Redoing an old season: S2, W1. With Aeris vs Palmer in a clash of the titans!

[superaielman]

Godlike:

Erim (Lufias) vs Claude (SO2)
Berle (SO2) vs Kuja (FF9)
Menardi (GS) vs Maxim (Lufia 2)
Myria (BoFs) vs Arc (AtLC)

Heavy:

Adel (FF8) vs Solo (DQ4)
Liete (G1) vs Todd (WA3)
Dario  (CC) vs Luc (Suikos)
Alena (DQ4) vs Alhazad (WA1)

Middle:

Mystina (VP1) vs Ramsus (XG)
Tifa (FF7) vs Spar (BoF2)
Antenora (WA2) vs Milda (G1)
Shana (LoD) vs Samus (S3)

Light:

Aeris (FF7) vs Palmer (FF7)
Rena (SO2) vs Brey (DQ4)
Jaro (SF2) vs Gobi (BoF1)
Jean (BoF2) vs Jogurt (SF1)

[superaielman]

Godlike:

Erim (Lufias) vs Claude (SO2)- Splat.
Berle (SO2) vs Kuja (FF9)- Invinciblity handles the flare star counters, I think.
Menardi (GS) vs Maxim (Lufia 2)- It's Menardi.
Myria (BoFs) vs Arc (AtLC)

Heavy:

Adel (FF8) vs Solo (DQ4)- Fendspell.
Liete (G1) vs Todd (WA3)- Better. Todd's more of a Middle.
Dario  (CC) vs Luc (Suikos)- Locks down eaisly enough.
Alena (DQ4) vs Alhazad (WA1)- Alena crits by turn two, which is enough.

Middle:

Mystina (VP1) vs Ramsus (XG)- Slapfight ahoy.
Tifa (FF7) vs Spar (BoF2) - Survives an L1, which is all he has to do.
Antenora (WA2) vs Milda (G1)- Kneejerk. Milda can block one status at least, and she does have a lot of durability.
Shana (LoD) vs Samus (S3)-Think so, Shana has no real way to pressure Samus.

Light:

Aeris (FF7) vs Palmer (FF7)- This is some fight. I don't think Palmer can handle Healing Wind spam though.
Rena (SO2) vs Brey (DQ4)- Reflect and then Chaos.
Jaro (SF2) vs Gobi (BoF1)- There is a difference between being bad and being Gobi.
Jean (BoF2) vs Jogurt (SF1)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Godlike:

Erim (Lufias) vs Claude Kenni (SO2) - Holy -shit- this is ugly. Doesn't Claude like OHKO Erim2?
Berle (SO2) vs Kuja (FF9) - ... this was when Kuja healing got hype, wasn't it. In any case, Metaguard => 3HKO.
Myria (BoFs) vs Arc Eda Ricolne (AtLC) - Holy shit.

Heavy:

Adel (FF8) vs Solo (DQ4) - Fendspell turns Adel into Charmles.
Liete (G1) vs Todd Dukakis (WA3) - Kind of a kneejerk. Todd isn't that good a slugger and an Enclose string should rip into him nicely.
Dario (CC) vs Luc (Suikos) - rofl the shredding
Alena (DQ4) vs Alhazad (WA1) - Depends on whether DQ4o Alena has any sleep resistance, though I suspect even then she might be at a dicey spot, Slow Down makes her horrible. Her critical odds being junk really take a lot of the bite out of her. So yeah, for now, Ally.

Middle:

Mystina (VP1) vs Kahran Ramsus (XG) - MYSTINA IN MIDDLE?
Tifa Lockhart (FF7) vs Spar (BoF2) - Jesus crap Spar and dodging a limit.
Antenora (WA2) vs Milda (G1) - Milda probably misses the 2HKO.
Shana (LoD) vs Samus (S3) - Samus is kinda bad even with that Wind Rune. A C? That doesn't work very well, though at least the healing is fast. It's a good fight, though, since Shana's pressure has some issues too. Will mull it over. EDIT: And actually, things could kinda go wrong for Shana regardless. She has trouble gaining ground even with confusion (Samus could -dodge- or get untimely criticals to pressure her a bit further, which probably tilt things more than the odds of confuse kicking in early). So yeah, probably him.

Light:

Aeris Gainsborough (FF7) vs Palmer (FF7) - Outhealed by Aeris, Palmer. You're simply -amazing-.
Rena Lanford (SO2) vs Brey (DQ4) - Brey's durability is so bad and his status game so unreliable that even Rena may be able to kill relatively fast. Reflect is impressively useless here unless he's using it to stave off status (thus, wasting a turn, Rena has Dispel), Rena probably kills him faster with her physical than Star Flare.
Jaro (SF2) vs Gobi (BoF1) - Jaro, you lucky little scrub.
Ekaru Hoppe du Jean (BoF2) vs Jogurt (SF1) - Jogurt will always be our overlord. ;_;

[Dark Holy Elf]

Godlike:

Erim (Lufias) vs Claude (SO2): Sure.
Berle (SO2) vs Kuja (FF9): Sure.

Heavy:

Adel (FF8) vs Solo (DQ4): Adel's not great even before Fendspell enters the equation.
Liete (G1) vs Todd (WA3): Enclose + light hair on fire
Dario  (CC) vs Luc (Suikos): Fast wind attacks.
Alena (DQ4) vs Alhazad (WA1): I think. Close though.

Middle:

Mystina (VP1) vs Ramsus (XG): uh
Tifa (FF7) vs Spar (BoF2): Spar's about 2/3 average damage, this does not dodge a L2 to me.
Antenora (WA2) vs Milda (G1): Kneejerk. Antenora's a bit far above PCHP which makes Milda sweat a bit due to so much of her damage being in a OPB move, and the status can add up pretty fast.
Shana (LoD) vs Samus (S3): Shana needs to inflict confuse to break the stall (LoD confuse is evil). So she needs to get 4 attacks in human form. Question is, can Samus pressure her enough before then? ... holy shit he fails to 2HKO her. Um. So Shana attack, get attacked, attack, get attacked, transform and heal, wait for detransform... yeah I dunno if she's getting openings here. It's a very difficult match to figure out, maybe I'll do it later this week.

Light:

Aeris (FF7) vs Palmer (FF7): Can probably starve out his resources at worst.
Rena (SO2) vs Brey (DQ4): Man I dunno.
Jaro (SF2) vs Gobi (BoF1): Oh come on.
Jean (BoF2) vs Jogurt (SF1): All the J's.

[superaielman]

-.
Rena Lanford (SO2) vs Brey (DQ4) - Brey's durability is so bad and his status game so unreliable that even Rena may be able to kill relatively fast. Reflect is impressively useless here unless he's using it to stave off status (thus, wasting a turn, Rena has Dispel), Rena probably kills him faster with her physical than Star Flare.

Dispel removes negative statuses, not positive ones on enemies. Noel and Celine have Curse, not Rena.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I thought Anti was the - wait nevermind my SO2 memory sucks sometimes.

[superaielman]

Brey's status is pretty reliable. The problem with it in the DL is that he is so fragile that even light fighters will slug through Chaos easily enough. He also has absolutely no way to really deal with ice defense normally. The problem is that Rena's offense is truly a match for Brey's defense. She clocks in at around 1/5th average damage or so, putting her on par with such offensive titans as Cristo and Red Turnip.  Rena can't resist ice either, which just seals the fight.

Edit: Thank god we raised the light border from 2.5 to 3.0. I was seriously just trying to figure out if Rena and Brey could outslug Aeris, and the combined sadness of that nearly broke my will to live.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Godlike:

Erim (Lufias) vs Claude (SO2)
Berle (SO2) vs Kuja (FF9)
Menardi (GS) vs Maxim (Lufia 2)
Myria (BoFs) vs Arc (AtLC)

Heavy:

Adel (FF8) vs Solo (DQ4)
Liete (G1) vs Todd (WA3)
Dario  (CC) vs Luc (Suikos)
Alena (DQ4) vs Alhazad (WA1)

Middle:

Mystina (VP1) vs Ramsus (XG)
Tifa (FF7) vs Spar (BoF2)
Antenora (WA2) vs Milda (G1)
Shana (LoD) vs Samus (S3)

Light:

Aeris (FF7) vs Palmer (FF7)
Rena (SO2) vs Brey (DQ4)
Jaro (SF2) vs Gobi (BoF1)
Jean (BoF2) vs Jogurt (SF1)

[Random Consonant]

Godlike:

Erim (Lufias) vs Claude (SO2)
Berle (SO2) vs Kuja (FF9)
Menardi (GS) vs Maxim (Lufia 2))

Heavy:

Liete (G1) vs Todd (WA3)
Dario  (CC) vs Luc (Suikos)
Alena (DQ4) vs Alhazad (WA1)

Middle:

Mystina (VP1) vs Ramsus (XG)
Tifa (FF7) vs Spar (BoF2)
Antenora (WA2) vs Milda (G1)

Light:

Aeris (FF7) vs Palmer (FF7)
Rena (SO2) vs Brey (DQ4)
Jaro (SF2) vs Gobi (BoF1)
Jean (BoF2) vs Jogurt (SF1)

[Dhyerwolf]

Godlike:

Erim (Lufias) vs Claude (SO2)
Berle (SO2) vs Kuja (FF9)
Menardi (GS) vs Maxim (Lufia 2)- So...this. Yeah, Menardi has two really big things going for her in her speed and solid durability. I do let Maxim start with 26% IP (50% HP loss), but...he needs 100. What strikes me is that...do a little damage, buff and eventually double with each attack doing about average damage.
Myria (BoFs) vs Arc (AtLC)

Heavy:

Adel (FF8) vs Solo (DQ4)
Liete (G1) vs Todd (WA3)
Dario  (CC) vs Luc (Suikos)- Abstain
Alena (DQ4) vs Alhazad (WA1)- Summons support, laughs.

Middle:

Mystina (VP1) vs Ramsus (XG)
Tifa (FF7) vs Spar (BoF2)
Antenora (WA2) vs Milda (G1)
Shana (LoD) vs Samus (S3)- Very easy to me as Shana's damage is not good enough against healers, and Yellow Scarf gets Confuse

Light:

Aeris (FF7) vs Palmer (FF7)
Rena (SO2) vs Brey (DQ4)- Resist Confuse to me means that Brey is limited to much worse statuses that have traditionally been scoffed at being buying a turn for healing. Anti ruins his damage (it makes their damage evenish, and then Rena can buff her physical 50%).
Jaro (SF2) vs Gobi (BoF1)
Jean (BoF2) vs Jogurt (SF1)

[Dark Holy Elf]

Suikoden 3 doesn't have confuse for Yellow Scarf to block. Yellow Scarf blocks a whopping 4 status effects and does nothing against 2 others (3 others if you count Silent Lake's status as a status). Extending that feeble coverage to unrelated status effects like confuse doesn't sit right with me.

This isn't to say Samus may not win anyway, but yeah.

EDIT: For Alhazad, you can vote on whatever form you want. Already came up with Lezard; we vote on however we would vote on the dueller now, regardless of what standards were (or even what games were released) at the time.

[Dhyerwolf]

Extending it, I would assume that Yellow Scarf gets mental statuses (Confuse, Charm) and misses other fatal ones (Stone).

ACF Alhazad...right, I guess he can summon the support to me taking a turn but that may not be for everyone.

[superaielman]

EDIT: For Alhazad, you can vote on whatever form you want. Already came up with Lezard; we vote on however we would vote on the dueller now, regardless of what standards were (or even what games were released) at the time.

Correct. The one exception to this is Hrist, because we very specifically ranked VP2 as separate from VP1.

[Lance]

Godlike
Erim (Lufias) vs Claude (SO2)
Berle (SO2) vs Kuja (FF9)

Heavy
Adel (FF8) vs Solo (DQ4)
Liete (G1) vs Todd (WA3)
Dario (CC) vs Luc (Suikos)
Alena (DQ4) vs Alhazad (WA1)

Middle
Mystina (VP1) vs Ramsus (XG)
Tifa (FF7) vs Spar (BoF2)
Antenora (WA2) vs Milda (G1)

Light
Aeris (FF7) vs Palmer (FF7)
Rena (SO2) vs Brey (DQ4)
Jaro (SF2) vs Gobi (BoF1)
Jean (BoF2) vs Jogurt (SF1)

[Cmdr_King]

Godlike:

Erim (Lufias) vs Claude (SO2)
Berle (SO2) vs Kuja (FF9)
Menardi (GS) vs Maxim (Lufia 2)- I should probably look up maxim's options for things like healing, anti-fire, etc, but lazy.
Myria (BoFs) vs Arc (AtLC)- No vote.

Heavy:

Adel (FF8) vs Solo (DQ4)
Liete (G1) vs Todd (WA3)
Dario  (CC) vs Luc (Suikos)
Alena (DQ4) vs Alhazad (WA1)

Middle:

Mystina (VP1) vs Ramsus (XG)
Tifa (FF7) vs Spar (BoF2)
Antenora (WA2) vs Milda (G1)
Shana (LoD) vs Samus (S3)

Light:

Aeris (FF7) vs Palmer (FF7)
Rena (SO2) vs Brey (DQ4)
Jaro (SF2) vs Gobi (BoF1)
Jean (BoF2) vs Jogurt (SF1)- No vote.

[Nephrite]

Godlike:

Erim (Lufias) vs Claude (SO2)- Splat.
Berle (SO2) vs Kuja (FF9)- Invinciblity handles the flare star counters, I think.
Menardi (GS) vs Maxim (Lufia 2)- It's Menardi.
Myria (BoFs) vs Arc (AtLC)

Heavy:

Adel (FF8) vs Solo (DQ4)- Fendspell.
Liete (G1) vs Todd (WA3)- Better. Todd's more of a Middle.
Dario  (CC) vs Luc (Suikos)- Locks down eaisly enough.
Alena (DQ4) vs Alhazad (WA1)- Alena crits by turn two, which is enough.

Middle:

Mystina (VP1) vs Ramsus (XG)- Slapfight ahoy.
Tifa (FF7) vs Spar (BoF2) - Survives an L1, which is all he has to do.
Antenora (WA2) vs Milda (G1)- Kneejerk. Milda can block one status at least, and she does have a lot of durability.
Shana (LoD) vs Samus (S3)-Think so, Shana has no real way to pressure Samus.

Light:

Aeris (FF7) vs Palmer (FF7)- This is some fight. I don't think Palmer can handle Healing Wind spam though.
Rena (SO2) vs Brey (DQ4)- Reflect and then Chaos.
Jaro (SF2) vs Gobi (BoF1)- There is a difference between being bad and being Gobi.
Jean (BoF2) vs Jogurt (SF1)

[superaielman]

Updating tomorrow, get your votes in now!

[Dhyerwolf]

Menardi (GS) vs Maxim (Lufia 2)- I should probably look up maxim's options for things like healing, anti-fire, etc, but lazy.

Highly limited with 100 IP, and Menardi is fantastic at avoiding that (high speed for a double, can buff, can stall while waiting for the double, is very durable to start). It's odd that people gut check Maxim because he's not Menardi because Menardi is at least a clear Heavy.

[superaielman]

Tough hide is 13% IP, but that requires losing the ID protection armor. I have less than zero respect for Menardi's ID so it doesn't matter. Any of Maxim's defensive buffs win this (The damage reflection ones!) but the lowest IP threshold on those is 77%.

[Meeplelard]

Actually remembered this time!

Godlike:

Erim (Lufias) vs Claude (SO2): Splat works.
Berle (SO2) vs Kuja (FF9): Kuja doesn't have the durability to avoid this.
Menardi (GS) vs Maxim (Lufia 2): Maxim immunes instant death; that was literally Menardi's only chance in the past, and it just went good bye.
Myria (BoFs) vs Arc (AtLC): Outlasts the Invincibility, pretty soundly.

Heavy:

Adel (FF8) vs Solo (DQ4): Meteor stings and all but it's totally Fendspell-able.
Liete (G1) vs Todd (WA3): AAHAHAHA Todd in Heavy.
Dario  (CC) vs Luc (Suikos): Lock Down works.
Alena (DQ4) vs Alhazad (WA1): Offense and Speed Combo I think is enough to beat Alhazad.

Middle:

Mystina (VP1) vs Ramsus (XG): VP Mage, I think Ramsus can win that with just his basic physical, rare as that is.
Tifa (FF7) vs Spar (BoF2): Tifa can immune Idle, and Spar can't do jack squat to hit around a Limit.
Antenora (WA2) vs Milda (G1): outslugs.
Shana (LoD) vs Samus (S3): Should be able to WSD this.

Light:

Aeris (FF7) vs Palmer (FF7): Palmer sucks that much.
Rena (SO2) vs Brey (DQ4): Bounce works.
Jaro (SF2) vs Gobi (BoF1): I'm going to assume an Shining Force scrub beats Gobi...
Jean (BoF2) vs Jogurt (SF1): Ah, Jogurt...hyping him is no longer funny because it's been done to death.

[Dhyerwolf]

Tough hide is 13% IP, but that requires losing the ID protection armor. I have less than zero respect for Menardi's ID so it doesn't matter. Any of Maxim's defensive buffs win this (The damage reflection ones!) but the lowest IP threshold on those is 77%.

Menardi has no problems chipping around that IP threshold. One hit for chipping, buff her attack twice (so she does about 40% damage a pop), double and finish him off. He basically gets no chances for IP since it's only gained by her attacking. She has 2600; DL damage is 128...which, factors in spells that are beyond end game. Let's just say that washes though, because maybe there are some other ways to set up. So she has about 2 PC HP that way, but it also assumes that there is no support credit (although some of it is GT, so let's say that is not a factor). Maxim is needing at least 5 hits to kill. She is at least 1.3 SD above average speed, he is 0.55 SD below (So she has a minimum of 30% better speed by 15% SD, but that's assuming she is only 1 point of speed better than Ivan). The biggest issue is that she may get doubles at the wrong time. But her speed could be better as could her durability. This is not Menardi versus a Godlike here.

[Random Consonant]

The damage average doesn't factor in spells that are beyond endgame.  The topic includes those spells, yes, but they're not included in the averages because those things are like Lv50 and if it did the average would be like ~1.5x higher anyways.  That said I wouldn't use it as a measure of Menardi's durability anyways since it not only ignores alternate setups as you noted, but things like summons (which the player can just go in ready to use, for all that this involves a notable stat hit, still makes taking her HP literally suspect to me) and non-storebought equipment that you actually use in that fight because GS storebought equipment why (matters for Isaac/Garet mostly, since Ragnarok/Heat Wave are based off of their Attack stat, though there's also some defense boosts and I believe speed ones there).

[Dhyerwolf]

Any defense and speed boosts would be factored into her damage and speed. Attack boosts would help. Summons...mileage varies, but this they come with a stat hit for a few turns, if you count them that means that the stat hit should be reflected in some way. Needless to say, that if you start counting it into speed and she 3-2s Maxim, then she should not have a problem (I mean...she already 3-2s Maxim by 25 SD taking her speed at 1 point above Isaac's. I take a much harsher view on SDs, but if you don't, that's extremely clear cut). Maxim is...slow with average durability and damage for the first several turns.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Actually remembered this time!

Godlike:

Erim (Lufias) vs Claude (SO2): Splat works.
Berle (SO2) vs Kuja (FF9): Kuja doesn't have the durability to avoid this.
Menardi (GS) vs Maxim (Lufia 2): Maxim immunes instant death; that was literally Menardi's only chance in the past, and it just went good bye.
Myria (BoFs) vs Arc (AtLC): Outlasts the Invincibility, pretty soundly.

Heavy:

Adel (FF8) vs Solo (DQ4): Meteor stings and all but it's totally Fendspell-able.
Liete (G1) vs Todd (WA3): AAHAHAHA Todd in Heavy.
Dario  (CC) vs Luc (Suikos): Lock Down works.
Alena (DQ4) vs Alhazad (WA1): Offense and Speed Combo I think is enough to beat Alhazad.

Middle:

Mystina (VP1) vs Ramsus (XG): VP Mage, I think Ramsus can win that with just his basic physical, rare as that is.
Tifa (FF7) vs Spar (BoF2): Tifa can immune Idle, and Spar can't do jack squat to hit around a Limit.
Antenora (WA2) vs Milda (G1): outslugs.
Shana (LoD) vs Samus (S3): Should be able to WSD this.

Light:

Aeris (FF7) vs Palmer (FF7): Palmer sucks that much.
Rena (SO2) vs Brey (DQ4): Bounce works.
Jaro (SF2) vs Gobi (BoF1): I'm going to assume an Shining Force scrub beats Gobi...
Jean (BoF2) vs Jogurt (SF1): Ah, Jogurt...hyping him is no longer funny because it's been done to death.

stealing the votes, but not the Jogurt defamation. Long Live The Hamsterlord.

[Random Consonant]

Oh certainly, if you think Menardi's durability is worth respecting.  On the other hand, I don't (and for whatever difference it makes, I take starting IP higher than you do anyways).  It's a pretty bad fight if you ask me, but eh.