Proving Grounds, Round 2 Week 1 Light- Pink armor and dark druids.

[superaielman]

Advancing onto round two. Same rules as the last round, just with repeating fighters.

Nergal (FE7) vs Bowman (SO2)
Nergal vs Paws (CSTW)
Nergal vs Teddie (Pers4)
Nergal vs Bart (XG)
Nergal vs Laharl (Dis)
Nergal vs Roxis (MK1)
Nergal vs Rinoa (FF8)
Nergal vs Shana (LoD)
Nergal vs Janus (WA3)
Nergal vs Tita (Trails)
Nergal vs Butterfree (PKMN)
Nergal vs Kain (FF4)

Ragnar (DQ4) vs Bowman (SO2)
Ragnar vs Paws (CSTW)
Ragnar vs Teddie (Pers4)
Ragnar vs Bart (XG)
Ragnar vs Laharl (Dis)
Ragnar vs Roxis (MK1)
Ragnar vs Rinoa (FF8)
Ragnar vs Shana (LoD)
Ragnar vs Janus (WA3)
Ragnar vs Tita (Trails)
Ragnar vs Butterfree (PKMN)
Ragnar vs Kain (FF4)

Miriel (FE13) vs Bowman (SO2)
Miriel vs Paws (CSTW)
Miriel vs Teddie (Pers4)
Miriel vs Bart (XG)
Miriel vs Laharl (Dis)
Miriel vs Roxis (MK1)
Miriel vs Rinoa (FF8)
Miriel vs Shana (LoD)
Miriel vs Janus (WA3)
Miriel vs Tita (Trails)
Miriel vs Butterfree (PKMN)
Miriel vs Kain (FF4)

[superaielman]

Nergal (FE7) vs Bowman (SO2)- Dark resist. Nergal is sad.
Nergal vs Teddie (Pers4)- Undamaging healer vs Nergal. This is not going to end well.
Nergal vs Bart (XG)- It's Bart.
Nergal vs Laharl (Dis)- Mm, kneejerk? May be overselling Laharl's offense.
Nergal vs Roxis (MK1)- Aroooo!
Nergal vs Rinoa (FF8)- Rinoa needs a 2HKO here, she doesn't get it from me.
Nergal vs Shana (LoD)- Oh good grief. Dark elemental helps offset Shana's MDef and Shana is pretty helpless on turn one.
Nergal vs Janus (WA3)- Surely.
Nergal vs Butterfree (PKMN)- Good work Nergal, you can beat up a poor butterfly. I hope you feel powerful.
Nergal vs Kain (FF4)- Depends on if I see Jump doubling/KOing Nergal. With weakness factored in it seems almost plauseable.

Ragnar (DQ4) vs Bowman (SO2)- Bowman is notably more damaging and is more durable than Roan. Fight won't go on long enough for sleep to matter, Bowman may also avoid being 3HKOed. Hell, secret medicine probably makes sure Bowman isn't 3HKOed.
Ragnar vs Teddie (Pers4)- Sword of Lethargy claims another victim. Teddie's best damage is running smack up against Ragnar durability (And is elementally resisted to boot). It's possible he can buff and heal his way out of trouble, but he is giving Ragnar a lot of turns in which to hurt him.
Ragnar vs Bart (XG)- Evasion.
Ragnar vs Laharl (Dis)- Yeah. No.
Ragnar vs Roxis (MK1)- Ragnar should 2HKO here .What the hell Roxis.
Ragnar vs Rinoa (FF8)- This depends on the percentages of Rinoa's limit. She needs a wishing star or invincible moon to win this fight.
Ragnar vs Shana (LoD)- Strong kneejerk towards Shana being bad.
Ragnar vs Janus (WA3)- See above but with strong kneejerk towards non plot Janus forms being *really, really* bad.
Ragnar vs Butterfree (PKMN)- Sleep!
Ragnar vs Kain (FF4)-Ragnar is slow enough to where Kain is going to get some extra damage in from doubleturns-jumping, but it doesn't matter.

Nergal: 6-3
Ragnar: 6-3

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Nergal (FE7) vs Bowman Jean (SO2) - One-rounds.
Nergal vs Paws (CSTW) - Nuke possibly OHKOs before Unstable Form, DEFINITELY does after it. And Nergal doesn't OHKO back.
Nergal vs Teddie (Pers4) - Teddie can take this if you apply his Dark resistance to damage, but no Dark-elemental attack in P4 is anything but ID or gravity.
Nergal vs Bartholomew Fatima (XG) - THE MAGIC DAMAGE HALVING WHIP SAVES THE DAY. Seriously, this lets Bart survive a counter+turn and he still 3HKOs back this way. Welp.
Nergal vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (MK1) - GT damage Chrona Drive to avoid counters, finish it up.
Nergal vs Rinoa Heartilly (FF8) - Rinoa just one-rounds, she nearly 2HKOs average as is. Even if she didn't, Nergal has no damage control and can't OHKO.
Nergal vs Shana (LoD) - Jesus, that dark weakness.
Nergal vs Janus Cascade (WA3) - Eeeeerr Janus probably doesn't live through two Ereshkigals and he doesn't one-round either.
Nergal vs Butterfree (PKMN) - Congratulations.
Nergal vs Kain Highwind (FF4) - I just see Kain's damage part of Jump applying, instead of him getting extra turns to stall (I mean, it's not like you can pick and choose on FE doubles). Sooooo.

5-5. Well, this was a thing. Nergal's issues and perks are already very comprehensive by this point.

Ragnar Mc Ryan(DQ4) vs Bowman Jean (SO2) - I'll bite. Ragnar is just so slow.
Ragnar Mc Ryan vs Paws (CSTW) - Backstab gets the +50% bonus against Ragnar and the healing, shoddy as it may be, keeps Ragnar further at bay. His only shot lies in the Sword of Lethargy, but Paws gets way too many turns.
Ragnar Mc Ryan vs Teddie (Pers4) - Eh sure. Also, it just hit me that Ragnar -actually 2HKOs- Teddie. Gross.
Ragnar Mc Ryan vs Bartholomew Fatima (XG) - Bart's evade game ruins Ragny.
Ragnar Mc Ryan vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (MK1) - Roxis doesn't get 2HKOed by average physicals and Ragnar's below average. Swordedge probably doesn't tilt this either, goddamn Ragnar speed.
Ragnar Mc Ryan vs Rinoa Heartilly (FF8) - Rinoa 4HKOs, gets 3HKOed (closish to 4HKOed, even, so Swordedge is as utterly worthless as usual) back and 5-3s. Ragnar needs Sword of Lethargy to be turn two and I don't really buy that.
Ragnar Mc Ryan vs Shana (LoD) - EDIT: Yeah, see below.
Ragnar Mc Ryan vs Janus Cascade (WA3) - His kind of fight.
Ragnar Mc Ryan vs Butterfree (PKMN) - status
Ragnar Mc Ryan vs Kain Highwind (FF4) - Good -lord-. Kain even has a case, but his damage is just too damned bad.

4-6. Ragnar... is probably a Light, even if a top-of-the-line one. Healing, status or just plain better slugging ruin him badly, though his own limited options in addition to the gross durability make him very scary in the lowest division. Seriously, 1.8ish pdur.

Miriel (FE13) vs Bowman Jean (SO2) - May well OHKO and doesn't have to.
Miriel vs Paws (CSTW) - Paws 2HKOs Miriel with Backstab. Ow.
Miriel vs Teddie (Pers4) - Thoron hits a weakness, good -lord-. If that wasn't enough, she 2HKOs him as it stands. Maybe Teddie isn't a Middle.
Miriel vs Bartholomew Fatima (XG) - 2HKOs and magic halving. It works.
Miriel vs Roxis Rosenkrantz (MK1) - Roxis avoids counters with timed cards and two-rounds while not being 2HKOed back. It works.
Miriel vs Rinoa Heartilly (FF8) - I -think- Rinoa is faster? This is decisive, since Miriel wins otherwise. But yeah.
Miriel vs Shana (LoD) - Shana has a lot of mdur here.
Miriel vs Janus Cascade (WA3) - I have my doubts Janus even -2HKOs- Miriel while I have no trouble seeing her 3HKO back... and that's assuming he can circumvent counters.
Miriel vs Butterfree (PKMN) - Dear lord, Miriel is -gross- when she hits weakness.
Miriel vs Kain Highwind (FF4) - Huh, lemme check Kain's damage lalalala... *mathmathmath.* HOLY CRAP 22% to average WITH JUMP? Miriel eats him alive with Rexcalibur, she gets at least four cracks at him this way and I'm not sure he survives -three-. Kain, you're pretty damned bad.

4-6. Vaguely odd that Miriel ended up similar to Ragnar in this pool, even though they're polarizingly different as far as duellers go. She's been discussed before as well, so yeah. Still funny to see what happens whenever she doubles or hits a weakness, though.

[Random Consonant]

Nergal (FE7) vs Bowman (SO2) - lawl.
Nergal vs Paws (CSTW) - Screw Nuke, Paws's *physical* is ITD and certainly deals with Nergal well enough here with or without Unstable Form.  2/3rds as much damage but he doubles with it.
Nergal vs Bart (XG) - sure.
Nergal vs Laharl (Dis)
Nergal vs Roxis (MK1)
Nergal vs Rinoa (FF8) - uh huh.
Nergal vs Shana (LoD) - Sharanda can't kill Nergal even if she burns all her MP and her physical damage IS SO GODDAMNED BAD she strugges to complete the deal even *without* taking the dark weakness into consideration.
Nergal vs Janus (WA3) - Only Fortune Gear Janus takes this and that can go get fucked behind a dumpster.
Nergal vs Butterfree (PKMN) - do you want a cookie nergal
Nergal vs Kain (FF4) - Jump kind of sort of a thing that I wouldn't let people double with

Ragnar (DQ4) vs Bowman (SO2) - Sure.
Ragnar vs Paws (CSTW) - The speed split here is gross.
Ragnar vs Bart (XG) - Evasion.
Ragnar vs Laharl (Dis) - Don't think Laharl has the resource depth needed to outslug.  Edit: okay so he actually does, never mind
Ragnar vs Roxis (MK1) - Yeah not buying Ragnar 2HKOing, Roxis isn't *that* frail.
Ragnar vs Rinoa (FF8)
Ragnar vs Shana (LoD) - Shana struggles to lop off half of Ragnar's HP through the burning of gas and Ragnar surely 2HKOs her untransformed.  edit: confuse bow is 25%.  That hype can go get fucked.
Ragnar vs Janus (WA3)
Ragnar vs Butterfree (PKMN) - eh sure, Ragnar is so slow that I'd buy this working.
Ragnar vs Kain (FF4) - EXTRA KAIN DAMAGE WHATEVER SHALL WE DO

Miriel (FE13) vs Bowman (SO2) - egads.
Miriel vs Paws (CSTW)- Backstab (barely) 2HKOs Sage Miriel even before any speed considerations/Unstable Form.  Dark Knight Miriel gets horrendously outslugged.
Miriel vs Bart (XG) - Magic-halving whip!
Miriel vs Laharl (Dis)
Miriel vs Roxis (MK1) - Roxis certainly isn't slow enough to be doubled.
Miriel vs Rinoa (FF8) - *um*
Miriel vs Shana (LoD) - oh wow no.
Miriel vs Janus (WA3) - Phallic Tower of Phallicness Janus may have an outside shot at this, but uh.
Miriel vs Butterfree (PKMN) - what miriel only gets the ohko for gen1 *WHAT IS THIS*.  Unthing.  Sigh.  Her Res isn't special enough to fend off turn 1 sleep, but... hm... if sleep wearing off is indeed as advertised for gen3 onwards then... yeah okay, sure, she 2HKOs no matter what and I'm gutchecking DK gives her good enough odds for this.
Miriel vs Kain (FF4) - Okay.  Kain does ~0.227 with Jump, thus 3HKOing Sage Miriel and 4HKOing DK Miriel, and is about 1.15 mdur, thus narrowly dodging the 3HKO from Sage Miriel and still being 4HKO'd by DK Miriel assuming Rexcalibur.  So unless Kain can get wind res here then this seems fairly clear-cut to me, hooray for counters.

[Luther Lansfeld]

i boycott this topic due to kain

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Ragnar vs Shana (LoD) - Shana struggles to lop off half of Ragnar's HP through the burning of gas and Ragnar surely 2HKOs her untransformed.  edit: confuse bow is 25%.  That hype can go get fucked.

Not so sure there. If Ragnar is as slow as I'm kneejerking (below 60% average speed), she's constantly doubling. Which was pretty much my reasoning.

[Random Consonant]

Ragnar's only -1.2 SD to me going off of 4DS, which certainly isn't constantly doubled here, Shana doesn't even manage 120% speed, let alone *140%*.  Looking at the NES topic I'd be surprised if he didn't end up in a similar spot.  And considering my memory of LoD confuse *wearing off when you get hit* I am kind of doubtful it works out in her favor anyways.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Yeah, 1.2 isn't slow enough. I was kneejerking more like 1.7, but DQ4 speed has a huge enough curve for the standard deviations to work out more sanely than the numbers themselves imply. I'm switching my vote.

[Dhyerwolf]

Ragnar's only -1.2 SD to me going off of 4DS, which certainly isn't constantly doubled here, Shana doesn't even manage 120% speed, let alone *140%*.  Looking at the NES topic I'd be surprised if he didn't end up in a similar spot.  And considering my memory of LoD confuse *wearing off when you get hit* I am kind of doubtful it works out in her favor anyways.

No, LoD Confuse doesn't wear off when you get hit, which is why it is satanic. Only time.

[Random Consonant]

Perhaps I was mixing it up with some other status then.  Would almost matter if it didn't take too long to kick in here anways.

[074]

Nergal vs Teddie (Pers4) - Teddie's not getting shit for damage through that--I give non-FEers average AS for defensive purposes only--and getting heal-locked by Eresh, most likely.
Nergal vs Bart (XG) Yeahl, I'll buy MAGIC HALVING WHIP hype.
Nergal vs Laharl (Dis) Kneejerking between offense and counter-counters.
Nergal vs Janus (WA3) - Fortune Gear Janus wins this due to REFLECT, otherwise no.  Going to abstain.
Nergal vs Butterfree (PKMN) - Nergal > butterflies.  This is sad, but important to know.
Nergal vs Kain (FF4) - I'll have to check about Jump's delay and counter-ignoring properties. [EDIT] Kneejerking Kain here.

2-3.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Nergal (FE7) vs Bowman (SO2): Dark immunity? Okay then.
Nergal vs Paws (CSTW): ITD damage.
Nergal vs Bart (XG): I'll change this is it turns out Bart's magic-lowering whip worked on bosses.
Nergal vs Laharl (Dis): Laharl had decent damage.
Nergal vs Roxis (MK1): Chrona Drive doesn't double or trigger counters, and the timed cards + the following Trick Edge should be good enough.
Nergal vs Rinoa (FF8): Yikes.
Nergal vs Shana (LoD): Darkness weakness lets him complete the 2HKO.
Nergal vs Janus (WA3): Janus' damage is pretty similar to Shady's. i.e., not 2HKOing Nergal.
Nergal vs Tita (Trails): Surely?
Nergal vs Butterfree (PKMN): Well at least he can beat butterflies.
Nergal vs Kain (FF4): To win this, Kain both needs to double with Jump and to hit an Aureola-style weakness. I'm not buying both at once.

Ragnar (DQ4) vs Bowman (SO2): Sure I'll buy Bowman having a faster 3HKO. Close though.
Ragnar vs Paws (CSTW): Either healing or just Backstab blitzing probably both work.
Ragnar vs Bart (XG): Evasion.
Ragnar vs Laharl (Dis): Laharl 4HKOs and isn't 2HKOed, has a 4-3. Not sure exactly what prompts the "Yeah. No." when Laharl is just a better tier of slugger than Ragnar. His resource depth is fine against non-healers; he has five shots of Overlord's Wrath (above average damage).
Ragnar vs Roxis (MK1): Ragnar misses the 2HKO. This is very, very bad.
Ragnar vs Rinoa (FF8): See Laharl. Even worse if she draws a limit somehow, though Ragnar should be able to avoid that.
Ragnar vs Shana (LoD): Shana has a 3-2 but Ragnar 2HKOs her untransformed, so confuse is out. I guess Shana instead wants to attack twice, heal, etc... but no that runs into sleep. And she doesn't have the resource depth to blast him to death.
Ragnar vs Janus (WA3): Janus has like a 6HKO here? That may actually be enough since Ragnar probably only 4HKOs... but eh. Close and the type of fight Swordedge might tilt. Also Janus may miss the 6HKO, I don't have a great handle on his damage.
Ragnar vs Tita (Trails): Earth Guard, then spam petrify.
Ragnar vs Butterfree (PKMN): Ugh, Butterfree only 9HKOs and has to stop Ragnar from getting three turns ever or Sword of Lethargy will connect. That said... sleep lasts on average four of the target's turns (and Butterfree has a 5-4 easily enough so gets four of its own turns for every sleep cycle), and sleep won't miss that often since in RBY Butterfree gets a called shot whenever it wakes up. Guess Butterfree's actually decent enough against no sleep resistance because RBY sleep is that good.
Ragnar vs Kain (FF4): Um yeah I don't buy the hype of Kain making his opponent miss turns personally. He's just lucky I don't let Ragnar defend against Jump.

Miriel (FE13) vs Bowman (SO2): OHKOs Sage, isn't 3HKOed by Dark Knight.
Miriel vs Paws (CSTW): Tricky since both duellers have a build choice I'm not sure about! Well Paws doesn't double either way. Miriel 3HKOs either way. Paws... can lock down her offence with Regen + healing except I don't buy that hype because I give Cthulhu opponents damage boosts starting turn 4. He... barely 2HKOs Sage with Backstab, though, so that's an easy win. Dark Knight's trickier. Actually, never mind, Dark Knight's lower offence means the healing strategy DOES have time to work. Buff/heal, fire off Nukes, using paralysis to ensure they land and also making regen better, then Backstab after the second one lands. Miriel's damage never boosts high enough to really be a bother. Doesn't even need Unstable Form.
Miriel vs Bart (XG): 3HKOs at worst with the magic halving against Dark Knight, while halving her damage.
Miriel vs Laharl (Dis): Laharl has a 2HKO regardless, and in counter-ignoring fashion most likely.
Miriel vs Roxis (MK1): Isn't doubled or 2HKOed, Chrona Drive does bad things.
Miriel vs Rinoa (FF8): Rinoa's speed is in that range I'd definitely see threat range mattering more (technically fractionally below average). But... Dark Knight misses the 3HKO, so Sage going first is Miriel's only argument. Not too inclined to buy that.
Miriel vs Shana (LoD): Shana has the magic durability to do what she needs to do to win. Confuse? WSD smash against the not-too-durable Miriel? Either way.
Miriel vs Janus (WA3): Yeah I vote on the last form which was quite magey IIRC. His physical game shouldn't be too much worse but that's ST and I doubt it even 2HKOs Sage, so ow.
Miriel vs Tita (Trails): Don't think Tita's tricks work here.
Miriel vs Butterfree (PKMN): Dark Knight gets the first turn but doesn't OHKO, Sage goes second (and does OHKO) so either way Butterfree gets one turn. That said her res is just good enough to ward off turn 1 sleep to me. FRLG has a better case in a few fronts but sleep is far less "I win" as Random notes.
Miriel vs Kain (FF4): Sure.

Nergal 6-5
Miriel 4-7
Ragnar 3-8

Nergal superior.