Register

Author Topic: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses  (Read 2724 times)

Cmdr_King

  • Strong and Full of Love
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5581
  • Is Gay
    • View Profile
    • CK Blog
RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« on: December 17, 2012, 03:36:41 AM »
Godlike

Claude Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Jeremy Non (Wild ARMs 4)
Rubicante (Final Fantasy IV) vs Wraith (Valkyrie Profile)
Seymour Guado (Final Fantasy X) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)
Cid Raines (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV)

Heavy

Alfina (Grandia III) vs Ike (Fire Emblem Series)
Alicia (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Kary (Final Fantasy)
Nina (Breath of Fire) vs Snow Villiers (Final Fantasy XIII)
Strago Magus (Final Fantasy VI) vs Clarissa Arwin (Wild ARMs XF)

Middle

Blanca (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Alexia Lynn Elesius (Wild ARMs XF)
Riki (SaGa Frontier) vs Peter (Shining Force II)
Cleo (Suikoden) vs Kimahri (Final Fantasy X)
Belenus (Valkyrie Profile) vs Etna (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness)

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Alfred Schroedinger (Wild ARMs 3)
Jogurt (Shining Force) vs Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters)
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Rinoa Heartlily (Final Fantasy VIII)
Milich Oppenheimer (Suikoden) vs Randi (Secret of Mana)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 04:10:51 AM by Cmdr_King »
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4950
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 04:51:06 AM »
Claude Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Jeremy Non (Wild ARMs 4)
OHKOs, probably not slain before he gets a turn.
Rubicante (Final Fantasy IV) vs Wraith (Valkyrie Profile)
Will wait on Wraith explanations. EDIT: Sure I'll bite.
Seymour Guado (Final Fantasy X) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)
Not a huge fan of Seymour's quad-casting form upon reflection, but it doesn't really matter since Seymour Flux has this one easily anyway.

Heavy

Alfina (Grandia III) vs Ike (Fire Emblem Series)
Any reason infinite paralysis hax doesn't do its dirty work?  Vaguely 3-13esque...
Alicia (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Kary (Final Fantasy)
VP2 cast apparently immunes Paralysis.
Nina (Breath of Fire) vs Snow Villiers (Final Fantasy XIII)
Nina's ability to pressure Snow is non-existent.  Equip some Hold resistance, turtle 'till ice motorcycles.
EDIT: See Elf, Nina has just barely enough pressure to get a good luck string before ice motorcycles most likely.
Strago Magus (Final Fantasy VI) vs Clarissa Arwin (Wild ARMs XF)
Clarissa only needs 1 Rob Turn to hit to win with 2x Sacrifice I believe.  (She obviously loses horribly if that Rob Turn misses.)

Middle

Blanca (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Alexia Lynn Elesius (Wild ARMs XF)
Healing & doubles.  (Okay Alexia eventually gets faster as the fight goes on and she gets more tired which makes her faster yes this makes sense, but not nearly quickly enough.)

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Alfred Schroedinger (Wild ARMs 3)
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Rinoa Heartlily (Final Fantasy VIII)
Solidly 2HKOs, Nameless Dance gets 1 shot off at best.
Milich Oppenheimer (Suikoden) vs Randi (Secret of Mana)
Milich is allegedly slightly below average speed.  When two blandish sluggers fight, that extra hit counts for a lot.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 05:13:16 PM by SnowFire »

Cmdr_King

  • Strong and Full of Love
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5581
  • Is Gay
    • View Profile
    • CK Blog
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 05:13:59 AM »
I dunno how this didn't end up transferred, but the Bestiary is on GFAQs so here's Wraith's entry for easy reference.


MAJOR BOSS: Wraith - 100000 HP  Weak: none  Drop: Magic Charm

"Eeheeheeheehee!"

Went first. 10 RDM, 300 RST. Sometimes blocks or dodges.
4884 STR:
Attack - 1 hit of 0.8x to one
Whisp - 17 hits of 0.2x to one, unblockable
13000 INT: (WTF?)
Stone Torch, Lightning Bolt, Prismatic Missile
Gravity Blessing [Used on turn 2, and if above half HP on every turn
divisible by 4]

Wraith's INT is godly, and he likes to show you this. His regular
spells except Stone Torch will almost certainly score KOs, but they're
not the threats. What is? Well, you get one turn to attack before he
gives your party one hell of a bitchslap with Gravity Blessing, and
he'll do it again often if you survive. His Gravity Blessing is without
a doubt the best multitarget attack in the entire (non-SG) game for the
time you fight him; it laughs at mage Resist, and neither outstanding
HP nor lightning defence will save you. Both, however... then you have
a chance. It might be safest to just kill him in the one round before
the Great Magic hits, but even with his low defences this is not a
trivial task, as his HP is easily the best up to this point. Good luck,
he's almost as nasty as Hel Servants. Unless, of course, you just use
the Holy Water of Mithra on him for a OHKO.
CK: She is the female you
Snow: Speaking of Sluts!

<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8151
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 05:26:42 AM »
EDIT: Wraith has an entry in the VP1 stat topic. I don't nominate things without that! The bestiary is largely a c/p of the stat topic entry with things like assumed HP and damage estimates stripped out. For reference compared to what CK just posted, average PC HP is 21000, Prismatic Missile is 47000, and Gravity Blessing is 57000. (Yep.) How much you respect 100k HP in chapter 6 of VP could also certainly impact the match, huuuge ymmv with VP bosses. I'd see him a bit below Surt/Loki for HP.


Godlike

Claude Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Jeremy Non (Wild ARMs 4): Probably dodges enough to get a turn.
Rubicante (Final Fantasy IV) vs Wraith (Valkyrie Profile): Slightly faster in the contest of gross elemental overkill. Both probably 2HKO each other.
Seymour Guado (Final Fantasy X) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series): uhhh yuri forms give me headaches. SH2 loses horribly. SH1 has a shot certainly... that's a close quickdraw (although Seymour may win going second). Oh well, think I vote on SH2 these days anyway. And as Snowfire observes, Flux beats either form (for all that I'm certain I'm an Omnis voter).
Cid Raines (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV): Think he can turtle through what Ryu4 does, but by no means certain. May look at this more closely later.

Heavy

Alfina (Grandia III) vs Ike (Fire Emblem Series): I think.
Alicia (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Kary (Final Fantasy): Equips paralysis and slowly grinds this out. Kary does juuust over 80% to the slightly below average durability so she'll win in about 25-30 turns, but Alicia should win before then even with reduced damage.
Nina (Breath of Fire) vs Snow Villiers (Final Fantasy XIII): Idle then Hold a lot. Not sure I see Daze resistance stopping hold (it's more like sleep, and BoF1 does have both), but even if it does, Nina just needs a decent string of luck with the move (Snow can't get immunity, and resistance comes at a reasonably heavy durability hit).
Strago Magus (Final Fantasy VI) vs Clarissa Arwin (Wild ARMs XF): OHKOs anyway, though sure, Rob Turn if you don't see that.

Middle

Blanca (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Alexia Lynn Elesius (Wild ARMs XF): Alexia 2HKOs (heal-lock with physical, even). Alexia starts out at 59% Blanca speed but gains about 3.25% each turn she gets. Still... wait, Red Comet strikes a weakness. So Blanca has a 2HKO, and only needs one doubleturn to win, which he gets easily enough.
Riki (SaGa Frontier) vs Peter (Shining Force II): Peter has doubles/crits/etc., doubt he has any trouble with this.
Cleo (Suikoden) vs Kimahri (Final Fantasy X): Kimahri halves fire which reduces the kaboom threat... means Cleo only has a 4HKO or so. Kimahri can slow this down further with Lancet spam, so it'll be a close race. Kneejerk Cleo (it helps that Kimarhi does have to give up a bit of HP to resist fire), but could be argued.
Belenus (Valkyrie Profile) vs Etna (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness): Looks like Belenus may just kill turn 2, while Etna needs three. If he also needs three this is a cointoss pending my deciding how to tiebreak here. Would probably go for Belenus anyway because I have more respect for VP evade than Disgaea.

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Alfred Schroedinger (Wild ARMs 3): Oh dear.
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Rinoa Heartlily (Final Fantasy VIII): Don't think I'm missing anything here?
Milich Oppenheimer (Suikoden) vs Randi (Secret of Mana): Milich 4HKOs the slightly tanky Randi and is slower, yeah. Milich himself is 1.3 pdur so it depends how I see Randi's damage. By the stat topic he has a 4HKO (= 5HKO against Milich) and loses. But if I see L6 as too high for lategained magic spells (and I almost surely do) Randi's damage rises a bit. Uhh, abstain.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 05:29:35 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

OblivionKnight

  • Boom! Big reveal: I'm a pickle. What do you think about that?
  • Global Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2999
  • I'm Pickle Rick!
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2012, 05:39:53 AM »
Godlike

Jeremy Non (Wild ARMs 4) - Boss vs. non-boss
Rubicante (Final Fantasy IV) - Eh...close.
Seymour Guado (Final Fantasy X) - Boss vs. non-boss
Cid Raines (Final Fantasy XIII) - Boss vs. non-boss

Heavy

Alfina (Grandia III) - Just...slightly faster.  Paralysis.  Otherwise, Ike mauls her.
Kary (Final Fantasy) - Alicia has no unique equipment...thus dies terribly.
Snow Villiers (Final Fantasy XIII) - Eh.
Strago Magus (Final Fantasy VI) - Don't think she can kill before Sour Mouth.

Middle

Blanca (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) - Yeah.
Peter (Shining Force II) - Godlike damage vs. a cast with few unique equips
Kimahri (Final Fantasy X) - Bit of a fail-off with my views here...blah.  Sad he wins.
Etna (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) - Loves her boss form, or this would be pathetic.

Light

Alfred Schroedinger (Wild ARMs 3) - Boss vs. non-boss
Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters) - Lol.
Rinoa Heartlily (Final Fantasy VIII) - Yeah.
Randi (Secret of Mana) - Unique equipment!
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4950
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2012, 07:38:53 AM »
Elf: Re Nina/Snow & status blockers, it's a little weird because I'm not as harsh about the stat penalties for status blockers as you are, notably in that the stat penalty should be all-around for all the potential storebought equips so it's more like -2% to all stats rather than -20% to the stat you want most.  Anyway...  Nina 13HKOs Sentinel Snow when Snow isn't using any [X]Guard abilities, and this might upgrade to an 11HKO when holding Sentinel in the defense average against Snow + stat blocking penalty.  Idle is pretty bad outside of specific situations (IIRC, it's like -20 speed except when it's bugged a la vs. Tyr where it sets max speed to 0 speed), usual "look elsewhere for TB speed respect as far as getting doubles" on an already subtle effect....  yeah that might give Nina an extra doubleturn every ~15 turns or so to me, or every 10 turns or so if she uses ACT up on herself as well (similarly subtle effect I believe).  Hold lasts "from 1 to 5 turns" but even if Snow is held to unupgraded lvl. 1 accessories (which will have less of a stat cut) he can get 66% resistance to Hold via stacking it, meaning Nina needs to spend all her time re-applying Hold and not actually performing offense.  Whenever she misses too much, Mediguard starts undoing her work.  If Snow gets upgraded lvl. 1 accessories, he can stack up to 84% resistance now, and even if he eats a bigger stat hit, it won't matter since Nina has to get really lucky to maintain a Hold lock.  She has time I guess but two 15% chances in a row + long hold durations to get a 7-9 hit string off are pretty slim.

That said it is a fair point that BoF1 has separate Sleep & Paralysis, so while I'd normally let Daze resistance cover both, there's a solid argument it shouldn't here, and a holistic argument that stall-into-Summon is obnoxious and not something that'd ever be done in-game, so.

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12983
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 11:45:44 AM »
Godlike

Claude Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Jeremy Non (Wild ARMs 4) - Should be able to dodge at least once, might not even have to.
Rubicante (Final Fantasy IV) vs Wraith (Valkyrie Profile) - Eeeew. Both 2HKO each other, Rubi is faster.
Seymour Guado (Final Fantasy X) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series) - sure

Heavy

Alfina (Grandia III) vs Ike (Fire Emblem Series) - I suppose Ike9 doesn't one-round? Yeah.
Alicia (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Kary (Final Fantasy) - um wow
Strago Magus (Final Fantasy VI) vs Clarissa Arwin (Wild ARMs XF) - lol ohko

Middle

Blanca (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Alexia Lynn Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) - Weakness-hitting!
Riki (SaGa Frontier) vs Peter (Shining Force II) - I s'pose. Riki is horrendously slow when not healing.
Cleo (Suikoden) vs Kimahri (Final Fantasy X) - Yeah, I guess.

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Alfred Schroedinger (Wild ARMs 3) - Jesus -fuck-.
Jogurt (Shining Force) vs Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters) - Wow.
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Rinoa Heartlily (Final Fantasy VIII) - Probably 2HKOs, hell, so doesn't need to.
Milich Oppenheimer (Suikoden) vs Randi (Secret of Mana) - I s'pose. I feel like L6 is fine for me.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8151
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 03:17:59 PM »
Quote
Idle is pretty bad outside of specific situations

Idle is blind as well as Slow and never wears off, so Snow is missing half of his attacks forever.

Also, you're aware that Nina regenerates MP every time she attacks, right? So she doesn't simply lose ground every time Hold fails to stick.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

DjinnAndTonic

  • Genie and Potion with Alcoholic Undertones
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 6942
  • "When you wish upon a bar~"
    • View Profile
    • RPGDL Wiki
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 05:05:08 PM »
Belenus (Valkyrie Profile) vs Etna (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness): Looks like Belenus may just kill turn 2, while Etna needs three. If he also needs three this is a cointoss pending my deciding how to tiebreak here. Would probably go for Belenus anyway because I have more respect for VP evade than Disgaea.

Doesn't come up often because Dis1 physicals are like 30% normal damage, but against a regular melee type like Belenus, Etna's getting a counter off. Should push her solidly into the two-round kill.

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12983
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2012, 05:12:51 PM »
Well, going off Dhyer's numbers, Chaos Impact x 2 + Etna physical = 105% to average... against Belenus' 110% PC HP. Yeah, even before factoring evasion, that's not cutting it, she'd need two counters.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2202
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2012, 05:28:53 PM »
Godlike

Claude Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Jeremy Non (Wild ARMs 4) - Bye Jeremy.
Rubicante (Final Fantasy IV) vs Wraith (Valkyrie Profile) - I'll bite.

Heavy
Nope!

Middle
Riki (SaGa Frontier) vs Peter (Shining Force II) - Riki speed when not healing, kind of a thing yeah.
Cleo (Suikoden) vs Kimahri (Final Fantasy X) - Sure.
Belenus (Valkyrie Profile) vs Etna (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) - Belenus really does not like the fact that I don't let VP1 characters store energy.

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Alfred Schroedinger (Wild ARMs 3) - UM.
Jogurt (Shining Force) vs Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters) - Jogurt.
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Rinoa Heartlily (Final Fantasy VIII)
Milich Oppenheimer (Suikoden) vs Randi (Secret of Mana) - L6 for spells probably works for me.  If not it probably doesn't end up making a significant enough difference to tilt this.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4950
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2012, 08:10:10 PM »
If Snow wins, it isn't by wearing down Nina's MP or by ever attacking (although...  I'm unsure if Idle is THAT good a blind, it's obviously great against Myria but that might just be the bugged case?  Dunno if it's good against average speed), but rather via Mediguard spam -> Summon, so the Blind isn't really relevant.  I probably let FF13 characters enter with 2 SP so while it takes forever to get to 3 SP via turtling, it's not quite as forever-y a forever.

Jo'ou Ranbu

  • Social Justice Steampunk Literature Character
  • New Age Retro Fucking Hipster
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 12983
  • Ah'm tuff fer mah size!
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2012, 08:17:33 PM »
Idle makes Myria miss about 50% of the time. There's more potent, but it's quite solid for what it is. Apparently, Zog yields similar results.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Talaysen

  • Ara ara~
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2595
  • Ufufu~
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2012, 08:47:18 PM »
Godlike

Claude Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Jeremy Non (Wild ARMs 4)
Rubicante (Final Fantasy IV) vs Wraith (Valkyrie Profile)
Seymour Guado (Final Fantasy X) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)
Cid Raines (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV)

Heavy

Alfina (Grandia III) vs Ike (Fire Emblem Series)
Alicia (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Kary (Final Fantasy)
Nina (Breath of Fire) vs Snow Villiers (Final Fantasy XIII)
Strago Magus (Final Fantasy VI) vs Clarissa Arwin (Wild ARMs XF)

Middle

Blanca (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Alexia Lynn Elesius (Wild ARMs XF)
Riki (SaGa Frontier) vs Peter (Shining Force II)
Cleo (Suikoden) vs Kimahri (Final Fantasy X)
Belenus (Valkyrie Profile) vs Etna (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness)

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Alfred Schroedinger (Wild ARMs 3)
Jogurt (Shining Force) vs Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters)
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Rinoa Heartlily (Final Fantasy VIII)
Milich Oppenheimer (Suikoden) vs Randi (Secret of Mana)

Nephrite

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2052
  • President of the Great United States of America
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2012, 09:24:47 PM »
Idle makes Myria miss about 50% of the time. There's more potent, but it's quite solid for what it is. Apparently, Zog yields similar results.

Is it actually because of a blind effect or because ACT impacts hit rate?

:snesmechanics:

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8151
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2012, 11:46:23 PM »
Idle has a significant hit-down effect on everything (~50%), no bigger on Myria than on anyone else. (Well, it doesn't affect ITE attacks, but duh.)

And yeah, Snowfire, I give noooo judgement calls for the FF13 strategy that gets you 0-stars (and doom'd by some bosses) in-game, so they start at 0 TP for me. Really doubt Nina has trouble overcoming Snow before then.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Luther Lansfeld

  • Global Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5066
  • Her will demands it.
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2012, 07:05:45 AM »
Godlike

Claude Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Jeremy Non (Wild ARMs 4)
Rubicante (Final Fantasy IV) vs Wraith (Valkyrie Profile)- Don't give a shit.
Seymour Guado (Final Fantasy X) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)
Cid Raines (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV)

Heavy

Alfina (Grandia III) vs Ike (Fire Emblem Series)
Alicia (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Kary (Final Fantasy)
Nina (Breath of Fire) vs Snow Villiers (Final Fantasy XIII)
Strago Magus (Final Fantasy VI) vs Clarissa Arwin (Wild ARMs XF)

Middle

Blanca (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Alexia Lynn Elesius (Wild ARMs XF)
Riki (SaGa Frontier) vs Peter (Shining Force II)
Cleo (Suikoden) vs Kimahri (Final Fantasy X)
Belenus (Valkyrie Profile) vs Etna (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness)

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics)
vs Alfred Schroedinger (Wild ARMs 3)
Jogurt (Shining Force) vs Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters)
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Rinoa Heartlily (Final Fantasy VIII)
Milich Oppenheimer (Suikoden) vs Randi (Secret of Mana)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 03:47:58 PM by Ciato »
When humanity stands strong and people reach out for each other...
There’s no need for gods.

http://backloggery.com/ciato

Profile pic by (@bunneshi) on twitter!

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9631
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2012, 08:11:19 AM »
odlike

Claude Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Jeremy Non (Wild ARMs 4)[/b]- OHKO.
Rubicante (Final Fantasy IV) vs Wraith (Valkyrie Profile)
Seymour Guado (Final Fantasy X) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)- Don't think Seymour can manage the OHKO.
Cid Raines (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV)- Think Punk at the right time pushes RYu over the edge, but open to arguements here.

Heavy

Alfina (Grandia III) vs Ike (Fire Emblem Series)- Alfina is garbage without SP.
Alicia (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Kary (Final Fantasy)- Abstain.
Nina (Breath of Fire) vs Snow Villiers (Final Fantasy XIII)- Sentinal until summon. Nina might get a lucky string of turns to kill Snow before that, but it feels unlikely to me.
Strago Magus (Final Fantasy VI) vs Clarissa Arwin (Wild ARMs XF)

Middle

Blanca (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Alexia Lynn Elesius (Wild ARMs XF)
Riki (SaGa Frontier) vs Peter (Shining Force II)
Cleo (Suikoden) vs Kimahri (Final Fantasy X)
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8151
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2012, 03:39:43 PM »
Okay, breaking down Nina/Snow further:

Atk-Up Nina does 60% average, i.e. 24% damage. It's probably a bit higher with Luck-Up, but this isn't tested so I'll ignore it. With Ag-Up and Idle, there's a speed difference. I'll go with Snowfire's suggestion that it's 10% (personally, I see each effect as worth 10%, so in total it's a 23% speed spread factoring in that Nina is +1 from average to start).

Mediguard restores 20% max HP per use. Snow has 2.23 durability in Sentinel, or 1.90 if you factor Sentinel into the durability averages (I don't fully, since they don't spend all their time there. Not sure what I do). So he regens effectively 38-44% of an average bar of HP each turn. Of course Mediguard is slow as anything so anyone easily gets a second turn in (sometimes a third, probably. I'll ignore this), though that one would probably be against the defensive stance itself so does only 35% of the original damage. So combining her two attacks and baking in the 10% speed boost, Nina does 39% every Snow round, which almost outpaces the regen with no help from status whatsoever. I want to emphasise this, because I think people sometimes kneejerk overrate Mediguard. Nina the first comes close to overcoming it.

So this is where Hold comes in. I should note at this point that if you assign almost ANY stat penalty, Snow's going to lose this. The strongest FF13 accessories are defensive, unequipping one causes you to take 18% more damage. And one accessory will NOT be good enough. 45% hold resistance makes the move easily worthwhile for Nina, since it lasts three turns on average and she'll only need two to make it land. At the very least a second accessory will be required, at which point there are two stat hits. Even if you take the lowest assumptions I've listed so far (only 10% speed, Sentinel defensive not held against average at all), if you see each stat hit as being even +7% to durability, Snow loses (again, the actual number is +18%, so even if you half this to reflect "well half the time you'd equip for offence instead, I hit that too", not good enough).

Of course, even with two accessories, Nina likely still can use Hold! That's 70% resistance, which means the move is a push as to whether it's "worth" the time. But Nina can wait for a lucky string. Remember, she's 7HKOing Snow at base. All she needs is to hit Idle, have it last at least 4 turns, then hit Idle again immediately, and have it last the same duration. There's about a 5% chance of this every time she lands the first Idle. Not terribly likely, but in a long match it's going to happen, and that's just one path to victory... she could also land three shorter ones in a row, or let Snow sneak in an extra turn to start regenning (one miss only lets Snow get half his normal regen in, though, remember, which is only about 10% of his health), but have the Hold chain lasts a bit longer otherwise, etc. This is without even considering stat penalties to durability!

With three accessories it's rougher. I guess IF you let daze immunity cover Hold AND you don't assign any stat penalty for statusblockers AND you don't see the speed gap after the two buffs as terribly wide AND you don't factor in sentinel into the durability curve, Snow's got this.

And all of this is assuming Nina can't just tank through a summon, anyway. (I assume she probably can't, but I've never looked at them closely in the DL, and she's decently equipped to do so if anyone can, between ice halving and immunity-ignoring blind.)

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Nephrite

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2052
  • President of the Great United States of America
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2012, 03:54:41 PM »
Just out of curiosity, do you have any idea how good Nina's defense buff is?

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4950
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2012, 05:12:08 PM »
Okay, okay, vote changed to Nina. ;-)  Mostly I forgot Atk-Up existed, which while far too minor a boost to matter in the average match, probably does up Nina's 11HKO to something more like a 9-10HKO here, and that means she might get away with just 2 lucky strings + missing a Hold isn't quite as calamitous.  I do agree that Mediguard's healing is "slow" so even when Paralysis wears off and Nina misses, Snow can't necessarily get THAT much healing in if Nina can manage to stick her 2nd Hold attempt.  (If Nina misses twice in a row then most likely she's losing a bunch of work, but she has time to work her way through those cases and get to the good luck.)

Off the top of my head, reasonable defaults in FF13 are physical damage, magical damage, physical damage resistance, magical damage resistance, and HP buffing (I don't think the combination phys / magical resistance accessory is storebought / legal?  Could be wrong though), so it'd be a -20% penalty to however much of a stat boost the best "legal" version of the storebought accessory is if I really wanted to math out my own interp.  That said as noted since Nina's damage is bad every little bit counts for keeping the number of hits in a successful chain lowish, and I think I lean toward the "unupgraded lvl. 1" accessory interp which makes Snow's status blocking a bit more suspect.

VySaika

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2836
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2012, 06:00:02 PM »
Godlike

Claude Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Jeremy Non (Wild ARMs 4) - OHKOs, doesn't get OHKOd.
Rubicante (Final Fantasy IV) vs Wraith (Valkyrie Profile) - Uh...hmm. Whoever goes first wins this, and I think I see VP bosses that go first as being essentially average speed, just winning tiebreaks. 101%, or something. And I think Rubi's faster then that, so.
Seymour Guado (Final Fantasy X) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series) - I allow formchoice, so.
Cid Raines (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV)

Heavy

Alfina (Grandia III) vs Ike (Fire Emblem Series)
Alicia (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Kary (Final Fantasy) - She can block the status and doesn't get OHKOd, which is generally a win for VP2 Heal.
Nina (Breath of Fire) vs Snow Villiers (Final Fantasy XIII) - I'll trust elfmath
Strago Magus (Final Fantasy VI) vs Clarissa Arwin (Wild ARMs XF)

Middle

Blanca (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Alexia Lynn Elesius (Wild ARMs XF)
Riki (SaGa Frontier) vs Peter (Shining Force II) - Sure.
Cleo (Suikoden) vs Kimahri (Final Fantasy X) - Evade and Counter only helps against physicals.
Belenus (Valkyrie Profile) vs Etna (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness) - Sure

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Alfred Schroedinger (Wild ARMs 3) - I think Chemist can go in here unarmed, and win with Auto-Potion + punches, just for the lulz.
Jogurt (Shining Force) vs Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters) - Never finished SN, but I'm somehow confident on voting here. Dunno why.
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Rinoa Heartlily (Final Fantasy VIII) - Sure.
Milich Oppenheimer (Suikoden) vs Randi (Secret of Mana) - Poor Randi. SoM is clearly based on DnD. Magic? Congrats, you're a heavy. No magic? Rot in light.
<%Laggy> we're open minded individuals here
<+RandomKesaranPasaran> are we
<%Laggy> no not really.

<Tide|NukicommentatoroptionforF> Hatbot is a pacifist

Lance

  • Groovy~
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1061
    • View Profile
    • My Foxkei profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2012, 04:50:58 AM »
So...who won last week?

Godlike
Claude Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Jeremy Non (Wild ARMs 4)
Rubicante (Final Fantasy IV) vs Wraith (Valkyrie Profile)
Seymour Guado (Final Fantasy X) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)
Cid Raines (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV)

Heavy
Alfina (Grandia III) vs Ike (Fire Emblem Series)
Alicia (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Kary (Final Fantasy)
Nina (Breath of Fire) vs Snow Villiers (Final Fantasy XIII)

Middle
Riki (SaGa Frontier) vs Peter (Shining Force II)
Cleo (Suikoden) vs Kimahri (Final Fantasy X)
Belenus (Valkyrie Profile) vs Etna (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness)

Light
Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Alfred Schroedinger (Wild ARMs 3)
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Rinoa Heartlily (Final Fantasy VIII)
Milich Oppenheimer (Suikoden) vs Randi (Secret of Mana)

Dhyerwolf

  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4736
  • Here it comes, the story, of mankind's final glory
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2012, 05:27:26 AM »
Godlike

Claude Kenni (Star Ocean: The Second Story) vs Jeremy Non (Wild ARMs 4)
Rubicante (Final Fantasy IV) vs Wraith (Valkyrie Profile)
Seymour Guado (Final Fantasy X) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)- Yuri 1 2HKOs, Seymour does not get focusing.
Cid Raines (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Ryu (Breath of Fire IV)- Cid basically loses to me against high single damage. Stardrop->Might x 5->Shadowwalk. (Hell, doesn't even need the Stardrop, but this forces Cid to waste multiple turns to not even fail). If Fulrugation hits Cid this is even funnier. I guess you could say that Cid just stays in 90% damage reduction form though, so I guess he'll end up winning that way. Cid has to be one of my least favorite duellers considering that he basically depends all on stunning him, and if you do in game, he is Light.

Heavy

Alfina (Grandia III) vs Ike (Fire Emblem Series)- Um, hmm. Alfina is a horrible, horrible Heavy, but...can she spoil here, albeit barely. That said, I think she loses to Ike 9 if one goes by that (at least with 100 SP) since she does not 3HKO.
Alicia (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Kary (Final Fantasy)- DoS
Nina (Breath of Fire) vs Snow Villiers (Final Fantasy XIII)- No thanks
Strago Magus (Final Fantasy VI) vs Clarissa Arwin (Wild ARMs XF)

Middle

Blanca (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Alexia Lynn Elesius (Wild ARMs XF)
Riki (SaGa Frontier) vs Peter (Shining Force II)
Cleo (Suikoden) vs Kimahri (Final Fantasy X)
Belenus (Valkyrie Profile) vs Etna (Disgaea: Hour of Darkness)

Light

Chemist (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Alfred Schroedinger (Wild ARMs 3)
Jogurt (Shining Force) vs Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters)
Dancer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Rinoa Heartlily (Final Fantasy VIII)
Milich Oppenheimer (Suikoden) vs Randi (Secret of Mana)- Gut
...into the nightfall.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4950
    • View Profile
Re: RPGDL 2012 Season 3 Week 2: Mostly Princesses
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2012, 05:51:59 AM »
I agree that I'm not a huge fan on how Cid translates, but unless I'm totally crazy, doesn't Elf's topic indicate Cid can do nothing *but* Guard in the damage reduction form?  Anyway, assuming the damage halving & Guard don't stack, a pure stall strategy from Cid yields an effective 53 PCHP from the stat topic (5.3 / .1).  Apparently Cid gets his Doom off in 23 minutes = 172 turns, sooo 172/53 = MP-less dragons gone Ryu needs to spam .31 PCHP a round.  Stat topic claims his physical is above average damage, so don't think that's an issue.  (Also, if Cid is tempted to go full stall, I would certainly let opponents be able to stagger Cid & boost the chain gauge in exchange for Cid's HP not being held against the same.  Also Cid deserves to eat an arbitrary "translates over-strongly to the DL" boss HP penalty in my book but ignoring that for now.)

If the damage halving & Guard stack, then that's disgusting and I probably would force Cid not to spam the move since that kind of intentional AI strategy would be the worst fight design evar.