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Author Topic: Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.  (Read 1867 times)

superaielman

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Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.
« on: August 26, 2013, 08:49:41 PM »
Enrique- Justice Shield doesn't translate to the DL, but he does have some decent offense in Royal Blade...eventually.
Paula-  See title.
Miriel- FE13 character. She is likely to be better than the... ah... amazing first two fighters.

Enrique vs Jade (TotA)
Enrique vs Squall (FF8)
Enrique vs Guntz (SF1)
Enrique vs Boyd (FE9)
Enrique vs Lise (SD3)
Enrique vs Tio (G2)
Enrique vs Kongol (LoD)
Enrique vs Sacred Slayer (XF)
Enrique vs Baigan (FF4)
Enrique vs Karn (BoF1)
Enrique vs Saradin (OB)
Enrique vs Cotton (Saga)

Paula(EB) vs Jade (TotA)
Paula vs Squall (FF8)
Paula vs Guntz (SF1)
Paula vs Boyd (FE9)
Paula vs Lise (SD3)
Paula vs Tio (G2)
Paula vs Kongol (LoD)
Paula vs Sacred Slayer (XF)
Paula vs Baigan (FF4)
Paula vs Karn (BoF1)
Paula vs Saradin (OB)
Paula vs Cotton (Saga)

Miriel vs Jade (TotA)
Miriel vs Squall (FF8)
Miriel vs Guntz (SF1)
Miriel vs Boyd (FE9)
Miriel vs Lise (SD3)
Miriel vs Tio (G2)
Miriel vs Kongol (LoD)
Miriel vs Sacred Slayer (XF)
Miriel vs Baigan (FF4)
Miriel vs Karn (BoF1)
Miriel vs Saradin (OB)
Miriel vs Cotton (Saga)
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 09:23:45 PM by superaielman »
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superaielman

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Re: Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2013, 09:24:08 PM »
Enrique vs Jade (TotA)- 2HKO. Enrique goes first even, it doesn't help.
Enrique vs Squall (FF8)- Enrique runs out of time before he can buff to any kind of fatal limit.
Enrique vs Guntz (SF1)- Tanking.
Enrique vs Boyd (FE9)- Enrique has WTA, but I don't think it's enough. Boyd does too much damage.
Enrique vs Lise (SD3)- Goes first, should be enough. Petrify might tip this (Lise is pretty scrubby on offense) but I'm kneejerking that it doesn't.
Enrique vs Tio (G2)- See above, with extra ;_; for Tio speed.
Enrique vsKongol (LoD)- ID at worst. Kongol also blocks stone.
Enrique vs Sacred Slayer (XF)- Petrify tips this, I think.
Enrique vs Baigan (FF4)- Owned by Baigan? Sad.
Enrique vs Karn (BoF1)- Speed.
Enrique vs Saradin (OB)- Saradin is hilariously bad against fighters. Enrique gets a OHKO on turn two with Royal Blade, which almost never happens.
Enrique vs Cotton (Saga)- GOOD LORD. Cotton's one good defense stat is pierce, which means Enrique has to buff up to an incremed The Judgement to win. He has enough time to do that due to Cotton offense.

Enrique- 3-9
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2013, 01:24:33 AM »
Miriel is one of those duellers who is difficult to judge her best class for. +28% damage versus +39% physical durability (and +16% magic durability)? How much does +2 AS matter in Light, a division which presumably has a decent number of sluggish people? Guess we'll see.

Miriel vs Jade (TotA): Jade 3HKOs Sage and 4HKOs Dark Knight. Sage 3HKOs Jade while Dark Knight 3-4HKOs. Either way, definitely inclined to see Miriel as faster (it's a no-brainer with DK). DK's a bit better for this fight, but I don't think it matters.
Miriel vs Squall (FF8): OHKOs Sage, doesn't fear two shots from Dark Knight. Or three, if you see her going first.
Miriel vs Guntz (SF1): Guntz 2HKOs either way, and has less threat range either way so Miriel gets in 3 shots either way. ... and 3HKOs either way.
Miriel vs Boyd (FE9): Boyd 2HKOs with a Hand Axe either way, and no doubling is going on (although Sage is kinda close), and Miriel certainly isn't 2HKOing Boyd.
Miriel vs Lise (SD3): Silence!
Miriel vs Tio (G2): Tio has a counter-avoiding 2HKO on Sage, and a counter-avoiding 3HKO on Dark Knight, and obviously isn't dying to 1-2 shots.
Miriel vs Kongol (LoD): oh god she even has wind magic, this is gross. She one-rounds as regardless of her job choice, and doesn't have to.
Miriel vs Sacred Slayer (XF): Yikes, Miriel just misses doubling, which she may well badly need here. Sage 4HKOs, Dark Knight 5HKOs, Sacred Slayer can heal... a lot. Sage's extra damage is obviously very helpful here for putting on pressure, although it looks like SS can largely alternate attacking and healing when she isn't doubleturned... those doubleturns slow her down though, and Miriel can get up to 12% crit and should win eventually with that (unless one happens riiight after a fullheal). DK puts on less pressure which gives Sacred Slayer more room to maneuver. Dunno if it's enough though, there's still no way around a crit at a bad time being fatal, and it takes SS even longer to win in this case.
Miriel vs Baigan (FF4): Baigan 2HKOs Sage and 3HKOs Dark Knight. Not that it really matters, lol Reflect counters.
Miriel vs Karn (BoF1): Karn also 2HKOs Sage and 3HKOs Dark Knight. Miriel 3HKOs either way against Karn's slightly below average HP. Karn's faster, and if he 2HKOs this is fairly easy, but against DK I think he's screwed (he's close to doubling, but nope). A clear victory for Dark Knight! Abstain for now.
Miriel vs Cotton (Saga): Sage one-rounds Cotton. DK has more trouble, but still is fast enough to double (good lord, Cotton speed) so it's an easy heal-lock until Thoron crit at worst.

Miriel 5-5, with an eleventh battle hinging on a form choice I haven't made yet. This did confirm for me that it's a very good fight for formchoice, for her.

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Re: Proving grounds Light: :byodame: is in full effect.
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2013, 02:17:15 AM »
Paula (EB) vs Jade Curtiss (TotA) - Jade 2HKOs Paula WITH HIS PHYSICAL COMBO (barely, but he does). And OHKOs her with magic. Paula might as well use her opening turn to put on a blindfold and light up a cigarette, it's less of a waste of time. IN FACT, this is a recurring theme for most of this pool.
Paula vs Squall Leonhart (FF8) - If he doesn't OHKO, he comes staggeringly close. And he goes first. EDIT: He OHKOs. Man, Paula, Paula.
Paula vs Guntz (SF1) - 2HKOs, gets 3HKOed at best back.
Paula vs Boyd (FE9) - Paula generally doesn't win against physical fighters who 2HKO her. This is ALMOST ALL OF THEM. EDIT: And let's not talk about fighters who OHKO her, which is Boyd's case.
Paula vs Lise (SD3) - I kneejerk Marduke as faster than Paula, which is all kinds of awful. Even if not, a two-rounding is certainly within reach. And utterly unnecessary.
Paula vs Tio (G2) - . Paula has an uncanny knack for giving low-end sluggers 2HKO damage.
Paula vs Kongol (LoD) - EDIT: my kneejerk is to trust Dhyer on LoD mechanics crazy. Have some more .
Paula vs Sacred Slayer (XF) - This depends entirely on how you interpret status odds. Sacred Slayer damage is horrendously bad - as in, 7HKOs Paula before Fragile bad, and this gives her enough time to land Freeze (HOW OFTEN IS THAT STATUS EVEN RELEVANT!?). Since I force magical status to check against RES and SS has tons of it, tough luck. EDIT: FREEZE SUCKS. GOOD LORD, PAULA.
Paula vs Baigan (FF4) - He just wins the way most people win against Paula: by 2HKOing her first.
Paula vs Karn (BoF1) - See above. Good lord, Paula, stop giving Lights 2HKO damage.
Paula vs Saradin (OB) - EDIT: Sexy mage physicals to the rescue. applies.
Paula vs Cotton (Saga) - Okay, Freeze sucking means Paula's racing against the clock here, since she only has nine shots of Freeze Omega and fifteen shots of Freeze Gamma. She needs to freeze either before or during a double to win, but Cotton can screw this up just by spamming his healing over and over and over again, meaning -he- is the one who gets the doubles, slowly overwhelming Paula. On the other hand, he's 55% average speed when not spamming healing, and a Freeze Gamma+two Freeze Omegas 3HKO Cotton. I suppose she -just- manages to get the timing right, since a Freeze also screws up Cotton's pseudo-speed game. Dear -lord-, Paula, you struggle to beat COTTON. GRANTED, SHE DOES SPOIL MIA :garcia:   

1-10. Paula is so bad, guys. So, so bad. Magic immunity that takes up a turn is borderline -useless- when you can't slugfest your way out of a plastic bag (0.54x durability across the board? Nine shots of 4HKO elemental damage as your money offense?). COTTON has a very sensible argument to beat her, and when you're having competitive fights against low-end SaGa monsters, you know you're really in the dregs.

For Miriel, I take her as a Sage.

Miriel vs Jade Curtiss (TotA) - If Jade Meteor Swarms, he gets doubled by Miriel to me, and he doesn't 2HKO with his physical combo either - which gets him countered. Feels pretty straight-forward, since she 3HKOs him pretty flat.
Miriel vs Squall Leonhart (FF8) - Ow, OHKO.
Miriel vs Guntz (SF1) - Wins the initiative tiebreak, avoids the OHKO and counters. Once again, straight-forward.
Miriel vs Boyd (FE9) - Scrapes the OHKO - or, if not, Hand Axe+whatever do it.
Miriel vs Lise (SD3) - Marduke.
Miriel vs Tio (G2) - 2HKOs first, doesn't get 2HKOed herself.
Miriel vs Kongol (LoD) - Sweet jesus, Miriel doubles and strikes weakness with Rexcalibur. This is -ugly-.
Miriel vs Sacred Slayer (XF) - Miriel 4HKOs Sacred Slayer, but counters her appalling damage right and left, forcing her to heal every time she attacks, and the crap accuracy doesn't speak in SS's favor. Since her healing isn't even full, it's entirely possible Sacred Slayer gets outpaced. For now, will stick with Miriel.
Miriel vs Baigan (FF4) - 2HKOs, isn't 2HKOed and Reflect utterly screws Miriel over.
Miriel vs Karn (BoF1) - Don't think he quite doubles, but he 2HKOs and isn't 2HKOed back. It's enough.
Miriel vs Saradin (OB) - I s'pose. Physical-elemental spells mean he 2HKOs.
Miriel vs Cotton (Saga) - Miriel doubles and 2HKOs. The end.

5-8. Way over her head in Middle, but clearly a capable Light. In spite of the almost Paulatastic pdur, she fares much better due to having actual 3HKO damage and counters.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 05:35:18 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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Random Consonant

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Re: Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2013, 02:25:08 AM »
Paula vs Squall (FF8) - 2HKOs at absolute worst.
Paula vs Guntz (SF1) - 2HKOs at absolute worst.
Paula vs Boyd (FE9) - 2HKOs at absolute worst.
Paula vs Lise (SD3) - Surely has something relevent.
Paula vs Tio (G2) - 2HKOs at absolute worst.
Paula vs Kongol (LoD) - ...
Paula vs Baigan (FF4)
Paula vs Cotton (Saga) - ......

Miriel vs Squall (FF8)
Miriel vs Guntz (SF1)
Miriel vs Boyd (FE9)
Miriel vs Lise (SD3)
Miriel vs Tio (G2)
Miriel vs Kongol (LoD)
Miriel vs Baigan (FF4)
Miriel vs Cotton (Saga)

superaielman

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Re: Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2013, 05:32:01 AM »
Quote
Paula vs Saradin (OB) - Do I see his physical-elemental spells as going past Magic Shield? Sure. applies.


Nope, those trigger the world card effect in game. Saradin roughly does 80~ damage (average: 127) with his physicals. The bad news for Paula is that Saradin is extremely evasive to magic and is faster to boot, so she is getting outslugged that way.

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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2013, 06:02:05 AM »
Enrique vs Jade (TotA)- 2HKOs?
Enrique vs Squall (FF8)- Squall...I think
Enrique vs Guntz (SF1)- Guntz
Enrique vs Boyd (FE9)- Boyd
Enrique vs Lise (SD3)- Lise
Enrique vs Tio (G2)- I would imagine
Enrique vs Kongol (LoD)
Enrique vs Sacred Slayer (XF)
Enrique vs Baigan (FF4)- Middle
Enrique vs Karn (BoF1)- Suspect that Drachma and Gilder's level penalty means that Karn avoids the 3HKO
Enrique vs Saradin (OB)- Saradin


Paula(EB) vs Jade (TotA)
Paula vs Squall (FF8)
Paula vs Guntz (SF1)
Paula vs Boyd (FE9)
Paula vs Lise (SD3)
Paula vs Tio (G2)
Paula vs Kongol (LoD)- LoD speed only matters 1/2 effect turn 1 I believe, so she fails the 3-2
Paula vs Sacred Slayer (XF)- Freeze only lasts a 1 turn anyways
Paula vs Baigan (FF4)
Paula vs Karn (BoF1)- Karn
Paula vs Saradin (OB)- Saradin

Enrique 2-9 (Flush)
Paula 0-11 (Could nab a few though...maybe)
...into the nightfall.

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2013, 06:25:53 AM »
Miriel vs Jade (TotA)
Miriel vs Squall (FF8)
Miriel vs Guntz (SF1)
Miriel vs Boyd (FE9)
Miriel vs Lise (SD3)
Miriel vs Tio (G2)
Miriel vs Kongol (LoD)
Miriel vs Sacred Slayer (XF)
Miriel vs Baigan (FF4)
Miriel vs Karn (BoF1)
Miriel vs Saradin (OB)
Miriel vs Cotton (Saga)

6-6!
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Re: Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 11:41:51 AM »
Quote
Paula vs Saradin (OB) - Do I see his physical-elemental spells as going past Magic Shield? Sure. applies.


Nope, those trigger the world card effect in game. Saradin roughly does 80~ damage (average: 127) with his physicals. The bad news for Paula is that Saradin is extremely evasive to magic and is faster to boot, so she is getting outslugged that way.



Post his physical damage in the topic! It matters for cases like this! Regardless, practical effect is the same, if your physical damage is at least 70% average damage, you'll be hard-pressed to lose to Paula.
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SnowFire

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Re: Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2013, 09:32:29 PM »
Elf votes SGTM for Miriel so that, except Karn > Miriel; Miriel is not THAT fast, she's getting doubled and losing horribly to me.

Enrique vs Jade (TotA) - 2HKOs first.
Enrique vs Squall (FF8) - 2HKOs first.
Enrique vs Boyd (FE9) - 2HKOs first despite weapon triangle?
Enrique vs Lise (SD3) - 3HKOs first anyway.
Enrique vs Tio (G2) - 3HKOs first.
Enrique vs Kongol (LoD) - Kongol is only 2HKOing, and probably gives Enrique 3 turns to shoot crappy magic at him.  Maybe.  EDIT: See below.
Enrique vs Sacred Slayer (XF)
Enrique vs Baigan (FF4) - Baigan is not really Light.  (Also grargh at the stat topic omitting the arm's damage.)
Enrique vs Karn (BoF1) - 3HKOs first.
Enrique vs Saradin (OB)

EDIT: Sure I'll buy the magic antihype, I suppose.  Normally "has some form of magic at all" is enough to defeat Kongol.
EDIT EDIT: But Kongol doesn't 2HKO, WTF.

3-7.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 07:42:07 PM by SnowFire »

superaielman

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Re: Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2013, 10:17:50 PM »
Enrique's magic is all kinds of terrible.

Quote
Electri: 285 Thunder Magic, 2 SP
Electres: 365 Thunder Magic, 4 SP
Electrum: 455 Thunder, 6 SP

He gets three SP a round, so he gets two Electris and a Electres off against Kongol. That's not even close to cutting it; he probably can't 4HKO Kongol with magic.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 10:21:10 PM by superaielman »
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2013, 10:44:55 PM »
Looks like Enrique does 5HKO Kongol with magic. What he may do though is 3-2 (Kongol is 62.5% speed; and generally 80% speed turn 1 since LoD speed matters half as much. Enrique is -.55 SD from average, so 92% by my reckoning, but generally worse). Lower levels for Gilder/Drachma may let him 3-2, but only if you hold Kongol's turn 1 speed to 62.5 instead of 81.25%.

That said, Kongol doesn't 2HKO with him his basic physical. Of course, I guess since I allow LoD to start with 2 bars of SP, it doesn't matter much since that pushes Enrique's kill point even further back.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 10:49:13 PM by Dhyerwolf »
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SnowFire

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Re: Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2013, 07:41:17 PM »
And after I'd edited that to a Kongol vote...  Kongol doesn't 2HKO?!  So much failure.  (Well, with no starting SP.)  So now the question is if Enrique gets the 5-3 as Dhyer was getting at, and I'm inclined to kneejerk yes.  Horrible magic takes the day after all!

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2013, 08:45:32 PM »
Kongol offense is hilariously bad considering his speed. He like 4HKOs average (a low 4HKO, even, I think?). If he even came close to a 2HKO to average, I think he'd be more of a low Middle than a pretty average Light.
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superaielman

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Re: Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2013, 09:48:26 PM »
Kongol's damage is right around average. The bigger issue is the speed/Mdef combo, it's real bad.
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2013, 11:30:23 PM »
Huh, it is. It's just pretty much Ox-claused then. Woohoo effectively taking four enemy rounds to kill things.
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Re: Proving grounds Light: -* is in full effect.
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2013, 02:29:31 AM »
Enrique vs Jade (TotA)
Enrique vs Squall (FF8)
Enrique vs Guntz (SF1)
Enrique vs Boyd (FE9)
Enrique vs Lise (SD3)
Enrique vs Tio (G2)
Enrique vs Kongol (LoD)
Enrique vs Sacred Slayer (XF)
Enrique vs Baigan (FF4)
Enrique vs Karn (BoF1)
Enrique vs Saradin (OB)
Enrique vs Cotton (Saga)

Paula(EB) vs Jade (TotA)
Paula vs Squall (FF8)
Paula vs Guntz (SF1)
Paula vs Boyd (FE9)
Paula vs Lise (SD3)
Paula vs Tio (G2)
Paula vs Kongol (LoD)
Paula vs Sacred Slayer (XF)
Paula vs Baigan (FF4)
Paula vs Karn (BoF1)
Paula vs Saradin (OB)
Paula vs Cotton (Saga)

Paula is that bad, yes.

Miriel vs Jade (TotA)
Miriel vs Squall (FF8)
Miriel vs Guntz (SF1)
Miriel vs Boyd (FE9)
Miriel vs Lise (SD3)
Miriel vs Tio (G2)
Miriel vs Kongol (LoD)
Miriel vs Sacred Slayer (XF)
Miriel vs Baigan (FF4)
Miriel vs Karn (BoF1)
Miriel vs Saradin (OB)
Miriel vs Cotton (Saga)
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