Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 108

[SnowFire]

I agree that even a harsh interp of Pokemon would likely be that only Normal type attacks are basic physicals, which is why dude is probably right.  However.  Still no PS4 here, but Random said in chat:

[02:22] <RandomKesaranPasaran> Since really for the evade boost to be worth anything at all against people that aren't like FE fighters you'd need to squint and go yeah sure this boosts the target's version of evasion
[02:23] <RandomKesaranPasaran> Since PS4 evade is actually kind of trashy for what it covers

If Saner's evade is actually not very relevant in-game, it might certainly be credible to say that no PKMN attacks count as PS4 basic physicals, and they all count as special moves.  I'd certainly see any non-Struggle PKMN move breaking WA1o boss evade, for example.  (It's only thanks to the DL I know that various WA1 bosses have 70% evasion or whatever, evasion that is totally worthless and invisible in-game since literally every single damage move you might seriously use in a boss fight ignores evasion.)  But...  not knowing PS4 well enough, I'm still personally defaulting to let Saner help here, unless some other people want to chip in about PS4 evade being super-narrow.

[superaielman]

Changing my vote to fail for my team.

[Dark Holy Elf]

PS4 evade covers regular physicals but no techs. I definitely think saying that only covers Struggle (which isn't even physical!) is too narrow. However, I can see ways to narrow it down a bit. One is to note that any MT attack in PS4 is sure to be a tech, and hence ITE. Since Explosion is MT, there's a good case for it ignoring PS4 evade. (Whereas something like Body Slam or Mega Punch would obviously be subject.)

[dude789]

I thought that boomerangs had a basic MT physical in PS4? Also I think Wren and Demi have a couple of shot weapons that have MT physicals.  I know the MT weapons can't crit, but if they run off the same hit formula than it's possible that they can miss (although unlike because PS4 enemy evade is awful).

If that's the case than I don't really see a reason why Explosion shouldn't be affected by Saner. Trying to divide Normal Physical pokemon moves into "basic phyiscals" and "techs" just turns things into an interpretive mess. In this case it's simplest to use the properties of the attackers move and Explosion runs smack into evasion just like almost every other Normal type move in pokemon regardless of whether it's MT or not.   

[Dark Holy Elf]

Good point about boomerangs/guns, that's entirely correct. PS4 enemies don't have any of those, so milage may vary of course.

[Dhyerwolf]

Explosion is pretty clearly not just a basic physical though. Limiting it to ST attacks with no major timing setup at the maximum (Explosion (MT), Hyper Beam (Charging), moves that last more than 1 turn are out because they just don't match the profile. Everything in Pokemon runs into evasion, so using as a distinction doesn't feel legit. Yukiko and Elincia's evasion is still okay because they are both comprehensive in game.

[Pyro]

does ps4 even have enemies with techs? I know some bosses have flat perfect hit rate.

The argument seems centered on whether PC techs ignore evade...

Also, would FFT generic averages save Super due to Ninja being faster?

[Dark Holy Elf]

does ps4 even have enemies with techs? I know some bosses have flat perfect hit rate.

Yes, e.g. Lashiec's Thunderhalberd and Dark Force's Flare Shot.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Team dude and Yoshi pass. Super fails. Not sure on Random.

[dude789]

Team dude and Yoshi pass. Super fails. Not sure on Random.

This works for my vote.