Season of Champions week 3: Melfice may be slightly overmatched.

[superaielman]

Sephiroth>Ghaleon
Jenna>Kuja
Myria>Kefka
Piastol 5, Zophar 4 (Bot tiebreak)

Elc>Dario
Ted>Jowy
Claude 6, Kato 5
Billy>Decus


Rutee>Nash
Antenora 6, Venusaur 3
Max>Yulie
Delita>Lin

Ricardo>Garet
FuSoYa>Rena
Lieza>Tengaar
Rikku>Hellion

Godlike:

Isolde (MK) vs Ryu (BoF3)
Melfice (G2) vs Profound Darkness (PS4)
Sephiroth (FF7) vs Jenna Angel (DDS)
Myria (BoFs) vs Piastol (SoA)


Heavy:

Arc (AtLC) vs Raquel Applegate (WA4)
Luca Blight (S2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Elc (AtLC) vs Ted (S4)
Claude Kenni (SO2) vs Billy Lee Black (XG)

Middle:

Peppita Rosetti (SO3) vs Juan (S3)
Justin (G1) vs Nina (BoF1)
Rutee Katrina (ToD) vs Antenora (WA2)
Max (SF1) vs Delita Hyral (FFT)

Light:

Shabon (S3) vs Sara (BoF1)
Palom (FF4) vs Titania (FEs)
Ricardo Gomez (SH3) vs FuSoYa (FF4)
Lieza (AtLC) vs Rikku (FFX)

[superaielman]

Godlike:

Isolde (MK) vs Ryu (BoF3)
Melfice (G2) vs Profound Darkness (PS4)- The good news: Melfice is much faster. The bad news: Everything else.
Sephiroth (FF7) vs Jenna Angel (DDS)- E: See Elfboy.
Myria (BoFs) vsPiastol (SoA)- Mmm, I think going first and the damage gap makes up for Myria being much more durable.


Heavy:

Arc (AtLC) vs Raquel Applegate (WA4)- Think so. Weak enemy's quite good.
Luca Blight (S2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)- Heal lock. Don't think Chaz has any notable buffs that help here, and he has no evasion on his end to slow down Luca's physicals.
Elc (AtLC) vs Ted (S4)- Invincible.
Claude Kenni (SO2) vs Billy Lee Black (XG)- Uh. Mmm. I think Claude just manages the OHKO. If he doesn't, Billy likely takes the fight.

Middle:

Peppita Rosetti (SO3) vs Juan (S3- Kneejerk.
Justin (G1) vs Nina (BoF1)- ID. Nina can annoy Justin but can't really hurt him.
Rutee Katrina (ToD) vs Antenora (WA2)- Rotates between damage and healing. A lucky status could take the fight, but it's not enough to get me to switch votes.
Max (SF1) vs Delita Hyral (FFT)- Faster and more durable. Has more damage as well thanks to the array of superscrubs in the SF1 cast. Max doesn't have any variety, but he is really good within his limits.

Light:

Shabon (S3) vs Sara (BoF1)- Low Sara respect.
Palom (FF4) vs Titania (FEs)- Status. I take Titania against either full Laguz average or no Laguz, so her speed's not that great.
Ricardo Gomez (SH3) vs FuSoYa (FF4)- Statusy doom.
Lieza (AtLC) vs Rikku (FFX)- Overdrive. Not like either fighter is going to remotely threaten the other in the meantime.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Godlike:

Isolde (MK) vs Ryu (BoF3): Easy.
Melfice (G2) vs Profound Darkness (PS4): Also easy.
Sephiroth (FF7) vs Jenna Angel (DDS): Flying owns Bhairava, it's clearly melee. Jenna not very good past that.


Heavy:

Luca Blight (S2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4): Yeah, Chaz can only get his pdur to about 1.4 while halving fire, which isn't enough. (Luca has no accuracy problems.) And even then he might run out of resources.
Claude Kenni (SO2) vs Billy Lee Black (XG): Kneejerk his damage is enough. Lower opinion on some other PCs' best damage helps Claude here.

Middle:

Peppita Rosetti (SO3) vs Juan (S3): Yeah I really doubt evadable physical status hits Juan turn 1, and he may just OHKO himself.
Justin (G1) vs Nina (BoF1): Blocks Hold, gets slowed and blinded, but wins before succumbing to Nina One damage.
Max (SF1) vs Delita Hyral (FFT): ehhh sure

Light:

Shabon (S3) vs Sara (BoF1): Um yeah, Shabon's durability is horrible outside evade and Sara has ITE physicals. This doesn't seem terribly close to me.
Palom (FF4) vs Titania (FEs): Has enough damage.
Ricardo Gomez (SH3) vs FuSoYa (FF4): Ricardo, not so much.

[Random Consonant]

Godlike:

Melfice (G2) vs Profound Darkness (PS4) - Indeed.

Heavy:

Arc (AtLC) vs Raquel Applegate (WA4) - Raquel lacks a good answer to Weak Enemy.
Luca Blight (S2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4) - Chaz just has issues.
Claude Kenni (SO2) vs Billy Lee Black (XG) - Claude misses the OHKO and I think I can get on board with Billy outslugging from there.

Middle:

Justin (G1) vs Nina (BoF1) - Sure.
Rutee Katrina (ToD) vs Antenora (WA2) - Respect for Antenora's nonsense goes elsewhere.
Max (SF1) vs Delita Hyral (FFT) - Probably.

Light:

Palom (FF4) vs Titania (FEs) - Smash.
Ricardo Gomez (SH3) vs FuSoYa (FF4) - Status of some form or another.
Lieza (AtLC) vs Rikku (FFX) - Stall until OD

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Isolde Schelling (MK) vs Ryu (BoF3) - Ryu3 and getting a turn.
Melfice (G2) vs Profound Darkness (PS4) - Let us engage in hearty lols.
Sephiroth (FF7) vs Jenna Angel (DDS) - Speaking of lols. Bhairava being melee makes Jenna suck against Fly.

Arc Eda Ricolne (AtLC) vs Raquel Applegate (WA4) - Weak Enemy: what really makes Arc a high-profile Heavy.
Luca Blight (S2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4) - Chaz really needed more speed without the buffing to overwhelm Luca's slugging.
Elc (AtLC) vs Ted (S4) - Elc is faster first turn and -will- win a slugfest if Ted attempts Silent Lake. Mind Buster takes care of any looming Judgment threats.
Claude Kenni (SO2) vs Billy Lee Black (XG) - Don't think I get in board with the OHKO. Especially not with Billy's modest, but noticeable evade.

Peppita Rosetti (SO3) vs Juan (S3) - Man, he probably just OHKOs.
Justin (G1) vs Nina (BoF1) - Spoooooooil.
Rutee Katrea (ToD) vs Antenora (WA2) - Rutee lacks an answer to being 2HKOed while playing against status odds. Doesn't help that she fears three of them.
Max (SF1) vs Delita Hyral (FFT) - Not sure if -more durable- flies, but he's durable enough to avoid the 2HKO and he probably needs nothing else.

Shabon (S3) vs Sara (BoF1) - Shabon gets easily 2HKOed by Sara with anything and she can't even count on the evade. No.
Palom (FF4) vs Titania (FEs) - fweem
Ricardo Gomez (SH3) vs FuSoYa (FF4) - Ricardo isn't very good at winning fights in a single turn.
Lieza (AtLC) vs Rikku (FFX) - Lieza doesn't like the Overdrives much.

[superaielman]

Antenora doesn't even 2HKO average and Rutee's barely below average durability. She can also block poison as well.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Meeple's HP average is way too high, I'm not going to factor the HP Up PSes to that extent, and she -did- 2HKO average in my own playthrough. Nobody fears poison, but silence, disease and sleep all fuck Rutee beyond belief.

[SnowFire]

Jo'ou: So what PSs did you invest in?  Pretty much all of them are bad for Antenora, more damage kills her faster, status resistance is very good in-game (even if it doesn't translate to the DL), and HP-up is obvious.  Kinda hard to go too wrong (unless you get the PS's like RESTORE HP ON LEVEL UP).

--

Myria (BoFs) vs Piastol (SoA) - Only Myria1 for me.

Heavy:

Claude Kenni (SO2) vs Billy Lee Black (XG)

Middle:

Peppita Rosetti (SO3) vs Juan (S3) - Doesn't Peppita have turn 2 ID?  If she gets OHKO'd she loses sure, but eh.  Kaboom -> Berserk punches -> Kaboom.  EDIT: Okay fine I'll buy the OHKO post-status attempt.
Justin (G1) vs Nina (BoF1)

Light:

Palom (FF4) vs Titania (FEs)
super, FWIW, I'd quite possibly see FE9 Titania as winning this anyway; at least equal-XP topic Titania certainly has an argument, as she's average damage and mildly above average speed, and should easily smash Palom on a double, and the FF4a topic antihypes Palom speed pretty hard.
Ricardo Gomez (SH3) vs FuSoYa (FF4)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Jo'ou: So what PSs did you invest in?  Pretty much all of them are bad for Antenora, more damage kills her faster, status resistance is very good in-game (even if it doesn't translate to the DL), and HP-up is obvious.  Kinda hard to go too wrong (unless you get the PS's like RESTORE HP ON LEVEL UP).

I'm saying that and I DID invest my skill points on HP Up -and- my HP was still considerably lower than Meeple's. I'm not sure how he applied the points, but there -are- ways to game the SP system to maximize HP gains, so that kind of crap explains differences. Not to mention the damage up PSes are crap, they apply to like BASIC PHYSICALS which are complete trash.

Also, if you force Juan to not Yellow Scarfing the Waking Rune, he BLOWS HER UP. He overkills average with a berserk'd string and she's below that. His OHKO is only arguable -without- it, and Kaboom takes him out of sleep to boot.

[Clear Tranquil]

Is S3 Yellow Scarf complete status immunity?

[SnowFire]

It doesn't stop the extremely extremely rare Suikoden 3 enemy ID.  Gets everything else notable though, I believe; I think someone hyped some obscure maybe-a-status that ignores it, but they'll chime in if it's relevant.  (Some people are harsher on it; there aren't that many statuses in S3, so the harsh version has it be pretty meh.)  That said, as per below, it's not clear Juan wants to wear one anyway.

Jo'ou: It shouldn't matter, right?  Unless Peppita's other status options have a better hit rate, Juan *wants* to drop the Yellow Scarf anyway and hope to get the OHKO.  I was leaning toward him not getting it, but I'll check and see just how overkilly the stat topic claims it to be.

[Random Consonant]

There are ways to go about using HP Plus other than getting it as soon as possible for all concerned?  It's what I did and my recollection of HP figures are closer to what Meeple used rather than Antenora 2HKOing people who weren't Tim of the cast-worst HP, so sympathy not found.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Jo'ou: It shouldn't matter, right?  Unless Peppita's other status options have a better hit rate, Juan *wants* to drop the Yellow Scarf anyway and hope to get the OHKO.  I was leaning toward him not getting it, but I'll check and see just how overkilly the stat topic claims it to be.

Okay, for reasons of different standards back then (not allowing YS makes tweaking for durability his better option), Juan isn't sporting damage, which jumps his average damage to 1514 or so. That's roughly 85% PC HP. On HP alone, Peppita is 0.9 pdur, and she has third-worst defense (268 to a 315 average). I'm not sure how relevant SO3 defense is, but if that leads her to take as much as 5% more damage than average, that's a OHKO on her. Without Scarf, his damage flies to well over 2200 -without- Damage, which leads him to OHKO Peppita pretty much no questions asked. The kill point in S3 is 1780. It also matters because Confusion may be more accurate than Kaboom, though I don't see a single Peppita status being turn one -ever-, especially against existant evade (Juan has decent enough avoid). That particular matter is a goddamn mess in SO3 anyway.

[Clear Tranquil]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Peppita is getting to go first here? The dude survives a full Power Dance > Faerie Friend > Power Dance > Faerie Friend > Power Dance > Faerie Friend chain? ~

Another question is if Panic Dance would wake Juan out of sleep? If not a Chaos lock might be possible. Who knows, mostly just hyberboling/theorizing here. Looks to me from the stat topic like Juan's a melee fighter so I'd probably allow a counter X > battle skill chain but again I'm not sure~

[Dark Holy Elf]

Juan-with-Scarf is quite fast. Juan-without-Scarf isn't, but certainly OHKOs.


Meeple assumed absolute max HP Plus which I don't hold with at all, personally. This is very different from e.g. Grandia 2 where you can max the HP Up whenever you want; in WA2 you have to do it ASAP, and I would never hold with the extremes of twinking in any game (unless we're all ready to accept Kato/Kefka/Exdeath/etc. as some tiny sliver of PCHP?). I definitely second Snow's arguments on the point for what it's worth. (I'll further toss in as a data point that I was a few levels lower, probably due to not dragging out boss fights to kill their parts.)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Peppita is getting to go first here? The dude survives a full Power Dance > Faerie Friend > Power Dance > Faerie Friend > Power Dance > Faerie Friend chain? ~

Another question is if Panic Dance would wake Juan out of sleep? If not a Chaos lock might be possible. Who knows, mostly just hyberboling/theorizing here. Looks to me from the stat topic like Juan's a melee fighter so I'd probably allow a counter X > battle skill chain but again I'm not sure~

Considering Peppita doesn't even HAVE the CP to equip two Power Dances and two Faerie Friends, that's not a viable plan (A single Faerie Friend alone is like 8 CP!). >_> If Confuse and Sleep stack (Panic Dance doesn't deal damage, right? So, Peppita could just spam it until it connects, then she goes to town with Frozen Hook spamming), though, Peppita WINS if you don't allow Juan to block status at all, since in this case he starts the fight asleep. Come to think of it, I don't think Juan really has a chance without Yellow Scarf, but with, he wins quite handily (Peppita gets borderline OHKOed before even blinking and now her turn two status NEEDS to connect immediately if she even gets blessed by the dice rolling lower than they usually do. Also, I sooooooooo wouldn't allow her to do any perfect initiative counter nonsense). Soooo, the assessment of the fight is pretty much the opposite of what Snowfire first thought.

[Nephrite]

She's talking about the combo system, where you alternate using two skills to get bonuses.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I thought about that, but wouldn't Power Dance -interrupt- the combo? I don't think that works very well in practice. I'm pretty sure that, for stat topic purposes, Power Dance+Faerie Friend combos ended up dealing -less- damage than just straight-up spamming Faerie Friend anyway...

[Clear Tranquil]

Thanks for the inputs guys =)

Faerie Friend is 6CP in my version (might be different in other/JAP versions) and she can do short X Power Dance > Faerie Friend O chains to 300% in game (with Berserk) without any fury reduction factors (Dream Hammer incidentally is 5CP, and that's her post game skill manual, yeah IDK >_>) Both Power Dance and Faerie Friend are 6 CP on my version but yeah that doesn't leave her room for anything else aside for Magic Hook (2 CP) for range shifting or something but Faerie Friend doesn't really knock things a significant distance away like Kaboom sometimes does (it's not a range shifter as such itself) ~

[Dhyerwolf]

Peppita's Ice move doesn't inflict Freeze turn 1? Yellow Scarfs don't block that.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

6 CP doesn't help much, since it still doesn't allow to separate both for buffing => smash everything strategies. I don't think a Power Dance => Faerie Friend chain is very productive, since you're losing -a lot- of Faerie Friends there (compensating the initial damage boost), but a Power Dance chain, then going for a Faerie Friend Chain would likely bust a Waking Rune Juan's nuts. But this is pretty much irrelevant, non-Yellow Scarf Juan gets his ass maimed by Panic Dance into Frozen Hook.

And man, Peppita's Frozen Hook is considerably below the base accuracy on Frozen Daggers, and Frozen Daggers is turn two.

[Clear Tranquil]

Well that's good if the status would work for non Yellow Scarf Juan then =) (I'm guessing he stays asleep forevers if he doesn't take direct damage?) For information poolings sake I will put this out there anyway for future references even if it's irrelevant as is~

(also Peppita's freeze is more accurate than Nel's for what it's worth (72%/58% without Berserk, Peppita's costs less fury and has more hits) trade off is Nel is the faster PC~)

Peppita - 230'998~ HP, 20'000~ MP (184'798, 18'000~, eight hit AVG)(Short X - Power Dance X - Faerie Friend O > Power Dance X > Faerie Friend O > Power Dance X > Faerie Friend O 300% [60 MP, 8~% HP loss]

99 Fury HP Damages (with Berserk): 67073
1) Peppita - 131999 (Short X-Fairie Friend X 125%-Fairie Friend O 175%-Fairie Friend X 225%-Fairie Friend O 300%) [16% HP loss]

I think OK's numbers assume max hits but I included two figures for those who take average hit numbers~ Though I can't remember what level I had Power Dance at now here >.>

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Juan stays asleep until he gets damaged, so yeah. It's why, without Yellow Scarf, he's utter bait to buffing and status. Otherwise, though, he just smashes shit.

[Dhyerwolf]

Frozen Daggers (in topic, no idea if these are OK numbers or not. I thought that someone had some status resistance numbers that were factored in) are 34% a move, and she can use it 3 times for 71% without Berserk. Since I allow Berserk, that's probably enough to balance the hit rate potentially being lower.

[superaielman]

All of Peppita's status was evadeable physical right? Juan had some evasion, though I think it cost him either some damage or concrete durability to go that route.