Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 104

[Dhyerwolf]

I guess it probably matters more on hitting enemies (hi CT fight). Although...yeah, another reason to not see Orlandu's breaks getting enemies defense as leads to some absurd things on this floor (Orlandu 2HKOing the whole CT fight)

[SnowFire]

Well, for the Margaret fight, I don't think it matters too much.  Protect & Shell spam (& Giant's Drink spam if allowed) should suffice to make Energy Charge'd Megioloan survivable, unless it somehow ignores Rakukaja type effects as well.

Team Pyro vs. Nyarlathotep, Nyx Avatar, Erebus (P3:FES) and Izanami
Team Pyro will be playing it slow here with Mix buff spam at first.  Unperishable Black -> Erebus / Izanami damage can sweep the team even through Shell...  but that's without an MT healing turn in the middle, and Team Pyro will be Hasted.  (Something which Pyro is incidentally weirdly weak on, Hilda/Eiko are the only ones with proper MT healing at this point, since Cure2 from Bartz just sucks MT at this point.  Of course Marco can Turn Shift on over to the proper person, so it's really more like 3 possibilities.)  Jean's White Dragon Protect spam can also pre-emptively complicate that strategy, although Jean also fears Izanami's Silence.  Team Pyro's offense is also really bad here since Meteor will wake up Nyx Avatar and everyone else's damage is horrible, so uh Bartz is X-Magicing ancient Red Magic in Bolt2's in the super-super-aftergame, yes this is a winning strategy (well when done 5 times, maybe).  Also insert more Slow antihype, but the Hastega still means the turnsplit favors Team Pyro.

Anyway.  Team Nyarlie's strategy while in form 1 is probably something like Nyarlie spams ID to revive-lock Hilda and knock Haste or buffs off Eiko, Izanami sets up Stagnant Air-> Silence if it'd help -> otherwise Mind Charge'd Megidolaons hoping that someone else can knock off any White Dragon Protect Shields first if the turn order lines up right (possible, Marco can't be everywhere).  Erebus throws out MT damage to force occasional MT heals and hopes to get lucky on a 12% chance of Freeze or Shock, which is turn skip + autocrits allowing a One More (but only for ST damage).  12% MT is actually not bad, and this team really does have the capability to interfere with Team Pyro; inconvenient deaths & statuses can suddenly drop his defenses.  That said...  how much time does Team Evil really have?  Once Bartz buffs up the team, he can throw out 5x Bolt2 or whatever on Erebus, who only has ~4.2 PCHP.  Even if Bolt2 is only .15 PCHP, with Haste & Marco Turn Shifts, that can fall pretty fast.  Once they lose that source of potential fight-upending MT statuses and damage, they can work on Nyarlie, who does have the dispel in form 2... 

...actually that kind of is an issue.  Dispel -> Nyarlie + Izanami damage against no buffs with no intervening healing is quite fatal.  However...  if Eiko really does have both Protect & SHell in one shiny MT package, that just means Nyarlie is Dispel locked, though.  Unlike Bartz who can't just Mix for everyone every time.  Also I don't think dispel would really work against FF5 level-increasing stuff, and Pyro has reminded me in chat that Bartz has the obscure Dragon Power mix to increase his level...  well if it isn't naturally lvl. 99 already.  Which speeds up Bartz's clock some by buffing his damage (he's surely at least lvl. 80 by now though, so probably just one use.).  So yeah, kill Nyarlie2, Eiko accessory hype saves the day.

Izanami2 is reasonably scary, actually...  silence -> Summons to Yomi is still bad even if it might only get 2 characters, Debilitate is trouble and buys some more time, Hell's Judgment gets past the Protect/Shell spam...  but I'm not sure she can actually push through, since her AI apparently limits her from Mind Charge -> World's End on the same turn.

Nyx is scary at 25% health for Night Queen spam, but I presume that team Pyro carefully chips to that level, and more to the point Team Pyro can use Meteo when it's just Nyx, so smashing through the limit shouldn't be too bad at all.  On top of it all, Pyro does have his one Reset I'd allow in a very flavorful fight to use it in, so even if things go wrong in the scariest initial part of the fight - Erebus getting lucky with Shock say - as long as Bartz can be fed a turn and/or revived before the party wipes, there can be a Reset.

However.  I really have to question if this set is really the type to eat Thousand Curses spam to save Bartz, who is kind of a git by now, strutting around like he's a god or something.  I guess I'll vote pass anyway, but I really see Hilda wandering off for sure, and Bartz probably completed the sidequest in such a way as to make Marco hate him and plot his demise, so Marco ain't helping, and Eiko's just a kid.  That leaves uh Jean who might be willing to take a curse for Bartz.  Maybe all you need is just one good friend in the end.

[dude789]

Pyro fails, others pass.

[Pyro]

Any reason I fail, Dude? Maybe I can change your mind. (totally ruining my streak)

Still unsure on team Dune.

[Dunefar]

All teams pass. Pyro's analysis is more or less right on them.

[Pyro]

For dune.

Zog and Sara do about 4 PCHP collectively (damage summed /300 avg HP *4.5 since Tir halves elements) /.9 for ssl.

Teams healing is probably 2.7-3 PCHP per round between Priest/Maxim/Orlandu.  So they get overwhelmed but have doubles. As far as the boss durability goes... the team will be using ST damage and not too much so it would take forever. I don't think the resources hold, so fail for now.

[SnowFire]

I missed the part of Unified Strength that doubles the HP pools.  This means that the FFT Lucavi fight is now very, very dangerous indeed, as they can all survive to throw around nasty status.  Hilariously enough, statusing out everyone but Orlandu would mean Team Dune wins, but I presume Orlandu has enough holes in his status blocking that this isn't happening.  Even if the team somehow survives the fight...  yeah, I really can't see there being enough healing to keep up with HP-doubled Zog & Sara HP combined, which is going to be some totally stupid amount.  I don't even let Zog spam his MT Char but ack.  Again, if the team had some legal way to status ITSELF out, then Orlandu could just solo, but they don't, so.  Fail for Team Dune.

EDIT: Dur see Dhyer.  Oh well, the Lucavi still have MT to start grinding down the team's resources some with Bahamut / Clops although they still die fast enough even with the HP doubling that it shouldn't be TOO bad.

[Dhyerwolf]

Dune does have SSL, so he does not need to worry about Lucavi status.

[Pyro]

Some of Priest's healing is MT right, and Maxim has Stronger on this floor. Status Symbol Law ain't exactly a help in the last fight though.

But the bigger problem is resources. Probably just loses on account of not having enough of them to pull through the entire floor. That last fight is a major slog to cap it off and may need to be made easier. That requires an awful lot of MT healing to slog through for floor 3. Honestly I think Dune would have taken the Divide&Conquer floor with silly ease by comparison.

On an Unrelated Note:

FF5 Elixers are actually storebought, so Giant Drink's HP doubling hype is a go regardless. That and a Dragon/Holy Breath Mix makes for quite a powerful ST damage kick as it deals damage = CHP (needs a Dragon Fang, which are very common at endgame due to being a 100% drop from a common enemy). That is where ST damage will come from in the last fight (and vs. the Lucavi if it is called for... Holy even hits weakness on Altima for extra 'ow').

Other misc notes:
- Dragon Kiss Mix grants Heavy status which is immunity to Gravity, Some odd forms of ID that otherwise ignore immunity, and Field removal. It also makes it so that temporary statuses are removed nigh instantly (divides the duration by some large number).
- When going for pure offense, the team still has Hilda's buffs too! A 5-turn Mag buff (+30%?) and of course Entrance's 1-attack +150% damage. That combined with her Hastega and Bartz's Meteos is a mean, mean deal of offense even when it gets divided by # of targets, averaging ~40K damage a 'turn' *without* Reset getting involved.
- HP doubling stacks with Protect/Shell for 520% durability before defenses are accounted for on Bartz. Also if Regen is up he doesn't need to waste an action to heal as he will do so fully under Quick just by waiting a second for the regen to work while time is stopped.
- Dragon Kiss Immunity to Field Removal totally owns Thousand Curses. Science > Friendship.

[superaielman]

Q for Pyro: Can't Izanami cause serious trouble with status/summons to Yohm or whatever her uber version of evil smile was called?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

She probably can? It's only available at 50% HP range in the form that can use it, though, and I've gone over and over and over again why 8k HP  at the very end of Persona 4 isn't impressive a durability measure (for starters, I don't see Izanami's second form living through a single Meteor Reset string bare). The first form is immense suck against a full party and takes two turns to even score KOs - the most it can do is spam Silence, and that gets owned by Marco stacking silence immunity+tossing his MT status healing at worst.

[Pyro]

Not an issue at all actually. White Dragon Protect and status healing mean she never gets a chance to status-> summons to Yomi.

That's assuming she even gets a turn in form 2. She will be under a metric assload of offense with hastes and surges and entrances and meteos and Eiko. Also Slow can stack if you do not hype Persona 4 bosses as immune to debuffs in the DL.

Also assuming Life Shield does notimmune the ID, or that it beats out Heavy status too.

And even then? Marco can mock the status probably and my team has 4 revivers she would have to hack through.

[superaielman]

Team Dune | Tir, Orlandu, Maxim, BoF3 Nina and FFT Priest (SSL)
Floor 3a: Unified Strength
**On this floor, party and enemy HP is pooled together and increased by 2x. Status still works as normal in order to knock people out. If someone is fatally statused, likewise if a character is hit with gravity, that health should be removed from the pool.
Team Dune vs. Marle, Lucca, Frog, Robo and Ayla- ID Marle. That removes the biggest threat ot the team's resources. Cid is going in with a Flame Shield for the boss, but Frog doesn't have the magical damage to really threaten him. Maxim also has access to Trick- Orlandu is going tohit like a freight train here.
Team Dune vs. FFT Knight, Samurai, Time Mage and Chemist- Think so. Tricked out Cid with Night sword is just really hard to outrace.  Knight may be able to break Excalibur, but it'll be a couple of turns into the fight- not quick enough.
Team Dune vs. Citan, Billy, Bart and Rico- Holy crap, the Flame Shield's weakness matters here. Think Cid is best off breaking Citan's sword here, that stops him from using Crystal Water and lowers his attack fairly dramatically. Citan is dangerous enough that he should *still* be IDed by Tir after that. Billy can revive Citan, but he won't be able to get his game going with Tir's ID floating around. Maxim should trick Cid, Nina is useless and Priest focuses on healing.
Team Dune vs. Adramelk, Velius and Queklain- SSL owns this fight very, very hard. 
Team Dune vs. Zog and Sara- Flame Shield massively slows down Team Zog's offense. It is a rather large inversion of damage (from 3.5 PC a round to 2.1 PC), and that isn't that far from what Cid is restoring with Night sword per turn. Maxim can lower Zog and Sara's speed with the Iron Helmet IP (-25%), which matters considering how much Cid is carrying the team.

Anyway, pass for Dune. I have my doubts if he passes without the Flame Shield, not without arguing that Tir  IDs Nina/Priest before the final fight or something along those lines.

Keeping the abstain on Pyro, I don't know Marco and FF5 is a game I don't remember well.

[SnowFire]

I'm voting for Team Pyro, but I'd point out that Meteor-Reset is not really a thing against Izanami.  The most dangerous part of the fight is the first part while Erebus is alive, using Reset just to optimize damage makes it *more* likely Pyro will lose in the long run.  Also Meteor spreads out over multiple targets, so is extremely questionable until only one target is left, lest Nyx Avatar be woken up.  I also question the "metric assload of offense" in general as that seems to require hyping Dragon Fang breaths which are ???? for actual damage in a hypothetical aftergame average, and Bartz's fallback after Meteor/Demi/etc. is ancient Red Magic.  (Jean, Curvy Hilda, & Marco all have notably substandard offense themselves, so really only Eiko can help out - assuming Holy is seen as piercing Null Light, which it probably should.)

The better argument is that if Izanami2 is saved for third (only her & Nyx Fool), there won't be any support to knock off White Dragon Protect shields, and Bartz can just Mix to MP-restore Jean, and the team will be Hastega'd & buffed up the wazoo requiring Izanami to spend turns using Dekaja.  But sure, let's say WDP wasn't up, or Silence pierces it (possible), etc.  As Pyro pointed out earlier, the FF5 stat topic says there's a random robe with Silence-blocking, so Bartz / Hilda / Marco all immune the Silence, Eiko + Jean die, and Hilda revives Eiko.  Izanami2 doesn't quite have an MT OHKO against the unbuffed (close), so Bartz & Marco continue the beatdown, perhaps throwing Hastega back up.  She theoretically has Fear -> Summons for ST ID, but Izanami just isn't getting anywhere against Team Pyro aside from perhaps making them spend their MP so much Bartz has to waste more turns restoring it.  THere's also MT damage spam, which will kill Marco, but is answered otherwise by Eiko MT healing + Hilda reviving Marco.

[Pyro]

If Izanami and Nyx are the only ones left it is. perfectly fine to blitz both to kill Izanami and 'wake up' Nyx.

MHP doubling is why breaths do good damage. 'Aftergame averages' can futz with almost anything so best to ignore it and CHP is level dependent anyway.

And Giant Drink is neither dispellable nor does it go away when you get revived. Pretty badass.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I'm voting for Team Pyro, but I'd point out that Meteor-Reset is not really a thing against Izanami.

I used it purely as a measure for her durability. I do agree the way to beat this fight is picking apart each boss separately, especially considering the big names in this fight (Izanami/Nyx) are backloaded with egregious failure for initial forms. In fact, Pyro can't even use any sort of crowd control offense here until at least Erebus and Nyarlie are dead: Izanami 1 has WA4 boss-level HP, so it's dangerously easy to tap her into the second form. Fortunately, the team's got ways around that.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Unsure on other teams, but I've been following the Pyro debate closely, and I'm convinced it's a pass. Holy crap, God!Bartz. And WDP and other PC invincibility moves tend to get pretty high respect from me, so Jean's not even worthless, which just cinches the deal for Pyro.

[Dhyerwolf]

Team Dune | Tir, Orlandu, Maxim, BoF3 Nina and FFT Priest (SSL)
Floor 3a: Unified Strength
**On this floor, party and enemy HP is pooled together and increased by 2x. Status still works as normal in order to knock people out. If someone is fatally statused, likewise if a character is hit with gravity, that health should be removed from the pool.
Team Dune vs. Marle, Lucca, Frog, Robo and Ayla- So think Orlandu missing the double on Robo/Lucca (he's just a hair under 170% speed, they are a hair under 85%). Bust one MP, ID the other. Other three just don't have much MT (Robo's is okay, so he'll get targetted next).

Team Dune vs. FFT Knight, Samurai, Time Mage and Chemist- Well, Breaks. At the very least for Orlandu, have an excellent argument to get around SSL (which lists status, debuffs and ID. Blocking all of these in FFT does not get Breaks). And can aim for the Shield to get a better hit rate. They aren't getting through the team before the Shield is gone. Can also just Magic Break some MP, because there's even less validation for SSL to get that.
Team Dune vs. Citan, Billy, Bart and Rico
Team Dune vs. Adramelk, Velius and Queklain- I'm less sure about everyone just auto-skipping this fight. One of them has Leviathan. If we are assuming that Priest is getting multiple people per spell, then this will be nasty. Even with Bracer, Cid can't get enough to prevent one (or I guess Bahamut is there too). Velius also has a nasty summon with Cyclops. I don't necessarily think that the fight causes issues per se, but it definitely needs to factored in that they will be using a good chunk of MP to get back to full
Team Dune vs. Zog and Sara- This just seems problematic. You have to see SSL get Magic Break, which is a bit questionable to me. Otherwise, there will be healing issue. Priest's healing is not cheap (It also counts on Cure hitting all 5 people?) Gut is tending to say 3 at most. On the other hand, Shelling 3 people. That takes damage down significantly. What approximately is Maxim's healing here? I know that Stronger is 50% at endgame, but no idea here. Guessing he can cast it about 15 times if he uses nothing else, so a lot of the fight may hinge on that.

[superaielman]

Dhyer: According to Neph, broken equipment only lasts for the fight.

[Dhyerwolf]

That helps a little, but it just means that Knight will be tanking Priest's MP instead.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Team Pyro | Bartz, Hilda, Eiko, Jean, Marco (Body Charge)
[Bartz: (Mime) !X-Magic !Mix !Time (Red Mage) (Ninja) (Monk) (Samurai)]
Floor 10: Monad
"Ah, but this wouldn't be any fun if you just lost immediately, would it? Let's see your hopes dashed against the rocks."
*Bartz has Hermes Sandals and Jean has White Dragon Protect
***Ragu loses his first two actions and may not use One Trillion Degrees until the 10th average speed turn.
Team Pyro vs. Lady, Malice Gilbert and Malice Killer - Arguably, Bartz unequips Hermes Shoes here to not eat horrible death. >_> Regardless, Marco is faster than enemies, so Trans-turn, win.
Team Pyro vs. Ragu O Ragola (WA4) - Strange, but I think this is right. Not sure I see Slow working on Ragu, but Meteor x4 is something even he can't survive and I don't quite think he can actually stop Bartz from getting a turn - there's no one he OHKOs in the party without One Trillion Degrees.
Team Pyro vs. Laggy Fantasy Tactics Altima, Queklain & Hashmalum - Yeah. Altima can annoy a fair deal, but Bartz is just too crazy.
Team Pyro vs. Margaret (P4) - 15000 P4 HP at post-Izanami levels? Margaret, your durability sucks in this context (2x PC HP is -awful- for floor 10). Bartz just one-rounds her if he wants, and he could just chip her into danger range+WDP and then heal his MP while the rest of the party manhandles her. Seriously, just about any party can two-round Margaret.
Team Pyro vs. Nyarlathotep, Nyx Avatar, Erebus (P3:FES) and Izanami - This fight is actually rather nasty. Bartz will have to focus his offense entirely on Erebus at first, since he's durable and the MT offense -does- pile up bad (Erebus+Nyarlie alone one-round average with room to spare, Izanami+Erebus scrape the KO), but the team's glad that all of them go before the non-Nyarlathotep opposition - and really, I think Trans-turn likely allows one-rounding here after factoring in Quick. This -will- ruthlessly eat into his MP, however, which slows him down for MP healing. Though... hmmm. White Dragon Protect+Haste+Mix spamming the first few rounds lets Pyro avoid one-rounding as well, so he's actually in good shape to focus on Izanami after Erebus dies, and I -think- Carbuncle on Eiko can have MT Shell, which ensures survival for a turn (also, Snowfire, Megido spells hit defenses and ram into Rakukaja's damage reduction just fine. They just ignore Makarakarn, which is spell reflection. Of course, since WDP blocks -all- damage in Lunar 2, I consider it to own Megidolaon too). Once -this- is taken care of, gently poke Izanami, stallstallstall until her second form, then one-round her frail ass. Once this is taken care of, Bartz can go ballistic with Surge'd, Entrance'd Meteors on Nyarlathothep, downright MELTING his HP while letting Nyx's horrible failure forms advance slowly (they have Izanami 1-level durability until the last one, which has less HP than Takaya. Less HP than Takaya means "horribly overkilled by buffed Bartz offense", she doesn't get a turn to Moonless Gown cheese). This is really weird, but I think it -actually works-. Even if that -does- dent into resources pretty heavily, once Bartz hits the top of his game with Chemist buffs and all the other offensive/defensive measures available, he pretty much leads the battle by its hand (and his team is plenty capable of holding out until he gets there). Kudos, Pyro. 

Team Random | Yuna, Lucian, Shiho, Rune and Mew(MT)
Floor 2b: Magical Mystery
[Mew: Brick Break, Shock Wave, Water Pulse, Aerial Ace]
Team Random vs. FFT Wizard, FF1 Black Wizard, FF5 Black Mage and Vivi - Mew+Rune two-shot the universe. Enjoy.
Team Random vs. Nina1, Nina2 and Nina3 - The Rune and Mew Comedy Hour continues.
Team Random vs. Lemina, Mia, Ronfar, Jessica and Luna - And still.
Team Random vs. Sarah (S3), Cleo and Bernadette - This is horrible. Shiho spoils the hell out of Cleo's threat with Heal being MT and Lucian alone OHKOs Bernadette with three-strike weapons already being available. Rune and Mewtwo aren't as effective, but they're effective enough.
Team Random vs. Lyon and Nergal - The lulz, they don't end.

Team Dune | Tir, Orlandu, Maxim, BoF3 Nina and FFT Priest (SSL)
Floor 3a: Unified Strength
**On this floor, party and enemy HP is pooled together and increased by 2x. Status still works as normal in order to knock people out. If someone is fatally statused, likewise if a character is hit with gravity, that health should be removed from the pool.
Team Dune vs. Marle, Lucca, Frog, Robo and Ayla - Effective HP pool to destroy here is 9.88. This... honestly highlights the problem with this floor. I consider ID to remove a character from the fight, but the best idea here is Orlandu Dark Swording Marle (her defense is so horrible that Orlandu should OHKO the MP pool no problem) and IDing Frog. Due to SSL, Boogie is useless and the remaining PCs just don't really have enough in the way of crowd control now, even with Lucca, and Maxim's healing being MT helps mitigate some of the problems.
Team Dune vs. FFT Knight, Samurai, Time Mage and Chemist - I don't know, honestly. Dhyer's point about MP busting is very valid. Looking at this floor in general, I just don't feel Dune's team is suited to take it on at all - this floor more or less wants you to have amazing crowd control - either through status or through pure damage, preferrably both - and this isn't the party's strong suit.
Team Dune vs. Citan, Billy, Bart and Rico
Team Dune vs. Adramelk, Velius and Queklain
Team Dune vs. Zog and Sara

Team Super | Ted, Zerase, Chemist (MT), Ninja, Tia
Floor 3b: Divide and Conquer
**On this floor, any characters that lose their battles may not be used on the final two fights of the floor. Characters go to the final fights at whatever stats they were when their fight ended.
Ted vs. Guv (no Call Team) - Judgment. Goodbye.
Tia and Chemist vs. Krin and Karn - Holy crap Chemist does have to solo this, doesn't he. And considering the crit rate on Krin+Karn... well, I'm suspecting he gets 2HKOed and killed before winning. ON THE OTHER HAND, this absolutely fails to matter, because...
Zerase and Ninja vs. Rand, Ox and Momo - Zerase OHKOs these losers. The end.
Team Super vs. Barubary - Y'see, this is why it doesn't really matter if Chemist and Tia don't make it. Barubary fails: he either gets OHKOed by Ted or 2HKOed by Zerase L3+Ninja and he sucks at exploiting the team's appaling physical durability spread (HIS PHYSICAL 3HKOS ZERASE UNTIL LOW HP. ZERASE OF THE SUB-YULIE PDUR). Ted alone is enough for healing if it comes to this, though I honestly think they won't need it - Barubary is unlikely to get a single turn.
Team Super vs. Shadow Yukiko - Once again, Ted is enough for healing. Zerase uses her L3 until the prince appears (then drop meteor rain, lololol) and things are dandy. Otherwise, Ted lolohkos if he didn't use Judgment on Baru.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Also, guys, EBC WDP? Shuts down all damage. It's SSS WDP who just protects against magic.