2020 Miscellaneous Links: Untitled Moose Game

[Cotigo]

Yeah I don't mind the action gameplay but episodic is pretty unforgivable. FF13 was in episodes, AFAIK at full price per episode, so I have no illusion we'll be getting each episode for like 20 bucks.

[Fenrir]

FF13 games weren't really episodic. Compared to Telltale stuff, each game was super long and had big paradigm shifts in gameplay (and probably story (I dunno man))

I don't even really think that episodic is a good idea? This seems to ignore that a huge number of people , especially people who got FF7 on release, buy games like this and only play them for a few hours.
Episode 1 will be a huge hit, but excitement will be gone once episode 2 hits. This is not a Telltale game, you do not need to know the rest of the story.

[Shale]

From what they've said it's going to be an ATB action-RPG. Like, you'll wait for a character's bar to fill and then get a given amount of time to slash things up with them, I guess?

(Also, it isn't as if the RPGs coming out with action gameplay now actually have good action gameplay. Leave it to Platinum, guys.)

[Anthony Edward Stark]

The bigger red-flag is that it will be multi-part, for true milking of the player.

I would imagine anyone who is still, somehow, a fan of Final Fantasy in 2015 has learned to take masochistic glee in the act of being milked.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Episodic doesn't bother me for price reasons (I'm in my 30's with a career now; time is the waaaay bigger issue for me than money), but it does feel like a good way to kill the hype/pacing of the series. Yeah, the individual player can always wait for the entire series to being out before playing it but that pisses away the social aspect of playing things nearer release.

I'm also disappointed it's not ATB (or CTB I guess but I was never going to expect that), Square Enix seems allergic to doing turn-based these days and are all super-surprised that it's what people actually still want in many cases (see: them being confused at how big Bravely Default was). SE's ARPG attempts (well, the Square side more accurately) have never really impressed me.

Still more excited for this game than FF15.

[Excal]

Will definitely disagree about FF XIII as being "episodic" in the way Xenosaga was.  Love it or hate it, XIII was at least a complete story, whereas Xenosaga Ep1 ended part way through the story and it wasn't even a huge important arc.  It was just getting from Point A to Point B and explaining some stuff on the way.  You had the same base cast continuing to be important after that.  Whereas Fang and Vanille were done after FF XIII, and most of the rest of the cast should have been done, except then the Etro stuff happened, which is at least a new conflict that's not contained in XIII.

On that note, I am now much more looking forward to FF XV than the VII remake.  The ATB is generally pissing me off more than the episodic news, since I'd love to see a real attempt to make a proper go of the old FF7 combat system.  The FF7 system had huge potential, and a remake is the perfect time to make it better.  Arg.  So, yeah.  Also, with the Crisis Core stuff I know they can keep the old FF sensibilities, but I'm always afraid they won't.  And Cloud in particular is someone they seem to be good at not getting, so I'm kinda worried about that.

Combine that with just being able to play the original, well, I'm dreading the remake as opposed to just incredibly apathetic about XV.  And hey, I was also really apathetic and then disliked XIII a touch before it finally grew on me, and now I'm a fan of XIII, so maybe XV will manage that same trajectory.  There is a touch of hope there.

[Grefter]

Well... Xenosaga was only referred to in the context of the remake maybe going that way, not FF13. 

So like, I can see them pumping them out way too fucking slow, planning to do 7 episodes (BECAUSE ITS FF7 YOU GUYS) then finding out that no one gives a fuck enough to financially support it after the second one because shit takes too goddamned long and they jam the last 4 episodes worth of plot heavily cut down in to 1 game.

Episodic is only bothersome from a price point because I don't trust Squeenix to price it fairly.  They are all over the shop on Mobile (and like... the pricing they use on Dimensions I again think is fair), but this isn't Mobile, this is in the Triple A space.  I paranoid that we are going to get net charged more than usual full price for a game.

Episodic content works currently in different market with the model Telltale Games has championed so successfully and for a few reasons but primary two I can think of is because A) they price point for them is modest for the entire set (Cheaper in a bundle of the lot) and B) their release schedule is consistent and relatively fast.  They do 5 or 6 parts and they are usually all done within 12 months.

I don't see Squeenix doing that or anything close to it.  They will also likely have longer chunks... but the pacing points for said releases is going to be a big deal.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Well, everyone has always said "they'll never do a FF7 remake because they'd only screw it up"... and since the trailers actually looked promising... They had to screw it up SOMEHOW. Might as well go full-pessimism mode now and be pleasantly surprised when the game is even mildly functional when it comes out in four years.

[Grefter]

Well tons of my frustration is that I was saying for years that they COULD do it and didn't understand why they didn't.

Like imagine they took the base mechanics for FF7 and ported it without touching the core game.  Still do 3D models on 2D backdrops, do significantly higher quality 2D backdrops, drop in much higher quality 3D models. 

Never mind that this is literally what the FF5 and 6 ports to iOS /android are, they are released at a nice for what it is, but still expensive on the platform it is on systems.  You could do that and it would have been good money, but Square can't do that because FF7s myth is so much more than that.

[Anthony Edward Stark]

Well tons of my frustration is that I was saying for years that they COULD do it and didn't understand why they didn't.

Like imagine they took the base mechanics for FF7 and ported it without touching the core game.  Still do 3D models on 2D backdrops, do significantly higher quality 2D backdrops, drop in much higher quality 3D models. 

Never mind that this is literally what the FF5 and 6 ports to iOS /android are, they are released at a nice for what it is, but still expensive on the platform it is on systems.  You could do that and it would have been good money, but Square can't do that because FF7s myth is so much more than that.

Well, that and Square's stubborn insistence that they still make AAA console games rather than pulling back to the handheld/digital market where that kind of thing would actually fly.

[Grefter]

2D backgrounds with 3D models.

Commercially successful and didn't have existing assets.

[Dhyerwolf]

I didn't realize that they were somehow breaking the game up into multiple parts. That's a horrible idea for a remake of a game.

I'm reserving judgment on the battle system though. While I'm not particularly happy with it, the way the menu in battle looks makes it seem like it's not at least pure ARPG.

They are stupid because this game sells itself, and it would do better if they tried to still make it appeal to all the people who actually played the original.

[Anthony Edward Stark]

2D backgrounds with 3D models.

Commercially successful and didn't have existing assets.

PoE was also one of those digital market games i was talking about, yeah.  You can do a lot more in the way of non-traditional strategies without having to convince retailers that you are mainstream enough for shelf space.

[Grefter]

Hey its a Sony exclusive, this could be the vanguard of Sony embracing our glorious digital future (and of Square releasing multiple bluray sized parts to a game that you need to download).

[Anthony Edward Stark]

Nah, the main goal of the PS3 was to get blu-ray players to people, no way that Sony's abandoning physical media.

[Captain K]

So, I haven't been talking about Blade and Soul's localization because I don't want everyone's brains to melt.  But I did want to share this rather nice Kotaku article on the perils of localizing.

http://kotaku.com/from-japan-with-changes-the-endless-debate-over-video-1747960323

So basically the Korean MMO Blade and Soul is getting a Woolsleyan localization rather than a word-for-word translation.  This has had people complaining for a couple of months, and then about a month ago both BnS forums exploded with dozens of topics about it.  Pretty sure it was an invasion from an anti-SJW group because it was a large number of new people complaining in a short period of time.

Complicating the issue was the playable beta, where there were mixtures of the new localized text and the word-for-word translated English provided by the devs.

Anyway it's been a clusterfuck, and has just recently started to calm down.  I personally don't mind either style of localization, although I prefer Woolsleyan style because it flows better.

Here's the topic where the lead writer explained many of the changes and the process they go through.  It's got plenty of idiocy in it, but still one of the safest topics I can link to you.  The rest require brain bleach.

https://forums.bladeandsoul.com/forums/index.php?/topic/142780-open-discussion-with-english-localization/page-1

[DjinnAndTonic]

No time to check the links, but can you explain how an "anti-SJW group" has anything to do with Woolseyian vs Literal Translation? Last I checked there's no Social Justice aspect to a translation style? I'm not even sure which side of the debate an 'anti-SJW group' would even normally tend to fall on...

[Fenrir]

Duh

Anti SJW = Gamergate = Anime avatars = removing underage porn is censorship = literal translations

[Captain K]

Sorry I should go into more detail.  There were complaints the whole time about the translation, but the thing that opened the floodgates was the redesign of a sidequest series.

In the original sidequests, you help out a guy who is having erectile dysfunction by obtaining various items to work as cures.  He's a pretty scummy guy, and apparently got his dysfunction from some kind of VD.  Later in the quest chain you help him steal the clothes from some women bathing at a pool.  This leads to him getting married to one of the women because it's their tribal tradition or something.  He doesn't like the woman and says she's ugly but he still knocks her up.

So ten out of ten writers on staff felt uncomfortable with the quests.  Quest chain was pretty dramatically altered.  Now the guy is a scholar studying the tribe, he's not scummy anymore, etc.

So yeah it became SJWs are causing censorship, this is why we can't have the new Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball game in the west, etc. etc.

[Excal]

Also, the one article focuses on the cries of censorship when we didn't get a 13 year old in a skimpy bikini, and the rampant 4chan theories of how one woman at NoA is clearly responsible in part for these insults to frue gamers.

[Anthony Edward Stark]

In the original sidequests, you help out a guy who is having erectile dysfunction by obtaining various items to work as cures.  He's a pretty scummy guy, and apparently got his dysfunction from some kind of VD.  Later in the quest chain you help him steal the clothes from some women bathing at a pool.  This leads to him getting married to one of the women because it's their tribal tradition or something.  He doesn't like the woman and says she's ugly but he still knocks her up.

Jeeeeeesus fucking christ.  Does Korea have any watch lists we can put the original writers on?

[Captain K]

Oh no, if you read all the anti-censorship comments this is a variant of a common Korean folktale about the swan maiden.  Changing it is destroying the cultural integrity of the original!

[NotMiki]

ooc is that actually true?  I've recently been giving some thought to all the crazy antisocial behavior movie characters engage in that we would condemn in real life but don't even notice on screen.  This would be an interesting example of that (that sticks out to us because we don't have the cultural background. Maybe.  Then again maybe it's just super creepy.)

[Meeplelard]

...funny censorship was brought up when this is the latest Smash Bros. DLC character:

HOLY CRAP THIS IS TOTAL MEEPLE BAIT SAKURAI!!!!

...yeah, I think they found a way to one up Cloud.  Also, this happened beforehand; not as exciting but still kind of cool:

Roy still needs to die.

[Anthony Edward Stark]

Oh no, if you read all the anti-censorship comments this is a variant of a common Korean folktale about the swan maiden.  Changing it is destroying the cultural integrity of the original!

So what they're saying is that Korean culture is to blame and that we should put a giant ankle monitoring bracelet on the entire Korean Peninsula?