2020 Miscellaneous Links: Untitled Moose Game

[Luther Lansfeld]

[SnowFire]

Q: Where is all the dark matter in the universe?
Possible A: In the black holes?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/05/25/could-black-holes-be-the-dark-matter-everyone-has-been-looking-for/

This seems almost too obvious...  I'm suspcious, makes too much sense.

[dunie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WUdQpuVRtw

Friend made me watch this vid on whitewashing in films and it focuses on Scarlett Johannson in Ghost in the Shell.

I'm of the conservative position that films should try to be as true to book/comic characters and their backgrounds (not just race) as possible. When production deviates just for big names, I stop caring about the film entirely, because, snob. Yeah yeah, actors play roles - I get it - but structural racism is totally more noticeable and up for grabs in convos when that's the tried and true go-to answer for casting.

[Grefter]

I personally am way more in favour of adapting the story to the medium and generally am okay to happy with an adaptation that strays from to source material for the sake of the adaptation (like I mostly like the changes to V for Vendetta and Watchmen, I actively appreciate that Game of Thrones is different than the books).

With that said white people aren't an intrinsic thing of cinema.  Even if you want to create an artificial divide between western/Hollywood cinema and the rest of the world.

[Anthony Edward Stark]

The changes to Watchmen are okay? Fucking fight me.  Zack Snyder proves he missed the entire fucking point like two minutes into the movie.

[Grefter]

Yeah but that opening though! 

Execution is pretty bad yeah at the end, but I more mean things that get changed like there is no pirate comics so focused on.  There is trashy fight scenes.  Even the change of the ending.  I am kind of okay with that happening as a concept.

Watchmen as a comic book doesn't work great as a movie. It is such a great comic book in part because of masterful execution of the medium itself.  The film certainly is not that same level of quality and I think you needed even more drastic changes to make it of remotely similar quality.

I just mostly like what they tried.  Trashy fight scenes and flameboner not so much.

[Hunter Sopko]

https://twitter.com/paprbckparadise

This is pretty fucking fantastic.

FUCKING RUN THE SUN JUST EXPLODED

[Anthony Edward Stark]

Yeah but that opening though! 

Execution is pretty bad yeah at the end, but I more mean things that get changed like there is no pirate comics so focused on.  There is trashy fight scenes.  Even the change of the ending.  I am kind of okay with that happening as a concept.

Watchmen as a comic book doesn't work great as a movie. It is such a great comic book in part because of masterful execution of the medium itself.  The film certainly is not that same level of quality and I think you needed even more drastic changes to make it of remotely similar quality.

I just mostly like what they tried.  Trashy fight scenes and flameboner not so much.

The opening is where Zack Snyder tells us he doesn't get it.  In the comics, the capes show up first and criminals dress up second.  This is key to the message.  In the movie intro, a cape is second.  This inverts the whole point of it, rendering it meaningless.  It's just like how when Dan and Laurie fuck, they're no longer sort of pasty, dumpy middle-aged dudes but total hardbodies.  Snyder slavishly recreates the imagery without understanding WHY it's important.

[dunie]

With that said white people aren't an intrinsic thing of cinema.  Even if you want to create an artificial divide between western/Hollywood cinema and the rest of the world.

True, but some folk would argue that they are the normative feature in western films. I mean, we do see so-called white folk taking up roles of so-called non-white folk without much to say vice versa. And then some would say that the first is the majority of the US and it makes more sense, statistically probabilities and all, for them to get positions. But it is problematic layering.

I had tweeted about whitewashing after learning about Constance Wu's remarks, and my friend shared the video then.  The guy in that vid did say something tenuous, that Japanese are ok with it (implied scapegoat and diversion), but that doesn't matter as actors in the US are trying to critique their market economy for jobs.   

You say something cool about filmmaking. I'd be okay with forms following the functions of mediums, but I'm also fairly sour at how Hollywood sucks the life out of, and wrings dry only to reuse and excessive chaffing, things comic books/books. That's typically Hollywood, though, right? I mean, original screenplays and experimental film is just my mood, now. Hollywood adaptations tend to be less on form and more on the medium as the selling point.

I did see Watchmen without ever reading the comic and thought the film was complete trash.

[Grefter]

Re: Watchmen for how it is as an adaptation you can see Rob.  It is faithful to some surface points and the changes some things to fit a movie and changes others to fit Snyder's politics.  (Rorschach is not the goddamned hero, Nite Owl kind of is but as a washed up 40 year old.)

It shifts a lot of focuses and strips out huge swaths of the really interesting world building that helps provide context in the Comic on the altar of making a movie rather than a 10 hour long mini series with fucked up pacing.  That's the part I am okay with.


I think the draining of a lot of the core concept is a thing that is mostly an inherent risk of an adaptation, I mean that is in part hugely what Adaptation the movie is about, one of the great writers of the last few decades of cinema being frustrated and unable to adapt something faithfully (and it is a stronger movie for being weird and experimental as fuck and kind of giving up a little bit).


At the end of the day it just comes down to a preference of outcome I guess?  Even for things I am a fan of I prefer a good <adapted work>  that is a bad adaptation than a good adaptation that is a bad <adapted work>.  Those are the ones that seem to hang around in the cultural memory.

Like to go back to comics.  I really dug the previous Superman reboot as an adaptation, but it was weak as a movie.  I thought it was super on point and a good direction to go.  All anyone remembers from that movie now is Kevin Spacey screaming WRONG!

[Cmdr_King]

Y'know, I'm not even sure how to feel about Watchmen these days.  Like... it's slavishly devoted to the text but manages to come to a lot of completely opposite conclusions from it (main example: Rorschach's moral absolutism has a lot of nobility to it in the movie, where... Moore generally tends to be dismissive of the character now, but I think that's bitterness.  It's really more a tragedy: he wants to be good and do good, but he's lost the sense of nuance that lets him function as a hero).  But holy shit that opening montage captures the feel of the book in a way I didn't think, going into the movie, was going to be possible.  So I'm inclined to forgive a lot, but probably shouldn't, y'know?

Really Snyder's frustrating as hell about that in general.  Man's a brilliant cinematographer but has like none of the other tools in a director's box.

[Captain K]

Enjoyed the graphic novel, enjoyed the movie.  *shrug*

[dunie]

https://m.mic.com/articles/144228/echoes-exposed-the-secret-symbol-neo-nazis-use-to-target-jews-online#.tNmkqhMQx

[Meeplelard]

Well, it's finally happening:

http://www.siliconera.com/2016/06/06/final-fantasy-xii-zodiac-age-announced-playstation-4/

Talked about it a while back, finally confirmation.  I'm personally interested, not sure about most of you but hey.

Have to wonder if the 2017 thing was purposely holding off to beef up the 30th anniversary, or if legitimately is going to take that long.

[NotMiki]

If I had to guess, they probably have a single team doing PC/PS4 rereleases, and did them from most to least popular.

For FF12, I may pick it up.  I like the game and I don't see the faults in it that others do.  But that's highly dependent on what kind of QOL features we see.

[Meeplelard]

Don't think popularity enters into it.  They're clearly doing it because FF10 HD was very successful, and after FF10(-2) HD came out, there was clear demand for FF12 HD to come out, especially since if FF10 HD was based off the International version, it'd mean a chance to get a localized version of IZJS, which is exactly what's happening.

Smaller team seems like a sure thing granted.  Either way, it does sound like they're putting actual effort into this, just like they did FF10 HD, and hey, at least they have ACTUAL FOOTAGE AND A TRAILER OF THE GAME when the announced this one, FF10 HD they went "yeah, it's happening" and between saying that and showing us footage, they announced KH 1.5 HD and released that.  TO BE FAIR, when they finally did start showing us stuff from FF10 HD, they had a 'surprise, it's a compilation, with FF10-2 HD!', so they made the wait seem more reasonable since 2 games + bonus stuff instead of one (ok, KH 1.5 was 2 games and cutscenes from a 3rd, but let's not pretend that Re:Chain of Memories is anywhere near as big as FF10-2.)


Regarding QoL features?  There are a bunch mentioned here:

http://gematsu.com/2016/06/final-fantasy-xii-zodiac-age-announced-ps4

What I'm hoping for is an option to play Classic License Board vs. Zodiac License Board.  I'm aware most people prefer the latter, but it shouldn't be hard to implement both with an option when you start the game, and there are probably a non-negligible amount of people out there who prefer the original.  This is a simple case of "options are good!" and less me trying to claim one is better than the other.

[Captain K]

I'm mildly interested in this.  Never played the original, but FFRK made it sound interesting.  (Yes I'm aware that FF12 with FF6 battle system is probably better than FF12 with FF12 battle system)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

If that comes out to Steam, I'd actually consider playing it. Never felt the original FF12, International sounded mildly neat but not worth the effort. A HD remake based off International wouldn't go amiss.

[Meeplelard]

If the game is successful on PS4, which I can't imagine it won't be, a Steam version seems inevitable.  Just a question of "how long will it take?"

[NotMiki]

Don't think popularity enters into it.  They're clearly doing it because FF10 HD was very successful

Well...I mean they started with FFX, moved on to KH and KH2, then FF9, and now FF12?  I think I can see a trajectory here...

[Meeplelard]

Don't think popularity enters into it.  They're clearly doing it because FF10 HD was very successful

Well...I mean they started with FFX, moved on to KH and KH2, then FF9, and now FF12?  I think I can see a trajectory here...

Except that KH1 was finished before FF10, and FF9 was likely done by a different team entirely, namely the guys who worked on FF7/8 Steam, which is quite the same (FF10 and 10-2 were both special versions of the game never released stateside, just like FF12 is getting; FF9 is the same exact game with some upscaled polygons, and some little features like Fast Forward mode)

Plus it doesn't account for Type-0 in the mix, which is clearly way less popular than all of those. 

I think you're finding a connection that isn't there.  Especially since FF10 and FF10-2 are the only games in a comparable position to FF12, namely PS2 games that have versions released only in Japan, and games that have never had legitimate re-releases, making it impossible for anyone to play those games on more modern consoles.  FF9 at very least has had a PSN version, for example, so people with PSPs, Vitas, and PS3s could play it, and FF9's remastery isn't anywhere near as intensive as what FF10 got.

Case in point, FF10 got an entirely re-mastered soundtrack, and FF12 is getting the same treatment.  FF7-9 notably did not get this.

So I don't think "popularity" had anything to do with it.  I'm pretty sure FF12's remastery is a result of FF10(-2) HD's success, since it's the only game that was in a comparable situation, and there is very clearly demand for it, as well the game is very easy to market in the west by saying "Never before released IZJS version!" which, not shockingly, they're actually taking advantage of.

[Grefter]

Considering it was the least popular of the 3D titles to use fully modeled environments rather than models on a 2D backdrop, yeah I am more with Jim on this one with it being the last thing in the bag of tricks.  I mean the next thing to do after that is FF14 on PS4 which I guarantee some of the completion would have already had in the oven.

[Anthony Edward Stark]

Considering it was the least popular of the 3D titles to use fully modeled environments rather than models on a 2D backdrop, yeah I am more with Jim on this one with it being the last thing in the bag of tricks.  I mean the next thing to do after that is FF14 on PS4 which I guarantee some of the completion would have already had in the oven.

Isn't FF14 on PS4? I know their world architecture needed to be gimped because it's on PS3 but I could swear it was on modern console hardware also.

[dunie]

Here I thought FFZA was an offshoot or something and I was really geeked up because I loved FF12. Remasters, ports, blah blah blah, I stopped buying tricks like this when Chrono Trigger got on the PSX and it is a waste of my money.

I need to get FF14; I also need a WiiU for Xenoblade X and making a black female avatar, because.

Dammit.

[Sierra]

Considering it was the least popular of the 3D titles to use fully modeled environments rather than models on a 2D backdrop, yeah I am more with Jim on this one with it being the last thing in the bag of tricks.  I mean the next thing to do after that is FF14 on PS4 which I guarantee some of the completion would have already had in the oven.

Isn't FF14 on PS4? I know their world architecture needed to be gimped because it's on PS3 but I could swear it was on modern console hardware also.

It is indeed, because this is how I play it.