Author Topic: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.  (Read 3928 times)

Lance

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2013, 10:43:10 PM »
Godlike
Melfice (G2) vs Profound Darkness (PS4)
Myria (BoFs) vs Piastol (SoA)

Heavy
Luca Blight (S2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Claude Kenni (SO2) vs Billy Lee Black (XG)

Middle
Peppita Rosetti (SO3) vs Juan (S3)
Justin (G1) vs Nina (BoF1)
Max (SF1) vs Delita Hyral (FFT)

Light
Shabon (S3) vs Sara (BoF1)
Palom (FF4) vs Titania (FEs)
Ricardo Gomez (SH3) vs FuSoYa (FF4)

Pyro

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2013, 01:29:08 AM »
Godlike:

Isolde (MK) vs Ryu (BoF3): Not much of a fight.
Melfice (G2) vs Profound Darkness (PS4): And again.
Sephiroth (FF7) vs Jenna Angel (DDS): Her formchain is nasty. SMT finals tend to be sadistic.
Myria (BoFs) vs Piastol (SoA): Piastol wins speed and damage. Myria wins durability. By enough? Probably... not?

Heavy:

Arc (AtLC) vs Raquel Applegate (WA4): Open with Weak Enemy (if he tries an Invincible Rush she'll probably just defend through it since his magic damage sucks). Her first action would be Moonlight to generate 25 FP. Then Arc goes under Invincible and gets another turn because Raquel gives up a 3-2 to average. He'll use that to use some magic. Then she'll Intrude->Moonlight away the Weak Enemy (it falls based on her turns) and use Defend. At this point if Arc ever leaves an Invincible turn to Raquel he is dead. That said... he can use L1 Invincible and wait for doubles. If she attacks to trigger Rapid Attack he'll counter and eventually get her. Uh... Tend to think Arc wins, but cool fight. It'd be Raquel's easy if not for Invincible.
Luca Blight (S2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4): If he only had Def buffing.
Elc (AtLC) vs Ted (S4): Invincible and Mind Buster and so on. Also Elc can tank a Judgement.
Claude Kenni (SO2) vs Billy Lee Black (XG): Billy is 93% PCHP. His Defense "increases damage by 15". So I guess about... ~86% durability.  Claude does either 80.7% damage or 91% according to Dhyer.

But Claude can just use his physical for the stun and then finish off Billy if it triggers? Works.

Middle:

Peppita Rosetti (SO3) vs Juan (S3): If no Turn 1 status then this is Juan's fight.
Justin (G1) vs Nina (BoF1): She can't guard against ID and he's... immune to paralysis? I guess.
Rutee Katrina (ToD) vs Antenora (WA2): Guess I'll just go with the flow on this one.
Max (SF1) vs Delita Hyral (FFT): I rather suspect Max is a complete Tank. But yeah he probably wins on most fronts here.

Light:

Shabon (S3) vs Sara (BoF1)
Palom (FF4) vs Titania (FEs): Erm... not sure how I take Palom. Probably wins?
Ricardo Gomez (SH3) vs FuSoYa (FF4)
Lieza (AtLC) vs Rikku (FFX): Instant Death.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 03:07:05 PM by Pyro »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2013, 02:15:59 AM »
Billy can't buff defence.

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superaielman

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2013, 02:14:00 PM »
I definitely don't remember any of Vinsfeld's minions being good on damage, though it's been a long time. HP Max felt like the best of the personal skills.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2013, 04:20:13 PM »
They are, at least, good on damage for WA2 bosses! This doesn't say very much, though.

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Clear Tranquil

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2013, 04:59:48 PM »
Frozen Daggers, Magic Hook and Instanto Blast are definitely evadable physicals. Panic Dance definitely -isn't-, it's not even a physical. Kaboom YMMV bypasses enemy AGL/evade on higher SO3 modes/vs enemies with high AGL (like Solon and his 9999 AGL in the arena) ~

Hmm @ Dhyer sounds right, page two has the status hit rates for chain skills and other stuff like per use vs enemy status resist. Nel and Peppita can use one Ice Daggers and three Frozen Daggers respectively without Berserk and if I recall correctly three and five respectively, for Nel a total of 9 hits (3x3) and 20 (4 x 5) for Peppita without factoring in evade. Taking evade into consideration is fair and I think and I also take in individuals basic/innate status resist if any. Depends on a person's definition of turn 1 status I guess, over 50% works for me but I understand other people take the threshold higher~

Adray and Sophia have the best freezes since at least they don't have to worry about evades >_>

Panic Dance on the other hand is 50% chance of chaos/confusion at level 1 vs final dungeon enemies and she can use it 8 times in a chain with Berserk. At skill level 10 it's 100% confusion even with only one use. With enemies with low status resist it's 84% a tick and at skill L10 it has a total of 38 ticks. It's an evil, evil status skill~ As far as I'm concerned Juan definitely has to block both Sleep and Confuse, and I'm not sure I'd allow him to do that/how I feel on Yellow Scarfs to be honest. If Juan has like 50%~ evasion to the physical statuses fair enough though~
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 05:11:09 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2013, 06:33:03 PM »
Juan can't block Confuse and, honestly, if you allow him to go Yellow Scarf, it's irrelevant because faster OHKO. Same situation that happened with Raven when this was last relevant. Peppita kinda doesn't beat people who OHKO her. >_>
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Clear Tranquil

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2013, 07:31:39 PM »
Maybe she probably shouldn't be in her division then~ (Meru like durability?~)
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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2013, 07:40:51 PM »
No, Juan offense is just nasty as fuck. Keep in mind that Yellow Scarf Juan is a champ-calibur Heavy for pure offense and speed, and Peppita's durability is -way- better than Meru, but she's still below average, close to being 2HKOed by average damage.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2013, 08:22:04 PM »
All of Peppita's status was evadeable physical right? Juan had some evasion, though I think it cost him either some damage or concrete durability to go that route.

Juan has some evasion but...most of it can't be accessed while sleeping (Armor Protect can). So that wouldn't be a problem.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2013, 10:34:09 PM »
Heavy:

Arc (AtLC) vs Raquel Applegate (WA4)- Yeah, this is a place where I would see ATL 2 counters kicking in (I guess I pretty much don't see it kicking in against FE, but most others)
Luca Blight (S2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Elc (AtLC) vs Ted (S4)
Claude Kenni (SO2) vs Billy Lee Black (XG)- So, I agree that on pure damage, Claude OHKOs turn 1...but...over 9 hits, Billy may evade 1. He has 16% evade, Claude has some above average accuracy. I guess it becomes a question of what Claude reduces him too.

Granted, Claude's basic physical does heal lock him and is fast as hell. Billy isn't even getting attack opportunities with that in play, and eventually he won't evade an attack.

Middle:

Peppita Rosetti (SO3) vs Juan (S3)- Turn 1 Freeze, he doesn't get to evade
Justin (G1) vs Nina (BoF1)
Rutee Katrina (ToD) vs Antenora (WA2)- Gut highly says Antenora's status wins it out. Her durability is pretty solid
Max (SF1) vs Delita Hyral (FFT)

Light:

Shabon (S3) vs Sara (BoF1)
Palom (FF4) vs Titania (FEs)- Scaling in AS makes this clear enough
Ricardo Gomez (SH3) vs FuSoYa (FF4)
Lieza (AtLC) vs Rikku (FFX)
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Nephrite

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2013, 06:38:02 PM »
Godlike:

Isolde (MK) vs Ryu (BoF3)
Melfice (G2) vs Profound Darkness (PS4)- The good news: Melfice is much faster. The bad news: Everything else.
Sephiroth (FF7) vs Jenna Angel (DDS)- E: See Elfboy.
Myria (BoFs) vsPiastol (SoA)- Mmm, I think going first and the damage gap makes up for Myria being much more durable.


Heavy:

Arc (AtLC) vs Raquel Applegate (WA4)- Think so. Weak enemy's quite good.
Luca Blight (S2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)- Heal lock. Don't think Chaz has any notable buffs that help here, and he has no evasion on his end to slow down Luca's physicals.
Elc (AtLC) vs Ted (S4)- Invincible.
Claude Kenni (SO2) vs Billy Lee Black (XG)- Uh. Mmm. I think Claude just manages the OHKO. If he doesn't, Billy likely takes the fight.

Middle:

Peppita Rosetti (SO3) vs Juan (S3- Kneejerk.
Justin (G1) vs Nina (BoF1)- ID. Nina can annoy Justin but can't really hurt him.
Rutee Katrina (ToD) vs Antenora (WA2)- Rotates between damage and healing. A lucky status could take the fight, but it's not enough to get me to switch votes.
Max (SF1) vs Delita Hyral (FFT)- Faster and more durable. Has more damage as well thanks to the array of superscrubs in the SF1 cast. Max doesn't have any variety, but he is really good within his limits.

Light:

Shabon (S3) vs Sara (BoF1)- Low Sara respect.
Palom (FF4) vs Titania (FEs)- Status. I take Titania against either full Laguz average or no Laguz, so her speed's not that great.
Ricardo Gomez (SH3) vs FuSoYa (FF4)- Statusy doom.
Lieza (AtLC) vs Rikku (FFX)- Overdrive. Not like either fighter is going to remotely threaten the other in the meantime.

Monkeyfinger

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2013, 01:17:25 AM »
As usual, not voting on the one sided matches where I agree with the hive mind

Godlike:

Isolde (MK) vs Ryu (BoF3): Grand gaze should handle IRT Kaiser well enough. It's a timed card move that does a bunch of stun damage. IRT Kaiser only has enough AP for 4 attacks, and he's going to lose 1 or 2 of them from being stunned, so this form just doesn't have enough offense to kill Isolde. Any other dragon form is just going to get outslugged, and as soon as Ryu reverts he gets a bunch of timed cards + bunker dropped on him which secures a kill. I'd see the protector shield cutting stun damage in half but that's not sufficient, since there's just so damn much stun damage once there are multiple grand gazes running.
Myria (BoFs) vs Piastol (SoA): Better overall stats, I feel.

Middle:

Peppita Rosetti (SO3) vs Juan (S3): Kneejerk
Max (SF1) vs Delita Hyral (FFT): My levels going through FFT's were quite a bit behind the stat topics (20-25 range by Altima) so I tend to see the late game guests like Delita as quite strong. He outslugs max.

Light:

Shabon (S3) vs Sara (BoF1)
Palom (FF4) vs Titania (FEs)

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2013, 01:24:33 AM »
If you see Protectors halving stun, then Kaiser/Tiamat should do the same if not null it, since they have a more potent version of the same resistance. Ryu does lose should you see him being stunned at a decent rate anyway, though, certainly.

Delita's level is based off yours so going through FFT at different levels shouldn't significantly affect your view of him.

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Monkeyfinger

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2013, 01:32:15 AM »
hm, why did Delita feel so much stronger than my PCs then? Is there JP scaling? Just a consequence of not having finished the really powerful class combos?

Does kaiser's resistance stack with a protector?

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2013, 01:42:16 AM »
If I recall correctly, BoF3 resistances are cumulative, so yes.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2013, 02:42:18 AM »
Kaiser's resistance should overwrite Protectors, I think (BoF 3 Dragons don't get equip bonuses) as NEB noted is arguably just Stun immunity anyways (can't remember if any MK bosses were effectively stunnable).
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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2013, 03:25:36 AM »
hm, why did Delita feel so much stronger than my PCs then? Is there JP scaling? Just a consequence of not having finished the really powerful class combos?

Could be. A second offhand guess is it has something to do with the damage formula (someone can correct me on this). IIRC, PA matters more at lower range. So the difference between 17-18 PA probably isn't much, but the difference between 7-8 PA is. This matters because Delita is auto-locked to a Bracer in his last guest appearance. So if you were running physicals and your PA was at a relatively low level, that could be it.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2013, 05:20:23 AM »
Yeah, the Bracer is relatively more important at low levels, that is true. (Though it's not like you can't have them on your own PCs.) Delita shouldn't be dramatically (i.e. 2x or more) above your average damage regardless unless you're running some very low-damage setups. Enough to 2HKO Max? Eh, the SF1 stat topic is a bit of a mess so I wouldn't fight anyone who kneejerked that being the case, even if my kneejerk goes the other direction.

Protectors don't have to stack with Kaiser/Tiamat because the latter raise resistance to the "immunity" level.

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superaielman

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Re: Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2013, 01:54:40 PM »
Updating tomorrow, get your votes in now!
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