Shining Force 2

[Pyro]

Why do this topic?
1. Give definite durability figures. Enemy attack was assumed to be 120 (only Zeon and the Pyrohydras do slightly better than this) and a % was calculated compared to how a PC takes damage compared to average defense against this attack stat. Tanks are tanky, frail folks are frail. Note that magic ignores terrain damage reduction. I have accounted for the fact that fliers lose terrain bonus in physical durabilities.

2. Account for greater than 20 base pre-promotion level. Basically the folks who don't start promoted benefit from waiting as long as possible to do so because promotion 'lowers' their level for the purpose of gaining exp so they quickly catch up to the promoted level they 'should' be, but with the extra stats from those additional levels. Generally there is no point to promoting until weapons show up which require you to be promoted to use, so I took L24 for base level prior to promotion. 26 for Peter/Gerhalt/Kiwi since they don't have weapons to wait on, and 27 for Karna/Sarah since they cheat and have teh healing for exp building in addition to participating in combat with Blast. Healers get taken at promoted L28 instead of L25, since they heal for exp in addition to fighting and so can 'break free' of the game's very strict levelling curve (Sarah/Karna/Frayja/Sheela)

3. Damage in this game is calculated as Atk-Def = Max damage, with Min damage being 75% of Max, and damage falls in that range, in effect this means average damage = (Atk-Def)*.875. In addition, almost every terrain ever is 15% damage reduction (the entirety of the final map, for example... even Zeon benefits from it. I've included this in the damage so that is another 15% reduction for physicals. On the PC end, there are 4 flyers who do not get the 15% bonus and 26 ground-dwellers who do. Durabilities have been adjusted to reflect this.

4. Mithril tier 1 weapons and no or overlevelled spells were assumed. Mithril weapons are difficult to get in a blind playthrough perhaps but the game seems balanced for them (and you find some even besides that). Overlevelled spells... The game makes grinding past endgame level kind of hard (almost impossible) unless you are a healer, and some PCs were obnoxious about relying upon spells they don't get till post endgame. This mostly affects Chaz, Taya, Tyrin, and Bowie... though the reduced damage average means they mostly don't care except for Chaz. But screw Chaz, who has no good damage until Lvl26. Also, the fair way to do overlevelled spells would be to actually take the cast at that level, which would mean physicals would improve while magic stays the same and they'd look worse.

5. Agi is worthless. No, seriously. No maps in the entirety of the game have Agi mean something from a practical standpoint. It will *never* ever ever determine whether you or the enemy strike first in a fight. It also doesn't affect double/Evade rates. As such I strongly suggest ignoring it. I would suggest taking a unit's effective Threat Range as their initiative. I will list the Threat Range for each PC.

6. Double Rates for all PCs are 1/32 except for Slade who sports a 1/16. Critical hits are 1/16 and do 25% more damage, with Lemon and Slade having 1/8 rates for 50% more damage. Counters are 1/16 and do half damage except for Bowie, Sarah, Karna, Sheela, and Gerhalt, and Lemon who have a 1/8th counter rate.


So then.

Stats:
HP: Straightforward. At least there's no permadeath.
MP: As always
Att: Attack stat. (Att-Def)*.875 * (1-Terrain%) is damage.
Def: The ancillary of above.
Agi: Determines who goes first the very first turn, is randomized after that so in theory having a very low Agi stat can immunize you from randomness in turns! Screw this stat with a spork.

Averages up top!
HP: 80.9
Def: 73.37
Damage: 31.9 (2.5 kill point of 79.75)



Bowie:
HP: 100 (124%)
MP: 25
Att: 104
Def: 87
Agi: 54
Threat Range: 7
Physical Durability: 178%

Physical attack (Force Sword): 42
Magic:
Bolt3 (20 MP): 27 damage AoE. +2 Threat Range.




Sarah
HP: 89 (110%)
MP: 74
Att: 97
Def: 72
Agi: 67
Threat Range: 6
Physical durability:  109%

Physical (Misty Knuckles): 40 damage
Magic:
Heal 4 (20MP): Full Healing
Blast 4 (8 MP): 33 wind magic damage
Heal 3 (10 MP): 38 healing.
Slow (3 MP) : -33% Att/Speed. 11% wears off per enemy turn including the first. Can't be 'refreshed' or stacked.


Chester:
HP: 95 (117%)
MP: 0
Att: 80
Def: 69
Agi: 66
Physical Durability: 109%
Threat Range: 8

Physical (Valkyrie): 25


Jaha
HP: 82 (101%)
MP: 0
Att: 87
Def: 101
Agi: 64
Physical Durability: 253% (!)
Threat Range: 6

Attack (Heat Axe): 32



Kazin
HP: 71 (79%)
MP: 84
Att: 52
Def: 61
Agi: 79
Physical Durability: 71%
Threat Range: 7

Attack (Guardian Staff): 2 damage
Spells:
Blaze 4 (10 MP): 44 fire magic damage
Desoul (8 MP): 30% chance of Instant Death.



Slade
HP: 84 (108%)
MP: 42
Att: 85
Def: 77
Agi: 69
Physical Durability: 114%
Threat Range: 9

Physical (Critical Sword): 29
Spells:
Katon 3 (12 MP): 46 non-elemental magic damage.



Kiwi
HP: 38 (47%)
MP: 0
Att: 98
Def: 100
Agi: 55
Physical Durability: 111%
Threat Range: 6

Physical Attack: 36 damage



Peter
HP: 105 (130%)
MP: 0
Att: 119
Def: 87
Agi: 58
Physical Durability: 168%
Threat Range: 8

Attack: 51 damage



May
HP: 69 (85%)
MP: 0
Att: 77
Def: 56
Agi: 58
Physical Durability: 63%
Threat Range: 9

Attack: 27



Gerhalt
HP: 89 (110%)
MP: 0
Att: 110
Def: 80
Agi: 68
Physical Durability: 130%
Threat Range: 6

Attack: 45 damage.



Luke
HP: 85 (105%)
MP: 0
Att: 74
Def: 64
Agi: 70
Physical Durability: 80%
Threat Range: 7

Attack (Critical Sword): 21 damage




Rohde
HP: 73 (90%)
MP: 0
Att: 71
Def: 72
Agi: 46
Physical Durability: (89%)
Threat Range: 8

Attack: 22 damage



Rick
HP: 90 (111%)
MP: 0
Att: 78
Def: 89
Agi: 70
Physical Durability: 170%
Threat Range: 8

Physical: 23



Elric
HP: 81 (100%)
MP: 0
Att: 69
Def: 61
Agi: 61
Physical Durability: 80%
Threat Range: 8

Physical: 21 damage



Eric
HP: 98 (121%)
MP: 0
Att: 86
Def: 73
Agi: 69
Physical Durability: 122%
Threat Range (8)

Attack: 29




Karna
HP: 100 (124%)
MP: 84
Att: 94
Def: 59
Agi: 67
Physical Durability: 96%
Threat Range: 7

Attack: 38 damage
Spells:
Heal 4 (20 MP): Full Healing
Heal 3 (10 MP): 38 Healing
Blast 4 (8 MP): 33 wind magic damage.



Randolph
HP: 85 (105%)
MP: 0
Att: 84
Def: 98
Agi: 53
Physical Durability: 226%
Threat Range: 6

Physical: 29



Tyrin
HP: 66 (82%)
MP: 81
Att: 54
Def: 62
Agi: 64
Physical Durability: 67%
Threat Range: 8

Attack: 3 damage
Spells:
Freeze 4 (12 MP): 55 ice magic damage.
Sleep (4 MP): 40% sleep. Target has a chance to wake every turn.




Janet
HP: 78 (96%)
MP: 0
Att: 65
Def: 60
Agi: 63
Physical Durability: 76%
Threat Range: 8

Attack: 18 damage



Higins
HP: 86 (106%)
MP: 0
Att: 77
Def: 65
Agi: 55
Physical Durability: 92%
Threat Range: 8

Physical: 22 damage.



Skreech
HP: 78 (96%)
MP: 0
Att: 74
Def: 60
Agi: 58
Physical Durability: 68%
Threat Range: 7

Attack: 21 damage




Taya
HP: 65 (80.3%)
MP: 79
Att: 47
Def: 53
Agi: 62
Physical Durability: 57%
Threat Range: 7

Attack: 0
Spells:
Apollo 2 (17 MP): 55 Fire Magic Damage
Dao 2 (15 MP): 44 wind magic damage
Atlas 1 (14 MP): 44 non-elemental magic damage.




Frayja
HP: 79 (98%)
MP: 73
Att: 63
Def: 62
Agi: 57
Physical Durability: 79%
Threat Range: 6

Physical (Guardian Staff): 10 damage
Spells:
Aura 3 (15 MP): 38 healing, large AoE.




Jaro
HP: 83 (103%)
MP: 0
Att: 78
Def: 64
Agi: 64
Physical Durability: 78%
Threat Range: 8

Attack: 23 damage




Gyan
HP: 82 (101%)
MP: 0
Att: 79
Def: 91
Agi: 48
Physical Durability: 166%
Threat Range: 6

Attack (Heat Axe): 25 damage




Sheela
HP: 77 (95%)
MP: 64
Att: 79
Def: 58
Agi: 61
Physical Durability: 73%
Threat Range: 6

Attack: 26 damage
Spells:
Heal 3 (10 MP): 38 healing
Blast 4 (8 MP): 33 wind magic damage.
Boost (2 MP): +33% Agi/Def. Lose 11% per turn including the casting turn.




Zynk
HP: 76 (94%)
MP: 0
Att: 98
Def: 77
Agi: 55
Physical Durability: 104%
Threat Range: 5

Attack: 36 damage



Chaz
HP: 74 (91%)
MP: 81
Att: 50
Def: 61
Agi: 53
Physical Durability: 73%
Threat Range: 8

Attack: 0
Spells:
Freeze 3 (12 MP): 20 Ice magic damage.
Blaze 2 (6 MP): 15 FIre Magic damage.




Lemon
HP: 87 (108%)
MP: 0
Att: 82
Def: 82
Agi: 58
Physical Durability: 134%
Threat Range: 7

Attack (Critical): 27 [He starts with the Dark Sword, but cursed weapons suck, even with the greater damage]

[39 damage with the Dark Sword, chance of Self-Damage or Stun to cancel turn]



Claude
HP: 62 (77%)
MP: 0
Att: 100
Def: 100
Agi: 47
Physical Durability: 182%
Threat Range: 5

Attack: 37 damage

[Dark Holy Elf]

I don't agree with extra exp for healers; it doesn't fit my in-game experience at all (nor that of several others as per discussion in chat).

Where did you get the stats? There are some oddities, such as Janet having 5 less attack than in Gourry's topic despite 4 extra levels. Also Slade being durable, WTF.

[Pyro]

IF you make the decision not ot heal when it isn't absolutely necessary then you'll result in lower levels for them. But the whole "Having an additional means of generating Exp on non-attack turns" means they have a built-in advantage. They may not have been your *highest* level but I'll bet you they were above average, or else you were neglecting them from a combat perspective as well (never letting them fight). Also a lot of folks just feed kills to the Phoenix and Bowie and so on as high-offense types tend to gobble up more of the kills unless you focus on building your team more efficiently. Think a similar thing came up for FE10 with healers.

Stat calculator from Shining Force 2 editor... it basically simulated a PC's growth's 10000 times and averaged em, removing any variance (.01 maybe <_< ). I'll double-check Janet, but she doesn't *actually* get more levels I think, as she comes at L24 and you either promote her right away or she sucks even worse than normal due to lack of weaponry. Slade is actually quite good despite his horrible start. Funny how that works. If it makes you feel any better I benched him my first playthrough!

[Nephrite]

Doesn't Claude take less damage from Fire or Ice or something? Maybe that was a romhack thing...

[Pyro]

Claude and Peter both halve fire. No other elemental resists exist on the PC end.

Edit: And I checked Janet. Her growths really are that bad. If she stayed in Unpromoted Archer form till L40 she'd be a lot better as her growths unpromoted are significantly better than promoted...