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Author Topic: FEDL 2, Week 3  (Read 1408 times)

Cmdr_King

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FEDL 2, Week 3
« on: December 18, 2013, 01:12:41 AM »
Godlike

Dragon (7) vs Athos (7)
Julia (4) vs Dheginsea (10)

Heavy

Ike (9) vs Zephiel (6)
Hector (7) vs Rutger (6)

Middle

Henry (13) vs Tiki (11)
Chrom (13) vs Vanessa (8)

Light

Serra (7) vs Lucius (7)
Heather (10) vs Innes (8)
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: FEDL 2, Week 3
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2013, 01:52:51 AM »
Dragon (7) vs Athos (7) - Park in front of him, equip Luna, watch the fireworks fly.

Ike (9) vs Zephiel (6) - um.
Hector (7) vs Rutger (6) - UM. Hector probably even 2HKOs him, but WTD unless he sacrifices the 2HKO (and even then, he's not looking that good for accuracy) and getting doubled? Yeesh.

Chrom (13) vs Vanessa (8) - Exalted Falchion begs for Chrom to never hit Vanessa ever and I don't think he'd OHKO with it either. And she likely two-rounds.

Serra (7) vs Lucius (7) - Squarely better outside evade, and they're not even that far apart in that regard (Lucius even has the edge on accuracy!).
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SnowFire

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Re: FEDL 2, Week 3
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2013, 04:02:36 AM »
Dragon (7) vs Athos (7)

Heavy

Hector (7) vs Rutger (6)
Uh, if I read the stat topic correctly, Hector's stats are taken with the Silver Axe, and Armads just makes his DEF insane - 15 points above average!  A .33 PCHP subtractive damage reduction!  Rutger only deals .35 PCHP damage pre-weapon triangle!  Armads has better HIT than a Silver Axe, too
EDIT: Light Brand is randomly awesome?  'k then.

Middle

Henry (13) vs Tiki (11) - munch munch
Chrom (13) vs Vanessa (8)
First, a rant on accuracy & evasion: either you should scale both or neither.  Scaling accuracy but then taking evasion literally results in a weird preference for evasion, where even characters from "high accuracy" games get owned by Lulu or Yuna evasion because their hit is only average in their home games, while Lulu / Yuna / Vanessa / etc. have similarly high base evasion yet evasion that isn't quite as impressive when compared to the evasion average.  I actually am fine with scaling neither usually, hence entire casts that can be inaccurate or entire casts that can be accurate, entire casts that can be evasive (FE!), etc., but there are times when scaling both is fair.  (Which Elf got at a bit earlier by reminding me that FE9/10 forging also raises the accuracy average when scaling both, or that Sothe's evade should be taken vs. average when facing a character like Garland in the Puny Cup since Garland's evade was calc'd vs. an average FF1 character.)

Anyway, Chrom wants you to "scale both" here, since he is a tad more accurate than average but still "only" 100% accuracy vs. endgame enemy evasion unpaired, while Vanessa is 50-53% evasion vs. an average of 25% evasion.  This means that Chrom's hit pre-WTD is more like 75%, which is a much better place to be.  Anyway...  I think Chrom can just sit back and heal his way out of trouble here.  If Vanessa throws Javelins, she runs out of Javelins before activating Pierce + crit I suspect, especially against Chrom's solidly good Luck.  If she engages, she gets...  hmm...  around .36 PCHP damage in if no crits, .72 PCHP with 1 crit, and Chrom is dead off two crits.  (Ignoring Pierce for now).  Chrom heals .34 PCHP off Exalted Falchion.  So Vanessa is waiting to trigger 2 crits total with a ~35% crit chance.  (Okay, or a crit + 2 pierces perhaps.)  Basically this probably happens by her third double if Chrom just spams healing.  So Chrom heals turn 1, and might heal turn 2 if Vanessa still hasn't landed a crit, and then engages once Vanessa has landed a single crit.  In the two turn case, that's counter+counter+regular attack.  I suspect Chrom can kill with Exalted Falchion + Forged Silver Lance for the final hit, too (especially if the Silver Lance is forged for accuracy).  So Chrom just needs to have 1/2 EF counters connect, or for Vanessa to have bad luck, or for Aether to kick in (chance independent of evasion, although the Aether hits can miss of course) vs. Vanessa's Pierce + Crit at the same time hype, or just plain getting 2 crits quickly.  So yeah, another close match, but I suspect Chrom has this for the third match in a row where I vote (possibly fruitlessly) against Vanessa.  Hey, they're all coinflips to a degree, so I can't complain too much.

Light

Serra (7) vs Lucius (7)
Heather (10) vs Innes (8)
Heather is pretty good for Light.  Check out these knives, they counter archers and Heather should probably 4HKO = 2HKO with the doubling.  Even if Innes manages the 2HKO and you see him as tanking 4x Heather knives somehow, they tie on threat range and he has an unlikely miss possibility while Heather doesn't.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 03:43:03 AM by SnowFire »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: FEDL 2, Week 3
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2013, 05:24:33 AM »
Godlike

Dragon (7) vs Athos (7): Yeah, Athos can legitimately take off half the dragon's HP before dying, without any help, in-game, so any reasonable amount of scaling tips this to him.

Heavy

Ike (9) vs Zephiel (6): Zephiel 3HKOs, while Ike... also probably 3HKOs? Zephiel durability not trivial to peg down but this sounds right. Of course Ike doubles, so that's kinda big! But accuracy/evade concerns favour Zephiel in a huge way, even adding 10 to the hit average OK posted to reflect supports, Zephiel still manages coinflip evade and Ike accuracy is unspecial. FE6 bosses kinda crazy about this, I forgot. Anyway Ike actually moves so I am fine with spotting him the first turn which means he has 5 chances to kill. Does he land 3 hits in 5 tries? I... uh... don't know? I could really go either way here. Maybe I should actually consider AETHER!!! for once? Since one Luna landing is really awful news for Zephiel of the 1/3 PCHP but awesome def. *shrug* I dunno I'll think about it.
Hector (7) vs Rutger (6): Okay let's assume Hector's def lets him win a slugfest against Silver Sword Rutger which I'm a bit skeptical of but defence scaling, whatevs. I don't think it matters? Rutger goes first, uses the Light Brand to double, 20 damage. Hector attacks, gets countered for some piddly damage. Repeat. Rutger kills on his third turn; doesn't quite kill with 6 Light Brand hits against Hector's above average HP but if you see him doing any damage at all he should close the deal. Can Hector win with two swings? I really doubt it, I dunno if he even 2HKOs and the evade is a definite factor.

Middle

Henry (13) vs Tiki (11): Oh wow, Tiki res is a thing. Yeah Nosferatu kinda fails it up against that.
Chrom (13) vs Vanessa (8): Vanessa evade after full WTD (both games use +/-15 hit) is really crazy. Healing strategy is definitely needed here... but Vanessa responds to that by just hurling Javelins and waiting for a crit + pierce or doublecrit (which should happen before a stock of 4 Javelins is depleted). So Chrom needs to equip a Javelin, I think. This actually isn't bad, it's a high 5HKO to Vanessa on a hit. And Javelins are more accurate than Falchion? Wow. Drops Vanessa evade to like 27%. So counter three times then poke with a slightly more damaging BRONZE LANCE for the kill, WTF is this. Three tries are needed for three counters to hit, so can Vanessa win in three attacks against healing? All she needs is one crit on a double with a Killer Lance, within 6 tries (by my math hit + crit is a ORKO)? Yeah, think she can manage that even with my crit disrespect. Good fight though!

I am amused that, even if Chrom does win this week, Exalted Falchion isn't a reason, ending the streak of Exalted Falchion wins regardless. High-hit lances are definitely the way to go against Vanessa, having good accuracy and no WTD is way too important.

Light

Serra (7) vs Lucius (7): Hooray.
Heather (10) vs Innes (8): Yeah Heather just manages the 2RKO and isn't 2HKOed herself, and seeing as she enjoys a counter edge that makes this pretty open-and-shut.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 04:33:37 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Random Consonant

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Re: FEDL 2, Week 3
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2013, 06:40:49 AM »
Godlike

Dragon (7) vs Athos (7) - Well this is familiar.
Julia (4) vs Dheginsea (10) - Hm.  Unlike Sety, Julia isn't OHKO'd.  Dheggy has a lot of RES but at the same time Julia's attack power is very high... *mathmathmath* hmmmm, against roughly equivalent attack power I *think* he reduces that to about 35% of its normal damage?  Of course Julia can't get Adept procs so she needs to kill in three hits.... which looks like that would be a no from where I'm sitting.

Heavy

Ike (9) vs Zephiel (6)
Hector (7) vs Rutger (6) - Eh sure, light brand hype

Middle

Henry (13) vs Tiki (11) - I think?  Tiki11 has an awful lot of RES.
Chrom (13) vs Vanessa (8)

Light

Serra (7) vs Lucius (7)
Heather (10) vs Innes (8) - She two-rounds his suspect durability, he 3HKOs hers and is triggering counters, to say nothing of the difference in evasion.

Cmdr_King

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Re: FEDL 2, Week 3
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2013, 08:59:48 AM »
Godlike

Dragon (7) vs Athos (7)
Julia (4) vs Dheginsea (10)

Heavy

Ike (9) vs Zephiel (6)
Hector (7) vs Rutger (6)

Middle

Henry (13) vs Tiki (11)
Chrom (13) vs Vanessa (8)- Chrom's got pretty decent luck (like +5 on average), which feels like it tips Vanessa's crit timing just barely in his favor?  Although I suppose if that's true she might be better off running Silver and hoping Pierce+Physical kills instead.  Hum.  Guess she has enough crit still to pull it off.

Light

Serra (7) vs Lucius (7)
Heather (10) vs Innes (8)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 06:24:15 PM by Cmdr_King »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: FEDL 2, Week 3
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2013, 04:03:14 PM »
Chrom's luck reduces Vanessa's crit from 42 to 37, not really that big a deal. She should still critical at least once in six chances unless you're notably harsher to crits than I am (in which case, wow).

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Cmdr_King

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Re: FEDL 2, Week 3
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2013, 06:22:09 PM »
While in DL matches I'm inclined to take FE PCs against average enemy luck (same as for judging their hit or evade), for FEDL it seems proper to compare them to the higher PC numbers.  +5 on FE8 luck would be... 23, so final crit rate of 20.  Mmm, still should get one crit in three turns that way.  Thought it was a bit lower.
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MalcolmMasher

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Re: FEDL 2, Week 3
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2013, 06:40:39 AM »
Godlike

Dragon (7) vs Athos (7)

Heavy

Ike (9) vs Zephiel (6) - Both 3HKO, but Ike doubles and has Aether. Zephiel has... a FE6 Throne. Sure, I'll buy it. FE6 needs to tone down the furniture a tad.
Hector (7) vs Rutger (6) - Armads Hector misses the 2HKO. I do see Rutger's Light Brand melee as tinking, but FE6 also has buyable Armorslayers. Granted, FE7 has buyable Swordreavers, but Armorslayers are notably less offensive. So it goes.
 
Middle

Henry (13) vs Tiki (11) - Silly Henry, you need Luna for dragons.
Chrom (13) vs Vanessa (8) - In the war of Killer crits and Pierce versus spammable healing and Aether counters, I know which tactic I'm willing to coast on in-game.

Light

Serra (7) vs Lucius (7)
Heather (10) vs Innes (8) - Innes can use a Longbow to get first strike and bypass counters. Pity he has no hope of using it to, you know, win

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Re: FEDL 2, Week 3
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2013, 06:41:40 PM »
Godlike

Dragon (7) vs Athos (7) - We're giving him Luna?  Well then.


Light

Serra (7) vs Lucius (7) - Frankly, I'm surprised that an intentionally terrible nomination for Light managed to somehow get to the semifinals.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: FEDL 2, Week 3
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2013, 10:06:42 PM »
Chrom (13) vs Vanessa (8)
First, a rant on accuracy & evasion: either you should scale both or neither.  Scaling accuracy but then taking evasion literally results in a weird preference for evasion, where even characters from "high accuracy" games get owned by Lulu or Yuna evasion because their hit is only average in their home games, while Lulu / Yuna / Vanessa / etc. have similarly high base evasion yet evasion that isn't quite as impressive when compared to the evasion average.  I actually am fine with scaling neither usually, hence entire casts that can be inaccurate or entire casts that can be accurate, entire casts that can be evasive (FE!), etc., but there are times when scaling both is fair.  (Which Elf got at a bit earlier by reminding me that FE9/10 forging also raises the accuracy average when scaling both, or that Sothe's evade should be taken vs. average when facing a character like Garland in the Puny Cup since Garland's evade was calc'd vs. an average FF1 character.)

You don't need to scale accuracy though unless it's hitting above 100%; it's already scaled into damage. If someone is 120% accuracy and the average is 120% accuracy though, they don't get any extra credit. That's in game enemies sucking more than them being good. So no need to scale something like Suikoden 3 accuracy though.
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Cmdr_King

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Re: FEDL 2, Week 3
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2013, 04:41:01 AM »
Godlike

Dragon (7) vs Athos (7)- iiiiiii
Julia (4) vs Dheginsea (10)- ii

Heavy

Ike (9)- i vs Zephiel (6)- i  (RANDOM.org)
Hector (7) vs Rutger (6)- iiiiii

Middle

Henry (13) vs Tiki (11)- iiiii
Chrom (13)- ii vs Vanessa (8)- iiii

Light

Serra (7) vs Lucius (7)- iiiiiii
Heather (10)- iiiii vs Innes (8)
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<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.