Author Topic: Final Fantasy Class Warfare Team Tourney, Semifinals & Finals  (Read 1055 times)

SnowFire

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Final Fantasy Class Warfare Team Tourney, Semifinals & Finals
« on: December 29, 2013, 05:44:08 AM »
Results:
Knights vs. Thieves
Samurai vs. Dark Knights (5-1)

Monsters vs. Time Mages (2-5)
Summoners vs. White Mages

In the interests of avoiding a finals topic next week with just a single match in it, I'm throwing the remaining 4 entries in a pool.  We've been able to handle 8-10 matches in the early weeks; 6 matches should not be too bad for the apocalyptic final showdown.  Our esteemed finalists:

Thieves (Locke, FFT Thief [female], Zidane, Rikku*)
Samurai (FF5 Samurai, Cyan, FFT Samurai [male], Auron)
Time Mages (FF5 Time Mage**, FFT Time Mage [female], Tidus)
Summoners (Rydia, FF5 Summoner, FFT Summoner [female], Garnet)
* Rikku: Has FFX Common Steals, see Dungeon list from F1-F7
** Time Mage: No Reset.


Nice job on the Samurai fighting their way out despite a round 1 loss.  It's the Bushido spirit or something.

Thieves vs. Samurai
Time Mages vs. Summoners

Thieves vs. Time Mages
Thieves vs. Summoners
Samurai vs. Time Mages
Samurai vs. Summoners

Bonus match!
Summoners vs. Yuna

Pyro

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Re: Final Fantasy Class Warfare Team Tourney, Semifinals & Finals
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2013, 03:10:01 PM »
Thieves vs. Samurai: Can Auron and FF5 Samurai kill Rikku? Probably not since her durability is just about average. So victory to the Thieves.
Time Mages vs. Summoners: With no fear of limits, the Init Hasting/Slowing/MEteors/strategy works just fine.
Thieves vs. Time Mages: Init Slowing allows Time Mages to ply a status or something horrible against Rikku/Zidane, which does the trick.
Thieves vs. Summoners: Rikku does status on the enemy team?
Samurai vs. Time Mages: Auron can do some damage by Magic Breaking FF5 Time Mage, but that will leave FFT and Tidus to tear stuff up. Not sure about this one admittedly.
Samurai vs. Summoners: Giltoss does some damage and may KO Rydia, but I think the summoners just blow them up after that.

Bonus match!
Summoners vs. Yuna: Magus sisters?

Nephrite

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Re: Final Fantasy Class Warfare Team Tourney, Semifinals & Finals
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2013, 06:08:37 PM »
Do these matches change significantly if Tidus is not allowed the Sonic Steel? I feel like they probably do.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Final Fantasy Class Warfare Team Tourney, Semifinals & Finals
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2013, 06:18:58 PM »
Likely, but what is the rationale for not allowing a storebought weapon? I think several things which the other teams are assumed to have (Rikku's items, which need to be stolen; FF5's Masamune, which is one per game also usable by Freelancer) are more questionable.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Nephrite

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Re: Final Fantasy Class Warfare Team Tourney, Semifinals & Finals
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2013, 06:44:07 PM »
Absolutely nothing beyond the fact that I think it's very overpowering in a setting like this. I most certainly do not expect anyone else to have a view even remotely similar to mine, so it's more of a curiosity.

SnowFire

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Re: Final Fantasy Class Warfare Team Tourney, Semifinals & Finals
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2013, 07:09:40 PM »
Neph: I am totally cool with the occasional "okay this is totally busted I'm figuring out some excuse to ignore it" interp approach myself, if done sparingly.

Thieves vs. Samurai - I think you read the FFX stat topic wrong, Pyro - Rikku's defense is slightly below average, not that it matters because Auron must open Armor Break anyway (slightly more damage on AB?).  Also Protect Girls only triggers for allies with <50% HP apparently so that's out.  Anyway Armor Break is allegedly only a +20% boost, but Armor counts 3 times as much according to Pyro's numbers, so call it a +60% boost.  That comes out to .90 PCHP.  Does Auron's Armor Break manage .10 PCHP of damage?  Even with a higher damage average, sure, so Rikku is down.  Sam aren't out of the woods, though!  Thief takes a shot at Steal Heart, let's assume it misses.  Zidane Minis FF5 Sam (if it doesn't get Blade Grasp'd).  Cyan hits someone for terrible damage with Dispatch (but everyone is at low HP due to Gil Toss + generally crappy defense).  Hmm...  can FFT Sam kill someone with an attack?  Yeah, his damage is fine.  Okay so no Mini-for-everyone hype then.  So yeah, nm, Thieves need Steal Heart to be turn 1 and FF5 Sam to not be able to evade Soul Blade to have a chance (but if it DOES hit it's potentially hilarious, knocking say FFT or FF5 Sam out of confusion is hard.)
Time Mages vs. Summoners - Kaboom.

Thieves vs. Time Mages - Yah, if nothing else Quick / Stop / Stop on the relevant threats, although just exploding everything probably works too.
Thieves vs. Summoners - How good is Rikku's MT status?  I guess there's Petrify Grenade, but that can be blocked by some...  maybe not enough.  Even if she only uses ST status though, Zidane gets to potentially mess with the SUmmoners here too, so seems like an uphill battle.
Samurai vs. Time Mages - Just kill FF5 TM off the initiative Auron->FF5 Sam, she's more frail than Rikku.  Tidus can be annoying but he & FFT TM are not soloing, especially with charge times enforced.  Tidus himself cries about Blade Grasp from FF5/FFT Sams.
Samurai vs. Summoners - Yeah Auron + FF5 Sam can kill one summoner, then get dunked by 3x MT damage.  If Rydia just naturally gets OHKO'd and Auron can set up a 2nd death, then MAYBE, but eh, there's still FF5 Phoenix to worry about and other such things, so the Sam aren't even out of the woods if that happens.

Summoners vs. Yuna
Yeah, if Yuna wins, it's due to the Magus Sisters - Anima can drain lots of MP off forcing them to spam Phoenix and/or Golem, and Valefor might have some kind of delay game, but it's the MS that are the real power here.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 07:26:21 PM by SnowFire »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Final Fantasy Class Warfare Team Tourney, Semifinals & Finals
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2013, 07:11:38 PM »
Thieves vs. Samurai: Yeah, Auron + Samurai do about 93% to average HP which Rikku is. So she's getting a turn. Samurais can actually block status somewhat well but Petrify Grenade still kills FF5 at minimum, and if the entire rest of the team is blocking petrify she'll use Sleep Powder instead while Zidane uses... actually he doesn't have a good option against the sleep-immune Samurai. Doom still gives her another turn to launch a second, fatal Zeninage, Silence/Mini don't matter... actually never mind Rikku surely laps Samurai thanks to recharge time and gets off a second move and hits her with petrify. EDIT: Though taking Zeninage as 3x def instead of 2x like I've been doing would flip this the other way, see Snowfire.
Time Mages vs. Summoners: Two of the Summoners can block slow, and that includes FF5... but yeah Haste still matters a lot and if FF5's first turn is Slowga + Graviga that should be enough for FFT or Tidus to kill off the offenders.

Thieves vs. Time Mages: The two thieves which really matter can be hit by Slow, so that gives TMs a lot of time to do whatever nasty things. Rikku certainly isn't getting a turn, I doubt Zidane will either and even if he does, one Zidane turn isn't decisive anyhow.
Thieves vs. Summoners: Petrify Grenade gets everyone except FFT and Rydia, Zidane puts Rydia to sleep. FFT's best bet is probably to wake Rydia up and hope she lives long enough for a status move on Rikku like Death or whatever. Let's say she does. The other two thieves can probably two-round FFT summoner, so they do that, and Zidane then puts Rydia to sleep again, and victory is still collected.
Samurai vs. Time Mages: EDIT: Oh. Hmm, right, Tidus can't actually stop FF5 Samurai + Auron from killing FF5 TM, Delay Attack shouldn't work on someone who is getting a simultaneous turn and FF5's evade + Blade Grasp means that isn't working either. Hastega anyway, drop a space rock... yeah not enough happening here, since FF5 CAN NOT get another turn and almost certainly will due to the anti-physical things + the immunity to slow/stop.
Samurai vs. Summoners: Summoners are kinda frail which makes Zeninage scary... but most of the Summoners are low-HP rather than low-Def so they aren't being MT KOed or anything, and two of the samurais are too slow. FF5 Summoner absolutely must die, and I think she does, but that leaves a nasty MT blitz from Rydia/Garnet/FFT.

Summoners vs. Yuna: Yuna's big weakness here is the lack of MT. She can summon Anima and try to gun down the Summoners one-by-one, but Garnet and FF5 both have revival, so that won't work. (Phoenix is pricy, but three uses is enough). To make matters worse the two non-reviving summoners are the ones with really high damage so I imagine they can do the needed damage (which admittedly is a lot) in the three rounds before Phoenix runs out. As soon as they down an aeon they can win because Rydia and FF5 both have turn-1 status, and since they're ATB they can unquestionably wait for right after FFT or Garnet to do the fatal blow if needed.

That leaves the Magus Sisters. And while they could win... well. Here's the thing. FF5 Odin doesn't check ID immunity, it checks gravity immunity. While I'm not sure how much I would hype that in general, I am quite fine with doing it here, since gravity is a specific weakness the aeons have; there's little question that FF5 Odin would work on them as such. And since only one Magus Sister acts upon being summoned, and is the one who most often behaves badly, and even if she attacks only has a 1/4 chance to hit FF5... yeah an Odin can probably cut the magus sisters apart, leaving Rydia to take out Yuna, or just combined damage from Garnet + FFT.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 07:16:56 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Random Consonant

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Re: Final Fantasy Class Warfare Team Tourney, Semifinals & Finals
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2013, 11:29:31 PM »
Thieves vs. Samurai
Time Mages vs. Summoners

Thieves vs. Time Mages
Thieves vs. Summoners
Samurai vs. Time Mages
Samurai vs. Summoners

Bonus match!
Summoners vs. Yuna - only one that I care enough to comment on.  The aeon conga doesn't really have much in the way of MT and scaling them down in some matter surely puts this fairly decisively in Team Not!Yuna's favor, which is an interp that I do at least consider.

DragonKnight Zero

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Re: Final Fantasy Class Warfare Team Tourney, Semifinals & Finals
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2013, 05:40:18 AM »
Thieves vs. Samurai: Soul Blade always hits unless target has total immunity to status.  Steal Heart has a 55% chance and ignores evasion so I see it hitting first turn.  What I don't see is anyone worth using it on as Faris is in fact a woman and immune and the others have status blocker options.  Maybe not Auron but he's slow and his effective allies are evasive monsters.  Abstain for now.
Time Mages vs. Summoners: For variety, I'll say Void hits and Tidus solos.

Thieves vs. Time Mages: Sure, speed tricks and falling rocks.  Zidane probably lives through the assault but even Mini on Tidus isn't enough to win solo.
Thieves vs. Summoners
Samurai vs. Time Mages: Samurai initiative to off Krile.  Thinking Faris lives long enough to wreck the other side with money.  Tidus might blitz her out before her second turn except it leaves FFT Samurai free to Kiyomori his side and Cyan might become durable enough to charge something nasty.
Samurai vs. Summoners: Bahamut blitz will do the trick

SnowFire

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Re: Final Fantasy Class Warfare Team Tourney, Semifinals & Finals
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2014, 01:21:26 AM »
Results!

Thieves vs. Samurai (3-1)
Time Mages vs. Summoners

** Thieves vs. Time Mages
Thieves vs. Summoners
Samurai vs. Time Mages (4-1)
Samurai vs. Summoners

Bonus match!
Summoners vs. Yuna (3-1)

Records in the pods:
Time Mages (2-1)
Thieves (2-1)
Samurai (1-2)
Summoners (1-2)

Time Magepremacy, as predicted, despite the fact it was the only team down a member.  Well, there you have it, the only class you'll ever need in Final Fantasies, we can retire the rest.  A near thing though, we almost declared Thief SCC the easiest.