Author Topic: 2020 Miscellaneous Links: Untitled Moose Game  (Read 170767 times)

Cotigo

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #925 on: December 16, 2015, 02:01:44 AM »
Meh, I've come to conclude that the "Its their culture, it is not our place to critique it" line is a load of horseshit. There's something to be said for not just going on and expecting everyone in the world to pick up American values, but all too often this talking point is used to insulate people from being criticized for their shitty, terrible behavior. "Its just their culture, just go with it" is ultimately very intellectually lazy.

Even if this is a take on a Korean folk tale (which it may well be! I do not know how to Korea), translating it without comment would be an implicit endorsement of the sort of morality of the folk tale on the part of the translators, because not saying anything is and of itself a speech act, so good for the translators on changing it.

Tangentially, to show how insidious the "It's just their culture" line can be, a couple years ago during the training seminar for the JET program, a workshop on how to act in the Japanese workplace advised female JETs who experienced sexual harassment to not report the incident and to remember that they are guests in this country and that this behavior is considered acceptable in Japan. Granted, this is an extreme example and there was some backlash because of the incident, but regardless, it highlights just how little water the "we should respect their culture" argument holds sometimes.

NotMiki

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #926 on: December 16, 2015, 03:59:03 AM »
Yeah, I get that.  I personally find it frustrating when changes are made to a game that materially alter the meaning of what is going on, but that's just a gripe from an old game snob.  Seeing as games are marketed towards kids I approve of light editorial changes to smooth over inappropriate stuff.
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Anthony Edward Stark

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #927 on: December 16, 2015, 05:07:30 AM »
Meh, I've come to conclude that the "Its their culture, it is not our place to critique it" line is a load of horseshit. There's something to be said for not just going on and expecting everyone in the world to pick up American values, but all too often this talking point is used to insulate people from being criticized for their shitty, terrible behavior. "Its just their culture, just go with it" is ultimately very intellectually lazy.

It's also an anthropological maxim taken wholly out of context.  It's fine if you are there for an academic purpose, like cataloging a group of people and how they live.  It's quite another if you are just a person in the world interacting with this.  We're meant to make decisions about things, that's why it's not legal for Colonel Sanders to own all those black people anymore.

Grefter

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #928 on: December 16, 2015, 05:13:48 AM »
Not to be full corporate shilly libertarian, but like

It is also really flat criticism in the context of a business licensing the use of someone's IP to localise into a profitable product.  Both sides here will have this contracted out and discussed.  If the localiser changes it to be more relevant and marketable then so be it.
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AndrewRogue

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #929 on: December 16, 2015, 10:32:00 PM »
https://storify.com/jasperrolls/the-silent-hill-wiki-circumcision-meltdown-of-2015

Complete meltdown on the Silent Hill wiki.

I... suppose this makes sense somehow.

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #930 on: December 16, 2015, 10:47:49 PM »
https://storify.com/jasperrolls/the-silent-hill-wiki-circumcision-meltdown-of-2015

Complete meltdown on the Silent Hill wiki.

I... suppose this makes sense somehow.

Of course it does.

Silent Hill had an editor, editors make cuts. Just like circumcision.

Grefter

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #931 on: December 16, 2015, 11:08:40 PM »
THEY ARE CENSORING PENISES
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
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Captain K

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #932 on: December 17, 2015, 12:14:38 AM »
Fucking Illuminati.

NotMiki

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #933 on: December 17, 2015, 01:10:34 AM »
Not to be full corporate shilly libertarian, but like

It is also really flat criticism in the context of a business licensing the use of someone's IP to localise into a profitable product.  Both sides here will have this contracted out and discussed.  If the localiser changes it to be more relevant and marketable then so be it.

I don't really agree.  People advocating a position are trying to get what they want, be it uncensored creepazoid sidequests or keeping DoA Xtreem Titties 3 off the shelves.  They're advancing their agendas by putting pressure on businesses.  If there is anything remotely sacrosanct about businesses trying to make money, that same level of respect should be afforded to advocacy.
Rocky: you do know what an A-bomb is, right?
Bullwinkle: A-bomb is what some people call our show!
Rocky: I don't think that's very funny...
Bullwinkle: Neither do they, apparently!

SnowFire

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #934 on: December 17, 2015, 01:24:56 AM »
https://storify.com/jasperrolls/the-silent-hill-wiki-circumcision-meltdown-of-2015

Complete meltdown on the Silent Hill wiki.

I... suppose this makes sense somehow.

Eh.  I'm jaded from Wikipedia experience.  He should be quietly removed by Wikia management once they see this but I wouldn't get too into the shame train.  The dude is probably mentally ill, block & move on.  It got more exciting than it 'should' have been since he was apparently a super-admin or something before his breakdown, but in its own weird way that is probably healthier than low-level craziness that isn't enough to get blocked but is enough to make life horrible for other editors.

Grefter

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #935 on: December 17, 2015, 06:55:41 AM »
Yeah Jim I am all for campaigning for what you want.  You can not buy it or whatever.  You just don't get to call it zomgcensorshipRIPfrreeeeeeesppeeeeeech and fight the man.
NO MORE POKEMON - Meeplelard.
The king perfect of the DL is and always will be Excal. - Superaielman
Don't worry, just jam it in anyway. - SirAlex
Gravellers are like, G-Unit - Trancey.

AndrewRogue

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #936 on: December 17, 2015, 05:41:08 PM »
Snow: Yeah, well aware, hence this being Misc Link instead of IotD. It is just a weird place and presentation for the meltdown.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 05:43:12 PM by AndrewRogue »

AndrewRogue

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #937 on: December 17, 2015, 10:56:37 PM »
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-crime-shkreli-idUSKBN0U01IM20151217

Martin Shkreli (the guy who did the drug price raising controversy recently) arrested for fraud. I'll join in the amused dogpiling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxPWYpcVI1c (Appropriate music choice for reading the article.)

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #938 on: December 18, 2015, 04:24:28 AM »
So...there's a decent chance that Jar Jar Binks was originally supposed to be a Sith, but was rewritten when he was so unpopular after episode 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yy3q9f84EA

Captain K

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #939 on: December 18, 2015, 08:50:21 AM »
Makes sense, Jar Jar is the ultimate evil.

Cotigo

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #940 on: December 18, 2015, 09:40:32 AM »
You know, I can't say for sure if I would have liked it at the time (I was, what, 13? I no longer understand anything that was going through that fuckwit child's brain) but in hindsight actually going through with that twist would have been pretty great. Unfortunately that would have taken George Lucas to have some balls as a storyteller which has never really been the case.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #941 on: December 18, 2015, 05:21:28 PM »
The actual twist probably wouldn't have hit until you were in your late teens.

I think that it could have been neat, but I don't buy it. Most of the arguments feel to me like they're reaching, and as Zenny notes it assigns Lucas a sort of storytelling chutzpah that we've seen no evidence of otherwise.

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Maybe.

Anthony Edward Stark

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #942 on: December 18, 2015, 06:59:25 PM »
The actual twist probably wouldn't have hit until you were in your late teens.

I think that it could have been neat, but I don't buy it. Most of the arguments feel to me like they're reaching, and as Zenny notes it assigns Lucas a sort of storytelling chutzpah that we've seen no evidence of otherwise.

Lucas doesn't seem to think about concept in ways other than the one he meant it.  That's why when people asked if the prophecy about Anakin was actually equivocation, Macbeth-style, because he killed all but two Jedi, he just said "what?  No.  Why did you think that?" even though it makes the prophecy actually make sense.  This level of manipulation and deception is above the complexity of everything else in the prequels.  It's like if McDonalds started serving gourmet filet mignon dinners, you'd wonder either what shortcuts they had taken or why they didn't put that much effort into the rest of their menu.

AndrewRogue

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #943 on: December 18, 2015, 07:02:52 PM »
I love theories like this and the digging for evidence.

SnowFire

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #944 on: December 18, 2015, 07:35:14 PM »
I saw the original post on Reddit for this awhile back.  It seems the video author didn't link to the original for some reason, so:
https://www.reddit.com/comments/3qvj6w
(I didn't actually watch the video, so apologies if their take is different!). 

Anyway, see Elf; it's a cool thought, and unlike many fan theories isn't actually inconsistent with what we see, but it's still a long ways away from a "decent chance."  The problem is that even taking Episode 1 in isolation, on its own merits, before the fan backlash to Jar-Jar ocurred...  Jar-Jar already fits this Lucasian archetype.  He's the comic relief, kid-friendly outsider whom everyone underestimates but somehow turns out to be a helpful good guy.  Now, the *execution* is awful for Jar-Jar, much worse than C-3P0, but there's no need to layer further plot twists upon this.  There is one argument that could be used...

Unfortunately that would have taken George Lucas to have some balls as a storyteller which has never really been the case.
as Zenny notes it assigns Lucas a sort of storytelling chutzpah that we've seen no evidence of otherwise.

Now this I won't let stand.  Lucas has gigantic brass balls, for good & ill.  Some of the problems in the prequels were surely due to nobody being able to say 'no' to Lucas anymore, probably!  And don't confuse "Lucas is completely ripping off The Hero's Journey and all his favorite films" with lack of courage, Lucas showed some real art to pastiche'ing it up right.  And similarly, Lucas showed some real courage in some of his stranger plot arc decisions in the prequels...  just they didn't actually pan out to quality.  (Let's make the Sith about getting in touch with your feelings!)

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/cover_story/2015/12/star_wars_is_a_pastiche_how_george_lucas_combined_flash_gordon_westerns.html  is a long but decent article, if you're curious.

Going back to the above, there are two famous examples from the original Star Wars of plot twists that spanned movies and retroactively messed with the understanding of the previous film(s)...  a certain revelation about what really happened to Luke's father, and the nature of the friendly relationship between Luke & Leia.  Two twists that the original Star Wars was very clearly made without any reference to or knowledge of.  It's worth remembering how shocking this apparently was Back In The Day - the default assumption after SW1 would have been "hey, male lead & female lead are obviously a couple."  And while the plot twist about Luke's father might be old as dirt - the Greeks were certainly a fan - but damn if Lucas did not pull that twist out perfectly for maximum melodrama, again in a very shocking fashion thanks to the 1 movie + 3 year delay on it.  Star Wars has a bit of the same problem as Lord of the Rings: it was copied so much later that it's hard to see how daring it was at the time (despite working with all re-used components!).

Anyway, is it possible that Jar-Jar was supposed to be a plot bomb that could explode in unexpected ways, like the real history of Anakin Skywalker & Darth Vader?  Maybe.  But making Jar-Jar a villain?  I just don't think that'd fit the intentions.  Jar-Jar was supposed to be the kid-friendly character.  Why pin such a dramatic note on him?  I just listened to the director's commentary on both Star Wars & Empire Strikes Back recently, and it included comments like cutting a scene that showed Han's torture in more detail & had him screaming because they wanted to still have the movie somewhat tolerable to kids - the implication would be just as dark for the adults.  The equivalent from the original trilogy was C-3P0 being revealed to be some kind of murderous killbot.  That would be more "dumb" than "operatic".  You get a one-time shocking twist, but that's it.  Far more likely that Jar-Jar was intended for more zany, underestimated comic relief, and hell, maybe he even would become some kind of secret Jedi.  That's my take, anyway.

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #945 on: December 18, 2015, 07:45:08 PM »
Quote
The equivalent from the original trilogy was C-3P0 being revealed to be some kind of murderous killbot.

Welllll....

(Not actually C-3P0, but obviously intended to invoke exactly the image.)
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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #946 on: December 18, 2015, 08:40:41 PM »

Grefter

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #947 on: December 18, 2015, 09:31:12 PM »
I saw the original post on Reddit for this awhile back.  It seems the video author didn't link to the original for some reason, so:
https://www.reddit.com/comments/3qvj6w
(I didn't actually watch the video, so apologies if their take is different!).

Eh as someone that used to be reeeeeeeeeaaaaaally into this stuff I can tell you the idea predates well past that post.  People have been joking/refining/playing with the idea since Revenge of the Sith where he hands over control of the senate to Palpatine.  Edit - I am also dead certain there is a Cracked thing about it.

It is a fun thought experiment but puts way more deft writing chops than Lucas really exhibits.  Also the narrative here goes that it was planned to happen from the start, but he chickened out in 2 and then still went and put stuff in there for it in the third movie?  This wasn't a Lord of the Rings job.  There was time for rewrites between 2 and 3.  He deliberately had Jar Jar hand over control of the senate and it wasn't because of a plot thread he changed his mind on 5 years earlier.
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AndrewRogue

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #948 on: December 18, 2015, 09:41:46 PM »
Speaking of bad writing.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/12/17/like-an-afternoon-nap-in-gaming-form-devilian/

Fucking wrecked. Game companies should hire real writers.



That quest sample of mine does suck, though. Kinda unfair to take it out of context (nervous, chattery NPC and this is the conclusion of a questline), but still. Kinda wish he'd taken one of Kevin's quests instead of mine as an example.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 11:21:35 PM by AndrewRogue »

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Re: 2015 Miscellaneous Links: Cat pictures go here
« Reply #949 on: December 18, 2015, 10:49:48 PM »
if they hired real writers 98% of the playerbase still wouldn't read the quest text

MMO localization is a strange thing
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