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Author Topic: 2020 Miscellaneous Links: Untitled Moose Game  (Read 171122 times)

SnowFire

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Re: 2019 Miscellaneous Links: Here is a graveyard of you!
« Reply #1725 on: February 13, 2019, 06:18:04 AM »
Various stories around the web for the 20th anniversary of FF8 - well, the JP release at least - but I thought this one was pretty interesting:

https://legendsoflocalization.com/squalls-whatever-line-in-japanese-final-fantasy-viii/

Cmdr_King

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Re: 2019 Miscellaneous Links: Here is a graveyard of you!
« Reply #1726 on: March 17, 2019, 04:07:43 PM »
So fleshing out Fire Emblem thoughts ended up at about 2500 words: https://medium.com/@cmdrking/yer-a-girl-corrin-fire-emblem-fates-and-feminism-e4361fb62bb
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: 2019 Miscellaneous Links: Here is a graveyard of you!
« Reply #1727 on: March 18, 2019, 01:34:06 AM »
A good read. I agree with many of the broad strokes despite having a reasonably positive view of Fates' story (not perfect by any means, but manages to be above average by Fire Emblem's admittedly low standards for me). The places where I probably disagree most are the idea that it glamourizes masculine strength and that it sees compassion as weakness.


First off, though, I want to touch on Corrin's gender. I definitely understand why you feel Corrin scans as a female; my initial inclination is to agree. Or rather, her traits are more often associated with female characters in fiction... and indeed, are notably more popular, or perhaps I should say tolerated, in female characters than in male. I dunno if you pay any attention to Fire Emblem character polls, but unlike Kris and Robin, Corrin is significantly more popular as a woman than a man, despite the fact that all three are advertised primarily as male (and Three Houses seems to be making that 4/4, sadly). I've seen some people try to chalk this up to design, but I think the bigger reason is just that Corrin is fundamentally weak at points (one of his/her iconic quotes is "I am so sorry" stated when something bad happens that he/she was unable to prevent) and that many players tolerate this more in their female heroes (e.g. Eirika) than they do in their male (male Corrin reminds me of Hope Estheim in some ways, a character with an even larger hate-base). Not to say the primarily childish male internet particularly loves even female characters with these traits, but that's an aside.

I have a mixed opinion about Corrin personally; I think they try some interesting things with her but aren't willing to commit to some of the criticisms they have because she on some level represents the player and the player is Always Right. And unlike her siblings she's really boring on every non-Conquest route.


Anyway, my critiques:

I don't think I agree with the notion that the game particularly glamourizes stereotypically masculine strength... in fact, I think it's closer to the opposite. Who stands for masculine strength in the game? Nohr in general, and certain seriously flawed characters in particular, namely:

-Garon and Hans, who use their strength as a tool to bully, conquer, and inflict suffering on others. Fine, they're villains, but it must be emphasised how much they stand for this ideal.
-Xander, who uses his strong convictions to stand by his father and his kingdom and willfully blind himself to all the horrible things it does. He threatens murder to his siblings on multiple occasions across the routes and does in fact end up killing one of them. He is a tragic character; his "strength" (in his case, his unwavering loyalty and convictions) is also his undoing.
-Camilla, whose strength proves a poor shield against her mental breakdown in Birthright as it is unable to help her do what she desires to do most.

Leo and Elise alone among the major Nohrians do not stand for strength in the same way, and this rather directly allows them to work towards smoothing over a more peaceful end to the story.


I also don't think the game is against compassion; in fact, Corrin's compassion helps draw others to her and indeed save her on a few occasions where her wits fail her (see Kaze in Conquest for an obvious payoff, or Ryoma's sacrifice). And even more than Corrin, the Fates character who stands for compassion and kindness is Elise, who may also be the most unambiguously positively portrayed character in the game (though, due to Fates' partially tragic nature, it doesn't always end well for her).

To the extent that Conquest criticises Corrin (and it definitely does, while trying to tapdance around the fact at points!), it is critical of her weakness and selfishness; the game is fundamentally a story about someone who puts maintaining her relationships with those she loves above the greater good, and manages to obtain a happy ending for her own personal goals but is tainted by the blood of thousands of innocents. The bad things that happen in Conquest happen because she isn't able to stand up to or disappoint her family in any way (including Garon right up to the moment where Azura reveals he isn't meaningfully her "family" any more), not because she's too nice and wants to spare her enemies.

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SnowFire

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Re: 2019 Miscellaneous Links: Here is a graveyard of you!
« Reply #1728 on: March 18, 2019, 10:29:15 PM »
Hmm.  Interesting read, but I don't really buy the plot of Conquest as being a treatise on the limits/futility of compassion.  It might have turned out that way for you, of course, but I don't think that was even close to the intent.  The thing about video game writing is that it's closer to, say, television shows with multiple episodes, or a comic book series that bounces from author to author; there are multiple writers, and even when they're all good they sometimes want to go in different directions.  And sometimes some of the writers are bad and write in plot elements that, if taken seriously, suggest themes that radically go against everything that was the intent, but everybody conveniently forgets about this, which is probably for the best.  So while I entirely agree there are all sorts of elements in Conquest that *could* be taken this way if written by a singular author with a strong vision - the Yoko Taro or Toby Fox version of FE Fates, basically - it isn't here, any more than the guy who wrote the Mass Effect 3 ending intended all of the horrible consequences of that if you bother to think about it for more than 30 seconds.  Why did the 7-year old spill the milk?  Because they made a mistake, it's no deeper than that.

Also, I know you didn't play it (yet?), but for all that its plot is crap, Fates Revelation very strongly smells like being the "canon" path of Fates: everybody makes friends and joins Corrin in a super team-up against the bad guys, fight zombies, get the ultimate super sword, and defeat the Real Big Bad.  Certainly Corrin's qualities are unambiguously good here: his or her charisma, insight, and compassion save the day with only a few named good-side casualties, so I'm not inclined to think these are supposed to be weaknesses elsewhere.

I suppose I should give my take on Conquest - bearing in mind that I didn't like its plot and dislike it for its writing incompetence:

* We aren't supposed to think too hard about the Hoshidan casualties at all, or how the war was going elsewhere, or anything like that.  Whenever Garon or Iago orders slaughters of Chevois prisoners or Hoshidan armies, that is strictly there to develop Garon/Hans/Iago characters and prove how evil they are, just as Corrin miraculously sparing all their foes is there to prove how awesome Corrin is.  The story never takes a remote interest in looping back and seeing how others reacted to such deaths, or political fallout, or anything.  The game cares about the likes of Ryoma dying, or (as Elf pointed out) Corrin being nice causing people like Kaze to join up or Flora to decide to go along with Corrin despite her original service being an act, but those are named characters.  Mooks don't matter.  So don't include them in the moral calculus of Conquest; people who don't matter dying is not considered a drawback by the writer.

* Even on the Conquest route, Corrin's compassion is unambiguously a good thing, and not a weakness.  That compassion saves Hinoka & Sakura's lives; even ghost Takumi likes Corrin and encourages them to kill zombie Takumi.  More generally, if we zoom out a bunch, Corrin is the hero and thus indirectly all their qualities become positive by dint of association with Corrin.  I.e. if you make a story where a clever trickster saves the day, you're inherently praising these qualities a bit.

* So if not foolish compassion, why do the terrible things on Conquest route happen at all?  Well, I don't think any of it is tied to Corrin, at least in the author(s) head; I disagree with Elf on this that Conquest really criticizes Corrin at all.  There's a constant march of stupid justifications for why Corrin isn't "really" at fault for 95% of the bad things that happen in Conquest, usually by having somebody else do the dirty deed that Garon demands or for Ryoma / Rainbow Sage / etc. to commit suicide, as if that somehow matters.  While I or anybody who's taken Ethics 101 shouldn't really buy this crap - look, your honor, somebody ELSE in my criminal enterprise pulled the trigger on the gun - I think the writers did.  What they want us to take from this is A) Garon/Iago/Hans is bad, B) Corrin's best hope to mitigate the damage while staying on Nohr's side is "win faster" as you put it (no matter how stupid this idea is), C) Corrin can't quit because they love their family but also because the player clicked the "side with Nohr" option at the beginning so they're just gonna keep going along rather than defect or quit in disgust or anything.

* Additionally, sheerly by dint of having two paths where your allies in one path are your enemies in the other path, FE Fates promotes a bit more understanding for at least some of your enemies (not quite the same as compassion, but close).  While Fates doesn't give a shit about its unnamed soldiers, it does for its named characters, so you know that at least some of the people you're fighting and beating up have names, friends, histories, etc., which leads to sympathy.

As for the other aspect of your article, the value of (masculine?) strength..  it's there, but in the sense that almost all conflict-oriented games have this inherently a bit by tending to have there be a Big Bad who requires force to take down.  (I can think of exactly one strategy RPG that inherently criticizes this a bit.)  So not inclined to take too big of a note of it.

Cmdr_King

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Re: 2019 Miscellaneous Links: Here is a graveyard of you!
« Reply #1729 on: March 18, 2019, 11:47:35 PM »
Elf- Mm, Corrin's flaw as selfishness (in the sense of being unwilling to give up sacrifice *anything* to achieve her goals) is a pretty good catch.  I tend to think of compassion in a way where there aren't acceptable losses, but considering one of her other key traits is being naive the accompanying selfishness with that as part of the explanation is definitely something to keep in mind, agreed.

I did think of Ryoma's sacrifice as the 'payoff' in Conquest, but a lot of Ryoma's character is built around that impossible nobility ideal who wouldn't let his sister die for him I felt?  Part of that interpretation of his character though IS based on the fact that he sacrifices himself via seppuku, which... scans as very "honorable man" behavior and kinda feeds into the masculinity idealization, I guess.  But yeah I considered talking about that bit but felt like I didn't really want to go too far down the rabbit hole of analyzing 'honorable' suicide in this context.

Snowfire- I love me some intentionality analysis but that's just not the one I was using for this article!

I am however curious about something, so.. To the Internet!

Quote
Story Supervisor
Kouhei Maeda

Original Story
Shin Kibayashi

Main Scenario Birthright and Conquest Paths
Nami Komuro

Character Planning & Voice Text
Nami Komuro

Scenario
Kouhei Maeda
Masayuki Horikawa
Satoko Kurihara
Naoya Inui

Kibayashi would be the guy who wrote the original pitch (I believe on commission), so we'll remove him from consideration.

So based on this, we can surmise that one writer plotted out the character arcs and how they played into the main story paths, while the lead writer worked on the individual chapters along with three others writers.  So while yeah, games do have more divided writing duties than other single-story mediums, Fates at least did have a story lead who was also working on the individual chapters and coordinating the overall plot.  And even if there wasn't, that's what directors and producers do!  So yeah, while obviously this might explain some of the repetition from chapter to chapter and why there might be a disconnect in characterization between some of the main plot and the supports... I think it's reasonable to surmise that the game WOULD have planned central themes, not just accidents.  I mean, it is likely to end up somewhat episodic but it's not episodic in the way, say, Dragon Quest is.

Not that this is a refutation of your overall points necessarily, but I thought it was interesting enough to look up.
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SnowFire

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Re: 2019 Miscellaneous Links: Here is a graveyard of you!
« Reply #1730 on: March 19, 2019, 12:20:10 AM »
Yupyup.  Really Fates is *only* analyzable at the over-arching themes level since the writing for any one scenario is erratic and not necessarily indicative of what's up.  The one that succeeds the most IMO is the Corrin vs. one set of siblings melodrama which most everybody agrees is the best part to both Birthright & Conquest.  Very operatic, where Corrin has to take on the noble enemy generals who like them, or is the noble enemy general themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LCQ3N4a4fg

Cmdr_King

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<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

Cmdr_King

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Re: 2019 Miscellaneous Links: Here is a graveyard of you!
« Reply #1732 on: May 06, 2019, 05:39:33 PM »
I've managed to talk about Kingdom Hearts and Xenogears at the same time.  NO one is safe: https://medium.com/@cmdrking/des-larmes-pour-la-bonheur-de-xion-stars-of-fears-9cea02d071ef
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<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

Captain K

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Re: 2019 Miscellaneous Links: Here is a graveyard of you!
« Reply #1733 on: May 08, 2019, 12:58:26 AM »
My trans kid really liked your article.

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: 2019 Miscellaneous Links: Here is a graveyard of you!
« Reply #1734 on: May 15, 2019, 01:23:20 AM »
https://www.gofundme.com/support-khoury one of my friends is doing top surgery and is raising money for recovery. he is a humanitarian and generally decent human being but due to doing so much volunteer work he doesn't have the money to cover secondary expenses.
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Re: 2019 Miscellaneous Links: Here is a graveyard of you!
« Reply #1735 on: September 10, 2019, 10:13:16 PM »
Woooo finally!  Something else done and published!   Perhaps the next one won't take 4 months!

https://medium.com/@cmdrking/octopath-traveler-a-21st-century-jrpg-for-21st-century-problems-e3fadebc5d6f
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<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: 2019 Miscellaneous Links: Here is a graveyard of you!
« Reply #1736 on: September 11, 2019, 02:21:15 AM »
Nice! Don't have much to add but I very much enjoyed reading that.

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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: 2019 Miscellaneous Links: Here is a graveyard of you!
« Reply #1737 on: September 26, 2019, 01:27:46 AM »
CONTENT WARNING: suicide ideation

https://acain882.wixsite.com/magic/blog/the-mirror-reflecting-death-content-warning-suicide-ideation

I wrote blog post about my experiences, with Three Houses as a spring board for my thoughts. <3 Thanks for all of the love I have gotten from the people who have already read it.
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<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

SnowFire

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Re: 2019 Miscellaneous Links: Here is a graveyard of you!
« Reply #1740 on: December 02, 2019, 02:37:00 AM »
Came up in Discord, but...
https://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-vi/

Is a very fascinating, multi-part review of the FF6 JP script, the original SNES translation, the early fan translation, the GBA translation, and Google Translate hacking at the script.  Some very cool stuff, get your FF6 nostalgia goggles on.

Cmdr_King

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<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

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Re: 2020 Miscellaneous Links: Untitled Moose Game
« Reply #1742 on: February 06, 2020, 07:14:42 AM »
So there's a melee documentary about Hungrybox that is pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmLSJrA0n9w


dunie

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Re: 2020 Miscellaneous Links: Untitled Moose Game
« Reply #1744 on: April 29, 2020, 10:17:26 PM »
The New Yorker's got some footage of Atlanta:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPM1WfYMNSg&feature=youtu.be

re: Kemp cutting shelter-in-place short.

I WILL say, though, that it seems more people are out and going places than the video shows since I don't see most of my neighbors at home these days

superaielman

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Re: 2020 Miscellaneous Links: Untitled Moose Game
« Reply #1745 on: May 11, 2020, 10:25:44 AM »
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/may/09/the-real-lord-of-the-flies-what-happened-when-six-boys-were-shipwrecked-for-15-months?utm_source=pocket-newtab Found this to be pretty interesting; real life lord of the flies situation with a happier ending than the book.
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Cmdr_King

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Re: 2020 Miscellaneous Links: Untitled Moose Game
« Reply #1746 on: June 30, 2020, 12:06:01 AM »
“Retrospective” doesn’t quite capture what this is, but a piece on Lost Odyssey, digging both into its background and founding concept as well as the themes and successes and failures thereof
https://youtu.be/LbjwXh5Th6I
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<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

Cmdr_King

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Cmdr_King

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Re: 2020 Miscellaneous Links: Untitled Moose Game
« Reply #1748 on: December 19, 2020, 04:50:29 PM »
I'm not sure if this is any good but I had most of it written and needed to finish it.

https://cmdrking.medium.com/the-needful-many-wild-arms-2-and-sacrifice-cb2ab764471a
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<NotMiki> I mean, we're talking life vs. liberty, with the pursuit of happiness providing color commentary.

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Re: 2020 Miscellaneous Links: Untitled Moose Game
« Reply #1749 on: March 14, 2022, 09:43:26 PM »
A pretty interesting set of charts on COVID vaccine attitudes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv0dQfRRrEQ