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Author Topic: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.  (Read 2905 times)

superaielman

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Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« on: May 16, 2013, 11:39:41 AM »
Godlike:

Isolde (MK)  vs Fou-Lu (BoF4)
Heat (DDS) vs Ryu (BoF3)
Menardi (GS) vs Melfice (G2)
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Lady (SH3)

Heavy:

Arc (AtLC) vs Lady Harken (WA1)
Raquel Applegate (WA4) vs Demi (PS4)
Valvalis (FF4) vs Luca Blight (S2)
KOS-MOS (XSs) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)

Middle:

Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs Peppita Rosetti (SO3)
Juan (S3) vs Hahn Mahlay (PS4)
Agrias Oaks (FFT) vs Justin (G1)
Nina (BoF1) vs Alice Elliot (SH1)

Light:

Shabon (S3) vs Erk (FE7)
Jaffar (FE7) vs Sara (BoF1)
Palom (FF4) vs Black Wizard (FF1)
Titania (FEs) vs Blastoise (PKMN)
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

superaielman

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2013, 11:49:18 AM »
Godlike:

Isolde (MK)  vs Fou-Lu (BoF4)- Kneejerk. I remember voting this way on site.
Heat (DDS) vs Ryu (BoF3)- Probably Ryu, but not 100% on this.  E: Right, Heat was weak to Thunder.
Menardi (GS) vs Melfice (G2)- Melfice should not have the blowout of the week in a season of Godlike champions. And not that it remotely matters, but Menardi can even be silenced. fail. 
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Lady (SH3)- Has the HP to survive Lady's crazy blitzing.

Heavy:

Arc (AtLC) vs Lady Harken (WA1)- Almost as bad a blowout as Melfice vs Menardi.
Raquel Applegate (WA4) vs Demi (PS4)- Not Demi's type of match.
Valvalis (FF4) vs Luca Blight (S2)- I'll stick with my first vote.
KOS-MOS (XSs) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)- Explode.

Middle:

Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs Peppita Rosetti (SO3)- Apparently Peppita is all physicals.
Juan (S3) vs Hahn Mahlay (PS4)- Vol or Eliminate.
Agrias Oaks (FFT) vsJustin (G1)- Better slugger.
Nina (BoF1) vs Alice Elliot (SH1)

Light:

Shabon (S3) vs Erk (FE7)- Has healing.
Jaffar (FE7) vs Sara (BoF1)- Even with Jaffar ripping off constant doubles, nah.
Palom (FF4) vs Black Wizard (FF1)- Superior status slinger.
Titania (FEs) vs Blastoise (PKMN)- Kneejerking that Withdraw's good enough to carry the day here. E: See Elfboy.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 01:21:19 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2013, 03:20:10 PM »
Godlike:

Isolde (MK)  vs Fou-Lu (BoF4): Fou-Lu falls a bit short against High Godlike mages.
Heat (DDS) vs Ryu (BoF3): Accesses both speed and lightning damage through dragon forms.
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Lady (SH3): Too much HP.

Heavy:

Raquel Applegate (WA4) vs Demi (PS4): Demi is only slightly faster than Rapid Attacking Raquel, and as soon as she gets 25 FP it's over.
Valvalis (FF4) vs Luca Blight (S2): Hmm, this is close. I'll hold off until I see the Luca fight again this week. edit: Luca's durability and evade are both a bit better than I remembered (in particular S2 weapon growth is back-ended), so I think that tilts it his direction.
KOS-MOS (XSs) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4): Explode.

Middle:

Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs Peppita Rosetti (SO3): Pass.
Juan (S3) vs Hahn Mahlay (PS4): Uhh... hmm. Y'know these days I do let S3 block sleep after all, and Juan with that wins. I don't really -like- this since I think Waking Rune makes Juan more unique... but eh. Doesn't really seem fair to Juan to nerf him specifically. And besides, the Waking Rune still has uses if he desperately needs to OHKO some fast tanky staller? Maybe? Anyway. Against Hahn, Juan's unfuried damage is certainly good enough for a OHKO.
Agrias Oaks (FFT) vs Justin (G1): Slightly better in most ways.
Nina (BoF1) vs Alice Elliot (SH1): Sanity concerns.

Light:

Shabon (S3) vs Erk (FE7): I don't think she's frail enough to die to two Erk attacks. She is pretty frail though...
Jaffar (FE7) vs Sara (BoF1): Sara's physical is both ITE and ignores BoF1 counters.
Palom (FF4) vs Black Wizard (FF1): Black Wizard stuff isn't close to turn 1, and he has bad MDef.
Titania (FEs) vs Blastoise (PKMN): Both 3HKO each other, Titania is faster. Withdraw doesn't help. It causes Blastoise to take 2/3 damage, but he gives up a turn, so he's still 4HKOed and needs 4 turns to win.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 05:54:05 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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superaielman

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2013, 03:26:35 PM »
You can't stack Withdraw?

E: Val is a fairly inept slugger. She's somewhere in the ballpark of a low 3HKO-4HKO depending on accuracy. Durability doesn't offset that when she's fighting someone with magical damage.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 03:30:12 PM by superaielman »
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<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2013, 03:33:26 PM »
You can, but the same caveat applies to subsequent uses of the move; they only pay off if you expect to live 3+ turns after.

Titania's base damage to Blastoise is about 36%. She goes first. If Blastoise uses Withdraw every turn, her damage will look like:

36%, 24%, 18%, 14%, 12%...

e.g. if he uses Withdraw twice then attacks three times, he gives Titania five attacks at 36+24+18x3 = 114% (fatal).

You can play with those numbers yourself, but basically Withdraw isn't helpful against faster 3HKOers ever.


edit: The documentation I've seen says Val is magic immune or close to it? I'm not sure what I think about that, but it means I certainly am not going to see her as weak to magic when that can't even be used against her in-game. Luca's using physicals here as far as I'm concerned.

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Yoshiken

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2013, 03:53:18 PM »
Isolde (MK) vs Fou-Lu (BoF4) - Isolde just has all the right tricks for this fight.

Palom (FF4) vs Black Wizard (FF1) - Better at the same thing.
Titania (FEs) vs Blastoise (PKMN) - NEB analysis says it all. Blastoise is too slow. :(

(Would Surf change Blastoise's chances, though? I'm still unsure on whether or not I allow HMs/store-bought TMs... Leaning no to both, though, which is why I'm voting Titania.)

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2013, 03:57:50 PM »
Surf and Hydro Pump are virtually identical on average damage, so no.

I'm pretty sure I do allow HMs as well.

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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2013, 04:02:54 PM »
Isolde Schelling (MK)  vs Fou-Lu (BoF4) - Magical, non-elemental Godlike-level offense against Fou-Lu. Yep.
Heat (DDS) vs Ryu (BoF3) - Ryu is faster. The end.
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Lady (SH3) - So much HP.

Arc Eda Ricolne (AtLC) vs Lady Harken (WA1) - Even off his crappy resources, Invincible is enough, especially once you factor in the fact he has Ice magic. Sooooooo
Raquel Applegate (WA4) vs Demi (PS4) - Blouses Intrude!
Valvalis (FF4) vs Luca Blight (S2) - My memory of using attack magic items with Rosa against Val: massive failure, just like physicals. Yeah, she gets the crazy evade on both ends to me.
KOS-MOS (XSs) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4) - Explodes.

Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs Peppita Rosetti (SO3) - Assuming he's faster, which induces to less headaches. I'm not sure Peppita can OHKO him with something above 95% speed - heck, I'm not sure she -has- damage-dealing options that are above 95% speed to me.
Juan (S3) vs Hahn Mahlay (PS4) - I allow Juan to block sleep. lol ohko.
Agrias Oaks (FFT) vs Justin (G1) - Agrias just isn't a great slugger.
Nina Wyndia (BoF1) vs Alice Elliot (SH1) - rofl alice and healers

Shabon (S3) vs Erk (FE7) - I'm pretty sure Shabon at least is better than 55~% mdur... probably not considerably so, though.
Jaffar (FE7) vs Sara (BoF1) - So much HP.
Palom (FF4) vs Black Wizard (FF1) - So much OHKO.
Titania (FEs) vs Blastoise (PKMN) - 3HKOs first.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 01:41:04 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
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[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
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Random Consonant

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2013, 04:22:07 PM »
Godlike:

Menardi (GS) vs Melfice (G2) - Menardi has absolutely nothing worth a damn here.
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Lady (SH3) - Technically not yet because ~*distractions*~ but I'd be surprised if Lady has even a sliver of an argument here.  Edit: and now that I've finished, there are no surprises.

Heavy:

Arc (AtLC) vs Lady Harken (WA1) - WA1o.
Raquel Applegate (WA4) vs Demi (PS4) - Smash.
Valvalis (FF4) vs Luca Blight (S2) - Somehow I would not actually be surprised if spinning jacked Barbie's MDef to hell despite it being only something like 12 at base but nothing I've seen supports it.  So, holding off. EDIT: Apparently FF4a Spin is glitched and does not work properly, fuck this shitfest to the highest heavens.
KOS-MOS (XSs) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4) - Explodes.

Middle:

Agrias Oaks (FFT) vs Justin (G1)
Nina (BoF1) vs Alice Elliot (SH1)

Light:

Palom (FF4) vs Black Wizard (FF1)
Titania (FEs) vs Blastoise (PKMN) - Withdrawl is nowhere near good enough to carry the day.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2013, 11:23:31 PM by Random Consonant »

Nephrite

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2013, 04:40:37 PM »
For whatever it's worth, if you powerlevel Cecil enough to get Rosa Holy, it doesn't work on Barbie when she's spinning. I assume this is the same in the GBA and DS versions, too.

Random Consonant

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2013, 04:52:23 PM »
Boot Barbie.

Nephrite

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2013, 04:57:29 PM »
Dumb question, KOS-MOS wasn't considered a non-biological in any Xenosaga, correct? Or, rather, I suppose I should ask if Explode could also hit mechanical things in PSIV.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2013, 04:58:53 PM »
Well, it -is- evade-based durability and there's dat offense. Kinda reminds me of Jade sans Rub and BoltX in Godlike. And to Neph: Explode hits mechanical beings in PS4.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
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Nephrite

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2013, 05:07:28 PM »
Godlike:

Isolde (MK)  vs Fou-Lu (BoF4)
Heat (DDS) vs Ryu (BoF3)
Menardi (GS) vs Melfice (G2)
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Lady (SH3) - I think she actually has enough durability to do this.

Heavy:

Arc (AtLC) vs Lady Harken (WA1) - Does ACF Harken win this?
Raquel Applegate (WA4) vs Demi (PS4) - Blech.
Valvalis (FF4) vs Luca Blight (S2) - I think I force her to go out of spin after a while.
KOS-MOS (XSs) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)

Middle:

Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs Peppita Rosetti (SO3) - Was there such a thing as a MT physical in Xenogears?
Juan (S3) vs Hahn Mahlay (PS4)
Agrias Oaks (FFT) vs Justin (G1)
Nina (BoF1) vs Alice Elliot (SH1)

Light:

Shabon (S3) vs Erk (FE7)
Jaffar (FE7) vs Sara (BoF1)
Palom (FF4) vs Black Wizard (FF1)
Titania (FEs) vs Blastoise (PKMN)

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2013, 05:13:58 PM »
ACF Harken loses to Arc too. Invincible => Ice magic => what is this i don't even
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

superaielman

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2013, 05:21:48 PM »
Okay, I'm wrong. It's not evasion or magic defense, magic just flat out fails. It's easy enough to test, you can use either items on her or weaponcast (Dancing Knife, Earth Hammer). Attempting to heal her has the same effect; it works when she's spinning and fails when she's not spinning. Spells will tell you when they miss in FF4, and even max Mdef enemies (Behemoths) will still take 1 damage from a spell.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 05:24:26 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2013, 05:33:56 PM »
You mean it fails when she's -spinning-?
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

superaielman

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2013, 05:43:30 PM »
Yep. Now I have no idea about the fight, both have issues damaging the other. E: Adding to the fun of this, spin doesn't work in 4a! I don't vote off that form at least.

E: Chaz also had Brose, Neph.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 05:58:02 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2013, 06:04:46 PM »
As a rule of thumb, all FF4 ranked bosses want you to please pretty please with a cherry on top forget that FF4a exists. And Brose isn't really relevant, Explode hits both biological and mechanical enemies.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2013, 08:54:26 PM »
Heavy:

Valvalis (FF4) vs Luca Blight (S2) - surewhynot

Middle:

Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs Peppita Rosetti (SO3) - I really don't respect the "Ramsus spams counter stance forever entirely unlike what he does in-game."  Rather, if that is allowed, then FF7 Guard Scorpion should be a Heavy, and nobody has any problems sticking him in Light, so yeah.  (Maybe Ramsus outslugs anyway but kneejerking no.)
Agrias Oaks (FFT) vs Justin (G1) - Though Agrias clearly has an argument.
Nina (BoF1) vs Alice Elliot (SH1)

Light:

Shabon (S3) vs Erk (FE7)
Jaffar (FE7) vs Sara (BoF1) - I'm actually tempted to hype Jaffar's ID here (he has it, right?), but what's the rate?  Can it trigger before Jaffar dies?  Sara can be afflicted by HP-1, sort of (if you save the D-HURT for her rather than Zog inexplicably), so not really inclined to hype her as immune when Jaffar's ID works on like all but 2 bosses in FE7.  EDIT: Apparently Jaffar's ID is pretty questionable here, so no.
Palom (FF4) vs Black Wizard (FF1)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 03:54:46 AM by SnowFire »

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2013, 08:58:17 PM »
Godlike:

Isolde (MK)  vs Fou-Lu (BoF4)
Heat (DDS) vs Ryu (BoF3)
Menardi (GS) vs Melfice (G2)
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Lady (SH3)- Later

Heavy:

Arc (AtLC) vs Lady Harken (WA1)
Raquel Applegate (WA4) vs Demi (PS4)
Valvalis (FF4) vs Luca Blight (S2)- Oh god, can't take Spin that seriously when it has such an easy way to get around it in game. Think on this
KOS-MOS (XSs) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)

Middle:

Kahran Ramsus (XG) vs Peppita Rosetti (SO3)- I'm sure that Peppita has some decent enough attack better than 95% average speed.
Juan (S3) vs Hahn Mahlay (PS4)
Agrias Oaks (FFT) vs Justin (G1)
Nina (BoF1) vs Alice Elliot (SH1)

Light:

Shabon (S3) vs Erk (FE7)
Jaffar (FE7) vs Sara (BoF1)
Palom (FF4) vs Black Wizard (FF1)
Titania (FEs) vs Blastoise (PKMN)
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2013, 09:03:24 PM »
I'd say Sara's weakness to D.Hrt would translate to a dragon weakness rather than an ID weakness (which is already reflected if she fights, say, Arngrim). BoF1 has an instant death spell and it doesn't work on Sara. What's more, what boss is it that is immune to Jaffar's ID? A dragon... which doesn't exactly help any plotty/holistic arguments here, to my mind!

Anyway Jaffar's ID is half his crit rate. His crit rate taken literally against 10 luck should be 38%, so 19% ID. That should be good enough as he'll get in six attacks. Of course, this assumes you don't reduce FE crit further the way Dhyer does, and that you don't give Sara at the very least the gate/throne-bonus level resistance to Jaffar's ID (which also halves it). So he really needs a lot of calls in his favour here.

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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2013, 09:38:43 PM »
Man, Guard Scorpion sucks with that counter stance anyway. <_< Doesn't stop him from being damaged, which Ramsus' stance at least manages, and that thing's damage is like borderline 3-4HKO territory. I don't think anyone disalliws it from being spammed, it's just trashy and doesn't stop him from being a crap Light, since in addition to all that, Guard Scorpion is also kinda slow and pretty frail. Comitting turns to a shoddy counter doesn't really amount to much of anything.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2013, 03:53:39 AM »
Elf: Okay, yeah, fair enough, no worky on Dragon = no worky on Dragon.  It was a thought.

Jo'ou: I dunno about "everyone" allowing Guard Scorpion to spam its counter stance, or at least some people who do also penalize GS holistically for sucking (aka all those wasted Search Scope turns).  The Guard Scorp notes were on the old boards, but checking a FAQ...  GS halves all physical damage in his counter stance, reduces magic damage a bit more, and has 800 HP, which ain't bad when his Lightning weakness isn't baked in and is only facing 2 characters.  (Unless you use Elf-style always assume 3.5 PC characters or the like.)  I also seem to recall his counter being a high 3HKO, not a 3-4HKO.  So yeah, GS with spammable Tail Up is potentially badass depending on interp - I can easily see him as ~2 PCHP, which becomes 4 PCHP for physical sluggers without Lightning to try and hack through.  No idea what his speed is, since they'd obviously like to get a hit in before the defense buff & counter.  (Of course, due to the hilarity that is NR Light, GS does okay there anyway, but against "special" opposition.)  Heavy might be too much, but he surely ends up a decent Middle with that, and he'll even beat some mages without healing or buffing too in Middle if they're too frail or slow.  (Of course, I am perfectly happy if you think GS is Light, as I certainly agree.  Although I do think his counter stance comes in handy vs. bosses / berserkers...  I think he beat RIEV that way.  Stupid FE bosses suicide attacking!)

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season of Champions week 1: Infinite AtLC hype.
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2013, 03:57:02 AM »
Guard Scorpion is also kinda slow and pretty frail.

As is Ramsus! (Okay, frail for a boss at least)
...into the nightfall.