Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 108

[Nephrite]

"Hmm... I see things are still hard enough. Perhaps, then, I shall just continue along this road for a bit longer..."


Link to the Dungeon Wiki!

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**Full Heals reset limit and other types of gauges when teams pass through them.
**Characters that join after the start are locked into the relative stats they have at that time until they would officially join.

Team Random | Yuna (MT), Lucian, Shiho, Rune and Mew
[Mew: Psychic/Flamethrower/Reflect/Safeguard]
Floor 6b: Overachievers
Team Random vs. Ashera and Dheginsea
*Full Heal*
Team Random vs. Katrina and Charlton Blunt (XF)
*Full Heal*
Team Random vs. Castle Exdeath and Gilgamesh
*Full Heal*
Team Random vs. Loki and Surt
*Full Heal*
Team Random vs. Izanami and Adachi

Team Super | Ted (MT), Zerase, Chemist, Ninja, Tia
Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"
Team Super vs. Katt, Rand, Bow, Nina2, Deis2, Jean, and Spar
Team Super vs. Jude, Cecilia (Wa1o), Brad Evans, Virigina, Dean and Clarissa
Team Super vs. Yuri2, Karin, Joachim, Gepetto, Anastasia, Kurando and Blanca
Team Super vs. Crono, Marle, Frog, Ayla, Magus, Robo and Lucca
Team Super vs. Squall, Cecil, Terra, Cloud, Zidane and Aeonless Yuna

Team dude | Rika, Elincia, Mew, Yukiko, Nall (Elemental Advance)
[Mew: Explosion, Sword's Dance, Return, Taunt]
[Floor 4b: Buff Enough]
*On this floor, all buffs have their effects increased by 50%, debuffs by 25% and the first two actions of both the enemy and player teams must be either buffs, debuffs or healing.
Team dude vs. Alakazam, Mr. Mime and Charizard
Team dude vs. Demi, Angelo and Raja
Team dude vs. Yuna, Auron and FFT Time Mage
Team dude vs. Arnaud, Yulie, Lilka and Emma (AC:F)
Team dude vs. Adachi, Alexia (XF) and Alma

Team Yoshiken | Shadow, Ramza, Tidus, Elincia, Moulder (Vantage)
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
[Ramza: Chemist]
Team Yoshiken vs. Hrist (VP1), Evil Gaia, Big Joe, Snowe(S4), Gorudo and Boss Catiua (TOPSP)
Team Yoshiken vs. Cecil, Galleon, FFT Knight and Kwanda Rossman (S1)
Team Yoshiken vs. Blissey, Axem Green, Augst and Lucius
Team Yoshiken vs. Slash and Flea
Team Yoshiken vs. Augus (BoF2) and Shadow Yosuke


Status Symbol Law - Team is fully status, debuff and ID immune, but has damage done to them increased by 1.1x and damage done by them decreased to .9x.

Multitarget - One person on the team's actions all become Multitargetted. However, the damage of regular attacks, the healing of all spells that restore HP or MP, the status rates of status spells or attacks and the effect of buffs or debuffs (rounded down to the nearest half point in the case of Pokemon) is reduced by 33%. (Deadly Fingertips has a 67% chance of inflicting ID for example) Moves that were originally MT are not affected by this. This sealstone may be moved. In the case of revival, this affects the amount of HP restored, not the chance of revival occuring. Moves that have two types of effects (healing + buffing) are both decreased.

Elemental Advance - Elemental weaknesses are removed for both the player and enemy team. Elemental spells and attacks cannot be absorbed, resisted, or nullified by enemies. If an elemental weakness were normally hit by a player character, that character may cast that same spell again against ONLY the targets that are weak to that spell.

Vantage Effect - Counterattack abilities activate before being attacked and also increases the chance of any counter attack activation skill to 100%.

[Nephrite]

Two things: One, if  you want Ramza as not Chemist, let me know, Yoshi.

Two: Someone clarify how many targets Taunt can hit -- I believe it is just one but would appreciate confirmation.

[SnowFire]

Team Yoshiken passes easily, those aren't characters with slow starts.

Team dude presumably passes again off Rika cheese and getting perfect evasion->Explosion.  Although just perfect evasion is really enough usually, except for the second fight, where Rika ID's Angelo before Kawthwack comes down, and even if Rika's ID misses there's decent odds Kathwack won't do enough damage to cause team dude to lose the fight.

Team Random I'll await his analysis on.  Yuna's MT'd Protect helps a lot vs. Loki & Surt, but that's still potentially a problem fight unless Rune has something cool, since Lucian & Shiho lose the tiebreak in-game (right?) so the team will be eating a lot of MT damage.

Team Super, maybe later.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Floor 6, team random vs. Loki/Surt? Yuna has Holy by now, Team Random just 3HKOs Loki with that level of magical offense.

[Nephrite]

Hey, don't forget Auron has Initiative THREATEN. !!!

[SnowFire]

Fair enough point, forgot that Rune was technically faster than average speed (grumble) & Mew's Psychic is pretty good.

Team Random vs. Ashera and Dheginsea
MT Holy off the Auras, bum rush Ashera.  If you respect Dheggy's MT, then he might clean up those wounded by counters, but Yuna will still be alive and can start patching things up - hell, MT 66% revival or the like.
*Full Heal*
Team Random vs. Katrina and Charlton Blunt (XF)
lol Charlton.  Katrina is scary in her limit phase for duellers but teams can smash through it fairly fast.
*Full Heal*
Team Random vs. Castle Exdeath and Gilgamesh
I assume Random wins this?
*Full Heal*
Team Random vs. Loki and Surt
See Jo'ou, even MT'd Holy is still dangerous + Psychic + something from Rune, then heal through Surt.
*Full Heal*
Team Random vs. Izanami and Adachi
Safeguard + spamming MT healing mocks this fight, since all of the status tools turn off.

So pass for Random.

[Random Consonant]

Team Random | Yuna (MT), Lucian, Shiho, Rune and Mew
[Mew: Psychic/Flamethrower/Reflect/Safeguard]
Floor 6b: Overachievers
Team Random vs. Ashera and Dheginsea - Yeah Mew tossing up Reflect makes Dheggy a non-issue outside of Ire and it doesn't matter, Yuna/Rune MT basically handles this, especially since Tandle is both lightning and MT, making Goldoa groove.  Ashera can otherwise be managed.
*Full Heal*
Team Random vs. Katrina and Charlton Blunt (XF) - Charlton 3HKOs and shouldn't get more than one turn.  Team can probably handle Katrina after that since MR Lucian rips off huge chunks of HP.
*Full Heal*
Team Random vs. Castle Exdeath and Gilgamesh - Handled easily enough.  Gilgamesh has mostly status which rams into Safeguard/Yuna/Shiho and Exdeath can be kept in check.
*Full Heal*
Team Random vs. Loki and Surt - Loki gets 3HKO'd before he sees a turn and even if not, he doesn't need to be, Yuna and Mew make sure that the combined offense of the VP1 duo kills no one since it's not that high to begin with and Lucian is tearing Surt a new asshole. 
*Full Heal*
Team Random vs. Izanami and Adachi - Adachi probably just gets pasted.  If not, Safeguard owns his shenanigans save for Mudoon (lol ST ID against three revivers).  Izanami's ability to handle things from then on can be expresed in images of laughter.

Team Yoshiken passes easily enough so far as I can tell.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

... holy crap Izanami 1 gets -owned- by Dispel, doesn't she.

[superaielman]

Team Super | Ted (MT), Zerase, Chemist, Ninja, Tia
Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"
Team Super vs. Katt, Rand, Bow, Nina2, Deis2, Jean, and Spar- Katt and Deis should splatter Ted. Tia, Ninja, and Chemist beat everyone else to the draw. Zerase+Tia using Thunder is MT OHKO level damage. That should knock out Katt/Bow/Jean/Nina, none of whom are tanks.Ninja's physical should finish off Deis. Chemist can heal someone (Tia?), doesn't really mater who. Fight is pretty controllable after this point, as anyone Rand revives is going to get gangbanged before they can kill the team off.
Team Super vs. Jude, Cecilia (Wa1o), Brad Evans, Virigina, Dean and Clarissa- Same problem as above. Clarissa can rob turn Ted (She has to or else it's boom time). Zerase+Tia can clear out Dean/Virginia/Jude/Clarissa. A Ninja physical should lock down Cecilia well enough. If she does anything other than healing, she's dead. Hasting won't help, considering the speed gap between her and Ninja. Brad isn't dangerous to a team, whcih gives them enough time to heal up.
Team Super vs. Yuri2, Karin, Joachim, Gepetto, Anastasia, Kurando and Blanca- I cruise if either of my nuke PC's beat Blanca and Kurando to the draw or prevent them from getting a turn, and am in deep shit if they both get a turn.  Tia's Thunder and Ninja's physical should be able to kill off one of Blanca or Kurando, which is enough offhand. That means Ted and Zerase gets turns, which means boom.
Team Super vs. Crono, Marle, Frog, Ayla, Magus, Robo and Lucca- Crono can't kill anyone here, but he does take up Tia's turn (She needs to use Champion) Ninja should hit Marle.. Ayla/Magus likely beat everyone else to the punch. Triple kick/Dark Matter can pretty much kill any one person on the team. They should take out Ted, as he has the highest damage.  Zerase should drop the MT pain, which should kill off Robo/Marle/Crono/Ayla.  Chemist should use an X potion on Tia to make sure she survives Lucca's flare. From there it's pretty easy to revive/cruise.
Team Super vs. Squall, Cecil, Terra, Cloud, Zidane and Aeonless Yuna- See the other fights. Zidane has to status out Ted or bad, bad things happen. Zerase+Tia magical MT should kill off Zidane/Cloud (Tia's damage being the weaker of the two even works to avoid a serious Cloud limit)/Squall. Ninja's physical should prevent Terra from getting a turn. Yuna and Cecil can't stop the entire team themselves.


Team Yoshi passes. He's got revival, speed, and respectable offense from the start.

Abstain on Mew teams.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Team Random | Yuna (MT), Lucian, Shiho, Rune and Mew
[Mew: Psychic/Flamethrower/Reflect/Safeguard]
Floor 6b: Overachievers
Team Random vs. Ashera and Dheginsea - Tandle on Dheggy holy craaaaaaaaaaaaap. Also, plentiful MT and healing.
*Full Heal*
Team Random vs. Katrina and Charlton Blunt (XF) - Cure Condition and Esuna spam handle Charlton's status pretty well and he ain't surviving Lucian/Mewtwo/Rune bumrushing. Katrina gets rushed with the level of buffed offense this team can muster.
*Full Heal*
Team Random vs. Castle Exdeath and Gilgamesh - Holy against Exdeath is uuuuuuuuuuuglyyyyyyyyyyy. Gilgy's status is entirely ST and affected by stats and evade, so no luck there either.
*Full Heal*
Team Random vs. Loki and Surt - lol 3hko
*Full Heal*
Team Random vs. Izanami and Adachi - Oh dear god Mew OHKOs Adachi with Psychic. Yuna relentlessly makes fun of Izanami 1 with Dispelling Mind Charge (because MT Shell wasn't enough to trivialize her first phase, clearly). Then, the bumrush resumes on Izanami 2. Raw durability isn't really the forte of endgame P4 bosses, the level of offense you get to play with at that point is just nuts.

Team Super | Ted (MT), Zerase, Chemist, Ninja, Tia
Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"
Team Super vs. Katt, Rand, Bow, Nina2, Deis2, Jean, and Spar - Okay, so -nobody- across the floor but Marle and mdef-twinked Lucca lives through a Judgment if the opposition lets Ted live. As I said, the best way for the people here to manage a Ted kill is Atk. Up on Katt => overkill Ted, but this just isn't useful because Tia+Zerase are faster than non-Katt and Deis and their salvo KOs everybody but Deis (who gets picked off by Ninja), Spar (who is useless) and Rand (who gets instadoubled by Ninja). So yeah. They can just leave Spar alive for patching stuff back up.
Team Super vs. Jude, Cecilia (Wa1o), Brad Evans, Virigina, Dean and Clarissa - Well, now we have -two- complicated situations: Clarissa and Ginny are both faster than Ted and Zerase. And Ginny OHKOs Zerase with a first turn Gatling if she twinks for it (seriously, take a -look- at Zerase's pdur). Gatling Zerase => Sacrifice on Ted and now the party's scrambling, and Jude also starts pressuring Tia by setting up AB shenanigans with a physical. And Cecilia getting a turn can ensue -mass- insanity, since she can put up her MT buffs of doom (mostly Quicken is bad news). I can even see how super can handle this fight if you see Ted getting an immediate turn after Chemist or Tia revives him and then lol asplode everybody but Ceci -and- then he gets a turn to Silent Lake, but I honestly don't know if I see this happening. At least he can constantly reapply SL with judicious usage of Hi-Ethers and Ceci's physicals threaten absolutely nobody, but Ted -needs- me to see his turn happening pretty much as soon as he's revived. But let's say this happens. If it doesn't, this fight is immediately lost and absolutely nothing matters. EDIT: And yeah, my kneejerk is to go "no Ted no get instant turn". Tough luck.

Later.

Team dude | Rika, Elincia, Mew, Yukiko, Nall (Elemental Advance)
[Mew: Explosion, Sword's Dance, Return, Taunt]
[Floor 4b: Buff Enough]
*On this floor, all buffs have their effects increased by 50%, debuffs by 25% and the first two actions of both the enemy and player teams must be either buffs, debuffs or healing.
Team dude vs. Alakazam, Mr. Mime and Charizard
Team dude vs. Demi, Angelo and Raja
Team dude vs. Yuna, Auron and FFT Time Mage
Team dude vs. Arnaud, Yulie, Lilka and Emma (AC:F)
Team dude vs. Adachi, Alexia (XF) and Alma

Team Yoshiken | Shadow, Ramza, Tidus, Elincia, Moulder (Vantage)
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
[Ramza: Chemist]
Team Yoshiken vs. Hrist (VP1), Evil Gaia, Big Joe, Snowe(S4), Gorudo and Boss Catiua (TOPSP)
Team Yoshiken vs. Cecil, Galleon, FFT Knight and Kwanda Rossman (S1)
Team Yoshiken vs. Blissey, Axem Green, Augst and Lucius
Team Yoshiken vs. Slash and Flea
Team Yoshiken vs. Augus (BoF2) and Shadow Yosuke

[dude789]

Does Dekaja catch Mind Charge in Persona 4? If it doesn't I probably wouldn't let Yuna's Dispel work on it.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Dekaja hits only specifically the -kaja spells, to the point there are specific spells for dispelling either buffs -and- debuffs, and neither catch Tetra/Makarakarn either. I'd certainly view that kind of crap being a testament to P4 buffing/debuffing being crap for comprehensiveness rather than Mind Charge being badass. FFX Dispel gets a more ample swath of buffs than P4 De- spells do, and I definitely see that carrying over. Not that it matters, because MT Shell+Heal spamming points and laughs at Izanami hardcore anyway.

[superaielman]

Also, someone poke at my walkthrough/thoughts on my team. I *think* I make it through the floor in spite of Ted getting killed before getting a turn in most every single fight.

[dude789]

I don't think Thunder/Meteor is quite a MT OHKO. If I'm remembering Lufia 2 spells correctly, they take a pretty harsh damage drop from being made MT and Thunder is below average damage to begin with because physicals tend to be better at endgame. I think it mainly causes problems in the first and last fight as the combo might miss the OHKO on Jean and maybe Bow which could cause problems or Squall and Cloud which would also be troublesome cause it would leave them in limit range.

[superaielman]

Mmm, you're right. MTing a spell thirds the damage. Tia's Thunder should be average damage on the dot. For the first fight it isn't relevant- Jean will probably survive that blitz, but Bow won't. If he does he'll get finished off by a mighty chemist physical. Jean's not enough of a threat to derail the entire team offhand.

Last fight's a bigger problem. If I can get Ted to get a turn, I win. Mirror stopping soul blade does that. If it doesn't...mm. All I need to do is stop Zidane from getting a turn. Destroy from Tia+two ninja physicals should stop him from getting that turn at worst. Yeah, vote stands.

[Nephrite]

Can Katt and Deis both use their MT moves? I dunno what that does, really.. it might kill Tia and Ted?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

It hits their better durability, with the caveat that Katt's magical damage is pretty damned bad. I honestly think that the surest way to score a kill there is slapping Atk Up on Katt (Deis is faster than her), since it turns her into a OHKO machine.

[Dhyerwolf]

Wouldn't most of Super's enemies go for Zerase first. Sure Ted can knock out 1 person at a time, but since most of the analysis has Zerase and Tia combining MT to wipe out multiple, taking out just one is not so big a deal and Ted has like 1/2 of the MT damage of Zerase.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Ted has the MT sealstone. Even with the damage nerf, that's 1.5x PC HP MT off Judgment. This is way more dangerous than Zerase's offense.

[dude789]

That could put the team in a bit of an awkward position for the next fight though. If Ted just goes and blasts everyone away with a dead or heavily injured Zerase that could open things up for the next fight to take out both.

[Random Consonant]

Wasn't Izanami explictly stated to be form 1 only on this floor and not the full formchain or am I misremembering that?  Not that this likely matters.

And yeah, FFX Dispel should kill Mind Charge.  Arguing that it wouldn't because Dekaja misses it is silly, since Dekaja/Dekunda kill -kaja/-nda spells respectively, which is a pretty huge strike against arguing against a vastly more comprehensive dispell doing its work here in my opinion.

[Pyro]

Team Super vs. Katt, Rand, Bow, Nina2, Deis2, Jean, and Spar: Team BoF2's goal would be to kill Ted and Tia. They can't exactly do that however. What they can do is BoltX-> Kill Tia. This leaves Super NOT wanting to finish the fight until Chemist has revived Tia and the team has healed. So... BoltX -> Katt kills Tia -> Ninja Thwacks Deis -> Zerase MT Magics which leaves... Bow Jean Spar and Rand alive. Ted goes and either heals or tries to polish off people without KOing Rand (who is most durable). Probably polishing off and he has options. Chemist revives Tia. Rand kills Tia again... THis can go on until Chemist can revive Tia and someone gets a turn between him and Rand. PREFERABLY Ted so that Tia can be healed before the next grind.

Team Super vs. Jude, Cecilia (Wa1o), Brad Evans, Virigina, Dean and Clarissa- Jude, Virginia, and Clarissa need to work together to kill Chemist and Tia at least. Sacrifice may OHKO Chemist and Jude+Virginia can definitely kill Tia. These are Super's only revivers/resource replenishers and he's in a bad, bad place if they are gone with 3 more fights. Other options would be to blow up Zerase, Rob Turn Tia, and blow up Ted, giving only Ninja and Chemist turns before Brad and Cecilia go. Yeah, that works. Super isn't leaving this fight in a condition to beat the floor at least.

Did folks forget about Rob Turn?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Rob Turn is honestly kinda redundant there. Clarissa can OHKO pretty much anyone she wants with Sacrifice and the whole thing is all about the first turn damage. If they kill enough people, super just can't recover.

[Dhyerwolf]

Team Random passes.

Team Dude passes (While I question whether Rika's evade buffing would actually get Explosion- does it actually get special physical attacks in game or just basic physicals?- it wouldn't really be too relevant because her ability to murder enemy speed later on is too great)

Team Yoshi passes

Team Super | Ted (MT), Zerase, Chemist, Ninja, Tia
Speed ordered
Ninja- 125% Speed, 70% phys damage w/ 44% Paralysis (Assuming Power Sleeve), 90% HP
Tia- 118% Speed, 55% Pdur, lots of spells (MT being 13% average damage)
Zerase- 108% Speed, 60% Pdur, 83% MT usable thrice without getting any MP replenished
Ted- 106% Speed, ~75% Pdur, 1.4 MT overkill usable twice without getting any MP replenished
Chemist- 105% Speed, Low Range Revival, Ethers of some sort

Floor 7b: Did you say "Final Battle?"
Team Super vs. Katt, Rand, Bow, Nina2, Deis2, Jean, and Spar- Ninja>Deis>Katt>Super>Other Enemies. Not even sure Katt can take a hit from Ninja (evade unlisted. Only 77% HP and not good defense...so...let's say she dies. If she does not her attacking Ted and Deis can MT Ted away with everyone worse off). Deis IDs Ted. Zerase can MT; she and Tia can get out...Nina and Bow, but not Jean, Spar or Rand I think. Chemist can probably combine to get Jean at least (which seems necessary). Of course, someone will want to revive Ted, but they hope to do that later because they can't really take time out for this. Rand will heal Deis. Spar will do a variety of things (MT Damage if lackluster? Silence someone? Heal Rand a little?). Ninja can off Spar. Deis IDs Tia. Zerase can MT (Rand is gone now). Chemist can revive Ted. Ninja might as well eliminate Deis beacuse no other way it getting a leverage. Oh, chances are someone in BoF2 will not die and not lose their turn at some point too thanks to Guts.

Team Super vs. Jude, Cecilia (Wa1o), Brad Evans, Virigina, Dean and Clarissa- If the team comes in healed here, they are better off, but I don't see that happening much. As I saw them ending the last battle, this is pretty clear.
Team Super vs. Yuri2, Karin, Joachim, Gepetto, Anastasia, Kurando and Blanca- If they got here, this would be easy!
Team Super vs. Crono, Marle, Frog, Ayla, Magus, Robo and Lucca- Ayla and Magus are both faster than Zerase and Ted so even if the team got here, Ted is dying and everyone else is severaly damaged from Black Hole. Oh, and Crono can choose a different weapon and go at the same time, so then I think Zerase is the only one alive.
Team Super vs. Squall, Cecil, Terra, Cloud, Zidane and Aeonless Yuna- Zidane is 108% turn 1, so he can at least get Ted (and hey, speed is a questionable stat in both games, so it's not even like questionable FF 9 speed is robbing good spped). Not double checking, but most of these guys were averagish Mdur, so the MT blitz can't even get them all (and Yuna goes after Ninja, so Terra gets to live). Ted gone, Terra gets a turn, Squall will limit. Not sure this would end well either.

[dude789]

Team Dude passes (While I question whether Rika's evade buffing would actually get Explosion- does it actually get special physical attacks in game or just basic physicals?- it wouldn't really be too relevant because her ability to murder enemy speed later on is too great)

I don't see why it wouldn't get explosion. Explosion is subject to evasion in Pokemon and is a normal type move that runs off Attack. If you don't let Saner catch it that makes Pokemon into a giant interp mess of what constitutes a "normal" physical attack.