Author Topic: Shift Tourney: Week 1  (Read 3564 times)

SnowFire

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Shift Tourney: Week 1
« on: June 18, 2013, 12:45:13 AM »
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Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Orphan (Final Fantasy XIII)
Dark Force (Phantasy Star series) vs. BossX (Saga Frontier)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire 4) vs. Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Violetta (Grandia 3) vs. Arceus (Pokemon series)

Demigods

Fei (Xenogears) vs. Asellus (Saga Frontier)
Wren (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3)
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Beatrix (Final Fantasy 9)
Zerase (Suikoden 5) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3)

Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)
Galcian (Skies of Arcadia) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Clarissa Arwin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia)

Heroes

Sonya Shulen (Suikoden) vs. Adachi (Persona 4)
Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs. Max (Shining Force)
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Gardevoir (Pokemon)
Grunzford (Soul Nomad) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2)

Yuiri (Suikoden 3) vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 1)
Tharja (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem)
Lexis (Lufia 2) vs. Momo (Breath of Fire 3)
White Rose (Saga Frontier) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun)

Pyro

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2013, 01:33:06 AM »
Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Orphan (Final Fantasy XIII): Massive durability difference.
Dark Force (Phantasy Star series) vs. BossX (Saga Frontier)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire 4) vs. Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World): Hmm... formchain.
Violetta (Grandia 3) vs. Arceus (Pokemon series)

Demigods

Fei (Xenogears) vs. Asellus (Saga Frontier): Too bad about his glitched status!
Wren (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3): Not sure.
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Beatrix (Final Fantasy 9): Overwhelms.
Zerase (Suikoden 5) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3): Healing and Magic Repel?

Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga): status(?) or just damage. Evade helps?
Galcian (Skies of Arcadia) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World): 2HKO's and she doesn't lap nearly enough for this.
Clarissa Arwin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening):
Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia): Overwhelms surely... Pamela can heal and has the limit-esque game though... Yeah Altima should be faster too.

Heroes

Sonya Shulen (Suikoden) vs. Adachi (Persona 4)
Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs. Max (Shining Force): Instant Death, right?
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Gardevoir (Pokemon)
Grunzford (Soul Nomad) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2): Quick dodginess... I think.

Yuiri (Suikoden 3) vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 1)
Tharja (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem)
Lexis (Lufia 2) vs. Momo (Breath of Fire 3): Status immunity to the rescue.
White Rose (Saga Frontier) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun)

superaielman

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2013, 01:34:54 AM »
Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Orphan (Final Fantasy XIII)- Speed makes up for the difference in HP, I think.
Dark Force (Phantasy Star series) vs. BossX (Saga Frontier)- Lord's Dinner makes this real ugly.
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire 4) vs. Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)- Right type of offense.

Demigods

Fei (Xenogears) vs. Asellus (Saga Frontier)- I think Glass Shield's enough here.
Wren (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3)- Wren is so out of his element here.
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Beatrix (Final Fantasy 9)- Outslugs. Beatrix has the right magic type, but I don't buy that she's faster than Fogel and she won't OHKO. 
Zerase (Suikoden 5) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3)- Sas MDef prevents a OHKO.  He's better suited to the fight in most ways- healing, magic repel.

Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)- Death. KOS isn't OHKOing.
Galcian (Skies of Arcadia) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)- No clue. Hilda can block ID and heal, but she's still heal locked by Terminal. She might be able to buff her way out of trouble before running out of MP- Galcian's slower than Curvy Hilda and she has enough SP to stretch the fight out.
Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia)- Has magic. Go away Pamela.

Heroes

Sonya Shulen (Suikoden) vs. Adachi (Persona 4)- ID. Adachi's good against healers.
Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs. Max (Shining Force)- ID.
Grunzford (Soul Nomad) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2)- kneejerk that his slugging's good enough here.

Yuiri (Suikoden 3) vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 1)- Does her buff thing.
Lexis (Lufia 2) vs. Momo (Breath of Fire 3)- Momo's buff game is more effective; silence also gives Lexis serious issues.
White Rose (Saga Frontier) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun)- Faster status slinger.
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Nephrite

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2013, 01:37:51 AM »
Rest later, but this is really funny to me.

Zerase vs. Sasarai -- Okay, so I am pretty sure Zerase goes first. She opens with Meteor, which probably does around 80~90% of Sas's HP. So Sasarai will heal with Kindness Rain. Zerase only has 3 shots of Meteor, Sasarai has 6 shots of Kindness Rain. Here's the thing, Sasarai has ample Magic Evasion and Magic Resistance with skills that I bet at least one or two of Zerase's attacks are going to whiff on him. This actually matters, because...

Let's pretend he never dodges. He runs out of Kindness Rains after the sixth shot from Zerase, which more or less dooms him since two Comets still kills him assuming no evasion at all.

Let's say he dodges every other attack.

Zerase: Comet
Sasarai: Kindness Rain
Zerase: Comet, whiff
Sasarai: Canopy Defense
Zerase: Twinkling Star

Here's the important part. At this point, Sasarai can cast Silent Lake and PROBABLY OUTSLUG ZERASE WITH HIS PHYSICAL. Zerase's physical durability is far, far worse than Sasarai's, unless I am terribly, terribly mistaken which I don't think I am.

So basically, as soon as Zerase misses a spell on Sasarai, she's in a lot of trouble. This is important, because I'm pretty sure Sasarai cannot actually hurt Zerase with his magic.



Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Orphan (Final Fantasy XIII)
Dark Force (Phantasy Star series) vs. BossX (Saga Frontier) - I'll get back to you on this.
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire 4) vs. Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - And this.
Violetta (Grandia 3) vs. Arceus (Pokemon series) - Also this.

Demigods

Fei (Xenogears) vs. Asellus (Saga Frontier) - Not sure where I am on Yamikei these days, but I am pretty sure it's 'take averages with PCs of that level' or something.
Wren (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3) - Pretty sure most of Luther's stuff is physical, isn't it?
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Beatrix (Final Fantasy 9)
Zerase (Suikoden 5) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3) - As above.

Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga) - I don't think any of the Xenosaga games had ID blockers, did they?
Galcian (Skies of Arcadia) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - I've never really had a lot of SoA Boss HP respect.
Clarissa Arwin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia)

Heroes

Sonya Shulen (Suikoden) vs. Adachi (Persona 4) - Boss Sonya.
Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs. Max (Shining Force) - Some kind of status.
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Gardevoir (Pokemon)
Grunzford (Soul Nomad) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2)

Yuiri (Suikoden 3) vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 1)
Tharja (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem)
Lexis (Lufia 2) vs. Momo (Breath of Fire 3)
White Rose (Saga Frontier) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun)
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 01:43:06 AM by Nephrite »

SnowFire

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2013, 01:43:45 AM »
Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Orphan (Final Fantasy XIII)
Uhh...  good fight.  I'd kneejerk Orphan's monstrous durability holding out against Xorn's monstrous offense, but would have to do some math.
Dark Force (Phantasy Star series) vs. BossX (Saga Frontier)
Purely based off stat topics...  Hilariously enough, Dark Force wants his PS2 form here, as the stat topic doesn't mention the PS2 form being horribly weak to Light, and BossX's big offense is light-based.  Plus it swings with Lightning which appears to be BossX's bad defense.  (But probably loses anyway.)  (EDIT: So according to DHE, Saga "light" != PS4 Light, so never mind.  Well, I wasn't voting this match anyway!)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire 4) vs. Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Faster, spoils Dark Wave by unloading.

Demigods

Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Beatrix (Final Fantasy 9)
Uhh.  PC Beatrix probably wins (magical Holy smash, Fogel doesn't resist Holy that much), boss Beatrix probably loses (her best damage is in Shock which rams into Fogel's non-elemental defense, and she loses a bunch of damage to go Thunder Slash, and Fogel's Thunder resist is still apparently okay).  Not sure how happy I am voting on PC Bea, though.
Zerase (Suikoden 5) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3)
Since S3 Yellow Scarf doesn't stop ID, and there is no enemy ID in Suiko 5 to tell for Suiko 5 yellow Scarf, I'm assuming Zerase can't block Sas's ID.  (EDIT: Wait, right, no Pale Gate for Sasarai in the DL.  That said, I'll buy Nephrite's hype.)

Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)
Does S-Chain ignore evasion?  And how good was Ether Down?  KOS goes first, and I don't think Lulu can KO with 2x Flares anyway, but it's not clear what KOS can do to win anyway against Lulu's healing game.  (EDIT: Yeah, see others, KOS has an argument but it's an uphill fight.)
Galcian (Skies of Arcadia) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
ID immunity.  I guess Galcian might heal-lock, but eh, Hilda probably still gets doubles at a reasonably good rate thanks to Gale as Dhyer points out then.
Clarissa Arwin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Rob Turn-> Sacrifice -> Sacrifice vs. 31% evade, and Clarissa is so screwed if any of those miss.  She's got like a 25-40% chance of all three hitting.

Heroes

Yuiri (Suikoden 3) vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 1)
Nina has to open with Wall or die to ID, but she gets outslugged because Yuiri apparently has a rather good bow (hits weakness vs. flyers right?!).  I guess you can hype Hush on the theory that Yellow Scarf doesn't stop S3 Silent Lake?!  But meh.
Tharja (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem)
Not as one-sided a slaughter as it usually is when one side clearly doubles, but still probably Guy's match.  Still, Guy only 5HKOs (=3HKOs) Tharja's decent defense and has bad RES, so Nosferatu is really helping Tharja keep up, especially since Tharja gets to counter and Guy doesn't, so they're really trading 2 blows for 2 blows.  (Except that only 1 of Tharja's hits gets the fully -15 Avoid for Melee.)  And a Vengeance powered Nosferatu is nothing to sneeze at.  Just dat evade that gives Tharja fits, basically.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 11:59:09 PM by SnowFire »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2013, 01:56:07 AM »
Outstanding set of matches this week, incidentally. Dunno if that's by chance or not!


Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Orphan (Final Fantasy XIII): Good fight. Orphan has about triple the durability, so does Xorn have triple the offence? Undoubtedly until the last phase of Orphan's HP, where he gets Dies Irae. Xorn can be hit by debuffs in-game, just he reduces their duration, but Dias Irae will just keep re-applying them and do some really nasty damage. That said, Xorn's still much faster and will be Dimension Gating like mad at this point, and he hits his limits earlier in general. Also tilting things his way is his own debuff which removes passive abilities... I'd probably see that nuking Orphan's damage halving which lets Xorn blitz Orphan's suddenly not very good durability.

Dark Force (Phantasy Star series) vs. BossX (Saga Frontier): Dark Force 2 has ~90% damage off ~75% speed and >4 PCHP, and is generally the one I feel most comfortable voting on (DF3 is slightly faster and more durable, but somewhat less damaging, probably balances). Boss X is even slower, and slightly less durable. 67% at high HP, 107% below 2/3. Being slower, roughly as damaging, and slightly less durable means this one goes to Dark Force I think. Both definitely lower tiers of Divine than the above!

Fou-lu (Breath of Fire 4) vs. Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World): Fou-Lu is slower and needs two turns to kill. So Lady gets... two Crimson Raids (quartered), two Calamity Gazes, three Hexes (can hit Fou's weakness regardless of what it is...), and two Malice Dirges. That should be enough, I think. Funny, I don't think I've analysed this match before, have these two actually never fought?

Violetta (Grandia 3) vs. Arceus (Pokemon series): Instant death. Yawn.

Demigods

Fei (Xenogears) vs. Asellus (Saga Frontier): You want to use your melee ST physicals against Deflect and Kasumi? Good luck with that.

Wren (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3): Wren can probably survive a limit turn and non-limit turn, and is fast enough to avoid a 3-2 even, so 2HKO before being 3HKOed? Nah, he probably misses the 2HKO. And make no mistake, he -needs- to do it, because no PC survives against Perfect Symmetry spam for any real length.

Zerase (Suikoden 5) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3): Zerase has 9 shots of damage that... still manage to 2HKO Sasarai somewhat impressively, but he has a 50% chance to dodge each. Zerase all but nulls Sasarai's damage (certainly I don't see it managing any better than his physical here, which is a 6HKO). Sasarai will negate ~4 of the 2HKO attacks with Magic Repel and can heal off the other five. He can use Canopy Defence to waste her L1 charges but this isn't a good idea because he's slower. He'll have one further shot of healing and beyond that... well he gets four physicals off. He needs six. I dunno. This feels very very close. Zerase is faster than anything Sasarai does, on average by a rather notable amount, which makes me think she barely takes it, but it's close.

Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga): Blind resistance hype should let her win this, I think. If KOS' accuracy down hits Lulu (which does affect magic in XS1) then she'll be able to dodge both Deaths and win.
Clarissa Arwin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening): Lucina just has enough HP to survive one Sacrifice, and her evade means two are unlikely to both hit. To make matters worse she can equip Javelins so even getting a second might be tricky and three is out of the question. Think that's game.

Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia): Sets MP to zero. Grand Cross also can probably do some horrible things.

Heroes

Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs. Max (Shining Force): Instant Death.

Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Gardevoir (Pokemon): Rainbow Crono is just barely faster and 2HKOs with Confuse.

Yuiri (Suikoden 3) vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 1): Nina MUST cast Wall or she'll get eaten by Wind of Sleep (or Funeral Wind, but that's slower). Yuiri has a 2HKO, and Nina can't save herself with Fort... but possibly can with Idle! Yeah, I think she casts Wall, then Idle, survives the 2HKO, and wins. Yuiri breaking Wall is pointless since it'll just get refreshed.

Tharja (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem): Guy has a 3HKO, Tharja also has a 3HKO. Guy doubles, Tharja counters, so they trade hits. Tharja heals herself for half the damage she deals, which is probably around 29% against Guy, almost offsetting one of his hits. Guy, however, is probably evading every other attack here. Tharja goes first at least. We'll see Tharja misses on her own turns, hits on Guy's (higher accuracy at melee). This becomes... Guy attacks, Tharja counters and heals, Guy doubles. Repeat... Guy's killing first it looks like... except that Tharja can close to melee for >50 hit for the finishing blow. Okay, so Guy needs crits, Killing Edge time. Killing Edge doesn't actually OHKO on a crit, however. But it doesn't really need to, since he just needs one crit and one non-crit to stick. And then factor in Tharja has bad luck... yeah, I think Guy takes this, barely. edit: wowzers, forgot about Vengeance. That makes this closer still. Keejerk is that Vengeance won't sway this... it only matters on her two non-fatal hits... and the first is only a small damage boost... so yeah.

Lexis (Lufia 2) vs. Momo (Breath of Fire 3): Assuming status immunity and buffs put her over the top in this stallfest, but it's possible some Lexis damage IP may tilt this or she won't be able to put him away... going with kneejerk for now but am easily swayed by arguments.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 01:58:02 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2013, 02:15:40 AM »
Neph:

-No, none of the XS games have legal ID blockers as far as I'm aware. (XS3 maybe? Don't think so though.)
-Luther is indeed mostly physical. (which is overall a good thing against Wren due to Barrier, although Wren's physical durability is still very good!)

Snowfire:

-The element Laggy calls "light" in the Saga boss topic is anything but the light/holy elemental seen in other games. The Saga mechanics guide calls the element "force" and it is basically a catch-all for any damage that doesn't fall into one of the other Saga elements (fire/ice/lightning, slash/pierce/blunt) and is probably best translated as non-elemental unless the ability in question includes an obvious flavour element (such as Maelstrom or Tornado). So no way Lord's Dinner hits weakness here.
-Yellow Scarves do, in fact, stop silence! (But not Silent Lake.) I still think Yuiri loses as per my post but she does block Nina's immunable status tricks.

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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2013, 04:45:03 AM »
Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Orphan (Final Fantasy XIII)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire 4) vs. Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)

Demigods

Wren (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3)
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Beatrix (Final Fantasy 9)- PC Beatrix does 139.7% Holy magic. Fogel has 139.2% Holy magic durability so she does OHKO. Doing 3.5x damage compared to the number 2 PC goes far.
Zerase (Suikoden 5) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3)- Actually the fastest thing in this fight? Canopy Defense

Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)
Galcian (Skies of Arcadia) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)- Curvy Hilda opens with Gale. Galcian is about 80% speed, so she'll be getting a lot of double turns. Now, she'll probably only have about 8 shots of healing (assuming needing to keep Gale up), but gut reaction is that she'll get like 6 normal attacks in at that time. This is very close to killing Galcian...gut is she squeezes it out. Her speed is probably 145%ish after Gale, and I guess she'll get a 7th attack on the final double. Galcian wishes her elemental weakness was stronger.
Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia)

Heroes

Sonya Shulen (Suikoden) vs. Adachi (Persona 4)
Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs. Max (Shining Force)
Grunzford (Soul Nomad) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2)- After Mdef issues and bad typing, Grunzford basically has average Mdur against Lilka (103%). But...she doesn't have any answer to buff attack and OHKO her even through typing issues.

Yuiri (Suikoden 3) vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 1)
Lexis (Lufia 2) vs. Momo (Breath of Fire 3)- Even if he has IP stuff, she'll status him status out
White Rose (Saga Frontier) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun)- Dungeon has taught us the perils of Ivan. Faster+Too much accurate status
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2013, 05:04:48 AM »
Canopy Defence is 45 charge, which is dead average and certainly not the fastest thing in the fight. (It's also not very relevant since Zerase throws L1 spells in response.)

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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2013, 05:51:42 AM »
Blah. Mixed it up with him having Vengeful Child.
...into the nightfall.

Monkeyfinger

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2013, 06:29:53 AM »
Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Orphan (Final Fantasy XIII): Death knell is quite a trump card here. It unlocks after losing 25% HP. It does overkill damage on a delay, meaning it can resolve right alongside a standard attack to eat way into Orphan's own limit stage. You can move out of the way of death knell in game. Lots of enemies in FF13 can move but Orphan can't.
Dark Force (Phantasy Star series) vs. BossX (Saga Frontier): Kneejerk dark force sucks vote.
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire 4) vs. Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World): Since both of fou-lu's forms are next to each other and face the same party, he's one of the few bosses I give unrestricted form choice to. So, Astral too stronk, I think. Although it has less peak damage than tyrant, it's faster, it doesn't have elemental weaknesses, and it doesn't lose offense as it gets hurt. I guess the way I see the fight playing out is he 3HKOs with physicals and can tank 3 Lady turns with a combo finisher thanks to the 75% phys resist.
Violetta (Grandia 3) vs. Arceus (Pokemon series)

Demigods

Fei (Xenogears) vs. Asellus (Saga Frontier)
Wren (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3): I see MP damage hitting all forms of resources including charges, and Luther has plenty of that, so this isn't very close to me.
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Beatrix (Final Fantasy 9)
Zerase (Suikoden 5) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3)

Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)
Galcian (Skies of Arcadia) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World): Galcian barely scrapes a 2HKO with terminal, and the defense buffs in SH2/SH3 were really good, on the order of halving damage. Basically I see Hilda reducing Galcian to a 4HKO, not a 3HKO, which makes this rather one sided as long as Hilda just buffs defense and refreshes, heals, and attacks. Gale's a waste of precious MP here.
Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia)

Heroes

Sonya Shulen (Suikoden) vs. Adachi (Persona 4): I penalize boss sonya a bit for not quite being endgame but I still think it's strong enough to take Adachi. That first spell lands before heat riser and takes a big old chunk off, and adachi's offense isn't that great so he's likely losing heat riser at some point and getting doubleturned at some point. He's just kind of shit against mage bosses in general.
Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs. Max (Shining Force)
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Gardevoir (Pokemon)

Yuiri (Suikoden 3) vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 1)
Lexis (Lufia 2) vs. Momo (Breath of Fire 3)
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 06:32:15 AM by Monkeyfinger »

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2013, 07:34:53 AM »
Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Orphan (Final Fantasy XIII)
Dark Force (Phantasy Star series) vs. BossX (Saga Frontier)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire 4) vs. Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Violetta (Grandia 3) vs. Arceus (Pokemon series)

Demigods

Fei (Xenogears) vs. Asellus (Saga Frontier)
Wren (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3)
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Beatrix (Final Fantasy 9)- No vote.
Zerase (Suikoden 5) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3)

Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)
Galcian (Skies of Arcadia) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)- Mm.  Yeah, Hilda just needs a small bump to get traction.
Clarissa Arwin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia)

Heroes

Sonya Shulen (Suikoden) vs. Adachi (Persona 4)
Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs. Max (Shining Force)- No vote.
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Gardevoir (Pokemon)
Grunzford (Soul Nomad) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2)

Yuiri (Suikoden 3) vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 1)
Tharja (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem)- Gut, Dark Mage vs SM evade.
Lexis (Lufia 2) vs. Momo (Breath of Fire 3)
White Rose (Saga Frontier) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun)- Hum.  Ivan can't heal, so WR only needs a couple turns to just play for a fatal coup d'grace, no?  She should be able to get that in between Ivan's status applications.
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Random Consonant

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2013, 07:49:02 AM »
Divinities

Dark Force (Phantasy Star series) vs. BossX (Saga Frontier) - later
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire 4) vs. Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - I'll bite.
Violetta (Grandia 3) vs. Arceus (Pokemon series) - ID

Demigods

Fei (Xenogears) vs. Asellus (Saga Frontier) - Glass Shield isn't enough, but Deflect/Kasumi combo sure is.

Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga) - ID.
Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia) - Yep.

Heroes

Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs. Max (Shining Force) - More instant death.
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Gardevoir (Pokemon) - Sure.
Grunzford (Soul Nomad) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2) - abstain

Tharja (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem) - Gutchecking against Tharja accuracy.
Lexis (Lufia 2) vs. Momo (Breath of Fire 3) - Lexis can do... what here, exactly?
White Rose (Saga Frontier) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun) - probably.

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2013, 07:55:06 AM »
Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Orphan (Final Fantasy XIII)
Dark Force (Phantasy Star series) vs. BossX (Saga Frontier)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire 4) vs. Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Violetta (Grandia 3) vs. Arceus (Pokemon series)

Demigods

Fei (Xenogears) vs. Asellus (Saga Frontier)
Wren (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3) - DATA SHALL BEHAVE AS SUCH! DATA! YOU'RE ALL JUST DATA!
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Beatrix (Final Fantasy 9)
Zerase (Suikoden 5) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3)- Sas's physical is too bad to outslug Zerase during Silent Lake. Sad.

Lulu (Final Fantasy X)
vs. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)
Galcian (Skies of Arcadia) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Clarissa Arwin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening)- "Hope will never die!" "Time to blaze a new trail!" "I say when it ends!!" "Well, here goes nothing..." And thus, Clarissa Sacrificed Lucina.
Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia)- lol

Heroes

Sonya Shulen (Suikoden) vs. Adachi (Persona 4)
Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs. Max (Shining Force)
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Gardevoir (Pokemon)
Grunzford (Soul Nomad) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2)

Yuiri (Suikoden 3) vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 1)
Tharja (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem)
Lexis (Lufia 2) vs. Momo (Breath of Fire 3)
White Rose (Saga Frontier) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun)
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2013, 05:58:07 PM »
Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Orphan (Final Fantasy XIII) - dat dispel.
Dark Force (Phantasy Star series) vs. BossX (Saga Frontier) - dat hp.
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire 4) vs. Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - dat offense.
Violetta (Grandia 3) vs. Arceus (Pokemon series) - dat id.

Fei (Xenogears) vs. Asellus (Saga Frontier) - ST melee physicals vs. Asellus loooooooooooooooool
Wren (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3) - Wins by slooooooooooooooooowly typing random shit on Wren's keyboard. Or /cmd burp.elf
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Beatrix (Final Fantasy 9) - No. I'm seriously tempted to Laike clause Beatrix for myself.
Zerase (Suikoden 5) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3) - Welp. I highly suspect Zerase deals more damage with her physical than Sasarai does.

Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga) - Hinges on whether I see status magic being evadable (don't know if XS status magic says so) or not, but will say yes. See status and status-busting as two different things in general, anyway, so.
Clarissa Arwin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - So, Lucina comfortably doubles Clarissa, which means Forged Javelin counters -force- Clarissa to -OPEN- with Howling Shot to avoid those (otherwise, Clarissa's left with 2% HP after a Sacrifice -if- Aether never procs, and just dies if it does), and that has like 30% odds of hitting Lucina, and if -that- misses she may as well put on a blindfold and light a cigarette on the follow-up turn. Add that to the 1/3 odds of a Sacrifice -alone- missing -and the 1/4 odds of Rob Turn -itself- missing (which leads to instant loloverkill from Lucina)... yeah, Clarissa is way too vulnerable here. For Ylisse!
Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia) - lolsers

Sonya Shulen (Suikoden) vs. Tohru Adachi (Persona 4) - Boss Sonya wins because Adachi is a loser against mages, PC Sonya loses because her physical slugfesting needs work and his ID shouldn't go below turn three. I vote on PC Sonya, though.
Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs. Max (Shining Force) - ID.
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Gardevoir (Pokemon) - 2HKO first with Skittles.
Grunzford (Soul Nomad) vs. Lilka Eleniak (Wild Arms 2) - Hm. Lilka goes first, should need about four Quickens to reach perfect evade, and she 3-2s off the bat into constant doubles on Grunzford's poor speed. This gives him... two turns before Lilka is untouchable, so he either OHKOs (not happening unless you factor in generics. I don't) or just loses: buffing nets him a OHKO to either average, but this is vulnerable to Lilka's Dispel -and- allows her to stack Quicken thrice in a row, which should lead his attack to turn one dodge even if dispelling doesn't work. Tough luck, truffles.

Yuiri (Suikoden 3) vs. Nina Wyndia (Breath of Fire 1) - sure
Tharja (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem) - Way too strong a kneejerk of Tharja accuracy against Guy evade.
Lexis Shaia (Lufia 2) vs. Momo (Breath of Fire 3) - Lexis status resistance says this ain't working, he can't put any sort of pressure on Momo before she piles the million stat buffs and status whoring.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 08:50:13 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2013, 04:15:28 AM »
Yuiri (Suikoden 3) vs. Nina Windia (Breath of Fire 1) - sure

Fun fact: One of the nominations used "Windia", the other "Wyndia."  I checked that font of wisdom, Wikia (hey, first Google hit), and if we assume that like many other JRPGs all royal families bear the name of their kingdom which was true of Japan and pretty much no other country...  it'd be Winlan.  Well, the SNES translation at least.  I don't recall any explicit last name given to her in-game, so, uh, yeah, I went with just leaving it as straight "Nina" and not thinking about it.

Her entry includes other such fascinating facts such as, and I quote:

* Her hobby is eating things

http://bof.wikia.com/wiki/Nina_(Breath_of_Fire)

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2013, 01:13:29 PM »
I'll just correct it to Wyndia to straighten up with later series canon and not think about it any further.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2013, 01:32:40 PM »
Randomly, something came to mind, Elfboy: for the FE doubling formula you use, maybe wouldn't it make sense to use avg + 9*log2 (CTB) for FE13, accounting for the higher doubling threshold? (7 is exactly 3.5*2. 9 is exactly 4.5*2). This is mostly esoterics, though, and doesn't come particularly close to keep Clarissa from being doubled (she goes from +2 to +3 average speed, Lucina doubles +4 average speed and I took this into consideration when mathing out the fight).
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 05:44:06 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2013, 04:55:08 PM »
I do, in fact, do that! Glad to see my kneejerk about Clarissa being doubled was correct, though; I realised sometime after voting that I probably should have checked that but was too lazy.

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Reiska

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2013, 09:11:49 PM »
W[y|i]n[dia|lan] is certainly a pit of translation inconsistency, yeah.  BoF1 used Winlan, BoF2 used Windia, and later entries all stick to Wyndia I think.

So, uh, votes on the stuff I can vote.

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Orphan (Final Fantasy XIII): DHE and Monkeyfinger's arguments here are pretty compelling to me.
Dark Force (Phantasy Star series) vs. BossX (Saga Frontier): Not sure how to call this one.
Violetta (Grandia 3) vs. Arceus (Pokemon series): pretty sure Violetta's ID takes this

Demigods

Wren (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3): Think I have to agree with the thread here, at best Wren gets heal-locked once Luther's limit phases kick in, and at worst he just gets deleted.
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Beatrix (Final Fantasy 9): Following Dhyer's logic here.  Beatrix having interp issues (boss vs. PC form) is a reasonable argument, but I favor PC forms when they exist too, and I suspect her division placement leans to her PC form rather than her boss form...?

Heroes

Sonya Shulen (Suikoden) vs. Adachi (Persona 4): ID.
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Gardevoir (Pokemon): See others' explanations here.

Tharja (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem): Really close match, I think, but my gut says Guy's evade pulls through :(
Lexis (Lufia 2) vs. Momo (Breath of Fire 3): Kneejerk, but probably an accurate one.
White Rose (Saga Frontier) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun): Not sure here.

Magic Fanatic

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2013, 01:07:53 AM »

Heroes

Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Gardevoir (Pokemon): See others' explanations here.

And that's it for matches I can vote on.

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2013, 02:25:36 AM »

Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Orphan (Final Fantasy XIII)
Dark Force (Phantasy Star series) vs. BossX (Saga Frontier)
Fou-lu (Breath of Fire 4) vs. Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Violetta (Grandia 3) vs. Arceus (Pokemon series)

Demigods

Fei (Xenogears) vs. Asellus (Saga Frontier)
Wren (Phantasy Star 4) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3)
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Beatrix (Final Fantasy 9)
Zerase (Suikoden 5) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3)

Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)
Galcian (Skies of Arcadia) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Clarissa Arwin (Wild Arms XF) vs. Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs. Pamela Ibis (Mana Khemia)

Heroes

Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs. Max (Shining Force)
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Gardevoir (Pokemon)
Grunzford (Soul Nomad) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2)

Yuiri (Suikoden 3) vs. Nina (Breath of Fire 1)
Lexis (Lufia 2) vs. Momo (Breath of Fire 3)
White Rose (Saga Frontier) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun)

SnowFire

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2013, 03:56:47 AM »
Time for dl.jpeg, aka arguing about which time-travelling princess is better.

Since Clarissa is actually tied with Lucina off 3 votes right now...  I just want to mention that while it IS a good match, it really, really favors Lucina.  Clarissa really wants you to use the +6 weapons average where Sacrifice is a OHKO at 1.01 PCHP (if you use Pyro's figures with weapons at +8, it's .87 PCHP; if you use Tal's figures with ultimate weapons, it's .74 PCHP).  According to Elf's stat topic, Lucina clocks in at 1.09 magical durability - that's enough to tank a vs. +6 Sacrifice even if you deny Lucina Sumia as her mom or something, or penalize her some extra levels.  So...  no OHKO.  So Clarissa's only route to victory is Rob Turn -> Sacrifice -> (Sacrifice or, if that isn't fatal, Howling Shot).  If we assume that Rob Turn isn't dodgable, and use Elf's stat topic of 37% evade, that gives Clarissa's odds of victory at .75 * .63 * .63 = 30%.  But wait, there's more!  As already pointed out, Lucina will equip a Javelin for counters, and Lucina probably doubles Clarissa (or if you use vs. enemies, she still gets 1.94 throws or whatever thanks to a 94% doubled rate).  2x Javelin deals .39 PCHP, which uh...  kills Clarissa post Sacrifice.  Stat topic claims she has .76 PCHP and slightly subpar defense, which is cut in half post-Sacrifice to .38 PCHP, so she's dead.  But let's say she isn't dead!  Well, that means she can't do a 2nd Sacrifice to kill with; she has to use Howling Shot, which as noted has 80% accuracy and is ramming into Clarissa's evade, so it's more like .75 * .63 * .63 * .80 = 24%.  (And that's the nice interp, the harsh interp uses FE true hit to probably make it even more inaccurate.)  And yet again, wait, there's more!  So we're assuming the Javelin hits didn't kill; maybe Lucina didn't double or Clarissa's HP is better (Clarissa's HP is certainly worse than I expected, I can see kneejerking it higher).  There's still the odds of Aether kicking in!  That's yet another 29% chance for Clarissa to lose the match on the spot to the extra HP Lucina will get and the fact that Clarissa is likely dead even if you don't think Lucina doubles (though of course if Lucina doesn't double, she does only have one shot to get Aether in.)   So we're now down to like 12-16% chance of Clarissa winning, IF she's given an interp that lets her survive the Javelin counters.

It's just really uphill for Clarissa here.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2013, 04:26:18 AM »
Rob Turn is indeed ITE (but Sacrifice is not). Sacrifice ignores defence, so it's just running into Lucina's raw HP and not her magic durability... but yes, by the +6 numbers still just misses the OHKO. As you note, no OHKO = Clarissa loses, and I agree.

However, do note that some people vote on storebought equipment only (I know Ciato does), which does allow a OHKO.

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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 1
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2013, 05:11:22 AM »
I use the(non-existent, but pretty much purely favoring Clarissa) +4 figures, which is all that is actually storebought in the f'ing game! The listed figures in the topic are all too high IMO~ That is why I see Clarissa OHKOing; crafting stuff to me is just off-limits in general.
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