PG Finals Heavy: No Zidanes allowed.

[superaielman]

1. Aima: 21-19

Lans: 16-27 (37.2%)
Ness: 20-34 (37%)

I used nothing but heavy champions here. vote on the listed form please!

Aima (Lufia 3) vs Scias (BoF4)
Aima vs Seed (S2)
Aima vs T260G (Saga)
Aima vs Deamoned (BoF5)
Aima vs Demi (PS4)
Aima vs Jowy (S2)
Aima vs Decus (SO2)
Aima vs Valvalis (FF4)
Aima vs Roufas (Saga)
Aima vs Beatrix (FF9)
Aima vs Harken (ACF)
Aima vs Teepo (BoF3)

Lucina (FE13) vs Scias (BoF4)
Lucina vs Seed (S2)
Lucina vs T260G (Saga)
Lucina vs Deamoned (BoF5)
Lucina vs Demi (PS4)
Lucina vs Jowy (S2)
Lucina vs Decus (SO2)
Lucina vs Valvalis (FF4)
Lucina vs Roufas (Saga)
Lucina vs Beatrix (FF9)
Lucina vs Harken (ACF)
Lucina vs Teepo (BoF3)

[superaielman]

Aima (Lufia 3) vs Scias (BoF4)- Scias has no fatal status and is utterly fucked if Aima resists his status at the wrong time.
Aima vs Seed (S2)- Seed's poor durability does him in here, I think .
Aima vs T260G (Saga)- Trashcan has too much defense.
Aima vs Deamoned (BoF5)- Should be able to chip.
Aima vs Demi (PS4)- OHKOs eventually. PS4 sleep might tip it, but I have reasonably low base respect for that.
Aima vs Jowy (S2)- Jowy has to avoid too many limit ranges. He might be able to get lucky with ID, but it's not enough to change my vote.
Aima vs Decus (SO2)- Scatterhit=one dead wiseman.
Aima vs Valvalis (FF4)- Spam slow petrify, that should be enough. I'll change this if it turns out slow petrify can only be used with weak.
Aima vsRoufas (Saga)- Spellbound should be enough offhand.
Aima vs Beatrix (FF9)- Beatrix has absolutely no way to deal with Aima's crazy limit ranges.
Aima vs Teepo (BoF3)- Teepo can survive a Scatterhit, but he also has to deal with a couple of Aima physicals as well. She has too much durability.

Aima: 7-4

[SnowFire]

Lucina vs Seed (S2)
Lucina vs Jowy (S2) - So are the Winged Boots actually on Jowy or not?  I think Lucina doubles if they're not, judging by the stat topic.  Regardless...  Not down on giving Jowy a damage average that'd lead to OHKO hype, his 2HKO is really a 3HKO thanks to evade, and even if Lucina doesn't double, she still 2HKOs anyway, if barely (but but JOWY REGEN HYPE or something?!).
Lucina vs Decus (SO2) - Another magical 2HKO which becomes a 3HKO, and this time Lucina definitely doubles for sure.
Lucina vs Valvalis (FF4) - Lucina's spear animation does have her jumping around sometimes...
Lucina vs Beatrix (FF9) - You did this match already, super.

3-2

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Lucina (FE13) vs Scias (BoF4) - Scias needs to: sleep Lucina, not get countered when he wakes her up and not miss a single hit on the two multi-hit Shining Blades he needs to kill her. This is a bit -too- much, she rips him in half if she ever gets to lay a finger on his ass.
Lucina vs Seed (S2) - Dear god this is a slaughter.
Lucina vs T260G (Saga) - Dear god this is a slaughter.
Lucina vs Demi (PS4) - Lucina heal-locks at base and even a single Aether means Demi gets one-rounded, so her only hope is trying to sleep hax her way. I do -not- respect her Sleep this much.
Lucina vs Jowy Atreides (S2) - Jowy fails to OHKO, fails to avoid doubles and Lucina dodges turn two. Add to that the odds of her actually one-turning him straight and I feel the match is mostly in her favor.
Lucina vs Decus (SO2) - Slice dice dice.
Lucina vs Valvalis (FF4) - Physicals vs. Val, so much lol.
Lucina vs Roufas (Saga) - Not too inclined to see him avoiding doubles post-Awakening nowadays and Lucina doubles him at base. She comes equipped with a Javelin to force counters out of him (he lacks solid enough MT options) and that's more or less that? He can't ever get around a two-rounding either unless he gets -very- lucky with evade, which he can't rely on when he's healing or buffing - only when he's on the offense. Palsy... is likely the best bet, but man does that status suck.
Lucina vs Beatrix (FF9) - I've seen you before.
Lucina vs Lady Harken (ACF) - Harken actually IS fast enough to avoid being doubled, which severely dampens Lucina's offense, and she counters herself - not to mention the inane blocking rate. Harken might not even truly need a Maximum Risk to kill, but she'll probably get it anyway.
Lucina vs Teepo (BoF3) - Ew, this is gross. Teepo can't -ever- 2HKO Lucina (he can only 3HKO avoiding counters at 50% HP to boot), his best damage triggers her OHKO-level counters -and- is kinda inaccurate and she likely two-rounds if even a single Aether procs. Evade means she doesn't even -need- to two-round.

[Random Consonant]

Aima (Lufia 3) vs Scias (BoF4) - Scias cannot afford to let Aima get a turn.
Aima vs Seed (S2) - Oh lord.
Aima vs T260G (Saga) - Faster, 2HKOs, may not even be 2HKO'd in returned.  The smashcan is strong.
Aima vs Demi (PS4) - Demi's only hope is sleep hax and I don't respect that enough
Aima vs Jowy (S2) - Jowy can't OHKO ever and the ID is turn too late to matter
Aima vs Decus (SO2)
Aima vs Valvalis (FF4)
Aima vs Roufas (Saga) - man, palsy hype?  If that's his only shot, then...
Aima vs Beatrix (FF9)

Lucina (FE13) vs Scias (BoF4) - Again, Scias *cannot* let Lucina get a turn here.
Lucina vs Seed (S2) - oh lord
Lucina vs T260G (Saga) - Smashcan goin' to work.
Lucina vs Demi (PS4)
Lucina vs Jowy (S2) - Jowy misses the OHKO?  That's game.
Lucina vs Decus (SO2)
Lucina vs Valvalis (FF4)
Lucina vs Roufas (Saga) - see above
Lucina vs Beatrix (FF9)

[Dhyerwolf]

How does T2 2HKO Aima? T2 generally either OHKOs or 3HKOs (Since the turn 1 OHKO damage disables after being used once and the longer term damage is a turn to go into V-Max). Not that T2 doesn't win anyways, but don't see how she's getting a 2HKO specifically here.

[Cmdr_King]

Lucina (FE13) vs Scias (BoF4)
Lucina vs Seed (S2)
Lucina vs T260G (Saga)
Lucina vs Deamoned (BoF5)- I think?  He more or less has to HP->1 then attack on the next turn, that's a lot of lucina offense during which she probably sees two aethers.
Lucina vs Demi (PS4)
Lucina vs Jowy (S2)- Jowy misses a OHKO he needs badly here.
Lucina vs Decus (SO2)
Lucina vs Valvalis (FF4)
Lucina vs Roufas (Saga)
Lucina vs Beatrix (FF9)
Lucina vs Harken (ACF)- Hi Lucina.  This is Harken.  She's basically your evil counterpart.
Lucina vs Teepo (BoF3)

9-3

[Random Consonant]

How does T2 2HKO Aima? T2 generally either OHKOs or 3HKOs (Since the turn 1 OHKO damage disables after being used once and the longer term damage is a turn to go into V-Max). Not that T2 doesn't win anyways, but don't see how she's getting a 2HKO specifically here.

My apologies, I left "after V-Max" out of that statement, so yes, turn 3 in practice, though I also underrated T2's durability a bit as well.  I don't really know what her full-tilt offense twinking looks like so I can't automatically rule out Magnify+PluralSlash 2HKOing despite my doubts that it actually does and my doubts of it being a good idea anyways, but thankfully it doesn't matter.

[Dhyerwolf]

Shock that Aima made it to the finals. She's fun, but so flawed in Heavy (and that's starting with 37 IP, let alone 0)

Aima (Lufia 3) vs Scias (BoF4)- Working under the general assumption that BoF 4 statuses dont' have good duration
Aima vs Seed (S2)
Aima vs T260G (Saga)- Aima puts up a better show than normal here
Aima vs Deamoned (BoF5)
Aima vs Demi (PS4)
Aima vs Jowy (S2)
Aima vs Decus (SO2)- Decent Decus durability respect. He 2HKOs, isn't OHKOed. Scatterhit is good...in that it's a bit above OHKO damage, but yeah.
Aima vs Valvalis (FF4)
Aima vs Roufas (Saga)
Aima vs Beatrix (FF9)
Aima vs Harken (ACF)
Aima vs Teepo (BoF3)- Not 100% sure here, but she may get the Wave Motion clone going here

Aima 7-5

[Dark Holy Elf]

Lucina (FE13) vs Scias (BoF4): So Sleep will work once. Scias badly needs the attack which removes sleep not to trigger counters (no clue) and it would help a lot if the second hit didn't face evasion (again no clue). Even then... it's a rough fight since he needs all four hits of two Shining Blades, and 2 of those minimum face 37% evade. It really sounds like too much.
Lucina vs Seed (S2): Seed magic doesn't 2HKO, Seed physicals do but get him OHKOed.
Lucina vs T260G (Saga): Well, I think this is the first time this Proving Grounds we get to see Lucina get completely destroyed.
Lucina vs Deamoned (BoF5): Ned should be able to turn off counters with stun, but it's not enough, since evade puts any hope of one-rounding out of reach, and Lucina's silly high damage mostly punches through his AD.
Lucina vs Demi (PS4): Demi needs a perfect sleep-lock to win this. Her sleep's not good enough for that.
Lucina vs Jowy (S2): Jowy does 1.1 PCHP unless you hand out runes to people who don't have them DL legally to pad the average. Fuck that noise, literally results in a cast with below average damage overall. Lucina only has 1.09 mdur and doesn't evade turn 1. EDIT: That said Jowy's own damage should be held against himself, sure, which brings him to... 1.0875 or so? Sure.
Lucina vs Decus (SO2): Decus 2HKOs faster, but dat evade ruins this.
Lucina vs Valvalis (FF4): Evade/weak/poke/etc. STONE prevents some weird turtle Lucina win.
Lucina vs Roufas (Saga): Palsy is basically PS4 sleep, same issue. Though... mm. It's significantly more accurate. Unless I force it to face Lucina's evade? Nah, status attacks don't hit evade in Saga, and Lucina doesn't evade status either.
Lucina vs Beatrix (FF9): Think we've seen this.
Lucina vs Harken (ACF): Harken survives a Lucina turn on raw defence, so survives two thanks to parry. And has counters, while her own damage is ranged. And has ITD/ITE Maximum Risk. She matches up very well here.
Lucina vs Teepo (BoF3): Y'know, I tend to underrate Teepo's durability. I can't imagine in-game damage is much higher than DL because Bonebreak is a much bigger factor in the DL figures than it is in-game, should offset masters. So he's... 4.7 PCHP or so? Yeesh. That said I don't think it matters, his offence above half HP sucks enough that it can't overcome Falchion healing (unless he uses Triple Blow which triggers counters, and still only barely overcomes it). Once below half I think Lucina should be able to blitz, thanks to her evade and Aether chances. I guess her Falchion doesn't actually matter much for her in long fights, +3 damage but fewer procs.

Lucina 8-4

[Dhyerwolf]

Jowy doesn't have 1.1 PC HP when temps (aka: himself) are in the average though.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Can you check that average? There is no way the average rises by 27 points when Jowy is included, that would imply that Jowy is 1900 points above average damage which is ludicrous. The only other person who might be considered a temp is Nanami.

That said even though I suspect that's a typo of some sort, even a small change (say, 8-10 points, which is what I'd eyeball it as) is probably enough to let Lucina stave off a OHKO.

[Dhyerwolf]

I think I considered Tir a "temp."

[Dark Holy Elf]

Needless to say I'd disagree with scaling a "requires data importing" PC against Jowy. That said this is a "for future reference" thing, still flipping my vote.