Author Topic: Shift Tourney: Week 3  (Read 2267 times)

SnowFire

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Shift Tourney: Week 3
« on: June 27, 2013, 01:21:01 AM »
A generation ago, Ryu's mother became a dragon to close off a rift that had allowed a tornado-riding wizard to escape from a dark dimension known only as Kansas.  The wizard's fanatical followers have weakened the seal over time, and now his greatest servant has come forth from Infinity to do battle with the Dragon clan. 

Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Dark Force (Phantasy Star series)
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs. Violetta (Grandia 3)
TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Belial (Wild Arms 4)
Ghaleon (Lunar) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X)


Demigods

Asellus (Saga Frontier) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3)
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3)
Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Berle (Star Ocean 2) vs. Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG)
Jack van Burace (Wild Arms) vs. Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II)
Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs. Raquel (Wild Arms 4)
Ryu Bateson (Breath of Fire 2) vs. Dorothy Gale (The Wizard of Oz)


Heroes

Adachi (Persona 4) vs. Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2)
Nina (Breath of Fire 1) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem)
Momo (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun)

Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2) vs. Basilio (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Marle (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lazlo (Suikoden IV)
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs. Eruca (Radiant Historia)
Alfina (Grandia III) vs. Klein (Atelier Iris)

Random Consonant

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2013, 01:36:11 AM »
more later

Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Dark Force (Phantasy Star series)
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs. Violetta (Grandia 3) - Yeah don't really think so.
TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Belial (Wild Arms 4) - okay Belial gets one hit in before TL can OD but it's not enough, 0.6 to TL's 0.71.  I've been told TL has MT to get around Belial pulling distortion strats but don't know how good it is.  Abstaining.
Ghaleon (Lunar) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X)


Demigods

Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - Faster or something.  I guess maybe you could hype Lulu dodging Grand Slam but it being able to hit all heights is sufficiently special in the context of SH3 physical moves to make me leery of that.
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Berle (Star Ocean 2) vs. Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG)
Jack van Burace (Wild Arms) vs. Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II) - Faster and OHKOs
Ryu Bateson (Breath of Fire 2) vs. Dorothy Gale (The Wizard of Oz) - where I remind myself that Ryu can block sleep, as this is Dorothy's only shot.


Heroes
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2) - Crono doesn't 2HKO and Lilka probably laps him after Quicken this is so great.
Momo (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun) - Status immunity.

Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2) vs. Basilio (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - Probably.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 02:57:35 AM by Random Consonant »

Nephrite

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2013, 01:53:36 AM »
Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Dark Force (Phantasy Star series) - I think even assuming DF3's slow works on Xorn he probably has way too much damage.
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs. Violetta (Grandia 3)
TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Belial (Wild Arms 4) - Initiative sure is a bitch, isn't it.
Ghaleon (Lunar) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X) - I think Aeonless Yuna wins this...


Demigods

Asellus (Saga Frontier) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3) - Uhhhhhhhhhhh.
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3) - Sasarai :(
Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - Holy hell, I have no idea.
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Berle (Star Ocean 2) vs. Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG)
Jack van Burace (Wild Arms) vs. Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II) - Is... Jowy faster than Jack?
Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs. Raquel (Wild Arms 4)
Ryu Bateson (Breath of Fire 2) vs. Dorothy Gale (The Wizard of Oz) - Oh dear god.


Heroes

Adachi (Persona 4) vs. Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2)
Nina (Breath of Fire 1) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem)
Momo (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun)

Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2) vs. Basilio (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Marle (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lazlo (Suikoden IV)
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs. Eruca (Radiant Historia)
Alfina (Grandia III) vs. Klein (Atelier Iris)

SnowFire

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2013, 02:01:26 AM »
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs. Violetta (Grandia 3) - nope.jpg
Ghaleon (Lunar) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X) - Ghaleon is one of the few duelers who stands a theoretical chance against the Aeon Parade, then Fate Storm Yuna after they're dead, but eh.  (I don't think I give Yuna Anima / Magus Sisters / Yojimbo as quasi-aftergame, for all that this is to some extent an intentionally harsh interp to try and make outslugging the Aeons more interesting.)  Even if they all get only one attack off, Bahamut gets 2 attacks off, and Yuna closes with Holy, that's still a ton of damage.  In fact, it's interesting enough for me to bother spreadsheeting out...  every Aeon using their best attack then dying, and Bahamut getting 2x attacks, is 40400 FFX damage (again exluding Anima & MS).  The stat topic's damage average, that's 5.25 PCHP; I think the stat topic is a tad too nice (Tidus's Quick Hit game for example) but even using 9000 as the damage average, it comes out to 4.49 PCHP then.  And that's before Yuna's closing Holy, too.  Yeah no.

Demigods

Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3) OHKOs (unless Fogel's Earth resistance was super good).  Match of Neph I see.
Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - Even if Grand Slam isn't ITE, Hilda can Gale and tank 2x Flares and immune Death and win on doubles via GS-until-it-hits spam, I think, before running out of MP.
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Holy Angel gets OHKO'd and is slower than FFT PC average speed anyway.  Too much of Archangel's Grand Cross list doesn't matter - only Petrify, Sleep, and Confuse are the money statuses, though I guess Darkness & Slow are okay.  All-Ultima ignores evade, but it takes 2 of 'em to connect, and has a charge time which is exploitable in-game.  So the AU blitz plan is better, and the question is if Altima has > 1.25 PCHP or so (how much damage Lucina throws at her given a turn, since Aether probably triggers once).  It's close, but I'll tiebreak against Altima since there's various broken stuff in FFT that can mock her.
EDIT: See Reiska, Altima's status blitz is better than I thought.

Jack van Burace (Wild Arms) vs. Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II) - Another quickdraw wherein I kneejerk against Jowy.
Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs. Raquel (Wild Arms 4)
Pain, Fog, & Slow are bad times.  Don't think WA4 had a blocker for that.

Heroes

Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2)
Why is the FP cost on Hi-Heal not in the stat topic...  sigh.  Lilka's heal-locked of course, but she doesn't run out of MP, and Crono does, so probably Lilka.
Nina (Breath of Fire 1) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem)
Nina is so screwed if Hold misses, but it's still probably good enough accuracy even vs. Guy's evasion.

Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2) vs. Basilio (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
This sounds like BOW HYPE time for Basilio.  Will await analysis.  EDIT: Sure.
Marle (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lazlo (Suikoden IV)
Well, Marle has pretty good MDef...  that doesn't really help vs. status in her home game, but did it matter for Suiko 4 enemies?  EDIT: Apparently not.
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs. Eruca (Radiant Historia)
Eruca will finish this match with like no MP, but Divine Light spam should take the day.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 02:23:17 AM by SnowFire »

superaielman

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2013, 02:02:08 AM »
Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Dark Force (Phantasy Star series)
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs. Violetta (Grandia 3)
TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Belial (Wild Arms 4)- OD.
Ghaleon (Lunar) vs.Yuna (Final Fantasy X)

Demigods

Asellus (Saga Frontier) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3)- Kneejerk.
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3)- Earth elemental attacks get lumped in as physical damage to boot.
Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)-  I don't think Lulu had ID immunity.

Jack van Burace (Wild Arms) vs. Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II)- Soul Breaker.
Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs. Raquel (Wild Arms 4)- Status.

Heroes

Adachi (Persona 4) vs. Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)- Kneejerk lack of respect for SH2 bosses.
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2)- 2HKO. Crono's too fast to be lapped post Quick.
Nina (Breath of Fire 1) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem)- No idea.
Momo (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun)- Think so.

Marle (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lazlo (Suikoden IV)
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2013, 02:03:16 AM »
Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Dark Force (Phantasy Star series) - Nearly three times the speed and not that far behind in durability. His offense also gets very mean early in the fight, which pretty much seals the deal against DF.
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs. Violetta (Grandia 3) - lol ohko.
TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Belial (Wild Arms 4) - Entirely dependant on your view of TB initiative. The way I view it, Belial just goes first and Pockets.
Ghaleon (Lunar) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X) - Conga line does its work.

Asellus (Saga Frontier) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3) - Uhhhhh.
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3) - Tanks a Land of Eternity, it barely OHKOs average and Fogel is solid at taking magic.
Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - Grand Slam.
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Lucina OHKOs the first form without much fuss. Problem is the second: Lucina would need to proc at least two Aethers to OHKO Alty 2, and the odds of two Grand Crosses landing a deadly status are probably good enough. Since it's unevadable to boot... yeah. Average of interps favors Altima.

Berle (Star Ocean 2) vs. Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG) - I think so. Berle offense isn't great and MIRAGE of all things may be able to exploit holes in Metaguard.
Jack van Burace (Wild Arms) vs. Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II) - I'll take any opportunity I can to anti-hype Jack when status slinging is involved.
Yun Fang Oerba (Final Fantasy XIII) vs. Raquel Applegate (Wild Arms 4) - Status the hell out of Raquel and go to town. Pain alone is terrifying against her.
Ryu Bateson (Breath of Fire 2) vs. Dorothy Gale (The Wizard of Oz) - Blocks Sleep. Dorothy can't do anything about G. Dragon sans Dream Land.

Tohru Adachi (Persona 4) vs. Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) - Scrubby slugging vs. scrubby slugging, Vera has a bit more damage, goes first and fails against magic a bit less. Heat Riser doesn't tilt the odds in practice either.
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lilka Eleniak (Wild Arms 2) - EDIT: Lapping is irrelevant, Crono misses the 2HKO on Lilka by roughly 1%. :rhys:
Nina Wyndia (Breath of Fire 1) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem) - Not much respect for FE7 evading magical status with Avd these days.

Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2) vs. Basilio (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - Basilio just 2HKOs first.
Nadia "Marle" Guardia (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lazlo (Suikoden IV) - When in doubt, turn two status that goes first hands better victory odds than turn one status that goes last. And Lazlo might still have turn one ID anyway.
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs. Eruca (Radiant Historia) - Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh. Alternating Divine Light and G-Frost probably lets her win, she's pumping out roughly 1 PC HP against Sara per pop.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 07:33:16 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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VySaika

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2013, 02:32:50 AM »
Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Dark Force (Phantasy Star series)
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs. Violetta (Grandia 3)
TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Belial (Wild Arms 4) - Yeah, Belial isn't surviving an OD. And I'm willing to let OD beat her out.
Ghaleon (Lunar) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X) - I think reraise and Holy spam does this, she runs laps around him. Of course Aeon's make that point moot.


Demigods

Asellus (Saga Frontier) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3) - Kneejerk, yeah.
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3) - Not OHKOd. The reverse is not true.
Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - Don't think Lulu can stop ID, so.
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Spam Grand Cross, she'll win with that on average I think?

Berle (Star Ocean 2) vs. Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG) - Uhhhh....fuck if I know.
Jack van Burace (Wild Arms) vs. Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II) - Sure, Jack wins the quickdraw.
Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs. Raquel (Wild Arms 4)
Ryu Bateson (Breath of Fire 2) vs. Dorothy Gale (The Wizard of Oz)


Heroes

Adachi (Persona 4) vs. Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) - Neither one has durability worth a damn, but I think I respect Adachi's slugging a bit more? Meh, whatever.
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2) - Kneejerk in favor of Crono being fast enough to avoid the lap. Buuuuuut apparently Tim drags the HP average down enough that Lilka doesn't get 2HKOd by Luminaire. Hilarious.
Nina (Breath of Fire 1) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem) - Magical status checks Res in FE, iirc. So....sucks to be Guy.
Momo (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun) - Uh...sure. I recal Ivan damage being bad, and having no status worth mentioning. We'll give this to momo.

Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2) vs. Basilio (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - Ashley dodges counters! Too bad he doesn't go first.
Marle (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lazlo (Suikoden IV) - Man I have no Marle respect. This is possibly unfair, but I see other votes against her so not sweating it. <_<;
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs. Eruca (Radiant Historia) - Need to beat RH, dunno what endgame Eruca can do at all.
Alfina (Grandia III) vs. Klein (Atelier Iris)
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 02:36:15 AM »
Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Dark Force (Phantasy Star series): Well. Dark Force does have a bit more durability and raw full-HP damage! Unfortunately for him Xorn has more damage over time at full HP by quite a ways. And then he gets better.
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs. Violetta (Grandia 3): Violetta is awfully close to 2HKOing and instant doubling, but she needs both and I rather suspect she misses the 2HKO at the very least, possibly both.
TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Belial (Wild Arms 4): Faster. TB "initiative" is indistinguishable from high TB speed, which isn't as good as 270% real speed unless you see Saga gunners instant-doubling most of the DL.
Ghaleon (Lunar) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X): Yuna doesn't like what's waiting for her next week either way, while Ghaleon just wishes he could win this one match!


Demigods

Asellus (Saga Frontier) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3): Don't think Asellus' evade tricks will work on Perfect Symmetry well offhand.
Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World): So uh Hilda runs into Lulu's evade, but Lulu runs into Hilda's statusblockers. Difference is obviously that Lulu has huge damage. Hilda can survive this on raw HP though, so no need to buff there. She'll probably alternate Grand Slam with healing... needing more of the latter due to not doubling constantly obviously... which uh means she doesn't get enough shots I'm pretty sure.
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics): Lucina doesn't have a -horrible- argument for blitzing this, but I don't think so.

Berle (Star Ocean 2) vs. Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG): This is very close. Berle is faster and I think he can just down Yaridovich in 3 Meta-Guards (=9 attacks). Berle's magic durability I'm hazier on... is two Willy Wisps (163% PCHP) enough? But wait, Yaridovich has MIRAGE ATTACK. He will use it the turn before Meta-Guard is going to expire, so on Berle's last turn he has to either cut his damage against Yaridovich (which he really doesn't want to do) to kill the mirage or eat over 50% more damage which he can't afford. Yeah he can't afford this. MIRAGE ATTACK hype, I am quite serious. Wow. Though wait, because of Berle's defence (and Yaridovich having to use physicals while the Mirage is around) means Yaridovich doesn't gain much damage. The magic number is now 172%.
Jack van Burace (Wild Arms) vs. Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II): Faster. Go away, Jack.
Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs. Raquel (Wild Arms 4): Mm, don't think any of Raquel's blockers are analogous to Pain, and anyway Slow would probably wreck her just as bad.
Ryu Bateson (Breath of Fire 2) vs. Dorothy Gale (The Wizard of Oz): Block sleep. WoO turns give me headaches but kneejerking that Ryu should survive to get a turn.


Heroes

Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2): Chat says she's just durable enough to not be 2HKOed by Luminaire (and can certainly Quick-double non-Swallow Crono, so Confuse is out).
Nina (Breath of Fire 1) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem): Hold.

Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2) vs. Basilio (Fire Emblem: Awakening): Basilio should manage the low 2HKO here which Ashley can't deal with at all.
Marle (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lazlo (Suikoden IV): So Marle cuts magic by 42%, that should make Lazlo's stupid ID move not turn 1. Apply confuse (which is very accurate), mock.
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs. Eruca (Radiant Historia): Yep, she has the resources for this.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 06:38:06 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Pyro

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2013, 03:07:25 AM »
Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Dark Force (Phantasy Star series): Durability difference is impressive but so is the speed. So yeah.
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs. Violetta (Grandia 3): Violetta isn't killing Lady before she gets a turn or coming all that close.
TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Belial (Wild Arms 4): 4-D Pocket... again. This is what Belial is pretty much. Beat all PCs ever no questions asked no exceptions to the rule.
Ghaleon (Lunar) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X): Magus Sisters.


Demigods

Asellus (Saga Frontier) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3)
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3)
Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World): Gale/Grand Slam? Was Grand Slam evadable?
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Berle (Star Ocean 2) vs. Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG)
Jack van Burace (Wild Arms) vs. Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II): Maybe Dhyer can convince me otherwise.
Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs. Raquel (Wild Arms 4): Status.
Ryu Bateson (Breath of Fire 2) vs. Dorothy Gale (The Wizard of Oz): Ryu2 blocks Sleep. Dorothy does not block G.Drgn.


Heroes

Adachi (Persona 4) vs. Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant): No idea.
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2): Reflect. Isn't 2-HKO'd with Luminaire/Confuse. Certainly isn't 3-2d.
Nina (Breath of Fire 1) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem): Guy's Res sucks, so this works? Hold blocks the counters. Nina WAS above average ACT at normal endgame levels right?
Momo (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun)

Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2) vs. Basilio (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Marle (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lazlo (Suikoden IV): Did either game's status care aboutMdef? Probably not. Don't see a reason to force the check then.
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs. Eruca (Radiant Historia): Divine Light and G-Frost works? She does do a lot of damage after all.
Alfina (Grandia III) vs. Klein (Atelier Iris): Klein's Mdef/elemental resist was pretty great. Does it save him? Probably not. I don't think AI1 had an Earth element... So Alfina just hits the bad HP.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2013, 03:46:04 AM »
Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Dark Force (Phantasy Star series)
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs. Violetta (Grandia 3)
TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Belial (Wild Arms 4)
Ghaleon (Lunar) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X)


Demigods

Asellus (Saga Frontier) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3)
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3)
Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)- Yeah, Lulu's evade isn't getting this (Sure, Grand Slam hitting all 3 zones definitely gives it a better argument for further ITE, not that I particuarly see Lulu's evade getting past SH 3 techs in general since it's not FE/Soul Nomad level)

Berle (Star Ocean 2) vs. Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG)- Just running off NEB's analysis, I do see Berle as having that HP level. And yeah, assuming I guess SMRPG boss physicals are halved. Mirage is no good, because Berle's defense means that Yari using magic once is better than 2 physicals with Berle.

Semi tie break against the person who shouldn't be in the division anyways.

Jack van Burace (Wild Arms) vs. Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II)- Jowy is faster, but I don't see him OHKOing average, which is basically Jack. So Jack gets a turn->status
Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs. Raquel (Wild Arms 4)
Ryu Bateson (Breath of Fire 2) vs. Dorothy Gale (The Wizard of Oz)

Heroes

Adachi (Persona 4) vs. Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2)
Nina (Breath of Fire 1) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem)
Momo (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun)- Immunes status, statuses Ivan turn 1

Marle (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lazlo (Suikoden IV)- Did CT MDef magic status? Because I don't believe that S4 status did.
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs. Eruca (Radiant Historia)- So...Eruca is actually not great at MP here. But...I guess even needing to alternate blocking every other turn still gives her the MP for at least 6 or 7 G-Frosts, which would do it here.
Alfina (Grandia III) vs. Klein (Atelier Iris)- Klein just blocks Paralysis to me. Pyro, don't you allow synth on some levels? Blocking Paralysis/Sleep/Poison is the most legal probably in DL terms.
...into the nightfall.

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 04:17:21 AM »
Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Dark Force (Phantasy Star series)
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs. Violetta (Grandia 3)
TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Belial (Wild Arms 4) - Initiative kill
Ghaleon (Lunar) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X)


Demigods

Asellus (Saga Frontier) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3)
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3)
Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Berle (Star Ocean 2) vs. Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG)
Jack van Burace (Wild Arms) vs. Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II)
Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs. Raquel (Wild Arms 4) - Does Fang make Raquel EVEN SLOWER?
Ryu Bateson (Breath of Fire 2) vs. Dorothy Gale (The Wizard of Oz)


Heroes

Adachi (Persona 4) vs. Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2)
Nina (Breath of Fire 1) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem)
Momo (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun) -srsly who noms this

Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2) vs. Basilio (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - HELL YEAH!
Marle (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lazlo (Suikoden IV)
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs. Eruca (Radiant Historia) - it's opposites day
Alfina (Grandia III) vs. Klein (Atelier Iris)
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DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2013, 05:54:13 AM »
Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Dark Force (Phantasy Star series)
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs. Violetta (Grandia 3)
TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Belial (Wild Arms 4) - Boss TimeLord exists and should be immune to 4D pocket. Pretty sure his boss form can still OD Belial into paste.
Ghaleon (Lunar) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X) - I have pretty high Ghaleon durability respect, but not quite enough for the Aeon Parade. Good match from where I'm standing.


Demigods

Asellus (Saga Frontier) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3) - I guess?
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3) - Fogel durability respect does not outweigh Earthquake damage hype~
Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - I have no clue.
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics) - And so falls our final timetravelling secret princess...

Berle (Star Ocean 2) vs. Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG) - don't care
Jack van Burace (Wild Arms) vs. Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II) - WAo Jack is fun.
Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs. Raquel (Wild Arms 4) - Sure, I'll bite on FF13 status being cool
Ryu Bateson (Breath of Fire 2) vs. Dorothy Gale (The Wizard of Oz) - I feel like if she's quadraturning, she should have some kind of fuckery that takes this match. Can G Dragon be Mirrored?


Heroes

Adachi (Persona 4) vs. Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) - General SMT boss durability respect is higher than SH2 boss respect in general...
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2) - I may be misremembering, but I definitely see Crono's damage as higher than most, which should be more than enough for the 1% that others are seeing Lilka skirt by on.
Nina (Breath of Fire 1) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem) - Hold hype go~
Momo (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun) - Momo immunes Ivan's status game, but Ivan may be fast enough to double? I suspect double Spark Plasma KOs. If not then Momo statuses him out.

Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2) vs. Basilio (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Marle (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lazlo (Suikoden IV) - ID, or hell, *lets Lazlo use his STactics form*~
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs. Eruca (Radiant Historia) - Divine Light hype against a Divine Dragon? Sure.
Alfina (Grandia III) vs. Klein (Atelier Iris) - When in doubt, trust Dhyer on AI1.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2013, 06:06:40 AM »
Ryu Bateson (Breath of Fire 2) vs. Dorothy Gale (The Wizard of Oz): Block sleep. WoO turns give me headaches but kneejerking that Ryu should survive to get a turn.

Take the 2nd turn at -1 from the first (since it seems to generally go after Lion's first), the 3rd at -1.5 or the 4th at -2 or something like? So she'll generally get in a turn to throw up Reflect or Sleep, but using Meltdown and restoring HP isn't a guarantee.
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2013, 05:25:05 PM »
Surprised at all the Jack votes so far. While I can respect saying Jowy doesn't OHKO (although I disagree, it involves handing out phantom runes to other PCs in the cast AND ignoring that the Suikoden 2 damage figures are taken against 0 defence which disproportionately favours fighters), Jack has a host of problems in this match and am surprised at the calls he is getting on other fronts.

Jowy is almost certainly faster. While they're very close on SDs, two things should help tilt it Jowy's way:
-WA1 speed differences in-game are paltry. Equipping a speed-boosting rune on Rudy, for instance (game-worst) will make him faster than Jack. Checking SI's FAQ, all but one boss in the final dungeon is "slower than everyone" or "faster than everyone", further devaluing speed differences. I don't encourage people to take WA1o speed SDs at full extent. S2, on the other hand? It has a much larger speed spread, and is much harder to close gaps with equips, and for enemies... check the boss stat topic. Bosses are all over the place but very often fall in the mid-range of PC speeds, to reward the faster ones.
-The stats listed for Jowy in the stat topic are assuming hacked-in Jowy at equal levels. However, in-game, Jowy is a temp who is level 60 while your other PCs are still in the low 50's. I'm not sure how much of a respect push I'd give him for this, but every little bit helps, here.

Finally, there's the issue of how Jack is winning: a 70% ID move. What stats should it check? I really have no idea. I will note, though, that Jowy is notably above average on both defences (and evasion for that matter), and if you use a 67% threshold it won't take much to push the ID down. If you want to say it ignores all stats? Okay, sure... but he needed turn 1 status last week too (Wakka's is 100%, if Wakka gets a turn he wins), and needs it this week... overall chance of getting both is 49%. Chances are he should lose at some point!

(Holistically, of course, there's also the issue that Jack's ID move sucks, it is gained late when ID immunity is running rampant.)

tl;dr Jack has lots of problems with the match this week and feels like he needs a lot of calls in his favour, especially considering last week's match too.

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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2013, 06:40:41 PM »
In fairness, he can open with much more accurate Confusion and then ID while they spam attacking the air. No clue if his earlier ST ID move's hit rate is, so guess won't give that credit either way.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2013, 07:18:14 PM »
I remember Psycho Crack's confusion rate being absolutely awful, never mind that it can wear off randomly.

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Pyro

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2013, 11:11:12 PM »
Djinn, Crono has to 2HKO Lilka with Luminaire + Confuse, since LIlka will just Reflect -> Heal and she's not 3-2d. Crono can't 2HKO with Luminaire+Confuse so she should win without much trouble.

Not sure how Jack is faster than Jowy. I will say that Jowy is an untwinkable temp and so you could argue that he ought be scaled against a twinked party at the time you have him, and not included in the final averages.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 11:16:14 PM by Pyro »

Reiska

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2013, 11:32:24 PM »
Divinities

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Dark Force (Phantasy Star series): Kneejerk, but probably a safe one.
Ghaleon (Lunar) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZakC30vtOtE

Demigods

Asellus (Saga Frontier) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3): kneejerk.
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics): Lucina trashes Nice Body, but 6 of Grand Cross' statuses are bad for Lucina to varying degrees (SnowFire, you forgot Frog, which should trash Lucina just as effectively as Petrify/Sleep/Confuse will), and honestly I'd say Slow might as well give her the win too, so I really don't see Lucina getting past Perfect Body.

Berle (Star Ocean 2) vs. Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG): Need more time to consider this one.
Jack van Burace (Wild Arms) vs. Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II): Unless someone provides solid evidence that Jack can lock down Jowy somehow to have time to spam ID, Jowy takes this one I think.

Heroes

Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2): Lilka can stall infinitely, Crono can't OHKO, so even if he could 2HKO with Luminaire, the best he can do is heal-lock her until he burns his MP out.
Nina (Breath of Fire 1) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem): FE duelers just really don't like status, and I think Nina can pull off a Hold.
Momo (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun): Momo's status immunity hoses Ivan.

Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2) vs. Basilio (Fire Emblem: Awakening): Tentative, but this one doesn't look good for Ashley.

SnowFire

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2013, 02:22:07 AM »
Random, I'm with you on not letting Belial 4D Pocket PCs, but I don't think TimeLord *needs* MT to beat Belial?  The distortion is not THAT tanky, nor is Belial.  PC TL should just be able to smash through it then kill Belial.

Elf, I'm totally down with all those reasons to disrespect Jack, especially the fact that his status is scrubby in-game as well as the "I hate it when a 70% odds of status repeatedly wins out in a tournament" argument.  I just am even more inclined to disrespect Jowy.  As Pyro already noted, there's pretty good reason that even if you don't use the S2 average which twinks everyone out normally, you should for temps like Jowy.  (This is more obvious for games where the main cast has lots of DL-illegal options and a temp with unchangeable but clearly DL-legal abilites joins up - the temp should be scaled vs. PCs who are set up as they would be in-game.)  More generally, eh.  Suiko 2 is a game with a lot of runeless scrubs who get screwed over.  This is true of a lot of Suikoden games, true, but Suiko 3 avoids some of the worst of it (RODY) which means less random inflation of the averages.  (Of course, the prince of this problem is Radiata Stories, where characters are clearly meant to be obsoleted as you recruit more due to never really growing, and you mix things up by constantly inducting new characters in...)  I'm not going to hose the averages, but I'm going to be fairly willing to tiebreak against 'em.

Reiska: Hmm, good point, I did.  And...  bah.  That's 4/8 sure win statuses, and since Slow & Darkness give Altima a shot for another turn, and Aether isn't entirely reliable on turn 1 anyway...  that probably does mean Lucina's odds get tipped the other way, even if Altima is granted only 1.25 PCHP exactly.  Well, it was a nice shot, but yeah, status blitz sounds like it works (even if I'd still want to vote for Lucina vs. the All-Ultima strat which tends to hurt Altima a lot in-game due to charge time.)

Lazlo vs. Marle: CT does have status attacks that don't have perfect accuracy, but checking, the "Mechanics Guide" in GameFAQs isn't very good, so I have no idea if CT MDef matters a darn.  And Dhyer claims S4 enemy MDef either doesn't matter vs. status.  Bah, I suspect it's Lazlo's match then unless someone wants to go run some tests vs. Ocean Palace Lavos's confuse or whatever.

Random Consonant

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2013, 03:59:47 AM »
Belial's Distortion itself is nearly average PC on durability factoring in the fact that it roughly halves damage, add that to Belial's own roughly 0.7ish PCHP and I'm not sure how TL powers through that with his not-very-good-per-shot-particularly-during-overdrive ST damage.  I actually kinda checked this beforehand too, so yeah, if I had reason to think he could get by on just ST I would've mentioned it!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 04:02:12 AM by Random Consonant »

Monkeyfinger

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2013, 04:12:57 AM »
Divinities

TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Belial (Wild Arms 4): I cap TB speed when calculating doubleturns. However for determining who goes first or how turns get traded turns in a high speed battle, I don't see a really high CTB value beating any kind of initiative or infinite speed.
Ghaleon (Lunar) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X)


Demigods

Asellus (Saga Frontier) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3)
Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World): Alternate healing and grand slam attempts. I see it as evadeable but I don't see lulu's evade as 85% or whatever.

Berle (Star Ocean 2) vs. Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG)
Jack van Burace (Wild Arms) vs. Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II)
Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs. Raquel (Wild Arms 4)

Heroes

Adachi (Persona 4) vs. Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)
Nina (Breath of Fire 1) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem)

Sara (Breath of Fire) vs. Eruca (Radiant Historia): G Frost hitting Sara's bad magic defense does about a bar of PCHP in damage, and if she alternates it with divine light she can cast it 6 times, which should be a pretty easy kill. Since she goes first and likely doubleturns at some point, she can probably cut a divine light or two and replace them with more G Frost. This is kind of a once sided match imo.

SnowFire

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2013, 08:44:48 PM »
This closes tomorrow night.

Magic Fanatic

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2013, 06:26:26 AM »
Demigods

Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) - Grand Slam in one should do it.

Jack van Burace (Wild Arms) vs. Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II) - I'm...  Not actually sure how I want to interpret Jowy.  Guess I'll give it to Jack myself, since he can stack more things to disable with, while Jowy has a 2HKO.  Maybe less, if I decide this "scale him in averages with ONLY HIM AND RIOU" is actually something worth thinking about, but it doesn't seem like a really worthwhile train of thought.


Heroes

Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2) - Crono can't keep the pressure on Lilka forever.

Marle (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lazlo (Suikoden IV)

SnowFire

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2013, 12:49:45 AM »
Results.

Xorn (Grandia III) vs. Dark Force (Phantasy Star series)
Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs. Violetta (Grandia 3)
TimeLord (Saga Frontier) vs. Belial (Wild Arms 4) (6-4)
Ghaleon (Lunar) vs. Yuna (Final Fantasy X)

--

Asellus (Saga Frontier) vs. Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean 3)
Fogel (Ogre Battle) vs. Sasarai (Suikoden 3) (6-2)
Lulu (Final Fantasy X) vs. Hildagarde Valentine (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) (1-10)
Lucina (Fire Emblem: Awakening) vs. Altima (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Berle (Star Ocean 2) vs. Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG) (4-1)
Jack van Burace (Wild Arms) vs. Jowy Atreides (Suikoden II) (6-7)
Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs. Raquel (Wild Arms 4)
Ryu Bateson (Breath of Fire 2) vs. Dorothy Gale (The Wizard of Oz)

--

Adachi (Persona 4) vs. Veronica Vera (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) (4-3)
Crono (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lilka (Wild Arms 2)
Nina (Breath of Fire 1) vs. Guy (Fire Emblem)
Momo (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Ivan (Golden Sun)

Ashley Winchester (Wild Arms 2) vs. Basilio (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Marle (Chrono Trigger) vs. Lazlo (Suikoden IV)
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs. Eruca (Radiant Historia)
Alfina (Grandia III) vs. Klein (Atelier Iris) (1-2)

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Shift Tourney: Week 3
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2013, 12:57:39 AM »
Uh...wow, didn't realize people were voting for Adachi. Last Strike+Veronica is magic(physicals is were his durability is)+at worst 3HKOs him. So you have to see Adachi 2HKOing her and her not 2HKOing him, which is kind of questionable. Not like it matters now, but seems like a clear case of faster mage who can't be IDed>Adachi.
...into the nightfall.