly
Team Pyro vs. Raquel (WA4), Rudy (WA1), Brad (WA2) and RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT (WAXF)
Team Pyro vs. Nina4, Yukari, FFT Chemist and Artea
Team Pyro vs. Spherimorph, Dalton, Galura (FF5) and Augst
Team Pyro vs. Fuse, Cecil (FF4 DS), Crono and Guv (No Call Team) - Trans-turn off 130% speed. This doesn't deserve any thought.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 06:01:36 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Nephrite

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2012, 05:49:46 PM »
What prevents Berle and Albedo from just straight-up killing Eileen or Garnet?

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2012, 05:55:33 PM »
Just a note that most of Chemist's 100% status requires Dragon Fangs, which aren't legal for Floor 3 (the enemy who first drops them is midgame, in Dragon Valley) and in my opinion, never becomes legal unless Pyro invests in Thief to stock up in items at a non-sluggish rate (being dropped by 3 randoms in the entire game = yeah not good enough for me).

Not that it matters, Pyro crushes this floor anyway.

edit: just noticed there is one status mix (confuse) that can be used with Turtle Shells. My above comments about "not enough enemies drop these to be legal to me, get a thief" still apply, but at least the first enemy who drops them is W1, so it is available if you feel differently. Oh, and Kiss of Blessing (Berserk) can be applied with storeboughts, but... it also hastes/images the other team, so yeah I would think twice about using that one. <_<
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 05:59:04 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Pyro

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2012, 06:12:09 PM »
NEB:
Lamia's Kiss (Perfect Confusion): Maidenkiss + Eyedrop

Dragon Fangs and Turtle Shells are fairly common drops, with enemies on the world map in World 1 dropping the latter with a 100% frequency (In my recent game, I was able to stock up on enough of these to last the entire game). Floor 3 is early world 2, so the Dragon Mountain there would (probably) be available which has a metric ton of Dragon Fangs drops. These aren't difficult drops because they are 100% instead of 1/8th or something. Dark Matters are the ones where you are talking Rare Drops. TurtleShells and Dragon Fangs are dropped plentifully, you can hunt them on the world map (or in specific dungeons for 100% drops in the case of Dragon Fangs), and they have no use other than Mix. So they shouldn't be restricted in the dungeon while Dark Matters either should be limited or outright banned.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 03:46:05 AM by Pyro »

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2012, 08:02:33 PM »
What prevents Berle and Albedo from just straight-up killing Eileen or Garnet?

Their immense damage suck and inability to get past Copper Flesh. Berle durability outside Meta-Guard ain't so hot and it's quite possible that full HP Albedo damage+Berle damage don't even add up to a 3HKO to average. Not to mention Songstress is likely spamming the 2x mHP song here, just to make things more pathetic.  There's a point to be said about their damage actually adding up, but they probably want to kill Garnet more than anything else and they will -struggle- to do so. This is particularly necessary because Garnet literally solos the Zeal fight.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 08:11:10 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Pyro

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2012, 08:05:36 PM »
Question: Does Nall's after-battle Revival work on the CeaseHeal floor?

Team Piggyman | Songstress, Eileen (NeoSpeed), Garnet, Marcus, FFT Priest, Nall
[Floor 5a: Ceaseheal]
*On this floor, restoration of HP and MP are reduced to 10% (of whatever they normally were (ANY healing is 10%, even if it was overkill full healing)) and revival may not be used by the player team.
Team Piggyman vs. Ryu1, Guv (No Call Team) and Yuri2 and Crono: Crono hurts everyone. Guv contributes to Songstress damage via the Initiative spear move.  Eileen must CF Songstress or Ryu1 will kill her with Tri-Rang/sword whack. Ryu1 tri-Rangs everyone and I think that kills Eileen. If not he just instead has a sword whack her off. Either way thats bad news. Guv/Ryu1/Yuri2 then get statused, and Crono is killed post-haste.
Team Piggyman vs. Yulie, Nina1, Yuna and Yukiko:Nina1 Holds Garnet while Yuna kills Songstress (I think Holy should be good enough for that). That's game.
Team Piggyman vs. Mua, Golem, Steelix and Cecil:
*Full Heal
Team Piggyman vs. Albedo (XS2) and Berle:
Team Piggyman vs. Queen Zeal
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 10:37:31 PM by Pyro »

Nephrite

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2012, 08:07:36 PM »
Question: Does Nall's after-battle Revival work on the CeaseHeal floor?

It does not.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2012, 08:23:32 PM »
Team Piggyman vs. Albedo (XS2) and Berle: Eileen CF's Garnet (if she can solo the next fight she NEEDS to survive). Berle and Albedo do their defensive stuff... I never had a good read on this fight. Berle has a 2HKO physical with lots of invincibility while Albedo is crazy durable with poorish damage but good Boost capacity? I have no idea what is really required to beat this fight.

Like FUCK Berle 2HKOs anything short of a WA4 boss. Tonfa's topic notes Meta-cancellation checks in at 2000 damage, which is at absolute best a low 3HKO against your party, and I can't see giving it 2x average speed credit in order to make that 2HKO-level offense in practice. Albedo's Boost capacity isn't any better than any other enemy had to that point either - i.e. he gets a boost level every six actions on average. Also, Albedo 7HKOs average for most of his fight to boot.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 08:31:00 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

dude789

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2012, 09:56:39 PM »
Team Djinn fails on the water fight I think. All those guys are durable so I think it takes a concentrated effort from the team to take one of the them out completely which leaves the survivors alive but heavily damaged and they can probably kill Jane which turns the fight into a mess. If they make it past the fight resources are bound to become and issue again because the team's healing is limited and they're going to have to heal up on some of the fights (Samurai's gil toss, Crono+Tiamat MT etc.) and I'm not bound to give them much leeway because there are a couple Ivan Statuses that absolutely have to hit.

Edit: Nevermind. Yeah that first fight has too much fast MT damage. Team Piggy fails.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 11:33:22 PM by dude789 »

Pyro

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2012, 10:08:54 PM »
Worth noting that Lenneth has infinite healing and revival, but Sacred Slayer/Ivan may have some resource problems.

Still not sure about the water fight.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2012, 10:12:07 PM »
Team Piggyman | Songstress, Eileen (NeoSpeed), Garnet, Marcus, FFT Priest, Nall
[Floor 5a: Ceaseheal]
*On this floor, restoration of HP and MP are reduced to 10% (of whatever they normally were (ANY healing is 10%, even if it was overkill full healing)) and revival may not be used by the player team.
Team Piggyman vs. Ryu1, Guv (No Call Team) and Yuri2 and Crono- Crono MT, Eileen CFs Songstress, Ryu 1 may at this point off someone though (Ryu is 0.5 SD above the more reasonable levels in the topic. Songstress is like 105%, Garnet is effectively like 104% turn 1 thanks to turn 1 FF 9 speed standardizing by filling up half the bars) So...say goodbye to Eileen and CF.
Team Piggyman vs. Yulie, Nina1, Yuna and Yukiko- Yuna kills Songstress. This is over.
Team Piggyman vs. Mua, Golem, Steelix and Cecil
*Full Heal
Team Piggyman vs. Albedo (XS2) and Berle
Team Piggyman vs. Queen Zeal

Yeah, if you go by NEB's BoF1 numbers (which...when I replayed the game, I basically ended up in the same place and did not use any Mrbl3s), Ryu 1 is significantly faster, and is only outspeed by Eileen and combines with Crono for any easy kill which sinks the match.
...into the nightfall.

Pyro

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2012, 10:30:45 PM »
Not sure how FF9 filling up halve the bar would affect Garnet's speed, but I had the same order before too (and I do figure Ryu1 goes before Garnet/Songstress). Hadn't considered Ryu1+Initiative Guv Action+ Crono offing EILEEN though. I forgot she was frail. That would mean she has to CF herself, but that means Songstress eats it instead. EQing won't help either. Yeah team Piggy is in a bad spot. Hadn't realized that fight was so nasty because I forget that in the dungeon Ryu1 will often want to do things other than waste his turn 1 transforming.

That would mean Piggy Fails for me too I suppose.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2012, 10:45:03 PM »
Also, that floor 7 water fight is absolutely nuts. There's no reason why it should have that many durable AND MT-heavy bosses. The only ways I can think anyone could handle that without some sort of heavy-handed invinco cheese is by having Blue's StasisRune Overdrive loop or Speed? Ryu2. But I just think that elemental floor should just go back to the aftergame where it began its life anyway.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 10:49:55 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

ThePiggyman

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2012, 11:42:31 PM »
Looks like my team fails. Can't argue against what's been brought to the table. Garnet, Marcus and Priest aren't making it to the Full Heal on their own. At least I had a better chance on this floor than the Ribbon Almark floor, where Songstress and Copper Flesh become useless, that's for sure! Thanks for everyone's input and votes. My interest in Nyarlie has been renewed, so I'll continue to vote and comment when I can. ^_^

Pyro passes without much trouble, I'd say. I don't think it's necessary to hold him to becoming a Thief to acquire the items. Most of them can be gotten from enemy drops. Also, I'm going to go by the original FF5 Chemist floor-by-floor stuff, back when FF5 Chemist was in the dungeon.

Floor 1: Ressurection (100% HP and 100% MP Revival), Resist Ice/Thunder/Fire (Absorb one element), Levitate (FLOAT) Lamia's Kiss (Charm), Restorative (Heals some status.)
Floor 3: Protect Drink, Split Shell (1/2 Defense and Magic Defense), Haste Drink, Panacea, Succubus Kiss (Drain)


Abstain on the other two; don't know the teams well enough.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 11:44:52 PM by ThePiggyman »
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If we believed in that, we wouldn't be forcing world-saving hero to fight eachother to the death for our amusement.

Nephrite

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2012, 11:50:48 PM »
Also, that floor 7 water fight is absolutely nuts. There's no reason why it should have that many durable AND MT-heavy bosses. The only ways I can think anyone could handle that without some sort of heavy-handed invinco cheese is by having Blue's StasisRune Overdrive loop or Speed? Ryu2. But I just think that elemental floor should just go back to the aftergame where it began its life anyway.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to have buffing, resistance, or something else to get them by there. However, it may be too hard regardless.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2012, 12:04:14 AM »
Quote
Dragon Fangs and Turtle Shells are fairly common drops, with enemies on the world map in World 1 dropping the latter with a 100% frequency (In my recent game, I was able to stock up on enough of these to last the entire game). Floor 3 is early world 2, so the Dragon Mountain there would (probably) be available which has a metric ton of Dragon Fangs drops. These aren't difficult drops because they are 100% instead of 1/8th or something. Dark Matters are the ones where you are talking Rare Drops. TurtleShells and Dragon Fangs are dropped plentifully, you can hunt them on the world map (or in specific dungeons for 100% drops in the case of Dragon Fangs), and they have no use other than Mix. So they shouldn't be restricted in the dungeon while Dark Matters either should be limited or outright banned.

Dragon Valley's not early World 2 (you have to do Exdeath's Castle/Big Bridge, Gloceana overworld, and the Moogle waterway dungeon first) can't see it before Floor 4 personally. Depending on how much optional stuff you do in W3 it may even be outright in the second half of the game.

Anyway, Dragon Fangs are "common" drops in that they are 100% from certain enemies. However, there are only two such enemies who are randoms in the entire game (I misspoke earlier when I said three... turns out one is just a monster-in-a-box). One is the Dragon Zombie, fought only one at a time, and only inside caves in Dragon Valley. The other is the Dragon Avis, in the final dungeon, and mercifully those are fought two at once sometimes, but still, yeah, this is not the type of thing which grows on trees and absolutely should not be available in unlimited numbers in the dungeon until maaaybe the very end of the game if you're generous.

Turtle Shells are a bit more available, yes. You're looking at:
-Grass Tortoises: show up 1-2 at a time with reasonable probability, Karnak area overworld (F2 probably)
-Land Turtles: show up 1-2 at a time with reasonable probability, Surgate area overworld (F4)
-Grass Tortoises again: Tycoon area overworld in W3 (F6, unless it's possible to fight randoms before going to the Pyramid of Moore there but I don't think it is...)

Unless you actively farm them, though, they're still not the type of thing you can just outright spam. They go unavailable for long periods of gameplay and there just aren't that many of them period, compared to the hundreds of battles you'd fight in an FF5 playthrough. Checking my last file (during which I used the Brave Blade, so I wouldn't have run from anything) since FF5a is nice enough to track this, I fought 15 of the enemies who drop Turtle Shells, and 11 of the enemies who drop Dragon Fangs (6 before the final dungeon). I don't think these are things that should be handed out willy-nilly like skeans. I guess you could argue me to allow one per floor (starting at F2 for shells and F4 for fangs), though I'm personally more fond of the Thief argument. You want to get the full power of Chemist? Take an extra floor to invest in it... it corresponds to the extra investment rare mix spam in-game would require.

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Nephrite

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2012, 12:40:08 AM »
I have removed Cagnazzo from the Floor 7 fight and have changed the first fight of Piggyman's matches to be EngineerCar and Karin from Shadow Hearts 2.

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2012, 12:52:33 AM »
I have removed Cagnazzo from the Floor 7 fight and have changed the first fight of Piggyman's matches to be EngineerCar and Karin from Shadow Hearts 2.

Cagnazzo honestly can stand to stay (he's fast, but very setup-heavy and all that jazz). Fiegmund is the one I'd remove without batting an eyelid. Getting rid of both a MT-heavy anti-physical durable boss -and- an interp headache (because SD3 and interp nightmares are an inseparable couple) is good. Also, Geshp is very problematic as well, GT one-rounding off that first turn speed. The setup pretty much means that you can't really buff through the battle (you need to survive roughly 2x PC HP worth of crowd-control magical offense -in a single turn- and that's not counting Lenus because she's kind of a limit boss, even if that limit triggers as soon as she gets hit by magic at all) and it makes you worry about status whoring from Celes, who is durable -and- spoils a lot of elements. I think it asks more of an endgame team than it can offer unless it's very specifically built to handle that fight, and that's bad form. Most buffing games don't give you over 2x PC durability - many of them don't even give you as much as 1.5x PC HP worth of durability. If even a fight like Melfice+Zog was hugely problematic because of how the MT lined up to overkill very precisely, putting a fight with three times as many targets who have, together, over two times the magical durability and possibly double the physical durability of -that- former fight just means it's completely insane.

Also, I'll note Lenus' best damage is Dark elemental and Celes isn't elemental at all on her to-go offense for that fight. <_< At the -very least-, you need Aika to even have a prayer, and even so, Lenus can doubleact MT physicals and Geshp damage with staff thwacks is nothing to sneer at either.

EDIT: Oh, just saw the new fight. Okay, that's -a lot- more manageable. Oddly. (At least Geshp is frail)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 01:05:35 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Nephrite

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2012, 01:40:23 AM »
I have again modified the Water fight to better reflect its intended difficulty.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2012, 01:51:13 AM »
Team Piggyman | Songstress, Eileen (NeoSpeed), Garnet, Marcus, FFT Priest, Nall
[Floor 5a: Ceaseheal]
*On this floor, restoration of HP and MP are reduced to 10% (of whatever they normally were (ANY healing is 10%, even if it was overkill full healing)) and revival may not be used by the player team.
Team Piggyman vs. EngineerCar, Karin- Assuming no Stocke and Crono, who were at one edit on this. Well, Engineer Car is MT 2HKO off solid durability. Eileen and Garnet should get Karin...but...one cavaet...does EngineerCar OHKO Eileen? He does 57.5% damage (maybe in effect less to me since there might be a few things I see higher in the SF average, but we'll go for this for now). I think Eileen is saved with subtractive defense (but not if you change it over). The flaw is that there is not really any capability to heal up though since they can't status out and wait. Whatever damage being taken is carried over, and EC car is durable enough to guarantee at least 1 turn (Which MT wise is like 50% to all, putting Songstress and Eileen near death)
Team Piggyman vs. Yulie, Nina1, Yuna and Yukiko- Eileen can CF Songstress, but then bites it to Holy thanks to spillover damage. Problems
Yulie blocks Sleep, Yuna Silence
Yukiko's evade could cause an issue (Although Garnet or Sleep should get through unless...)
??? what Nina's reflect will actually get here. Nina can initiative Dispel on Yukiko to cancel out Shiva at least.
Nina will counter offensive magic at 1/2 of power (If Garnet uses MT magic)

So my gut reaction is that the team needs a lot of calls to make it through this. Songstress status needs to ignore resistance (no clue there), ignore Wall and Dispel, Garnet's summons need to ignore Wall and Dispel (no way seeing it get past Dispel)...gut is still a fail here.

Team Piggyman vs. Mua, Golem, Steelix and Cecil- Oh yeah, if they get here, they still better be healed up or Mua will knock Songstress out (Garnet and Priest do run a little MP intensive, so needing to spam a bunch of healing could hurt)
*Full Heal
Team Piggyman vs. Albedo (XS2) and Berle
Team Piggyman vs. Queen Zeal
...into the nightfall.

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2012, 01:56:13 AM »
And Neph, FYI, don't know if you mean for IQA to open up sheningans with 4D Pocket (which I guess she'll just use on Jane, still making the fight potentially doable). Interesting combos with an HP limit boss though (flip is that in normal matches she will spam that and could be dangerous. Quirky and interesting though).
...into the nightfall.

Nephrite

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2012, 02:24:43 AM »
I am satisfied with IQA having 4D Pocket as it isn't game-winning.

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 97
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2012, 02:43:42 AM »
Also worth noting Follow Me is arguably faster anyway because initiative shenanigans, but mileage may vary.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....