Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 109

[Nephrite]

"Ah... I hope you all enjoyed your time off! Things have changed a bit around here, I do so hope you enjoy them..."


Link to the Dungeon Wiki!

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**Full Heals reset limit and other types of gauges when teams pass through them.
**Characters that join after the start are locked into the relative stats they have at that time until they would officially join.

Team Random | Yuna (MT), Lucian, Shiho, Rune and Mew
[Mew: Psychic/Flamethrower/Reflect/Safeguard]
Floor 7a Elemental Ties that Bind 2
Team Random vs. Lich, Kraken, Kary and Tiamat
Team Random vs. Scarmiglione (FF4DS), Cagnazzo (FF4DS), Barbariccia (FF4DS) and Rubicante (FF4o)
Team Random vs. Profound Darkness and Dark Force 3

Team dude | Rika, Elincia, Mew, Yukiko, Nall (Elemental Advance)
[Mew: Return, Psychic, Swords Dance, Light Screen
Floor 5b: A Less Fair Fight
*Enemies on this floor have 1.5x Health
Team dude vs. Zio
Team dude vs. Dark Force 1
Team dude vs. Lashiec

Team Snowfire | Elincia, Yuna (MT), Arnaud, Stocke, Hawk
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team Snowfire vs. Big Joe, Evil Gaia, 10 Jogurts, VP1 Hrist, Euram Barrows, Gobi, DQ1 Slime, Garland and Yu Yevon with 1 HP
Team Snowfire vs. Cecil, Kain and Rosa
Team Snowfire vs. Augus and Joker (BoF2)

Team Yoshiken | Shadow, Ramza, Tidus, Elincia, Moulder (Vantage)
[Ramza: Wizard, Item, Auto Potion] [Chemist]
Floor 2a: Adventuring (Earlygame)
Team Yoshiken vs. Flay and Nikki
Team Yoshiken vs. Jack, Cecilia and Rudy(WA:ACF)
Team Yoshiken vs. Opera, Ernest, Leon Geeste and Celine
Team Yoshiken vs. Colm, Rennac and Matthew
Team Yoshiken vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5)


Multitarget - One person on the team's actions all become Multitargetted. However, the damage of regular attacks, the healing of all spells that restore HP or MP, the status rates of status spells or attacks and the effect of buffs or debuffs (rounded down to the nearest half point in the case of Pokemon) is reduced by 33%. (Deadly Fingertips has a 67% chance of inflicting ID for example) Moves that were originally MT are not affected by this. This sealstone may be moved. In the case of revival, this affects the amount of HP restored, not the chance of revival occuring. Moves that have two types of effects (healing + buffing) are both decreased.

Elemental Advance - Elemental weaknesses are removed for both the player and enemy team. Elemental spells and attacks cannot be absorbed, resisted, or nullified by enemies. If an elemental weakness were normally hit by a player character, that character may cast that same spell again against ONLY the targets that are weak to that spell.

Vantage Effect - Counterattack abilities activate before being attacked and also increases the chance of any counter attack activation skill to 100%.

[Random Consonant]

Team Random | Yuna (MT), Lucian, Shiho, Rune and Mew
[Mew: Psychic/Flamethrower/Reflect/Safeguard]
Floor 7a Elemental Ties that Bind 2
Team Random vs. Lich, Kraken, Kary and Tiamat - MT assault.

Team Random vs. Scarmiglione (FF4DS), Cagnazzo (FF4DS), Barbariccia (FF4DS) and Rubicante (FF4o) - Actually kind of interesting.  Safeguard to get rid of the status threats floating around in the fight, then throw up the originally MT NulBlaze.  Barbie needs a turn to spin, however, Milon is apparently average speed and Cagnazzo is below in practice... let's say Milon has a shot at beating out Lucian/Shiho for reasons of atb estimates for the sake of argument, their physicals sum up to a total of ~1.32 PCHP, but if their turns are split up by Shiho that doesn't matter.  However, if they don't and Shiho goes before the both of them then, okay, Rune does something, then Might Reinforce Lucian goes after... let's say Milon, it's F7, Rune has 3 shots of Legeon, I think he can afford to use one here, with Milon's holy weakness, that plus Lucian going after him should take him out.  Tsunami is useless in this fight (Tandle!) and Yuna can just NulBlaze forever to keep Rubi's threat in check, not that she needs to.  Edit: actually no, might be better to focus fire on Cagnazzo... which doesn't change much, since that means I can afford to ignore the first turn Safeguard (I doubt Cagny survives Psychic+Giwat+MR Lucian)

Team Random vs. Profound Darkness and Dark Force 3 - Oooooooh boy, this is fun.  DF3 HP is... signficant.  Significant enough to avoid one-rounding though?  He's weak to Light, which mean that Holy and Legeon alone do a number on him, and Psychic and Lucian assault are likely enough to take him down after that.  However, the MT spillover on PD isn't enough to take her into form 2, I think.  Which is good because while Shadow Breath *stings like a bitch* it's ST (as are the rest of form 1's attacks).  So if I blitz down DF3, she can take *someone* out, but I have three revivers, she's slow, and yeah.  So who does she go after?  Yuna/Rune/Mew all have above average magical durability, she can't OHKO them, Lucian can probably survive on HP alone... so that leaves Shiho.  So that means Yuna gets to throw up Shell for form 2 throwing out MT, and while form 2 also has a physical, Mew throws up Reflect to keep that from pasting Yuna.  Then comes form 3.  Which sports Dispel.  But is still slower than everyone here.  And can't kill anyone if she doesn't use it, and if she does use it I can just reapply the defensive buffs, Yuna basically doesn't have MP costs at this point, and Mew's... what, 15 shots of Reflect haven't been taxed enough that I can't just gear up and outlast.  Lucian physicals and Rune throwing out EFESS IS BEING USED WHOAH ensures that form 3 doesn't last long enough for it to be a problem, at any rate.

Team dude | Rika, Elincia, Mew, Yukiko, Nall (Elemental Advance)
[Mew: Return, Psychic, Swords Dance, Light Screen
Floor 5b: A Less Fair Fight
*Enemies on this floor have 1.5x Health
Team dude vs. Zio
Team dude vs. Dark Force 1
Team dude vs. Lashiec - Uh yeah Deban/Light Screen do a good job of handling these fights

Team Snowfire | Elincia, Yuna (MT), Arnaud, Stocke, Hawk
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team Snowfire vs. Big Joe, Evil Gaia, 10 Jogurts, VP1 Hrist, Euram Barrows, Gobi, DQ1 Slime, Garland and Yu Yevon with 1 HP - YUNA MT PHYSICAL HYPE WHOAH
Team Snowfire vs. Cecil, Kain and Rosa - Rosa is basically useless here, but it's still something of a slog due to defenses/time wasting, but not enough of one.
Team Snowfire vs. Augus and Joker (BoF2) - Edit: sure

Team Yoshiken | Shadow, Ramza, Tidus, Elincia, Moulder (Vantage)
[Ramza: Wizard, Item, Auto Potion] [Chemist]
Floor 2a: Adventuring (Earlygame)
Team Yoshiken vs. Flay and Nikki
Team Yoshiken vs. Jack, Cecilia and Rudy(WA:ACF)
Team Yoshiken vs. Opera, Ernest, Leon Geeste and Celine
Team Yoshiken vs. Colm, Rennac and Matthew
Team Yoshiken vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5)

[DjinnAndTonic]

I have no time right now to vote, but I gave it a quick glance and I love these new floor designs! This is exactly what I had in mind and exactly the kinda thing that'll make voting take less time, but still be interesting enough to bother looking everything up! Excellent! When I get some free time at work later tonight I can prolly take a good look at it. I'm excited!

[Dhyerwolf]

Team Random | Yuna (MT), Lucian, Shiho, Rune and Mew
[Mew: Psychic/Flamethrower/Reflect/Safeguard]
Floor 7a Elemental Ties that Bind 2
Team Random vs. Lich, Kraken, Kary and Tiamat- I don't think you need to have auto-win fights this late on 3 floor dungeons. Some of these people have 0.5 PC HP to things they don't wall.
Team Random vs. Scarmiglione (FF4DS), Cagnazzo (FF4DS), Barbariccia (FF4DS) and Rubicante (FF4o)- Yeah, Safeguard definitely shines here. Goodbye worrying about all those counters. This leaves a lot of ST attacks; most of which are hit by Reflect. I guess Null Fire might just cuts Fire damage by 2/3, which is more than sufficient. This is pretty easy.
Team Random vs. Profound Darkness and Dark Force 3- DF 3 plays well in a game. MT speed down is great and the team doesn't have a great way to counter this.

Dark Force 3 has 3 PC HP, but he does hate Holy. Of course, MT on Yuna here hurts. So 0.8 for Holy post weakness, 0.75 for Legion, .45 for Mew. Lucian before power buff is near OHKO, so yeah, he's gone. Shadowbreath eliminates Mew for fun (Make that Darkness weakness matter for once. I guess Shiho is the more logical kill). But yeah, agreeing that MT Yuna defensive spells work well enough here. When it does get to form 3 though, I guess Smite can at least serve to kill a few people. But not enough to really matter. Any team that fails to get DF 3 out before it gets a turn will face problems.

Team dude | Rika, Elincia, Mew, Yukiko, Nall (Elemental Advance)
[Mew: Return, Psychic, Swords Dance, Light Screen
Floor 5b: A Less Fair Fight
*Enemies on this floor have 1.5x Health
So I guess the key is here is that I don't scale down solo boss HP
Zio- 25 PC HP, 80% ITD Phys or Darkness Magic, 45-50% MT Dark Magic/Wind Phys
DF 1- 20 PC HPish, 75% MT% Phys or 80% Darkness Magic
Lashiec- 20 PC HPish, 75% MT Magic (and 60% MT Phys? Think one of his moves was actually physical), 90% ST Sleep

Rika- ST Full Healing (9 TP); 140 TP Total, 12 or so shots of average damage, then falls to about 2/3 average. Can MT buff Speed/Evade, Defense and Attack (Nasar is next floor), Revival
Yukiko- Diarahan, Medirama (Let's call this about 50%), Good ST Fire magic, Revival
Elincia- Good ST damage and evasion, lots of ST healing
Mew- Halve Magic Damage for Team for 5 Turns (30 Shots), Doubles Attack (30), Return (I'm assuming a mult of 55...30% average damage?) (20 Shots), 45% Magic Damage (10 Shots)

So yeah, obviously this becomes just a massive war of attrition, although less since the key is just going to be buffing.
Team dude vs. Zio- Saner. Zio uses MT so that Elincia can't really handle the healing. I guess Light Screen+Rika's defense buff really keep him damage down.
Team dude vs. Dark Force 1- Rika's defense buff does well enough here
Team dude vs. Lashiec- Oh boy, one of them finally figured out an actual different trick. He can sleep Rika and then have Yukiko basically cancel out his turn.

This floor definitely needs a bit of work. All three bosses play too identically. No OHKO, next to no status, none of them have any way to answer buffing.

Team Snowfire | Elincia, Yuna (MT), Arnaud, Stocke, Hawk
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team Snowfire vs. Big Joe, Evil Gaia, 10 Jogurts, VP1 Hrist, Euram Barrows, Gobi, DQ1 Slime, Garland and Yu Yevon with 1 HP
Team Snowfire vs. Cecil, Kain and Rosa- Rush Rosa. Cecil revives her with low HP. They need to eliminate Arnaud or Yuna, which evasion kind of prevents. Don't really see a lot of issues here or how's it's much of a slog.
Team Snowfire vs. Augus and Joker (BoF2)- This match is scary. Augus has 2.5 PC HP and obviously has the ability to make his damage very scary. Joker has excellent defense and Fire Res, so Arnaud is the key here. Joker has the borderline 3HKO MT, but it's also ITE. At least Arnaud can grab Slow Down now (at the cost of stats of course, because I don't think he's L10 coming into the fight, so he's giving up the Class Level). Can they pile enough on Augus to get him before his second turn. Stocke will have decent damage damage now, Hawk...let's say average. Throw in Elincia and yes, he's gone. And the fight goes down.

[Random Consonant]

Oh right, dark weakness means she can nail Mew as well.  Amusing but as you say it doesn't matter much.

As for Lashiec, stat topic claims Thunder Halberd is magical but Elfboy claims it's physical, so I dunno.

[Dhyerwolf]

Then it's physical.

[SnowFire]

Team dude sounds like it's entirely dependent on if Floor 5 Yukiko can spam powerful MT healing repeatedly while everyone else slogs the bosses down.  I presume this is true so pass (but if her healing isn't as good, or her MP is horribly limited, feel free to correct).

Team Snowfire | Elincia, Yuna (MT), Arnaud, Stocke, Hawk
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team Snowfire vs. Big Joe, Evil Gaia, 10 Jogurts, VP1 Hrist, Euram Barrows, Gobi, DQ1 Slime, Garland and Yu Yevon with 1 HP
I would like to point out that for those who ignore Yu Yevon's "trick" he is 119% average speed with a 10PCHP MT overkill or whatever, but Neph loves Yu Yevon, the Pope is Catholic, news at 11.  (Also yes Yuna MT Physical hype.)
Team Snowfire vs. Cecil, Kain and Rosa
Rosa gets murdered by Elincia horribly off a double.  I guess there's KAIN IS GOOD AGAINST VALVALIS = KAIN IS GOOD AGAINST ELINCIA hype but uh no, and he might well not have a OHKO on the fairly tanky F1 Elincia anyway even if he's given some arbitrary bonus, so.  Cecil is tanky but he isn't surviving long against this many people stacked against him.
Team Snowfire vs. Augus and Joker (BoF2)
Yeah, Slow Down is gettable by F1, which seals this fight by murdering Augus before he gets that second turn.

[Dhyerwolf]

Team dude sounds like it's entirely dependent on if Floor 5 Yukiko can spam powerful MT healing repeatedly while everyone else slogs the bosses down.  I presume this is true so pass (but if her healing isn't as good, or her MP is horribly limited, feel free to correct).

She's probably on Medirama, but the team has both infinite duration MT defense boost and 5 turn MT magic halving. Medirama will probably be sufficient with the other level of buffs the team is packing.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Team Random | Yuna (MT), Lucian, Shiho, Rune and Mew
[Mew: Psychic/Flamethrower/Reflect/Safeguard]
Floor 7a Elemental Ties that Bind 2
Team Random vs. Lich, Kraken, Kary and Tiamat - Egads, Yuna and Rune 2HKO the -universe-.
Team Random vs. Scarmiglione (FF4DS), Cagnazzo (FF4DS), Barbariccia (FF4DS) and Rubicante (FF4o) - Safeguard+Protect/Shell on demand, that's the name of the game. Barbie needing a turn to spin is kind of bad news, so is Yuna having Phantom Bangles to ruin a lot of shit. Also, holy crap the amount of Holy damage here.
Team Random vs. Profound Darkness and Dark Force 3 - Safeguard+Reflect+Guard Reinforce for the beginning of the fight. Blitzkrieg DF3 with the holy damage+Lucian spam. Then, Heal and blitzing let things work out.

Team dude | Rika, Elincia, Mew, Yukiko, Nall (Elemental Advance)
[Mew: Return, Psychic, Swords Dance, Light Screen
Floor 5b: A Less Fair Fight
*Enemies on this floor have 1.5x Health
Team dude vs. Zio - Hm. Deban+Light Screen mean Yukiko doesn't -have- to heal every turn. Zio is a bit below 3x PC HP - let's say 2.7x for the time being - so, 4.05x PC HP here. With Elincia doubles, this means she alone nearly 4HKOs him and that's assuming endgame numbers. This doesn't even give Zio time to dent those resources deeply at all. And I suspect all fights go pretty much the same way.
Team dude vs. Dark Force 1 - See above.
Team dude vs. Lashiec - And above. The sum of the fights can even cause trouble to Yukiko resources long-term, but worst comes to worst, Sar can support Yukiko a bit after buffs are in play, and Saner is positively brutal against such a slow cast of bosses.

Team Snowfire | Elincia, Yuna (MT), Arnaud, Stocke, Hawk
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team Snowfire vs. Big Joe, Evil Gaia, 10 Jogurts, VP1 Hrist, Euram Barrows, Gobi, DQ1 Slime, Garland and Yu Yevon with 1 HP - hahahahahaha. This is pretty funny, since lack of either durability, MT healing or MT period can make weaker parties struggle to a degree. This said, Yuna has MT healing, which... um yeah.
Team Snowfire vs. Cecil, Kain and Rosa - Elincia OHKO loops Rosa ad infinitum, I guess.
Team Snowfire vs. Augus and Joker (BoF2) - I honestly consider Slow Down still floor 1. Augus is -amazing- under that.

Team Yoshiken | Shadow, Ramza, Tidus, Elincia, Moulder (Vantage)
[Ramza: Wizard, Item, Auto Potion] [Chemist]
Floor 2a: Adventuring (Earlygame)
Team Yoshiken vs. Flay and Nikki - As usual, Nikki causes -issues- if the ID lands turn one, but let's not assume that. I suspect she borderline doubles Moulder if she goes for him, but that's a -waste of time- with Dorothy Beoulve lolling around. Elincia+Shadow manhandle Flay, Tidus and Dorothy end Nikki's life.
Team Yoshiken vs. Jack, Cecilia and Rudy(WA:ACF) - Elincia lol ohkos Ceci, rest of team goes to town.
Team Yoshiken vs. Opera, Ernest, Leon Geeste and Celine - These guys suck.
Team Yoshiken vs. Colm, Rennac and Matthew - Vantage Auto-Potion really takes the bite out of these guys.
Team Yoshiken vs. Killey (S2) and Lorelai (S5) - Welp. Coinflip evade and peggie mdur pretty much ensure Elincia gets turns here, no? She's probably -so good- early because of that level lead she starts with.

[Nephrite]

Yoshi's matches are up.

[SnowFire]

For Team Yoshi: Could Interceptor counter MT attacks in FF6?

Anyway, I think Team Yoshi passes, unless MK status persists after battle and Nikki can land some nasty status on Ramza.  All the opposing teams must take Ramza out, and he has a 70% chance of auto-potion and all, although hilariously enough Vantage makes it worse (Ramza would rather heal AFTER the attack and know if it triggered...).  The last fight has some vaguely competent MT but Team Yoshi has some fast members like Shadow to do some clobbering, and Ramza still quite possibly solos, so.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Only status Nikki can land ever is ID! Which is usually turn two, so your mileage may vary. Also, Vantage makes AP 100%.

[Dark Holy Elf]

For Team Yoshi: Could Interceptor counter MT attacks in FF6?

uhhh I think the only enemy MT physical in FF6 is Tentacle, and the only way for Shadow to face off against it is if Guardian uses the move. I want to say Interceptor can't be active against the move, but given how obscure this is I could very, very easily be wrong. i.e. someone ask Meeple.

[ThePiggyman]

For Team Yoshi: Could Interceptor counter MT attacks in FF6?

Anyway, I think Team Yoshi passes, unless MK status persists after battle and Nikki can land some nasty status on Ramza.  All the opposing teams must take Ramza out, and he has a 70% chance of auto-potion and all, although hilariously enough Vantage makes it worse (Ramza would rather heal AFTER the attack and know if it triggered...).  The last fight has some vaguely competent MT but Team Yoshi has some fast members like Shadow to do some clobbering, and Ramza still quite possibly solos, so.

Vantage makes the chance of Auto-Potion 100%, and although one might initially think Vantage makes Auto-Potion worse, I don't think it does. Although it means that any damage done at full HP won't be healed, it also means that any damage that could potentially kill Ramza might not kill him because the healing is going off first. Both are useful depending on the situation. They simply function slightly differently.

[superaielman]

Team Yoshi passes for precisely the reason Piggyman states.

Team Snowfire vs. Big Joe, Evil Gaia, 10 Jogurts, VP1 Hrist, Euram Barrows, Gobi, DQ1 Slime, Garland and Yu Yevon with 1 HP- I love this fight. My only concern would be hyping Evil Gaia waiting (He's quick IIRC), which could let him follow up Yu Yevon with a quick Howl to wipe out teams.
Team Snowfire vs. Cecil, Kain and Rosa- Yeah, FE fighters shred Rosa. Arnaud can finish off Rosa with a physical at worst.
Team Snowfire vs. Augus and Joker (BoF2)- Slow down, yeah.

[SnowFire]

Piggyman: It IS worse if AP has a 70% chance, since you could have issues like Ramza eats a 2HKO -> you either know if AP triggered or not and can heal Ramza if needed.  With AP triggering first, if Ramza isn't healed and AP "misses" on the second part of the 2HKO, Ramza dies, so essentially this can incite a more defensive, nervous healing policy.  That said, sure, I'm fine with seeing AP as being 100% too.  (I was thinking that the counter effect was already 100%, and the Brave check was a separate check, but that's a little cruel, so sure, 100%.)

super: Irrelevant for this fight, but for future note, Yu Yevon isn't "all damage from me isn't really fatal."  He's "All my opponents have Auto-Life and it gets recast on death."  It's a buff, there isn't any reason to think it goes away when Yevon dies - it certainly lasts from battle to battle against the Aeons.  The battle literally isn't losable from damage, it could be Yu Yevon with 1 HP + all Godlikes, Evil Gaia's Howl will ram into Yevon's Auto-Life.  (Best case scenario is something like Ultima to reduce everyone to critical, Yevon somehow dies, Howl to clear the last Auto-Life off, then the scrubs somehow manage to clear out characters at critical - which some of them fail to even do).

[Dark Holy Elf]

I'd agree with Super's kneejerk; pretty sure I'd only see Yu Yevon's Auto-Life active against Yu Yevon's attacks (it's distinctly NOT normal auto-life status, judging by the animation). You could argue me it works on his allies' attacks too but that makes the whole fight a pointless "well just kill Yu Yevon last lol" although I guess it grinds your HP down (and MP if Yu Yevon gets a limit turn). But in that case why even give Yu Yevon allies?

If the status does work on ally attacks, then I would definitely see the status evaporate immediately if Yu Yevon is killed, unlike you, but this is moot because nobody will kill him anything but last barring a berserker-type character.

[SnowFire]

Yu Yevon, making fights pointless, pick two.  The AL animation comes down on the *characters* not from Yevon's attacks, and you see it come back after he kills them, and the way Auto-Life works in every Final fantasy is that it doesn't matter who cast it, so eh.  Same as a boss who casts Protect on the other team for some reason having any support find their physicals do less damage.

The first fight is supposed to be the joke fight, and it is quite losable if the entire team starts in critical thanks to Yevon's speedy Ultima but the Auto-Life is not seen as affecting everyone.  Even if the battle isn't lost, with F1 revival & healing, it's possible that notable members of the party get offed irretrievably to set a team up for horrible failure on the final fight.

[Dark Holy Elf]

The fight's not losable if Auto-Life affects all attacks, which would make me wonder what the fight's point is (beyond maybe maybe losing MP from Osmose... but again, in that case, why have anyone BUT Yu Yevon present on the enemy side? They're all pointless due to Auto-Life). Basically I think either Neph needs to say exactly how Auto-Life works in this fight, OR the fight needs a redesign.

[SnowFire]

Well, Gobi can legally attack his own team and kill Yevon, so it's not quite unlosable.  But darn close.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Well, Gobi can legally attack his own team and kill Yevon, so it's not quite unlosable.  But darn close.

Fuck yes.

[Nephrite]

It was supposed to be an amusing fight, but definitely not something I considered unlosable. I suppose I'll just remove Yevon and replace him with someone more appropriate.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Rank Use Sinspawn Ammes!

[DjinnAndTonic]

Last I checked, Interceptor can counter MT physicals (since it's trivial to hack in MT physical attacks, it's a lot more common to come up in hacks).

Despite all my excitement about having time to look things up and posit interesting strategies for all the teams... this week ended up being pretty straightforward and not requiring me to look up much of anything.

in short, All Teams pass.