Author Topic: Language learning scratch topic  (Read 2145 times)

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4381
    • View Profile
Language learning scratch topic
« on: September 14, 2013, 09:09:20 AM »
So...I'm starting to get a bit more serious about learning korean, and I kind of want to quiz myself, and see if I actually know how to spell some of these words outside of just hearing them and can spell them without cheating.  In theory, I know the audio of most of these words, and the korean alphabet is 100% phoenetic so I shouldn't get any of these wrong, right?  Right?  (So not happening)

So...let's see...

thank you

감사 (informal)
감사합니아 (formal)
고마와 ok no, wrong spelling/pronounciation
고마워

and...ok, totally missing some variations; let me cheat sheet... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POz6web6h_4

missing:
고마워요 (just add yo)
감사해요 (just add hey-yo)
고맙습니다 (ok, 습니다 is a super common polite ending, but wth did the ㅂ come from?)

I don't know

멀라 ha, wrong
몰라
나몰라

best

nope, wrong.


awesome/big win

대백 (wrong)
대박

king


And combining it with the above...
왕대박 (for super special awesome)

Who

누구
(and the phrase "with whom?")
누구하고
(formalized
누구하고요

foreigner

외국인

love

사랑
사랑해 (I love you)
사랑해요 (formal I love you)
사랑흡니다 (super formal)

what?

무엇
(let's see if I can remember "what to eat"
무엇모지 (not even close to the right spelling)
뭐목지 (for all that google translate doesn't believe in this one)

when?

언재 lolll screw the stupid ㅔ /ㅐ vowels.  They sound exactly the same to me, and I've seen videos by korean speakers who say "these sound the same to me."
언제
(let's see if I can remember the phrase "when to meet")
언제말나가 (there's three things wrong with this; I can't even complain about double consonants)
언제만날까

where?

오디에
(where is it)
오디이소 (nope)
오디있어

why?


(why are you acting like this)
왜그대 (wow, not even close to the right consonant)
왜그래

how?

어더개 lollll, right general sounds
어떻게

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4381
    • View Profile
Re: Language learning scratch topic
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2013, 07:16:02 PM »
internet abbriviations

ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ
(laughter - kekekekeke)

ㅠㅠ
(crying, tears)

ㅈㅈ
(gg)

swag/style

간지
(you've got style)
간지난다

sorry

미안
미안해
미안해요
쵀송흡니다 (goddamn it, why do 왜 and 외 sound basically identical to me?  I feel like they really shouldn't)
죄송흡니다 (oh, hm, it's also not 흡?  Ohh, I'm getting confused because of that one super weird conjugation of thank you.  In every other case it's 합니다).
죄송합니다
쇠송해요

Numbers!!!

only the sino-korean for now, because fuck the native korean number system.  I actually really like the sino korean system--studies have been done saying that people do mental math faster when numbers have fewer syllables, and everything in the sino korean system is one syllable.  It's also completely logical and decimal based--the way you say 21 is like...

two ten one

Not like, say, English, where 20, 30, etc all have special names, or french, where the way you say 94 is four twenty fourteen.

I'd praise the language for its numbers, if it didn't have a second number system that does everything wrong.

1: 일
2: 이
3: 삼
4: 사
5: 오
6: 육
7: 칠
8: whoops, 팔
9: 구
10: 십
1000: 천
100: 백

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4381
    • View Profile
Re: Language learning scratch topic
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2013, 03:59:38 AM »
year



month



Most of the months are just number-month, so like may is five month.  With some exceptions where some consonants are left out.

(june is pronounced 유  instead of 욱)
유월

(October is pronounced 시 instead of 십)
시월

Actually...that's just how they're pronounced; I wonder if that's not how they're written.  Let me check. Hmm...google translate translates both 시월 and 십월 as october.  Need a better source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7VJpwqlRBw

ok, looks like it is 유월 and 시월.

day

I don't remember, honestly.  일 sounds familiar, but I hope that's not it, because that's the same as 1.  Oh, it is, ok that's confusing.

일.

Real/really?

진짜

and I seriously don't remember how to make it formal, hold on, I'm just going to look this up.

진짜예요 (formal to elders)

진짜입니다 (super formal)

OMG/oh dear

아이고

sir/Man in his 40s+

아주시 (stupid double consonants)

아주씨

maam Woman in her 40s/50s+

아주마 (nope.  Liasongs probably:/)

아줌아 (still no.  I'm going to look this up.)

아줌마
(Wow, two ㅁs?  Who does that, wtf...er...I mean, 아이고)

Mother

오마 (hmm...maybe this is another double ㅁ bs moment)

옴마 (used by mostly young children, but traditions are changing).
어머니 (used by adults towards their parents, and people who know the parents well)
어머님 (used towards your inlaws/friends parents, especially when you meet them for the first time.

Father

아빠 (same as above, young children)
아버지 (same as the second one; used by adults towards their parents, and to parents who you've become close friends with)
아버님 (used towards inlaws/friends parents)

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4381
    • View Profile
Re: Language learning scratch topic
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2013, 05:37:10 AM »
and now things people have obviously been waiting for.

Turns out Starjeweled is fully translated into korean.  The korean name is...

별난 보석

Which google translate tells me translates roughly into "freaky jewlery".  Google translate tends to be pretty questionable in general, though.  별난 is unusual according to google translate.  보석 is jewel according to google translate.  So...seems reasonable, although perhaps "freaky jewel" might be a better translation.  Interestingly, this does not appear to be the korean name for bejeweled, so this is a name unique to starjeweled.

취소

Apparently means cancel; I'm just learning this as I attempt to navigate menus.

에너지

energy.  Looks like a word borrowed directly from English, actually (pronounced enohjee).

잘하셨습니다

the phrase that replaces "good job", which is funny because it's the simplest combo, and has a 6 syllable response.  습니다 is the hyper polite ending.  Google translate translates it as "you are good at".  It translates 잘하  as "good at".  I have no clue what 셨 is all about; must be some kind of grammatical connector.

승리

Victory!

끝내줍니다

the phrase that replaces one of the higher combo values (possibly "excellent").  Hell if I know what it means, other than it looks very polite.  Google translate translates it as "will end."  Although, I think the text here might not match with the voiceover, which sure sounds like it ends in 요.



versus

Notably, the ladder mode selection is like... 1대1, 2대2, 3대3, 4대4

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4381
    • View Profile
Re: Language learning scratch topic
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2013, 03:29:15 AM »
So...for all that I've done no real exhaustive studying of grammar, I'm starting to get some sense of verbs and whatnot.

Verbs tend to be the last word in the sentence.  Uncojugated verbs tend to end in 다.

Some verbs include...

가다 (go)
하다 (do...although google translate is claiming about a dozen translations including have, make, play, give, pay, act, say, cost)
니다 (I'm seeing this one a lot, especially in starcraft; google translate claims it's "is")

I also know you can replace the 다 with other things for other conjugations.  For instance, 지마 makes it don't.

가지마 (don't go)
하지마 (don't / don't do / stop it)


I don't know if 니지마 is a thing.  Google translate doesn't seem to think so.  Although it does seem to recognize 합니지마.  Maybe 합니다 is the actual "is" verb, and 니다 is some kind of contraction?

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4381
    • View Profile
Re: Language learning scratch topic
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2013, 05:07:29 AM »
ㅎㅎㅎ

is apparently another form of laughing on the internet.  ㅋㅋㅋ is apparently more laughing at something, ㅎㅎㅎ is more laughing about something.

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4381
    • View Profile
Re: Language learning scratch topic
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2013, 07:56:27 AM »
Alright, so I'm going to take notes from SC2 to try and learn the unit names

drone
일벌레
(workaholic)

larva
애벌레
(larva/grub)

zergling
저글링
(phoenetically close to zergling)

queen
여왕
(queen)

roach
바퀴
(cockroach.  Also means wheel)

baneling
맹독충
(banelings.  Guess it's just a made-up word?  Although...I don't think so; apparently 충 is insect.  and 맹독 is poison, so...poison insect)

hatchery
부화장
(hatchery)

extractor
추출장
(chapter extracts)

spawning pool
산란못
(scattering can not/what does acid.  Honestly...I dunno what word this even comes from)

creep tumor
점막종양
(mucosal tumors)

spine cralwer
가시촉수
(thorn tentacle)

spore cralwer
포자촉수
(spores tentacle)

evolution chamber
진화장
(chapter evolution.  Although...장.  Maybe I should be using one of the alternate translations like "intestine" instead of chapter...).

lair
번식지
(breeding)

hive
군락
(communities)

spire
둥지탑
(nest top)

mutalisk
뮤탈리스크
(mutalisks)

infestor
감염충
(infestor.  Splitting up the words I get infection insect)

corruptor
타락귀
(corruptor)

hydralisk
히드라리스크
(hydralisk)

hydralisk den
히드라이스크 굴
(굴 means lair, den, burrow, tunnel...)

roach warren
바퀴 소굴
(소굴 is nest)

baneling nest
맹독충 둥지
(apparently 둥지 is also nest)

swarm host
군단 숙주
(corps host)

overlord
대군주
(overlord)

overseer
감지군주
(detection monarch)

egg
저그 고치
(zerg cocoon)

infestation pit
감염 구덩이
(infection pit)

greater spire
거대 둥지탑
(giant nest top)

ultralisk
울트라리스크
(ultralisk)

brood lord
무리 군주
(swarm monarch)

ultralisk cavern
울트라리스크 동굴
(ultralisk cave)



applicability of any of this outside of SC2?  Well...do you want to talk about caves, nests, habitats, and holes?

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4381
    • View Profile
Re: Language learning scratch topic
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2014, 12:13:29 AM »
Ok, breaking down full sentences that I have translated for me...

이거 진짜 다야몬드야

(This is a real diamond)

다야몬드 is diamond spelled out.  Google translate doesn't seem to recognize it though.

이거 means this

I assume 야 is something to do with conjugation.  When I replace 다야몬드 with 남자, removing the 야 gives me "this is a real man" in google translate, and adding it back in gives "this is really a man".  Just putting 남자야  & 남자 gives "a man" and "man".

Hm...ok, so 이다 seems to be the verb "be".  Doesn't help me much.  I feel like 야  has to be the verb in this situation; verbs are generally at the end of the sentence.  I don't see a verb in the sentence otherwise; "this real diamond is" would make sense to me.


next sentence

얘내들 진짜 예요

"these guys are real"

ok, fuck google translate.  Or maybe I'm translating slang, I don't know.  얘내들 has no translation.  예요 on its own is translating to "I'm"; the best I can garner is that it's some sort of possessive tense.

Actually, wait, no, I'm full of it, that's just the polite sentence ending

진짜
진짜예요 (polite)
진짜입나다 (honourific)



next sentence

저 여자 진짜 예쁘다.

"that girl is really pretty"

저 can mean that.  저 여자 translates to "she" according to google translate.  But this sentence seems straightforward; the words seem to be straight up "that woman really pretty"


next sentence

저 남자 진짜 귀엽다

"that guy is really cute"

Umm..yep, basically the same sentence with the same verb conjugation, subbing out one word.


Hmm...this would be a lot easier if I found a good tutorial on korean grammar first....

Cotigo

  • Jerkface
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4176
  • Yoo-hoo, Mr. Tentacle Guy...
    • View Profile
Re: Language learning scratch topic
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 08:23:11 AM »
OK, I feel like I have enough experience in drilling myself in a difficult-as-shit language over the past couple of years to give you some advice.

You're going about it all wrong. You may decipher Korean grammar this way, but you're never actually going to learn the language going about it like this. First, focus on listening as much as possible. Don't even actively try to understand what you're listening to, just immerse yourself in Korean. Set aside 1 hour minimum a day where you're going to listen to only Korean. No English or French (reading or listening) whatsoever.  It may feel like you're wasting time, but passive listening will actually gradually increase your comprehension, though it is a slow process. Fortunately for you this just means you need to seek out Korean-casted SC matches instead of English-casted ones.  First your ability to pick out sounds will gradually increase, and one day you'll go "oh shit I'm not grasping for sounds anymore". Then one day you'll go "holy shit I understood that word awesome." Then, "holy shit I understood that sentence, goddamn."

You will of course need to do active study on top of this, but the passive listening is frankly more important at first. If you have only enough time in the day to listen for an hour or study grammar for an hour, your choice is listening, or not learning anything that will stick.

So, you started listening to a lot of Korean and find yourself with enough time to study on top of your listening (or while you're listening). I don't know about the quality of any of these sites, but searching google for "learn korean" came up with a number of them. Unfortunately Rosetta stone sucks for East Asian Languages, and Duolingo doesn't have a Korean program, but there are some resources out there. If you feel more comfortable with a textbook, I'm sure there are korean textbooks out there you can buy for your study.

Now, whatever you're using as your primary study guide, get this:

http://www.ankisrs.com

For studying, get this program and start inputting sentences from your study guides and things your friends have translated for you, etc, and start doing spaced repetition flashcard reps. Pick one focus per flashcard (phonetic reading, meaning of a word, meaning of a whole sentence, change in formality... etc. I don't know Korean so I'm kinda guessing at the specifics. This is where a Korean textbook will come in handy). If you have audio files handy you can also put them into the flashcard system. That's going to get you way farther in learning a language than sitting around overanalyzing individual sentences your friends translated ever will.

Think about it like learning how to macro vs. the metagame analysis you did for individual SC2 units a couple years back. Drilling macro and learning to do it without thinking about it too hard and without missing things like pylons or key buildings (which is what spaced repetition flashcards, frequent listening/reading and eventually frequent speaking/writing are equivalent to), is going to get a bronze player (as far as Korean goes, this is you) much, much farther than decoding individual sentences / unit names and then never revisiting them or trying to put them into a larger context (metagame analysis in this metaphor). The only place this metaphor breaks down is that passively watching SC2 games won't improve your play at all, but that's why it's a metaphor.

Good luck with the Korean. Compared to Japanese, it sounds like French when compared to English. Also Reavers.

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4381
    • View Profile
Re: Language learning scratch topic
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2014, 07:52:34 AM »
Yeah, I do a decent amount of passive listening just in general (I just...don't really write about it because it's passive; what did I learn?  I dunno), and I certainly recognize all the sounds by this point (although maybe I won't be able to pick out particularly close sounds) and some number of words at this point.  Korean sounds are like...there's one vowel that's not in english, and a few consonants that are half-way between english consonants; not really that bad.  (And words are words).  Flash cards are a good idea; I haven't been doing those.

I just am finding I'm never understanding full sentences, and I'm not sure how to construct full sentences of my own.  There's a youtube series I like that did a pretty good job of introducing and repeating words, which is where I've learned a lot of the words I know, but I feel like I must know mostly nouns now or something, because I'll pick out like one word from each sentence.

Except in Starcraft casts, I don't understand shit in those.  (According to Mike, Starcraft casts are super heavy on slang).

Cotigo

  • Jerkface
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4176
  • Yoo-hoo, Mr. Tentacle Guy...
    • View Profile
Re: Language learning scratch topic
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2014, 03:36:02 PM »
Studying with an actual study guide in conjunction with the space repetition flash card program I recommended will help a lot with the not understanding full sentences/not being able to construct full sentences deal.

I also have asked someone who has studied Korean for a couple months, and she recommended looking into the Pimsleur Korean course. Again, no firsthand experience with it myself, but yeah.

metroid composite

  • m_ACac
  • Administrator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4381
    • View Profile
Re: Language learning scratch topic
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2014, 04:09:54 PM »
I haven't been active learning for a while, thanks to crunch and vacations, but I came across a couple of links recently that I'm going to bookmark for myself here.

This series seems to give more sentence structure, which is about at the level where I'm struggling now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfOSDJx97v4&list=PLbFrQnW0BNMURpRox1K0buigypjtCvAlE

And...some korean SC2 slang:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/93316-the-korean-terminology-thread