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Author Topic: RPGDL 2013 S3, W1: [00:25] <RandomKesaranPasaran> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOLILY  (Read 2505 times)

Cmdr_King

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Lenus (Legend of Dragoon) vs Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Melfice (Grandia II) vs Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time)
Dr. Nusukan (SaGa Frontier) vs Luca Blight (Suikoden II)
Orgulla (Xenosaga: Jenseits von Gut und Bose) vs Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)

Heavy

Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Sephiran (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)
Asellus (SaGa Frontier) vs Ray (Fire Emblem: The Sealed Sword)
Lundgren (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King)
Justin (Gradia) vs Alakazam (Pokémon)

Middle

Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Lorelai (Suikoden Series)
Lich (Final Fantasy) vs Dalton (Chrono Trigger)
Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Teddie (Persona 4)
Albel Nox (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Mia (Golden Sun)

Light

Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Mojo (Chrono Cross)
Serph (Digital Devil Saga) vs Big Joe (Xenogears)
Raijin (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Irvine Kinneas (Final Fantasy VIII)
Kiros Seagill (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Liliane Valendorf (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
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SnowFire

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Melfice (Grandia II) vs Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time)
Melfice's "great evade" schtick seems like it'd spoil ARPG bosses.

Heavy

Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Sephiran (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)
I definitely don't let Fogel get in all 3 hits at above-average speed even if we go with the one-DL-round-is-one-battle OB interp (which I'm not a huge fan of).  And something like 1-battle is 2 DL rounds, while giving Fogel a big boost in damage, still doesn't let him OHKO and definitely lets Sephy win.  So Sephy 2HKOs and has a counter go off.
Lundgren (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King)
General vs. magic.  I give Lundgren Throne credit but doubt it's enough to tip this, he's not getting counterattacks off.
Justin (Gradia) vs Alakazam (Pokémon)
Unless Alakazam can win on turn 1?

Middle

Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Lorelai (Suikoden Series)
Sara not really a Middle to me, she basically never loses against Middle slugfesters that "spoil" her even if she rolls to decent healing.  Lorelai gets like 4 turns off to dump 2 PCHP of Lightning hurt into her, which becomes 3 PCHP thanks to Sara's magic weakness, and...  Sara has like 5-6 PCHP according to the stat topic.  Even knocking that down to 4 PCHP, that's still enough ehre.
Lich (Final Fantasy) vs Dalton (Chrono Trigger)
Dalton.
Albel Nox (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Mia (Golden Sun)
All your MPs.

Light

Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Mojo (Chrono Cross)
I assume Mao?  I'll let the CC knowledgable chime in, never used Mojo.
Raijin (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Irvine Kinneas (Final Fantasy VIII)
They both win, obviously.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 07:07:10 AM by SnowFire »

superaielman

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Lenus (Legend of Dragoon) vs Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)- Go away Lenus.
Melfice (Grandia II) vs Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time)- Evasion's more than enough here.
Dr. Nusukan (SaGa Frontier) vs Luca Blight (Suikoden II)- Don't allow tower.
Orgulla (Xenosaga: Jenseits von Gut und Bose) vs Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)- No idea.

Heavy

Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Sephiran (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)- Blinding purification gives Fogel serious fits. I don't see Fogel OHKOing, he has to double in order to win. Doubling feels unlikely to me offhand.
Lundgren (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King)- Doubles.
Justin (Gradia) vs Alakazam (Pokémon)- Go first, 2HKO. Justin's tanky but not that tanky.

Middle

Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Lorelai (Suikoden Series)- Puka in averages, Sara is not damaging. Lorelai's biggest issue is running out of damaging charges actually... mm.
Lich (Final Fantasy) vs Dalton (Chrono Trigger)- Dalton.
Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Teddie (Persona 4)-Infinite resources. I'm also pretty sure he can hit a weakness on Teddie!
Albel Nox (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Mia (Golden Sun)- Slaughter. Mia is a bad Middle.

Light

Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Mojo (Chrono Cross)
Serph (Digital Devil Saga) vs Big Joe (Xenogears)
Raijin (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Irvine Kinneas (Final Fantasy VIII)[/b]- Aura, smash.
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Lenus (Legend of Dragoon) vs Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) - Uh. Wow, this is a very good match. I'll get back to you later.
Melfice (Grandia II) vs Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) - Evade.
Dr. Nusakan (SaGa Frontier) vs Luca Blight (Suikoden II) - Hm. Tower doesn't OHKO Luca. Nusakan could attempt to try a stallfest with Shield and free attack openings in-between the slow turns. The healing being infinite means he can do this -forever-, and only Luca's first swing is faster than Nusakan besides Shield (to boot, Luca -barely- 6HKOs Nusakan). So, pelt pelt pelt until in range of a Tower kill, maybe hoping for dodges, then smite. Power Grab won't work, though: the damage halving spoils that idea even before the issue of it denting slowly into Tower's damage.
Orgulla (Xenosaga: Jenseits von Gut und Bose) vs Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium) - EDIT: I keep underrating XS2 boss durability, will have to figure out precisely where I see Orgulla's.

Asellus (SaGa Frontier) vs Ray (Fire Emblem: The Sealed Sword) - Slight problem in tow: Asellus needs to trigger a Ray counter to Mystic Change and she misses a OHKO even -under- that. Oh, and Ray 2HKOs her if she doesn't. Glass Shield also doesn't work, draining damage bypasses it entirely. She could kill Ray on her second turn -if- she doubles with Lifesprinkler post-Mystic, since it outdamages his healing... but she definitely can't do it without Mystic and none of her other options DO outheal him. Even the ID needs Mystic Change to even be an option. Jesus christ, talk about spoiling.
Lundgren (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) - Boss mage.
Justin (Grandia) vs Alakazam (Pokémon) - No damage average for Grandia I'm looking at lets Justin OHKO Alakazam. He uh kinda needs it.

Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Lorelai (Suikoden Series) - I don't think there's any kind of scaling that lets Lorelai take this. Take Puka into the averages, sure, but also factor in how he effectively lowers the defense average. And Lorelai's pdur pretty much sucks, her HP is terrible and her defense ain't that great either. She probably can't even 3HKO Sarah (only two L2s and two of those are like 1.4x PC HP at best).
Lich (Final Fantasy) vs Dalton (Chrono Trigger) - Dear -god-.
Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Teddie (Persona 4) - Goes first and hits weakness. This is horrifying.

Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Mojo (Chrono Cross) - SERIOUSLY?
Serph (Digital Devil Saga) vs Big Joe (Xenogears) - Oh WOW.
Raijin (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Irvine Kinneas (Final Fantasy VIII) - :irvine:
Kiros Seagull (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Liliane Valendorf (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) - I suspect she actually makes use of SLOW here, because Kiros damage is so bad (he like 4HKOs Lily). She doesn't fear a limit too much either, plenty of damage control.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 08:51:02 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Lenus (Legend of Dragoon) vs Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars): Yaridovich is faster and 3HKOs with physicals (I take them at 2/3 potential damage, YMMV... if anything there's an argument for that to be higher against bosses, lower against people with evade). Lenus still outputs damage like crazy (counter then normal turn) and can do nearly 3PCHP in this fight, but Yaridovich magic durability is kinda crazy (1.5PC or so, then cuts magic by nearly two thirds).
Melfice (Grandia II) vs Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time): Sure. Luther will get at most one Perfect Symmetry off, and I think he survives that. edit: But if his parts don't have evade, I feel like I shouldn't give him much credit at evading AoE attacks.
Dr. Nusukan (SaGa Frontier) vs Luca Blight (Suikoden II): Bah, never figured out how I felt about Nusakan. Abstain, since it definitely matters here... with Shield, he can turtle due to relying on evasion and infinite healing (and mocking fire). Without he gets heal-locked.
Orgulla (Xenosaga: Jenseits von Gut und Bose) vs Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium): Orgulla can probably two-shot PD (10.4x PC damage, yeouch). This needs three setup turns in total, so PD gets four turns. Orgulla can tank four turns of near-PCHP damage well enough, I think, especially when the opening two hits hit her high MDef. Heck, she may tank 5, or get in a doubleturn at some point, either of which would make this an easier win.

Heavy

Asellus (SaGa Frontier) vs Ray (Fire Emblem: The Sealed Sword): Crazy. But I think Snow's right. This is some high-grade spoiling, Asellus barely misses the OHKO and can't do anything to get herself two useful turns.
Lundgren (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King): Surely.
Justin (Gradia) vs Alakazam (Pokémon): If he survives a hit, he takes this.

Middle

Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Lorelai (Suikoden Series): Easy.
Lich (Final Fantasy) vs Dalton (Chrono Trigger): I'm going to be contrary here and say Lich gets hit by gravity, gravity is generally a hard immunity to get (impossible for CT PCs!) and Lich has all sorts of status holes. Still think Lich 2HKOs the frail Dalton, though, so Dalton gets off one counter and one of his own turns. This lets him win... unless one of the Iron Orbs misses. So do I subject Iron Orb to Lich's status resistance? ... yeah, probably. Dalton only just misses needing one, too bad for him. edit: Nah, changed my mind, the idea of unresistable gravity attacks running into status resistance doesn't really make much sense to me, I can't ever see myself saying Dalton's Iron Orb misses against PS4 psy equips or FE res. So Dalton wins.

Light

Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Mojo (Chrono Cross): Mojo is faster and barely 3HKOs average (surprising). Mao also 3HKOs. Mao is basically average durability... good HP, bad Def. Huh, feels wrong, but the slight speed gap wins this. edit: On the other hand, the more I think about it the more CC speed hype is a suspect thing, and Mojo could very easily fail to 3HKO, since accuracy makes his damage uneven.
Serph (Digital Devil Saga) vs Big Joe (Xenogears): No.
Raijin (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Irvine Kinneas (Final Fantasy VIII): Don't think my Raijin respect is so low as to lose him this.
Kiros Seagill (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Liliane Valendorf (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy): Because if she loses to Kiros we damn well need to boot Mana Khemia 2 right now.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 07:20:40 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Random Consonant

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Godlike

Lenus (Legend of Dragoon) vs Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) - sure.
Dr. Nusukan (SaGa Frontier) vs Luca Blight (Suikoden II)

Heavy

Asellus (SaGa Frontier) vs Ray (Fire Emblem: The Sealed Sword) - Asellus needing a turn is just too costly here.
Justin (Gradia) vs Alakazam (Pokémon) - sure.

Middle

Lich (Final Fantasy) vs Dalton (Chrono Trigger) - While I am symapthetic to the status hole argument, I am not particularly inclined to see gravity as targetting a hole Lich actually has.

Light

Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Mojo (Chrono Cross) - ugh seriously?  *seriously*?  Edit: sure, accuracy concerns.
Raijin (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Irvine Kinneas (Final Fantasy VIII) - Surely.
Kiros Seagill (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Liliane Valendorf (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) - SURELY.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 07:25:24 AM by Random Consonant »

Dark Holy Elf

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Lich's status holes are to Sleep 2/Slow 2 (which nothing immunes), Earth (Quake and Crack), and Time (Warp and Stop). Personally if I threw gravity into an existing FF1 category I'd probably throw it in Time, but that's a flavour argument so YMMV. There's not really much in-game evidence to go on here.

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Maybe.

Random Consonant

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Yeah I was basically filing it under Death, though I agree that seeing it as targetting Time is reasonable.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 05:30:36 PM by Random Consonant »

VySaika

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Lenus (Legend of Dragoon) vs Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Melfice (Grandia II) vs Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time)- Just don't respect Melfice's evade that much. It did not help him at all in game to the point where I didn't know it was a thing he was supposed to have until hearing about it here. Inclined to say some of Luther's shit hits him just fine.
Dr. Nusukan (SaGa Frontier) vs Luca Blight (Suikoden II) - Need to refresh myself on what Nusaken has in the DL. EDIT - Yeah, I give him the arcane gift. So...shield, poke/heal until in range for a tower kill does the job just fine. Luca's lack of options costs him here.
Orgulla (Xenosaga: Jenseits von Gut und Bose) vs Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)

Heavy

Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Sephiran (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) - Sephiran brings the right damage type(magic), the right element(holy) and has counters. And doesn't get instantly splattered. Not often you see Fogel straight outslugged, but it can happen.
Asellus (SaGa Frontier) vs Ray (Fire Emblem: The Sealed Sword) - Does she get the OHKO if you give her Asura? EDIT: It seems she misses it. Not bad at all, Ray.
Lundgren (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King) - One sided.
Justin (Gradia) vs Alakazam (Pokémon)

Middle

Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Lorelai (Suikoden Series) -I'm fine with this either way, I just don't see Lorelai's damage as all that great.
Lich (Final Fantasy) vs Dalton (Chrono Trigger) - Me and death counters.
Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Teddie (Persona 4)
Albel Nox (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Mia (Golden Sun) - He rips her Mp apart, then rips her Hp apart.

Light

Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Mojo (Chrono Cross) - Mojo wins this off speed? Hahahahahaha! I am amused.
Serph (Digital Devil Saga) vs Big Joe (Xenogears) - Sloppy joes are for dinner.
Raijin (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Irvine Kinneas (Final Fantasy VIII) - Reasonably high Raijin respect as a light slugger boss. Irvine...not so much.
Kiros Seagill (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Liliane Valendorf (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy) - She has the damage control for this, no problem. Slow helps, too.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 12:40:30 AM by Gatewalker »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Gate: By the numbers I have Asellus would still just miss the OHKO with GoldenLion + Asura, since that would raise her from 83 Str to 90, and it looks like she needs 99 (MysticChange) or very close to it.


Regarding Justin vs. Alakazam, some elaboration I think is necessary: Justin actually does OHKO by a fraction of a percentage (55.7% to Alakazam's 0.55 pdur). But he still doesn't win, because Alakazam will use Reflect first turn (halves physicals), and then enjoy the fact that the only move that still 2HKOs is OPB for Justin. If Justin comes in with the Bonesplitter Axe for ID, he's down 15 attack, so can't OHKO any more, and gets 2HKOed first (even with the Devil Robe).

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

VySaika

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Re: RPGDL 2013 S3, W1: [00:25] <RandomKesaranPasaran> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOLILY
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2013, 07:07:04 PM »
That does it then, Ray manages to take a win off Asellus. Impressive.
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SnowFire

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Re: RPGDL 2013 S3, W1: [00:25] <RandomKesaranPasaran> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOLILY
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2013, 03:00:04 AM »
Elf: Interesting.  Can Grandia 1 characters change weapons in the middle of battle?  I forget.  Inclined to kneejerk "no" though.  (And of course even if they can, there are arguments to disallow it anyway.)  If allowed, Justin can still sneak the win though.  I forgot about Reflect for the record, that's why I assumed that Justin's OHKO was fairly unstoppable (which I kneejerked as a bit more solid than Elf's figures). 

As for Sara vs. Lorelai...  think Jo'ou already covered it, but to add some math, a BoF1 PC average that uses 999 HP Puka and ignores Mogu (hey, he's strictly an improvement to have in your backline at all, he shouldn't make the boss look better) ends up with an endgame average of 450 HP.  Since Sara isn't quite endgame, if we assume it's something like 420, Sara now barely 4HKOs average, which should still 3HKO Lorelai.  Even if Lorelai has a 4:3, she isn't 4HKOing back, she isn't Zerase.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2013 S3, W1: [00:25] <RandomKesaranPasaran> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOLILY
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2013, 03:31:18 AM »
I know G3 doesn't allow weapon switching, don't remember the rules for G1 though. (I generally don't allow weapon switching anyway.)

I'll also note that Puka has 920 HP at endgame (so possibly a bit lower at Sara?), not 999, and that a defence average where Puka counts for 1/4 of it will see Sara's damage as far higher than what the stat topic suggests (since Puka takes uh 270 or so). In general Sara, who is physical, is far less hurt by take-fusions-in-average views than the other bosses who are mages.

I also have serious, serious reservations about such a proposal (and its implications, aw yeah Ryu of the barely half PCHP) but if you're going to do it, at least do it right!

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: RPGDL 2013 S3, W1: [00:25] <RandomKesaranPasaran> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOLILY
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2013, 04:47:57 AM »
Godlike

Lenus (Legend of Dragoon) vs Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Melfice (Grandia II) vs Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time)- I don't think Melfice can evade if his parts are getting hit and Luther's good stuff is AoE. So Melfice himself gets walloped.
Dr. Nusukan (SaGa Frontier) vs Luca Blight (Suikoden II)- Since the spell that lets him win is questionable...
Orgulla (Xenosaga: Jenseits von Gut und Bose) vs Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)- Sure, running with this/yay Orgulla and such. While I don't have as high a level of Orgulla damage respect, I probably am near the bottom of PD HP respect.

Heavy

Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Sephiran (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)- Just of note, the average AS when facing Sephiran is 29?! Is that...half shifted Laguz?
Lundgren (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King)
Justin (Gradia) vs Alakazam (Pokémon)

Middle

Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Lorelai (Suikoden Series)- Less sure about this than others, because Sara has a great argument to cut her HP in almost half (HP to 1 with an item that only works on one other enemy in the game at all)
Lich (Final Fantasy) vs Dalton (Chrono Trigger)- abstain
Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Teddie (Persona 4)
Albel Nox (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Mia (Golden Sun)

Light

Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Mojo (Chrono Cross)- Mojo 3HKOs average? I don't think that's correct, because he does 1221 to a kill point of either 1338 (With Elements) or 1248 (Without Elements). Now, he still 3HKOs Mao with the second average, but doesn't with the first. Worth noting for those who vote with elements.
Serph (Digital Devil Saga) vs Big Joe (Xenogears)
Raijin (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Irvine Kinneas (Final Fantasy VIII)
Kiros Seagill (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Liliane Valendorf (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2013 S3, W1: [00:25] <RandomKesaranPasaran> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOLILY
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2013, 05:44:29 AM »
Regarding Mojo, I was using the final average, which includes recharge times He does 1026 to a kill point of either 1008 or 1022, there. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the higher average assume you use a tech each turn (which involves a big recharge time)? Not too inclined to use that, then. I'd love to be wrong since Mojo was f'ing useless and Mao was a decent PC, but I don't think I am.

I think Melfice's evade applies to his parts too? If not then this gets very weird, very fast for me.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: RPGDL 2013 S3, W1: [00:25] <RandomKesaranPasaran> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOLILY
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2013, 06:05:18 AM »
Oh duh, yes, Mojo also 3HKOs if you use recharge times either way (theoretically the recharges times are cancelled out by having other PCs act, which is why I don't really consider them DLwise).

I thought it was just himself for Melfice evade (I could be wrong there. That evade is such nothingness in game but I'm very disinclined to give it respect against non-basic physicals anyways, but I thought at least the regenarator didn't have it).
...into the nightfall.

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Re: RPGDL 2013 S3, W1: [00:25] <RandomKesaranPasaran> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOLILY
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2013, 09:09:34 PM »
Godlike
Melfice (Grandia II) vs Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time)
Orgulla (Xenosaga: Jenseits von Gut und Bose) vs Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millennium)

Heavy
Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Sephiran (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)
Lundgren (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King)
Justin (Grandia) vs Alakazam (Pokémon)

Middle
Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Lorelai (Suikoden Series)
Lich (Final Fantasy) vs Dalton (Chrono Trigger)
Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Teddie (Persona 4)

Light
Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Mojo (Chrono Cross)
Raijin (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Irvine Kinneas (Final Fantasy VIII)

Dhyerwolf

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Re: RPGDL 2013 S3, W1: [00:25] <RandomKesaranPasaran> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOLILY
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2013, 07:35:52 PM »
Just double checked, but neither of Melfice's parts have evade, and you can mess with his by just hitting them first. So basically the evade should be next to nothing here (and in Godlike should really should kind of begin and end at beating like Lenneth/Brahms or something).
...into the nightfall.

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Re: RPGDL 2013 S3, W1: [00:25] <RandomKesaranPasaran> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOLILY
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2013, 09:27:31 PM »
And thinking on it, it matters even less for any strong attack Luther has. Even if you don't normally see strong SO 3 attacks>evasion, they clearly beat stances. And Melfice's evade is just a "ready" stance, which is basically the dead equivalent of 100 Fury.
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2013 S3, W1: [00:25] <RandomKesaranPasaran> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOLILY
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2013, 09:46:38 PM »
I don't think I agree with the latter point. Melfice's evade is like all Grandia evade IIRC... it just doesn't work when you're charging or otherwise doing something else. I wouldn't see that as a stance which for me would have to be something you activate like Ramsus or Dalton. Of course I'm always uninclined to respect evade-ignoring hype from ARPGs when you can evade things just by walking out of the way of them.

That said I think the flavour of "AoE attack" beating "some parts have no evade, and once they're hit you can hit the main body" is too strong for me to ignore. I'm always up for rewarding AoE attacks.


Back to Chrono Cross, if you assume the PC has "phantom allies" so their recharge times don't matter, doesn't that make the stamina stat completely useless? I'm rather uninclined to take this view both for that reason and because recharge time certainly mattered as soon as you were down even one PC. (Plus the DL largely being a "how well do you solo things" test... recharge time isn't that big a deal in CC, but then Raja needing to equip a staff isn't something that happens in-game in PS4 either.)

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Nephrite

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Re: RPGDL 2013 S3, W1: [00:25] <RandomKesaranPasaran> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOLILY
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2013, 11:10:17 PM »
Godlike

Lenus (Legend of Dragoon) vs Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Melfice (Grandia II) vs Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time)
Dr. Nusukan (SaGa Frontier) vs Luca Blight (Suikoden II)
Orgulla (Xenosaga: Jenseits von Gut und Bose) vs Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)

Heavy

Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Sephiran (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)
Asellus (SaGa Frontier) vs Ray (Fire Emblem: The Sealed Sword)
Lundgren (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King)
Justin (Gradia) vs Alakazam (Pokémon)

Middle

Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Lorelai (Suikoden Series) - While I don't make Sara's HP 1 because of the D. Heart, I do feel that should be factored in somehow, so she's a lot worse to me.
Lich (Final Fantasy) vs Dalton (Chrono Trigger)
Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Teddie (Persona 4)
Albel Nox (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Mia (Golden Sun)

Light

Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Mojo (Chrono Cross)
Serph (Digital Devil Saga) vs Big Joe (Xenogears)
Raijin (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Irvine Kinneas (Final Fantasy VIII)
Kiros Seagill (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Liliane Valendorf (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 11:14:34 PM by Nephrite »

Twilkitri

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Re: RPGDL 2013 S3, W1: [00:25] <RandomKesaranPasaran> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOLILY
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2013, 11:57:28 PM »
Godlike

Heavy

Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Sephiran (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)
Asellus (SaGa Frontier) vs Ray (Fire Emblem: The Sealed Sword)
Lundgren (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King)
Justin (Gradia) vs Alakazam (Pokémon)

Middle

Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Lorelai (Suikoden Series)
Lich (Final Fantasy) vs Dalton (Chrono Trigger)
Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Teddie (Persona 4)
Albel Nox (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Mia (Golden Sun)

Light

Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Mojo (Chrono Cross)
Serph (Digital Devil Saga) vs Big Joe (Xenogears)
Raijin (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Irvine Kinneas (Final Fantasy VIII)
Kiros Seagill (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Liliane Valendorf (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: RPGDL 2013 S3, W1: [00:25] <RandomKesaranPasaran> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOLILY
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2013, 02:50:44 AM »
Godlike

Lenus (Legend of Dragoon) vs Yaridovich (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Melfice (Grandia II) vs Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time)
Dr. Nusukan (SaGa Frontier) vs Luca Blight (Suikoden II)
Orgulla (Xenosaga: Jenseits von Gut und Bose) vs Profound Darkness (Phantasy Star IV: End of the Millenium)

Heavy

Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Sephiran (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)
Asellus (SaGa Frontier) vs Ray (Fire Emblem: The Sealed Sword)
Lundgren (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Marcello (Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King)
Justin (Gradia) vs Alakazam (Pokémon)

Middle

Sara (Breath of Fire) vs Lorelai (Suikoden Series)
Lich (Final Fantasy) vs Dalton (Chrono Trigger)
Hope Estheim (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Teddie (Persona 4)
Albel Nox (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Mia (Golden Sun)


Light

Mao (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Mojo (Chrono Cross)

Serph (Digital Devil Saga) vs Big Joe (Xenogears)
Raijin (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Irvine Kinneas (Final Fantasy VIII)
Kiros Seagill (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Liliane Valendorf (Mana Khemia 2: Fall of Alchemy)
When humanity stands strong and people reach out for each other...
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: RPGDL 2013 S3, W1: [00:25] <RandomKesaranPasaran> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOLILY
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2013, 10:22:29 PM »
Back to Chrono Cross, if you assume the PC has "phantom allies" so their recharge times don't matter, doesn't that make the stamina stat completely useless? I'm rather uninclined to take this view both for that reason and because recharge time certainly mattered as soon as you were down even one PC. (Plus the DL largely being a "how well do you solo things" test... recharge time isn't that big a deal in CC, but then Raja needing to equip a staff isn't something that happens in-game in PS4 either.)

I'd probably prorate the Stamina stat dlwise in some way (since I guess it still matters for getting more turns in comparison to an enemy. I'd have to play around with CC again because there are just some things I don't remember that may have some influence (like I think using a tech cost you 7 stamina, but only regains 1 for the other PCs).

Most of CC is going in with 3 PCs, so I don't mind working off that general DL mindset. Helps reflect much of the in-game effect better.
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2013 S3, W1: [00:25] <RandomKesaranPasaran> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOLILY
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2013, 10:36:22 PM »
I think you're right about that, tech use only advances one clocktick but definitely consumes 7 stamina.

It's true that as long as you have 10 stamina, and you are using three PCs, you'll always regain enough stamina by your next turn, even if everyone is spamming techs. (And storebought equipment gets everyone to 10 IIRC.) You use up 13 stamina, your allies spend 14 clockticks on their turns. I'm not really sure what I think about this. There's really no question that stamina regen is a shitty stat in-game so maybe I've been wrong to give it as much weight as I have, in the past.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.