Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 122

[Nephrite]

"Very well! Let us see what you can do now!"


Link to the Dungeon Wiki!

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**Full Heals reset limit and other types of gauges when teams pass through them.
**Characters that join after the start are locked into the relative stats they have at that time until they would officially join.


Team Pyro | Rikku, Ryu2, Lilka, FFT Chemist, and Rand (Firefly)
Floor 3b: Divided you Fail
**35% of all damage done by the player team is returned to the character who dealt it as ITD damage, based on whatever damage would be done to the target after all reductions.
Team Pyro vs. Shadow Yukiko, Shadow Chie and Shadow Yosuke
Team Pyro vs. Ike, Soren, Titania & Mist (FE9 forms)
Team Pyro vs. Jecht

Team Dhyer | Cecilia (Speed?), Alys, Terra , Ronfar, Jean(Lunar)
Floor 3a: Unified Strength
**On this floor, party and enemy HP is pooled together. If someone is fatally statused, likewise if a character is hit with gravity, that health should be removed.
Team Dhyer vs. Citan, Billy, Bart and Rico
Team Dhyer vs. Hashmalum and Velius
Team Dhyer vs. Seymour Omnis

Team Snowfire | Yuri2 (as Trode), Guv, Yangus, Jessica, Angelo (SSL)
Floor 5b: A Less Fair Fight
*Enemies on this floor have 1.5x Health
Team Snowfire vs. Seymour 1 and Wendigo
Team Snowfire vs. Spectral Keeper and Sanctuary Keeper
Team Snowfire vs. Seymour Natus

Team dude | Mei-Ling, Feena, Aika, White Rose, FFT Monk  (Vantage)
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team dude vs. Big Joe, Evil Gaia, 10 Jogurts, VP1 Hrist, Euram Barrows, Gobi, Sinspawn Ammes, Garland and Igglanova (PS4)
Team dude vs. Cecil, Cid and Rosa
Team dude vs. Augus and Joker (BoF2)

Status Symbol Law - Team is fully status, debuff and ID immune, but has damage done to them increased by 1.1x and damage done by them decreased to .9x.

Speed? - The effective speed of one character is set to 120% (1.2x) average speed. This number may be further increased by Haste effects.

Firefly - The first attack of each enemy will be redirected at the bearer of this sealstone. Multitarget and status moves are not affected, however status attached to damage is.

Vantage Effect - Counterattack abilities activate before being attacked and also increases the chance of any counter attack activation skill to 100%.

[Dhyerwolf]

Neph, did I not pick A? If so, I meant to.

[Dhyerwolf]

Team Snowfire | Yuri2 (as Trode), Guv, Yangus, Jessica, Angelo (SSL)
Floor 5b: A Less Fair Fight
*Enemies on this floor have 1.5x Health
Team Snowfire vs. Seymour 1 and Wendigo- Okay, I'm assuming that Seymour 1 still summons Anima? Or he just starts as if Anima was already dead? Seymour is near 1 PC HP before the bonus (and that's before support credit, which is definitely a bit of a thing for him), so about ~1.75 PC HP. Obviously multi-ra is nasty (Forces both Jessica and Angelo to open with Bounce likely). Wendigo is near 2.2 PC HP prior to support credit and the 50% bonus, so...yeah, durable to say the least.

Seymour does 89% to one (98% after SSL) or 82% to two. Wendigo does 83% to one.

So thoughts on whether Yuri has the MT revival yet? That will be kind of critical. At best, I think that a lot of MP goes here for Guv and Angelo.


Team Snowfire vs. Spectral Keeper and Sanctuary Keeper- So...Sanctuary Keeper can OHKO Jessica all day long and ignores Bounce. Also, they are both faster than Yuri, so will probably choose to combine and keep him dead (or if Yuri is hit with the Berserk, then Sanctuary Keeper will KO Jessica or Angelo)

Spectral Keeper- Attack Yuri (50% chance of Berserk)
Jessica- ...Accelerate?
Sanctuary Keeper- Either kill Yuri if not Berserked, or kill Jessica
Angelo- Kazing
Yuri is either barely revived or Berserked, so not turn
Guv- Attack in some manner
Yangus- Attack in some manner
Accelerate helps now although seems like the enemies can keep Yuri from getting a turn.
Jessica attack
Angelo- Attack or status cure Yuri

If at any point a Spectral Keeper counter is triggered on Jessica or Angelo, Sanctuary Keeper can follow up with MT to finish them off and damage everyone else. At least the status is out.
Team Snowfire vs. Seymour Natus

Gut is leaning on the not good side here. Nasty floor.

[Nephrite]

Neph, did I not pick A? If so, I meant to.

Whoops! I'll fix that, sorry.

[Pyro]

----------------
**Full Heals reset limit and other types of gauges when teams pass through them.
**Characters that join after the start are locked into the relative stats they have at that time until they would officially join.


Team Pyro | Rikku, Ryu2, Lilka, FFT Chemist, and Rand (Firefly)
Floor 3b: Divided you Fail
**35% of all damage done by the player team is returned to the character who dealt it as ITD damage, based on whatever damage would be done to the target after all reductions.

Yay Ryu2 has MT Dragons. I've never seen Ryu2 use those in the dungeon.
Team Pyro vs. Shadow Yukiko, Shadow Chie and Shadow Yosuke: At any time, Ryu2 can use an MT Dragon to do massive damage (at this point it's completely ridiculous... about as much as G. Drgn when scaling is taken into account?) to all 3 and be KO'd. Lilka, Chemist, or Rand can revive him, and Chemist can restore MP to do it again if it came to that. The only big threat is Yukiko, and she goes down to a handful of damage and a dragon. Once Yukiko is down it's over.
Team Pyro vs. Ike, Soren, Titania & Mist (FE9 forms): Petrify Grenade. Keep it simple. Otherwise it is messier, but I don't think so.
Team Pyro vs. Jecht: Quick on folks before his nasty MT phase makes this much more sane. MT dragon cuts right through that nasty phase too.

Team Dhyer | Cecilia (Speed?), Alys, Terra , Ronfar, Jean(Lunar)
Floor 3a: Unified Strength
**On this floor, party and enemy HP is pooled together. If someone is fatally statused, likewise if a character is hit with gravity, that health should be removed.
Team Dhyer vs. Citan, Billy, Bart and Rico: Death and Prison make this easy.
Team Dhyer vs. Hashmalum and Velius: Erm. Hashy or Alys faster? Let's say Alys. Saner. Hashy Stops Ceci. Velius will want to bite into Ronfar. That's really bad. Terra doesn't have Remedy either. And without Terra the team's offense is really bad. This could get messy. I'll let Dhyer argue in his favor. Maybe the two can't keep the status up for long enough?
Team Dhyer vs. Seymour Omnis: If he gets here he'd be... probably okay? Don't know if I'd let Omnis spam Ultima. The lack of damage is a massive pain here, as Terra can't bring it down with the fire.

Team Snowfire | Yuri2 (as Trode), Guv, Yangus, Jessica, Angelo (SSL)
Floor 5b: A Less Fair Fight
*Enemies on this floor have 1.5x Health
Team Snowfire vs. Seymour 1 and Wendigo
Team Snowfire vs. Spectral Keeper and Sanctuary Keeper
Team Snowfire vs. Seymour Natus: I'll let Snowfire break this one down. Doesn't look good.

Team dude | Mei-Ling, Feena, Aika, White Rose, FFT Monk  (Vantage)
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team dude vs. Big Joe, Evil Gaia, 10 Jogurts, VP1 Hrist, Euram Barrows, Gobi, Sinspawn Ammes, Garland and Igglanova (PS4)
Team dude vs. Cecil, Cid and Rosa
Team dude vs. Augus and Joker (BoF2): Not sure here? What does the team even have floor 1?

[Dhyerwolf]

Team Dhyer | Cecilia (Speed?), Alys, Terra , Ronfar, Jean(Lunar)
Floor 3a: Unified Strength
**On this floor, party and enemy HP is pooled together. If someone is fatally statused, likewise if a character is hit with gravity, that health should be removed.
Team Dhyer vs. Citan, Billy, Bart and Rico
Team Dhyer vs. Hashmalum and Velius- So Hashmalum can status out Cecilia. Velius needs to follow with Ronfar or else Hashmalum's work is cancelled out. But...Saner, Morph Terra, Jean. Morph Terra is pumping out massive damage and Hashmalum's HP is horrible (dying to one Morph Terra Fire 2). Velius can take a lot more but Saner means that he'll be eating 1 Morph Fire 2, one Jean attacks and 1 Alys attack before he even has the chance to take Terra out of the equation. He'd need several more turns and by that time Cecilia probably won't even be Stopped anymore. This fight is a big difference between 2 and 3 statusers.
Team Dhyer vs. Seymour Omnis- Cecilia is just lots of fun there. Ability to hit lots of elements, Defense Down. Only real fear would be funning out of MP, but it's not like the other fights are really straining that too much (and her stuff isn't too expensive and really once Defense Down is in place, everyone can contribute damage decently).

Saner is still fun. Seymour can dispel it and in so doing choose to waste his turn.

[Pyro]

For the Hashy/Velius fight, don't forget the Unified Strength aspect. You have to eat through both HP pools. Terr and Ceci are all the damage, too. I guess Alys can contribute but eh. Not sure still.

[Random Consonant]

Team Dhyer | Cecilia (Speed?), Alys, Terra , Ronfar, Jean(Lunar)
Floor 3a: Unified Strength
**On this floor, party and enemy HP is pooled together. If someone is fatally statused, likewise if a character is hit with gravity, that health should be removed.
Team Dhyer vs. Citan, Billy, Bart and Rico - Think this is simple enough.
Team Dhyer vs. Hashmalum and Velius - Neither of these guys are that durable.  Either they go after the damage and run into status healing, or they go after the status healing and get blitzed.
Team Dhyer vs. Seymour Omnis - And there's no real reason why the team wouldn't be able to handle this if it makes it here.  For added fun Alys can thwack all the mortithingers so Terra can kill Seymour with fire.

[Dhyerwolf]

For the Hashy/Velius fight, don't forget the Unified Strength aspect. You have to eat through both HP pools. Terr and Ceci are all the damage, too. I guess Alys can contribute but eh. Not sure still.

Right duh. Completely went over my head. That certainly helps them a bit. Note that depending on Alys scaling, she may actually have pretty solid MT damage (Alys is weird. She learns stuff up until L27, so where exactly she's cut off varies a bit. If she ends at L18 this floor, then she has about averagish MT damage or so).

Jean has zone damage which is baaad at endgame, unsure earlier. Hopefully given early damage hype she's at least pulling average (because Ronfar, Lemina, Lucia...etc)

So assuming Terra does 0.8, she's get two turns. One theoretical 0.8 total turn from Alys. 2.4 assuming that Jean is doing average damage. Think this should be more than enough. Obviously can be worse depending on Alys scaling.

Probably also helpful that looking at it, that 20 clockticks for Stop does mean that Cecilia probably will come around at some point, which hopefully at worst is the panic option.

[dude789]

Team dude | Mei-Ling, Feena, Aika, White Rose, FFT Monk  (Vantage)
[Floor 1: Starting off Again (Beginning of the game)]
Team dude vs. Big Joe, Evil Gaia, 10 Jogurts, VP1 Hrist, Euram Barrows, Gobi, Sinspawn Ammes, Garland and Igglanova (PS4) Flash Fire. It should be really strong right now.
Team dude vs. Cecil, Cid and Rosa Everyone aside from maybe the monk should be faster than Rosa. Gang up on her and finish before she gets a turn. Cecil and Cid aren't threatening by themselves.
Team dude vs. Augus and Joker (BoF2) This is tough, but the teams offense should be pretty solid at this point. Spamming magic should wear down Augus and Joker faster than they wear down the team.

[Pyro]

Yeah I think Dhyer passes the FFT boss fight.

For Seymour, I don't think he can spam Ultima, right? He had to precursor it with Dispel? I Didn't think about Alys MTing and switching his absorb/weakness. Still, without solidish MT healing two Ultimas would clean shop... but I tend to doubt he gets them.

Dhyer Passes.

[Dhyerwolf]

For Seymour, I do at least have two MT Healers (Ronfar and Terra can MT Cure, which probably isn't too bad with Morph. Seymour does 5 x 0.7 damage or 3.5 PC HP, so even just three of them focusing on ST healing gets rid of most). Throw in Seymour either facing a good clip of doubles or having to waste a turn on Dispel and I think that he might faces issues regardless (Helps that no one on my team is particularly undurable and Jean and Ronfar probably about cancel Cecilia's low HP; thanks Lucia!)

Of course, who knows what level of MT Healing Ronfar has at this time. His ST healing is at full, so hopefully it isn't too bad (Even 40% goes a long way and basically means that Cecilia won't have to heal much).

[SnowFire]

5a is the "no status / buffs / debuffs" floor, so I'd keep SSL's downside but get no upside.  Yeah no.

Not a complete breakdown yet, but as a few quick comments -

Team Snowfire | Yuri2 (as Trode), Guv, Yangus, Jessica, Angelo (SSL)
Floor 5b: A Less Fair Fight
*Enemies on this floor have 1.5x Health
Team Snowfire vs. Seymour 1 and Wendigo
Wendigo is vulnerable to Blind.  It doesn't matter once he's at 75% HP due to getting ITE, but if you have Wendigo HP respect, he can be Blinded then basically ignored as the team deals with Seymour 1.  (Alternatively, Accelerate -> 5 turns of offense all aimed at Wendigo after Arc Rage or something if your HP respect is less.)

Dhyer, I think Yuri1 is the one with the broken MT Revive / curing?  Did Yuri2 get that as well?  If so, I forget....

Team Snowfire vs. Spectral Keeper and Sanctuary Keeper
Point of order: While FFX Berserk does have an upside, I'd personally let SSL team members blanket immune any status that originates from the enemy side, even if it's something that appears positive (Yunalesca's Regen, say - not that that would matter because Zombie gets immuned too).  This makes the match straight slugging...  which is admittedly still scary, with that 10% damage boost meaning there are Keeper OHKOs flying everywhere.
EDIT: Okay, so it's only Sanctuary that has the counterattacks.  This makes things easier: Spectral Keeper OHKOs whoever he likes, then that person gets rez'd by either Angelo or Yuri.  Sanctuary's damage gets ignored and healed off every two-three turns or so.  Even if you see Angelo / Yuri / Guv as mostly locked on the defensive, that leaves Jessica & Yangus to eventually kill Spectral, who does not really have time to mess with Protect.  Once Spectral's down, Sanctuary isn't a threat, his counters are not a big deal when there isn't Spectral to help out with MT damage.

If you see Sanctuary's mines working through SSL, that isn't a big deal, he only places them after getting hit 4 times - which is probably scaled to 1.33 times, but I plan on hitting him never until Spectral is dead, so not a big deal.  If you both let Sanctuary use the mines whenever he wants AND see them piercing SSL, uh, headache, I'll get back to you if anyone wants me to think on that case.

Nasty fight though, Photon Wings + Berserk Tail put a severe hurting on teams without Status Symbol Law.

Team Snowfire vs. Seymour Natus
The fact that Seymour's -ara spells spread as much possible is bad times for him here, and his status game is worthless.  Shouldn't be too hard to outslug by the time-honored "spam MT healing" strategy if the team can make it to this fight in remotely decent shape.

I'll get back to you on that second fight.  EDIT: 'k, done.  I think the second fight is doable.

[Magic Fanatic]

AMON (5 SP)                           | NEO AMON (6 SP)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Demon Rays:             no-class spd, linear, medium, 1hit, high, 36MP
Mind/BodyRevival (lv3): recovers full HP/SP and revives one KO-ed member, 48MP
The End (lv5):          no-class spd, circular, medium, 1hit, hard, 54MP
Not yet! (lv7):         restores small HP amount to all KO-ed allies, 56MP
Die, Scumbag! (lv9):    no-class spd, circular, large, 18hits, high, 88MP

Neo Amon only, but he does get it.  It is a tossup to whether it's late F5 or early F6, though.  I'm not entirely sure, myself.

[SnowFire]

Ah yeah, that.  I don't think it's actually that important, as noted ST revival should be fine.

[Dhyerwolf]

Right SSL! And Blind, which has gotten decent leverage so far. That said, Blind is attempt 2 here to me (60-64% hit rate)

Seymour initiative Shells
Jessica Accelerates
Seymour kills Angelo
Yuri revives Angelo
Wendigo kills Jessica
Guv and Yangus attack Seymour
Yuri revives Jessica
Seymour...kills Angelo

Yuri can double soon, but Seymour will always go before Angelo, so in that manner, Wendigo is kind of always there unblinded without eliminating Seymour. Wendigo can also be hit by Sleep, but I think that duration on that is for DQ 8 is mocked (is also turn 2). At least some MP needs to be spent. Depending Yuri may need to switch around for SP healing too.

On Sanctuary/Spectral, note that both do have counters. Spectral's is 72% (post SSL) ST physical that activates 100% of the time (which is painful. Killing basically anyone who has taken his physical and hasn't healed yet. Well, not transformed Yuri or Yangus), Sanctuary's is 31% (post SSL) MT Physical+Dispel that happens every 3-6 hits. Both these two have about 4 PC HP after the floor bonus and defenses, so it takes several rounds hacking at one.

I guess if Glyph Mine gets Aeons, I would see it go through SSL.

[SnowFire]

Fair enough.  The mines are kind of insane in that since there are only 6 hexes and now 5 characters, they're guaranteed to kill 1 person at least...   unless the hexes get scaled up to 10 hexes or something crazy.  Dunno.  (I don't normally assume that, say, fights between 5 dungeon enemies & 5 party members imply that WA4 hex effects must by definition be nailing extra people, so hard to figure out.)  That said, it's still irrelevant if Sanctuary is held to not placing mines until he's been hit; if Sanctuary is alone, then I can go nuts with buffing / tension and then slaughter him before the mines matter.  (If you do let Sanctuary go nuts with mines right away...  okay, never mind headache, I think I just lose period.  Even given a generous interp like "targeted characters must move or die next turn" that's still too many missed turns combined with Spectral keeping the rest of the team on the defensive.)

For Spectral's counter - okay, but that actually isn't a big deal.  It knocks off Accelerate which is annoying but that's it (since it's apparently specifically a dispel-Haste effect); otherwise, much like Sanctuary's normal damage, it gets dealt with by Guv Omnihealing aggressively.  I guess if you see Spectral Counter + Sanctuary damage as KO'ing someone if the turns line up wrong, my team can get around this lightly via some Tension usage - can't go too crazy or else Spectral Keeper will switch his OHKO target, but Tension pumps to reduce the raw number of attacks hitting Spectral before he dies can help here.

I'll take another look at the first fight with Seymour / Wendigo.  However...  how is Seymour 1 OHKO'ing Angelo?!  He's got either a bare 3HKO or a 4HKO to average to start out with...

[Dhyerwolf]

Oh, the thing about Seymour 1 that I don't have comprehension of...is that either he summons Anima and starts as normal, but then has effectively double the HP or he starts as if Anima just died. With Anima, the good news is that you null it's big trick. The bad news: HOLY CRAP THAT HP. It's like 7.5 (no scaling down for me as it's a solo boss in dungeon) before the 1.5 bonus, which makes seeing Oblivion much more likely.

Flip is I side when Seymour comes back, no Shell!

On a note, Guv's Omniheal really can't be spammed too much due to MP considerations.

Would see the number of spaces for Spectral going up. He needs to take hits to start the mines? Is that in the BMG because I didn't see it in the topic.

[SnowFire]

Dhyer: It's beneath the PC stats.  "AI notes: Only uses Glyph Mine after receiving 4 attacks, or if he sees an aeon summoned."  I personally would scale that down to 1 attack, which is still 1 too many.  (Also, I realized that Spectral's counters could also be scaled-up (if his HP gets scaled, at least, for sure, which I do), so he gets more counterattacks faster off only 1-2 attacks - but eh, I still think I can take him down reasonably fast when he can't use Protect.

As for Omniheal...  weird, I could have sworn OK's topic baked in the MP reductions - Elf, did you edit that?  Anyway, the current version of the topic (maybe I was just crazy) doesn't bake Guv's -50% MP cost, so he relaly has 18 MP Omniheals, so he has 7-8 or so of them, and can safely burn all his MP on that because Falcon Slash (best ST damage) and boomerang throws cost 0 MP.  Also Omniheal is overkill a lot of the time, if say Sanctuary's Berserk Tails are focusing on one person, Guv can just use Fullheal, and if Sanctuary is spreading out the Berserk Tails, he can wait a little before Omnihealing.   Fullheal is apparently a princely 3 MP, so I think Guv is okay...  although fair point that you'd see Anima as super-tanky.

[Dhyerwolf]

Yeah, looking at it, I'm sure that was the original way that topic was made. So yes, that certainly helps with MP woes a lot. Just...so much math that could break in so many directions (aka: dungeon's perennial problem).

I guess my big questions for this floor are:

--For Neph: Was Seymour implied to have Anima summoning when you thought this match up?
--So, realistically, what exactly are we looking at for Anima gaining that OD. Obviously it's boosting every turn (Although...hmm. 1.1 MT PC HP...so...Yuri should survive it, so maybe it doesn't matter anyways too much).
--More thoughts on Yuri having the MT revival? Can he get that right after Neo Amon (for someone who actually remembers) or does he realistically need to build up soul points for that?

I guess the AI section of the Spectral tells me Glyph does get Aeons, which is good, because the counters are then more avoidable (Definitely eliminates TDL from being used of course). That match is definitely looking better.

I guess my worries are now more about the first fight.

[SnowFire]

I think the Anima summoning is probably still fine, assuming Seymour works exactly as in the stat topic.  Step 1: Blind / survive Wendigo, and undo any damage he did before he was blinded.  Step 2: Buff up, chip Wendigo to 76% HP, and kill Wendigo.  Even if your Wendigo HP respect is very high, at worst he gets one OHKO off before dying from 5 + 4 = 9 potential rounds of offense, and then fix up whoever he hit if needed.  (Can't wait TOO long on doing this, DQ8 blind does wear off I believe, but shouldn't require more than a single round of buffing.)  Step 3: Seymour 1's pressure is bad, so Jessica can mostly undo whatever he tries with MP-less Caduceus while Guv & Yangus go Super-Saiyan.  Step 4: Knock Seymour into Anima range, then unleash high-Tension blasts to kill him quickly before Overdrive and before requiring too much real healing.  Seymour post-Anima is annoying but still ultimately handleable / blitzable.

I suspect MagicFanatic can answer the question on when Yuri gets MT revival better than me.  I know you can go to the Cathedral in France "early" and I think I went as soon as possible myself, but not sure that's really expected in a standard playthrough, and then I assume some Soul Energy would have to be burned anyway?  Dunno, it probably is borderline.

[Magic Fanatic]

Not Yet! is usable on two conditions:
1) Yuri is in his Neo Amon form, and
2) the Amon line is at least L7.

It is entirely possible to have Amon at L7 (or L9 even!) depending on how you spend/save/acquire Soul before unlocking him, and in that circumstance, Neo Amon would have his MT revival as soon as the form's gained.

Still Borderline, though.  IIRC the amount of Soul required to level up for ALL fusions is static, so Yuri needs 420 Soul specifically for the Amon line to get the MT Revival.

I really should replay SH2 again at some point, since I don't actually remember what's reasonable at this point for Soul acquisition/spending.

[Dhyerwolf]

Okay, lets go with pass with Snowfire. Oddly helped by the potential inclusion of Anima (again, while I'm not sure Neph intended that or not, I'm overall convinced enough).

[Pyro]

I will also vote Pass for Snowfire. I tend to view FFX boss HP as worse than others due to recharge times being so hugely important.

[Nephrite]

--For Neph: Was Seymour implied to have Anima summoning when you thought this match up?

Yes.